Have You Noticed.

[wraggster]

On visiting many PSP sites i keep noticing some ads that really do harm to the Homebrew Scene and worst of all most sites will struggle to do anything against them, the ads in question are those ones that offer PSP Download Services or Guides to Downgrading or even an App that has Emulators with Roms in.

It seems that Google being the almighty power it is cant control the advertisers that use its service, the amount of Rom ads and especially those PSP Download Services ads (although some lesser sites actually have those ads direct and not via Google.) do major harm to the PSP Scene, if they are allowing downloading of ISOs and Movies etc then they deserve to be shut down. If they are enticing you to pay for homebrew then you are being ripped off majorly. Any site that openly supports these paying serviices might as well be a warez site.

Isnt it about time Google sorted their act out

[Sumo X]

I see these ads all the time- just last night I was clicking an add on Fanjitas site and it kicked me to one of those places. I don't know how or why Google allows them to advertise through their service when downloading roms in general is questionable and ISOs are pretty cut and dry.

[babu]

I don't understand how advertisement can really harm the psp homebrew scene. Any n00b with a computer access can find pirated material, most of them i'am sure don't even click the advertisement, they just go on google and search for the stuff they want. Selling of warez is bad and definetely should be shut down. But i don't think sites that don't host anything but only provide a medium for other's to share(p2p) can/could be shut down, besides when you got countries like france who have legalized p2p then who are we to impose are laws or moral values on others. Each individual know the risk of getting involved in piracy therefore the decision should be left to them.

besides iso have plagued psx, xbox, pc, I don't see the respective scene dying. In psp sony has just come up with a genious way to stop the problem at the kernel. No pun intended :D

[MikeDX]

Whilst I am not trying to cause a riot, but didn't you call a truce not long ago - or is this purely a case for the morality police.

[wraggster]

its not aimed at PSPupdates, i know sites need to have ads to pay the bandwidth, but google dont need the money that badly

[nexus68]

France has not legalized p2p lol On the contrary the new law will be repressive.

[psychadelicious]

Google can't do anything about this crap, these sites with their webspace providers pay to have whatver they have on there site searchable using google and other search engines. Its like if searched "ass" on google and it came up with a donkey, i could say "hey google needs to get their act together because i should only be seeing pornography on the screen!!!"

[Tobiatch]

reminds me of the conclusion / ending of "Lord of War"

[Darksaviour69]

you can report such links to google and they do remove them after a week or 2, from their service.

martin (our host) blocks many "bad" google ads from the site

[Illegal Machine]

I don't really object to the download and use of ISOs and I'll tell you why.


There are a lot of games I would not or could not have purchased, that I can now play because of the ISO loaders games like:

Star Soldier, Bleach, Bleach 2, Guilty GearXX, and others. Now if sony had thier way, I would never even know about these games, let alone have access, or regional access to them even if I could get one. NOT TO MENTION all the games I might have purchased, HATED once I got them home, and then been pissed of that I paid 50 bucks for afterward.

Now, I'll admit, I haven't purchased ANY UMDs after I got my loaders running, and a good collection of isos HOWEVER, I did buy 4, I ripped them, then returned them to electronics boutique, who then sold them at a profit again. So, the way I see it, EB got to profit off of 8 UMD sales, sony took home $$ from 4. this is in addition to the costs of the 2gig and 1 gig memory cards I bought. So please don't cry about how sony is losing money because of piracy, because theyre clearly doing well.

Anyone who has a 1.5 and a 1 or 2 gig card is missing out if they're not taking full advantage of Devhook, Fastloader, and UMDemulator 0.8c. Whether its to play your own legaly made ISOs or ones you downloaded off of a friend, or over the internet or whatever.

Now if someone is trying to charge money for that which should be free... well go to the store and look at a bottle of water and tell me what you think of that. BUYER BEWARE comes to mind somehow.. I'd charge someone 10 bucks to downgrade thier PSP. Just like some jerk would charge me a few hundred bucks to do work on my car. this is a service economy. if you have a friend thats willing to do it for free... DON'T pay. if you feel like paying, don't blame the guy charging. these users don't have to pay for anything. they choose to.


and those of you considering "telling" on others for what they're up to, DON'T.

it's none of your business. Go join the police force and stop real crimes of you're SOOO concerned about someones safety, because I assure you the stockholders and corporate officers over at Sony wouldn't even piss on your head if it was on fire.

K thanks

[michael jackson]

"Now if someone is trying to charge money for that which should be free... "

truly disgusting, psp umd emulation is illegal for a reason, it shouldnt be free you worthless waste of mass

i think you would be amazed at how much time and effort is put into making a game, just paying the employees for the 1-4 years it takes (varying by game rpgs can take up to 4 1/2 years to complete) costs millions to companies

though i wouldnt waste the time explaining to someone with such little brain activity as you


the reason things cost money is because retards like you will abuse them, its been proven and beaten with a stick since history began

if sony just let iso's go w/o firmware updates we would never play games

its amazing how stupid your logic is, you bought a few umds... BIG WHOOP for every one person who buys, 3 download for free

all i can say is, if supporters of piracy are so sure its ok, then you can make your own games, shoot your own movies and play your own music,

i would love to see how fast you change your mind if media suddenly stopped

look at the big picture, not $40 or $20 on a few umds.. i'm talking 100's of millions of dollars monthly lost to piracy, and even though very few if any, bands or companies have died from piracy, if left alone it will spread expedintially like a plague completely destroying all entertainment

i hate to post such a huge reply but this bullcrap thinking is why the future looks bleak for anyone who plans on designing games as a profession

... me

[Cap'n 1time]

I don't really object to the download and use of ISOs and I'll tell you why.
blah blah blah

K thanks

im so sick of you know it all kids. its against the law in most places in the world and its against the laws of our forum. if you got nothing usefull to say then dont say it. Its also unethical... and not everyone is a selfish white boy who slaps a "Z" on everything computer related. Also if it wasnt hurting anyone why do you think the companies would take so many actions to try to prevent it.. do you think they just enjoy spending money to up their firmware so that Little Steurt PeePee cant play lumines meanwhile snickering "im a gangsta cause i stole this video game."?

If you dont like our rules then make your own forum. Start your wonderful warez site on geocities with the rest of the "HACKAZ" or whatever the hell you kids say.

[babu]

1timeuser, I didn't expect such behaviour from a moderator, you had no right to post Illigal_machine IP and host. he has only posted what he think, he hasn't advertised any site nor has he told anyone where to get anything from. So posting his ip was uncalled for even if it was for only 3 minutes. Bisides what the point of having a discussion if you threaten to ban anyone who doesn't agree with your point of a view :(

Now back to the piracy issue, something i don't understand ppl who are against iso tend not be against roms(old school stuff). Why is this allowed, doesn't that hurt the developer of the respective consoles :S even anti-iso man(fanjita) himself got snes running on 2.0+. piracy is piracy UNDERSTAND THAT POINT.

Ppl are under the impression that iso's are soley to blame for sony taking strict action such has new firmware, again if this was the case then why has 2.01, 2.5 and 2.6 firmware been released by sony, since it's clearly know that iso can only run on 1.5 for the moment. why didn't sony just stop development at 2.5 :confused:, IDK maybe it could have something to do with some homebrew like snes that are running roms(ILLEGAL again)

Another thing that i don't understand is why sites that are so against iso/roms, usually tend to carry the tools to run them, why not restrict ordinary user access to tool such as neogeocdz, snez emulator since it's clearly know that these tools will be used to operate ILLIGAL ROMS :(

[Cap'n 1time]

Sorry to machine for the ip post. Im sure no one saw it.
No posts to ROMs, ISOs or any other illegal material. while loaders are not illegal it is against site policy to even mention them. Im sure plenty of people have answeres for the above post so il let them answere them. If you have problems with anything take it up with wraggster but Im just here to make sure you obey the laws of the forum.

The law = no iso/umd loaders, no warez of any kind meaning no commercial Rom or ISO links

[Sumo X]

Since 1timeuser edited his post, I find no need to chide him over certain issues.

Just remember people- it's site policy to not talk about those things. You're free to leave if you don't like it- I certainly enjoy the community here.

[Kaiser]

1timeuser, I didn't expect such behaviour from a moderator, you had no right to post Illigal_machine IP and host. he has only posted what he think, he hasn't advertised any site nor has he told anyone where to get anything from. So posting his ip was uncalled for even if it was for only 3 minutes. Bisides what the point of having a discussion if you threaten to ban anyone who doesn't agree with your point of a view :(

Yeah posting the IP was a litle far. No need to humiliate him 1time. We all know he was arguing with flawed logic.


Now back to the piracy issue, something i don't understand ppl who are against iso tend not be against roms(old school stuff). Why is this allowed, doesn't that hurt the developer of the respective consoles

No I'm pretty sure playing genesis games on my PSP doesn't hurt Sony. Nor does it hurt Sega, they're old games. The policy is to make homebrew that does not hurt the system your creating for. PSP ISO's hurt the console because those games are currently for sale.


Ppl are under the impression that iso's are soley to blame for sony taking strict action such has new firmware, again if this was the case then why has 2.01, 2.5 and 2.6 firmware been released by sony, since it's clearly know that iso can only run on 1.5 for the moment. why didn't sony just stop development at 2.5 :confused:, IDK maybe it could have something to do with some homebrew like snes that are running roms(ILLEGAL again)

Okay, But I'm sure ISO's are Sony's major concern. Though I don't doubt they dislike the emulators it isn't a big enough concern to release firmware soley for either.


Another thing that i don't understand is why sites that are so against iso/roms, usually tend to carry the tools to run them, why not restrict ordinary user access to tool such as neogeocdz, snez emulator since it's clearly know that these tools will be used to operate ILLIGAL ROMS :(

Read through this (http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=14830) thread for that argument. Its a never ending one ;)


Sorry to machine for the ip post. Im sure no one saw it.
No posts to ROMs, ISOs or any other illegal material. while loaders are not illegal it is against site policy to even mention them. Im sure plenty of people have answeres for the above post so il let them answere them. If you have problems with anything take it up with wraggster but Im just here to make sure you obey the laws of the forum.

The law = no iso/umd loaders, no warez of any kind meaning no commercial Rom or ISO links

Glad you edited that comment 1time :) , Lets hope no one saw what it said originally. Hippies and all.

[babu]

I feel like beating a dead hourse continuing this discussion, but it's reading week and all my homework is done and now i'am bored so why not, hehe, so plz bare with me :D. Also i like this site that the only reason why i signed-up, the news posted here tends to be first among alot of psp-news sites, ok enough of free publicity, :p




No I'm pretty sure playing genesis games on my PSP doesn't hurt Sony. Nor does it hurt Sega, they're old games. The policy is to make homebrew that does not hurt the system your creating for. PSP ISO's hurt the console because those games are currently for sale.


it may be true that non of the developers are affected, but places like that eb games that still sell old school cartiages( making profits of them to ), will suffer, these ppl should be considered in the equation aswell. Now without any hard fact it's hard to say how much Sony suffer from iso. For instances take xbox/ps2 console every game is avaliable in ISO format, but both console are still doing strong business. Look at pc game industry, every game that gets released is hacked and avaliable for the general public, but developers still stay in the pc business. Now since this is a capitalism they must be having profits otherwise why not stop developing games for these systems.




Okay, But I'm sure ISO's are Sony's major concern. Though I don't doubt they dislike the emulators it isn't a big enough concern to release firmware soley for either.


So basically sony dislikes ISO+roms+other hombrew, not ISO only :p

I ain't that bored to go through all the 6 pages, but i understand the meat of the discussion, kaiser :D

EDIT1
Read that topic a little more and ur right keiser, ISO topic have been talked to death :eek:

[Cap'n 1time]

damnit this was so much more fun when i wasnt a mod. Thanks to DS for helping me keep my cool. As you said babu this has been discussed to the point of causing suicidal thoughts.. so you see why it gets damn touchy around here when another random person brings it up. You know they say that in hell you keep dieing and coming back to life? well hell < ISO and piracy discussion around here.

Anyway I view the pspupdates forum as more of the help and gossip for all (i think they are just a little bit more patient then us XD )... Here we really cant stand the same topics and what kaiser calls "flawed logic".

Also please note this. I DONT HAVE BAN RIGHTS AND I DONT WANT THEM! I dont enjoy yacking at people, and im really not abusive with my "powers". I'm actually about to see if its possible to get rid of my ability to view IP addies so i wont be tempted to do that again. I am, however, working on a way to upload physical actions so that I might be able to virtually bitch slap anyone who causes problems... so keep that in mind.

[Illegal Machine]

wow, nice..

I have an opinion, You don't like it, then you go and post WHAT about me?


Youre such a wonderful human being.


really classy. YOU deserve such treatment.




And you know what? Id give a damn about one of your opinions if it didnt consist of "you're so stupid blah blah blah...."


I could see you getting bent out of shape if you owned sony. or maybe even if you worked for them. but I have a hard time feeling bad for a mulitmillion dollar conglomerate that wants to corner the market on every format by making thier own custom Universal media disc, or whatever that doesnt fit in anything in the universe except a PSP, and wont allow you to write on it?


sorry charlie, but I had enough of that nonsense with CDs. and you can be like WHAAA WHAAAA Eminem isnt making enough money, or Sony isnt making enough money blah blah blah and that translates into higher costs for us blah blah blah...

whtever.


its not like YOU are losing money, its not like YOU have to reprogram the firmware, its not like YOU have to do anything except sit there and have an opinion. and you're entitled to it, but if you want to say MY logic is flawed? consider the FACT that you're defending a meme that doesnt care about YOU, doesnt think about YOU, and never even sees YOU as anything other than a potential dollar sign.


then you're gonna come on here and cry that I'M not living up to my potential as a sony consumer? you're sick in the head. you need to look in the mirror and realize that ANY entitity that makes all of its decisions based on personal gain, and has NO regard for others in that endeavor is a sociopath, and does not deserve your respect, nor defense.


and you DARE insinuate that Im some kind of kid? Who are YOU, interpol? are you the Wyatt Earp of the internet? there to shut down any lawbreakers and defend the profits of the Sony Corporation? NO you arent. you're just some consumer, that was told that you arent allowed to do something, and you believed it. well have fun with that.

[Kaiser]

Okay first this is for babu, the more reasonable and rational one.


So basically sony dislikes ISO+roms+other hombrew, not ISO only

Sony dis-likes emulators becuase of the legal issues surrounding roms. Sony like homebrew games and is the single most supportive mainstream company of it (e.g PS3 linux).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I said in the many other discussions of this matter.....

Roms- Though we won't discuss it, pretty much everyone here downloads roms. I'm not talking about freeware ones. The legality is solid. We are all breaking the law. But this is our own problem and as long as we don't discuss them we are all fine at dcemu. Dcemu's policy about this is everyone does it, just don't discuss it. I mean its easy to justify old NES or Genesis roms because it is hard to find a working cartridge of games such as Sonic The Hedgehog or The Legend of Zelda. That is an unspoken agreement within the dcemu community. Its okay just don't talk about it here.

ISOs- ISO's and in fact any discussion of attaining these files is banned completely. It has no unspoken agreement on dcemu. Simply put, whether attaining these ISOs through legal means or otherwise discussion is not allowed. The discussion of ISO's for any system that is currently being supported (e.g; PSP, PS2 and/or Xbox) is not only banned but discouraged. Meaning not only can you not talk about it but you are encouraged not to do it!

What it comes down to
-Downloading Old Roms do not harm current systems or companies. Ebgames does not rely on those carts. They're simply clearing stock. There more for the retro gamer who wants to own the original version.

-Downloading ISO's for current systems will harm that console. The industry does suffers significant amounts of money from piracy. Only lately is it starting to get back under control. The PC market was overwhelmed with piracy back in the late 90's. Just ask anyone.

Example: The majority of people playing Diablo on b.net back in the late 90s had a pirated copy.







I could see you getting bent out of shape if you owned sony. or maybe even if you worked for them. but I have a hard time feeling bad for a mulitmillion dollar conglomerate that wants to corner the market on every format by making thier own custom Universal media disc, or whatever that doesnt fit in anything in the universe except a PSP, and wont allow you to write on it? sorry charlie, but I had enough of that nonsense with CDs. and you can be like WHAAA WHAAAA Eminem isnt making enough money, or Sony isnt making enough money blah blah blah and that translates into higher costs for us blah blah blah...

You realize not everyone in a company is some sick puppy-killing corporate whore. Regular people on the bottom ranks suffer to. They need money to live. With your "logic" I should be able go over to your house and steal your PSP, because you have enough money already.





its not like YOU are losing money, its not like YOU have to reprogram the firmware, its not like YOU have to do anything except sit there and have an opinion. and you're entitled to it, but if you want to say MY logic is flawed? consider the FACT that you're defending a meme that doesnt care about YOU, doesnt think about YOU, and never even sees YOU as anything other than a potential dollar sign.

Enough with the "evil corporation" shit. Why the hell do you bash a company because THEY made something that they don't want to run stolen games. You don't know what your talking about. Stealing is okay because they have enough money already? Your a bloody anarchist for damn sake.



then you're gonna come on here and cry that I'M not living up to my potential as a sony consumer? you're sick in the head. you need to look in the mirror and realize that ANY entitity that makes all of its decisions based on personal gain, and has NO regard for others in that endeavor is a sociopath, and does not deserve your respect, nor defense.
and you DARE insinuate that Im some kind of kid? Who are YOU, interpol? are you the Wyatt Earp of the internet? there to shut down any lawbreakers and defend the profits of the Sony Corporation? NO you arent. you're just some consumer, that was told that you arent allowed to do something, and you believed it. well have fun with that.

No Sony is a business. A business should have the ability to amke money off there own hard work. Its called capitalism. Yes everyone is just some consumer, a consumer who has the ability to spend money on what ever you want. If you hate Sony so much why are you supporting them by buying there product? No need to be so self-rightous Illegal Machine. But you are right about one thing, it is your opinion.

"I disagree with what you have to say but will fight to the death to protect your right to say it."-Voltaire

[michael jackson]

i doubt what he is has a name, to me its obvious, hes a retard, hes to dumb to see this point

illegaalmachine, pirate games and YOU can make then YU can program your psp and YOU can make any damn format disc you want because YOU will produce them with YOUR money, then YOU can not bitch about piracy

walk a mile in another mans shoes

also, these multimillion dollar conglomarites also pay their millions of employees a salary, and spend multimillions of dollars on each game you steal

i really wish illegal could get a look at what would happen if everyone started pirating and noone stops this... like scrooge

believe it or not we wouldnt have games or movies at all, would you waste money on something everyone will just download?


as for roms of older systems, i feel its ok to play games noone cares to remaster because if its not on anything past ps1/n64 noones making money off it

tell me a way to play translated star ocean for super famicom?....

other than megamanx collection most of my fav snes games arent ported (starfox bubsy kirby3 etc etc) and if noone plans to remaster them on gameboy or w/e i cant buy em

edit: also the ONLY way for anyone to play the lost treasure called starfox 2 is via hacked rom.... truly greAt game but it was scrapped at 98% because it wouldnt make money once n64 released perfectly legal since it never saw shelves...

[Illegal Machine]

Dude you got it all wrong.


Its not that you have the right to come over to my house and steal because I have enough money.


its that WE aren't the internet police. computer software may have seen a lot of piracy in the 90's but computers are still here arent they? What about tapes? What about mp3's theres lots of "piracy" going on everywhere, all the time, neither you, I, nor any site can extract that from the human psyche.

Sony made a damn good product, but they make these so called walls around this and that which YOU purchased with YOUR hard earned money. as far as I'm concerned its yours. and neither sony nor anyone else has the right to tell you otherwise. I'm no anarchist, but there's a certain amount of lawlessness going on here on the internet, and if anyone thinks they're doing themselves a service by cutting themselves out of it theyre wrong. I love sony, I probably bought more sony crap than anyone on this site, but Ive seen them try again and again and again to make a product that's "special" and in the end just wastes your money. Havent you ever noticed how similar UMDs are to Minidiscs? and how minidiscs are no longer around at all? wel lits because the companies are sitting around trying to figure out how to keep you from copying thier material. give me a break. they lose money on these things all the time Betamax for example.




I mean are you on the honor system? if so, then please try not to be so hypocritical and say this is ok, and that isn't. no one has to follow your or anyone elses values, so keep that in mind when you construct your arguments. I have an opinion, which consists of this.


if theres a percentage of people who want to pirate software, however large that may be, its thier right to do so. sony can try to stop them, but as you have seen time and again people are jutst going to copy things. it happens over and over and over there are hundreds of programs out there for copying DVDs, and everything else under the sun. accept it.


So maybe its our right to copy whatever we want? it seems to happen a lot. Dual tape deck stereos, DVD writable drives, MP3s, emulators, CD burners, Dual deck VCRs, I mean are you kidding me? why arent you attacking these things and just focusing on ME when I say its cool??


awnser that!



and once again all you usually have to say is, "you're stupid and blah blah blah..." would you cry when you see people getting to a party for free? I bet you wouldnt care if you didnt think the music was worth 40 dollars. grow up Michael Jackson!

[psychadelicious]

you are all women who cry too much... hahah just kidding but seriously everyone has their own oppinion so **** it. There is nothing that you can do about it unless you are an owner of a search engine.

[AtomSky_Chen]

ISOs are illegal no matter what you say. No need to discuss on this any more...
ROMs could be the same when they are new...

p.s. Wragg, please unban my account "Jeff Chen"... I didn't do anything wrong, did I?

[nexus one]

I say any moderator who posts an IP address of a user purely because he disagrees with their opinion should be stood down IMMEDIATELY. If dcemu is trying to establish itself as a professional source of news and community, idiots like that who abuse their position of power over the drop of a hat are only going to do this website harm.

Moderators are supposed to be mature, unbiased, open and sensible. I don't care how quickly 1timeuser removed the IP address and host. The fact is that he posted it. It wasn't even over an argument or flamewar. He simply posted an alternate point of view to the piracy argument and BAM! a goddamn moderator, of all things, posts his personal data all over the internet.

His excuse? Oh, I'm sorry. Sometimes I can't control myself.

Good one. If you can't control yourself, do us all a favour and step down.

[yaustar]

So maybe its our right to copy whatever we want? it seems to happen a lot. Dual tape deck stereos, DVD writable drives, MP3s, emulators, CD burners, Dual deck VCRs, I mean are you kidding me? why arent you attacking these things and just focusing on ME when I say its cool??


awnser that!
We are free to backup what we own, not distrubuting copies of copyrighted material which is what you are implying.

There is ethics and there is law and the law is something that everyone must abide by whether we like it or not. If we don't then we can try and get the law changed.

In relation to the original topic, it is against the LAW (in most countries) to distribute copyrighted material and it does seem strange that google has these kind of links in their ads..

@nexus: Its called being human. As far as I can remember, that is the first time that this has happened and everyone is entitled to an 'off' day.

[nexus one]

And for the record, if Sony continues to charge $50 for games which are basically just cut down ports, then they're asking for this treatment.

Handheld games need to be cheaper than their big brother counterparts if they want more people to buy them.

[yaustar]

Oh, so just because it is expensive, it condones piracy? Great arguement. If you dont like, dont buy it. Where the heck does the piracy factor fall in?

While I am not too bothered about the price, I agree there should be a lot more original IP out there for the machine.

[Illegal Machine]

I say any moderator who posts an IP address of a user purely because he disagrees with their opinion should be stood down IMMEDIATELY. If dcemu is trying to establish itself as a professional source of news and community, idiots like that who abuse their position of power over the drop of a hat are only going to do this website harm.

Moderators are supposed to be mature, unbiased, open and sensible. I don't care how quickly 1timeuser removed the IP address and host. The fact is that he posted it. It wasn't even over an argument or flamewar. He simply posted an alternate point of view to the piracy argument and BAM! a goddamn moderator, of all things, posts his personal data all over the internet.

His excuse? Oh, I'm sorry. Sometimes I can't control myself.

Good one. If you can't control yourself, do us all a favour and step down.



thank you. I wrote a letter of disproval suggesting he be banned permanently.


although I don't know what good it will do.



you know I got banned from PSPcrazy because someone didnt like my opinion..

these people need to move to a communist country and abuse thier power in a socially acceptable manner.







On a semi related note.




I have to tell you, I've been to more than a few 3rd world countries, or communist countires, and some of these economies can't afford, or don't have access to games for PS2, or computers at the current market price. Nor is it feasable for them to order online, (even tho they have computers) and the only way a lot of people in these areas can even play PS2, computer games or otherwise is to obtain PIRATED copies either over the internet, or from collector/distriburors. so cry all you want, if it wasn't for these practices a lot of people wouldn't even be able to watch certain movies, play a lot of games, and do a LOT of the things you have full access to on a regular basis and think nothing of.

k

[Illegal Machine]

it may be true that non of the developers are affected, but places like that eb games that still sell old school cartiages( making profits of them to ), will suffer, these ppl should be considered in the equation aswell. Now without any hard fact it's hard to say how much Sony suffer from iso. For instances take xbox/ps2 console every game is avaliable in ISO format, but both console are still doing strong business. Look at pc game industry, every game that gets released is hacked and avaliable for the general public, but developers still stay in the pc business. Now since this is a capitalism they must be having profits otherwise why not stop developing games for these systems.


Exactly

[nexus one]

Oh, so just because it is expensive, it condones piracy? Great arguement. If you dont like, dont buy it. Where the heck does the piracy factor fall in?

If the price was lower, more people would be open to dropping a little bit of cash on a game to see if it was good, rather than downloading it. It's simple first year economics. If the price is too high, a black market opens up.

And lets face it, the price is too high.

Sony - it's a handheld. The games aren't at the same quality level as the ps2/xbox/pc/gcn equivalent. Drop the price to reflect this, and you won't have any more problems.

Illegalmachine - Saying you got banned from other forums probably doesn't help your case. Having said that, there's no excuse whatsoever for 1timeuser's behaviour.

[babu]

Oh, so just because it is expensive, it condones piracy? Great arguement. If you dont like, dont buy it. Where the heck does the piracy factor fall in?

what nexus one said is true, and it has been applied to multi-billion dollor market, such as music, I won't say the same of the programs, but they are out there, you just do a simple search of artist/name of the song/album and BHAM u got thousands of user to download from, if u still didn't understand, i'am talking about p2p. Now that market 'says' it was suffering from piracy, but who in their right mind would buy a cd that had 10 crappy song and only 1 song that a user wants. With all the piracy and the disapproval from the general public, forced the music market to change the way it does business, software like itunes were built where u can get 1 song for $0.99 cents and not have to buy the whole CD. So does music industry still suffer from piracy, Sadly YES, but is it adapting, Sadly YES, <-- that's a joke :D

No why can't this business model be applied to other markets :confused:

I think Kaiser said it best, most of us doing some form of piracy( roms is still piracy, justifying that it's old and doesn't effect the current console, is wrong) and even if you are not, rule of this site is that there should be no discussion about it. I can more then happly live with that.

But i think the problem started when wraggster says that in his opion other websites that don't condone the distribution of iso/ROM should be shut down. If he has the right to discuss about anti-piracy rulz of other sites then user who don't agree with him should have the right to speak up in favour of piracy atleast. My point is if we try to expand the scope of dcemu site rulz on other sites, it will upset alot of ppl. <-- does this remind you of anything, Bush, Iraq war. err I went off topic again :mad:

Piracy is wrong and inmoral, but not everyone has same moral. so we should stop deciding for other ppl. Let them make up their own mind :cool:

[Illegal Machine]

Saying you got banned from other forums probably doesn't help your case. Having said that, there's no excuse whatsoever for 1timeuser's behaviour.


take that back.

You basicly just condoned that behavior here and elsewhere.


Besides that was a 15 year old kid that banned me, if you ask me there should be an age cap for mods..


plus I was being really really really insulting in that thread

[Darksaviour69]

one point is really being looked over. the one that gets effected the most is not the publishers or sony... its the developers. Developers are going out of business left right and center! Think about it, the casual gamer that does not have the technical know how to pirate games buys all the crap fifa, and crapy movie tie in games, at full price.

people that pirate tend to be more hardcore gamers that play the better rare games, but they are being stolen! the publishers can handle the loss but the developers go out of business. its one reason why there are less great, different games and loads of the same crapy driving, fps, movie tie in games.

as you may or may not know there are still the odd releases for the dreamcast, some from japan some from independent publishers (GOAT store). not many games are printed (1000-5000?) so every sale counts. The is a so called dreamcast fan site out there that releases torrents of theses games, and so called dreamcast fans download them... but in the end it will just kill of the DC quicker as there will not be enough sales to justify releasing more games!


as for 1timeuser. he made a mistake, he came to me and pointed it out and asked for advise. he has been warned not to do it again. But i would much rather a mod that admits when he makes a mistake than one that trys to cover it up.

we all made mistakes, and we will all keep making mistakes. whats more important is that we learn from then... which i belive that 1timeuser has.

[Cap'n 1time]

I guess it would have been better if i didnt appologize then? I tell you what, when you all become mods you can fix mistakes your way. Right now all I can do is learn from my mistakes and move on.

Illegal machine, I never did ban you. I dont even have ban rights.. I posted your IP address for about 3 mins, which is bad enough I suppose.. I then went on IRC and explained my actions to DS (pretty much 2nd in command around here) and he kindly asked me to appolgize.. so I did. If you want to try to have me removed contact DarkSavior or wraggster either via PM or on irc on Efnet in the #dcemu channel. But stay on topic here. In fact you never were on topic.. This topic is about Ads and spam that damage the scene.

The rules say to stay on topic and if this discussion continues I will be forced to close this topic. Now quit your bitching.

[yaustar]

If the price was lower, more people would be open to dropping a little bit of cash on a game to see if it was good, rather than downloading it. It's simple first year economics. If the price is too high, a black market opens up.
Would they though? You be surprised how many people pirate games regardless of the cost just becuase they can get it for 'free'. If I wanted to buy a game a loweer price, I wait till it hits budget, buy online, or ebay/second hand. I don't go away and download an ISO just becuase I cant afford it yet.

I dont disagree with your point (Xbox Live Arcade is thriving at the moment), I just dont feel that it can be used as a reason/excuse for piracy (a matter of personal ethics here).

The main problem with rising prices is due because the main stream want bigger and better games, which ups development costs, time and budget to stupid numbers (even worse when the PS3 hits the market). Thanks to uncreased factors, developers can only afford to develop garunteed (sp?) 'AAA@ best seller titles and to do that they have to fall back on tried and tested formulas and IPs for hits (sequels, movie tie ins) just because they will sell.

What makes it worse is that publishers and retailers take around 80% or more (cant remember the exact figures) of the total cover price of a game. This is why smaller independent companies have disappeared / merged with larger ones in the past year or so.

Thankfully some developers are taking steps to new distrubution methods, Xbox Live Arcade and Steam (Introversion are using to distribute Darwinia) are good examples.

At the moment the PSP is just being used by developers to make some quick instant cash because the development time for a port from a PS2 verison is so short, they can still turn a small profit even if a samll number were sold.

[Illegal Machine]

Now if someone is trying to charge money for that which should be free... well go to the store and look at a bottle of water and tell me what you think of that. BUYER BEWARE comes to mind somehow.. I'd charge someone 10 bucks to downgrade thier PSP. Just like some jerk would charge me a few hundred bucks to do work on my car. this is a service economy. if you have a friend thats willing to do it for free... DON'T pay. if you feel like paying, don't blame the guy charging. these users don't have to pay for anything. they choose to.


and those of you considering "telling" on others for what they're up to, DON'T.

it's none of your business. Go join the police force and stop real crimes of you're SOOO concerned about someones safety, because I assure you the stockholders and corporate officers over at Sony wouldn't even piss on your head if it was on fire.

K thanks



Ummmmm this was the first post I made?


And its on topic... it wasnt untill YOU and your ilk started attacking me for condoning the use of ISOS that YOU took it off topic



and Apology denied!


I want you OFF this board forever. And I'm going to write a letter every time I think about it requesting to remove YOU.


I don't care if you had a bad day, I don't care if your daddy kicks your ass, I don't care if you had a test that day and didnt sleep for a week beforehand. Theres no excuse, and YOU are NOT excused for your actions.


We arent friends, I didnt insult YOU, I WAS on topic, and what did you do?


WHAT DID YOU DO?


I hope you're sorry, and I hope you remember this.

I think you're worthless 1timeuser. Id sit here and insult you but I learned my lesson with that..

if I did that I'd get banned.


You can apolgize forever and ever.

It was uncalled for.

[Cap'n 1time]

... stop

putting spaces

between everything.
And your just being a whiny ninny. I dont care if you dont accept my apology and honestly i wont loose a wink of sleep. Your working your way twards deserrving a ban actually. and i still really dont think that is on topic. What does that have to do wtih googles random advertising?

[nexus one]

1timeuser, stop being so pathetic.

The IP address you are able to see is provided to you for security purposes, it should never be posted to the general public. NEVER. In the seven-odd years I have used the internet, this is the first time I have ever seen anyones IP posted within a forum. It's disgraceful and disgusting, and there was absolutely no reason for it to happen in the first place.

You think no one saw it? Take a look at the amount of hits this website gets per day and think again. There's an awful lot of people with PSP's who use the internet. This is one of the largest sites for the community. 3 minutes can be a very long time, and in that three minutes, you may have very well have threatened the right to anonymity that that Illegal Machine has, as well as the security of the computer he uses.

You're supposed to be a moderator. This is an internet forum for general discussion. The freaking webmaster opens up a discussion about piracy, and the FIRST user to post an (intellegent, well thought out) response gets gets their private data posted online? What kind of a community are you running here? If this is how you handle this, I'd hate to see how you'd handle a serious event, you know, the kind that your position was designed for...

For what it's worth, I actually found his post informative. Especially the last few lines about the officers and stockholders. I had never thought about it that way. It shows that this user is probably more beneficial than 95% of the other users on this board, and you just kicked him in the teeth for declaring his thoughts.

And he's right. He didn't go off track. You did. You started all this. What kind of response were you expecting? We'd all laugh and think what a great moderator 1sttimeuser is? I know I certainly don't see this from your side, and I can't imagine anyone else does.

I think it's good that you apologised. Well done. Too bad it was completely half-hearted and transparent. If it was me, I wouldn't accept it either. Again, you showed your worth by abusing the poor guy's writing style, threating him with a ban and posting an immature picture.

Webmasters, Admins, etc... Is this really what you want from a moderator? Is he providing the service you expect? Does he serve ANY purpose, other than to bring down the reputation of this website you have worked so hard to create? If this is standard procedure for these forums then you can expect to lose many members, myself included.

Should this discussion be taken to PM? Possibly... but I don't think so. This matter was made public by 1timeuser, who moderates the site, so it deserves to stay public. No doubt the thread will be closed because it's 'turned into a personal attack' or 'gone off topic'. That will be a shame. It reminds me of high school where the teachers could as they pleased, but if the students revolted, they were given detention. The topic of conversation has changed somewhat, yes. But that's what keeps threads interesting.

I'll make an effort to get back on track, nonetheless.
First, lets look at movies. I'll see a movie once in the cinema. If it's a really really good film, I'll see it twice, and if it still blows my mind, I'll buy the DVD. So thats $10+$10+$15 (total: $35) they've made out of me. At the most. Not every consumer will spend that much. (The prices are approximates, I'm not American). A movie costs a lot to make. A cheap hollywood movie is around $50 million. Yet there's profit to be made there.
A game costs $50, maybe more in some cases, and I can't recall any game that costs more than, say, $10 million to make. At the most.
Do you see what my point is? Movies are really expensive to make, yet the average consumer spends around $10-$20 on it. Games, in comparison, are relatively cheap to make, yet cost $50.
On top of that, they say the games industry has taken over the movie industry in terms of revenue. If a game studio goes out of business, it's because they're making crap games. Most other companies seem to have the cash rolling in.

Now lets look at the music industry. I bring this up because of what yaustar said:
At the moment the PSP is just being used by developers to make some quick instant cash because the development time for a port from a PS2 verison is so short, they can still turn a small profit even if a samll number were sold.
This is the case in the music industry. Don't believe me? Read Richard Branson's autobiography 'Losing my Virginity'. The guy that started Virgin records, for those of you who don't know. In it, he describes the business model of Virgin records. He talks about how he uses the profits of the popular, cheap artists to support the costs of the other artists who aren't doing so well. When the popular artist (Mike Oldfield, I believe) finds this out, he goes off his tree. He feels that he's being ripped off and abused by the record company.
This, is sort of how I feel the developers are treating us. The PSP is a money making scheme for half of them. Scale down the PS2 release, charge full price for it. It's a no brainer, really. Kind of like charging full price for a Greatest Hits CD. It's mostly profit due to it requiring a lot less work than the other versions. It shows, too. Most of the ports we receive feel incomplete and substandard. In comparision, most of the original titles (Wipeout Pure and Lumines spring to mind) feel very polished. It's not these titles I have a problem with, it's the rip off ports that I despise, and the PSP is bloody full of them.

$50 to buy NBA 06, or whatver for the home console.
$50 to buy a scaled down, shoddy, buggy version. Where's the incentive? 'It's advantage is portablity' I hear you say. Big deal, that doesn't affect the development one bit. 'You can't fit as much on a UMD'. Whatever. You can fit 1.8gigs on a UMD, and most games don't come close to that at all. If they did, it would actually REDUCE piracy, as minimal people would be able to fit them on their Memory Sticks. I know the PSP doesn't have the graphical power of it's bigger brother. Despite Sony's claims that it did, I understand that it's not possible, and accept that, so I'm not asking for graphical wizardry. I'm asking for a bit of polish and a sense of money well spent.

[Illegal Machine]

Right on Nexus, as usual.

this isnt the first time Ive seen "mods" abuse thier position because they lost an argument, or decided to be a little kid.

He's just upset about something else in his life and he's taking it out on here.


and he seems to have major control issues too. w/e



Back on to topic... I agree, these Video game companies, movie makers, and thier associated retailers have been making a killing off of us, over and over, so now the PSP comes out, and its AWESOME to say the least, but I just can't even fathom how much money sony pays to close out homebrew and other things.


now as far as Google is concerned, Well... They arent the censorship board, and are pretty much just a big company/program/service. With the amount of traffic the internet sees, and the new uploads, sites, and searches that happen on a daily basis, I can't see google monitoring everyone and everything, and I wouldnt want them to either. Honestly Im glad that some people are at least advertising the "true" features that the PSP posesses. whether its this site, or some asshole trying to charge for a downgrader, and not giving a damn if whoever is downloading it has a 2.6 undowngradable PSP or not. Whatever you do, you have to do your homework. If you need a new hubcap for your cadillac, and go out and get the wrong thing, should that store you bought the Lincoln hubcap at stop advertising? nope. and maybe you could go somewhere and see people giving cadillac hubcaps away for free. then you'd feel really ripped off, but you couldnt blame anyone but yourself for not knowing.


people can't control each other, they try a lot, and most of the time they succeed, but its all a bunch of BS.

Live and let live. if there are people out there trying to make a buck off of the PSP, let em. Should Google shut down ALL of the rom sites? Hell no.

never

[Kaiser]

I understand your argument a little more clearly now Illegal Machine. Thanks for bringing us all back on topic, but I got one more comment to chip in.

There is a lot of Sony hate going around because of them constantly releasing firmware for us. But you got to understand its their product. Buying it doesn't give you complete freedom over what you can do with it. A functionaing society must have limits to its citizens freedoms. If people simply did what they want, with what they want, and when they want then there would be chaos. I can also agree with pretty much anything yaustar said in this topic. He's a logical guy. Any more discussion of our no-ISO policy can be brought here (http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=14830)

I think PSmonkey said it best when it comes to Sony's position.


As a comercial developer I understand what sony has to do. Sony must protect it's IP and comercial developers. Yet I think every once in a while a small back door will be left for us to progress homebrew without piracy. People seem to forget that sony is the most suportive of homebrew and indy game developers out of all 3 major console companys with the ps2 linux kit, the ps1 yarouze and even funding of indy games in japan. I have no dout in my mind that sony would have eventualy released some development tools for homebrew developers to make small games for the psp.

[Illegal Machine]

understood.


Just consider these things for a moment.

Sony HAD the minidiscs, but discontinued them for some reason
then they come out with useless read only UMDs which as we have all seen havent done too well.
and they practicly bend over backwards trying to lock users out of thier god given rights.


So as I see it, sony could have saved themselves a lot of trouble even trying to play this little game of who will do what and where.. when MICROSOFT of all companies decides to adapt and offer downloadable roms over Xbox live. So sony is really in the end kind of assraping themselves in a way because they spend LOADS of money on attempting to excersise a minimum amount of control over its own customers, ( a battle in my opinion they are losing) LOADS of money on developing and distributing thier crappy failing UMDs, which in the end only results in OTHER people (the ones running the "warez" sites) cashing in on thier paranoia/dementia. ultimately this is MY psp, and I want to watch porn, or whatever on it Im entitled to. if sony was allowing downloadable roms and emulators over the wifi, Id probably have done that afew times and been happy..


so its thier loss in the end and it all comes back to thier stupid practice of trying to control your activities on your own product

[Kaiser]

-When it comes to the PSP, yes creating a read only format is a smart move, it allows them to control it easier.

-When it comes to the survival of the format it self however, creating a read only format limits the success of the UMD.

We all know of Sony's failed formats. But the PSP is still young and could succeed. Lowering the price of UMDS would be a smart move. Lets face it, UMD movies are not worth the price people are asking. If UMDS were expanded beyond a PSP then it would help the format as well. The main reason why past Sony formats failed is because Sony controlled the exclusive rights to their production. CD's and DVD's are successful because every company can get them without a middle man to buy them from. Sony has to loosen its grip on the format and allow non-Sony machines to run them.

P.S: I still don't think everybody should be able to do whatever they want with a formet. Its not a God-given right. How would Sony stop piracy then?

[Illegal Machine]

Well, they wouldnt. thats not a bad idea about lowering the price of UMD movies. considering you can barely hear them AT ALL unless you're using headphones. a DVD is about 20 bucks, tops. if you're going to have movie night with your friends and watch... say fight club, thats 5 maybe 8 people watching that one movie.. you're not going to do that all the time, every night isnt movie night, but you might take that DVD over to a friends house, OR lend it to them for a week or 2. But you can't really do any of these things with a UMD movie, so Lets put the REAL value of a UMD at about lets say...... 5 bucks? maybe even less, considering how UN-universal it really is. I wonder if they'll ever reach that level of what theyre really worth.

[Kaiser]

I'd say 15-20 bucks CDN is a good deal for a UMD movie. Right now they're around the same price as a DVD. Sadly I'm not sure if that would be profitable at least not this early as the format is new and expensive.






Now this has gone off-topic, I didn't help at all with my last couple posts either ;).Topic closed, if you want to keep discussing UMD's make a new topic.