PDA

View Full Version : Is Piracy a Big Factor in Todays Consoles



wraggster
July 9th, 2006, 00:16
When you look at the worldwide success of the Nintendo DS Lite (http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?products_id=9327&lsaid=219793) and the incredible sales of games throughout the world even when theres Flash Carts (http://www.divineo.cn/php/affstart.php?affcode=arboretum&prod=nds-gfla4) for the console is testament that maybe piracy isnt affecting consoles like it used to.

The PSP has its iso loaders but even since they were released only those who know homebrew and a few others know of the loaders, most normal users wouldnt have a clue and the same can be said for the Xbox and PS2, so is piracy a big factor on consoles these days ?

Does it really hurt sales or do those who try actually go out and buy, what are your views on this subject ?

Lets have a decent discussion about the questions raised above.

wraggster
July 9th, 2006, 00:17
no posting to iso links etc or be warned and banned

goity
July 9th, 2006, 00:39
Well, personally I think that it isn't worth the bother even to pirate xbox games ;), but I don't think piracy is done by a serious, or even significant amount of people for console makers to be too worried about.

ArchAngel
July 9th, 2006, 00:52
Think of it this way... People who use homebrew like us PSP owners probably said "Holy Crap! You can play SNES on PSP!!" And went out and bought one. SO I think that Piracy isnt much different. People who see that they can use piracy to do things with consoles actually have yet 500 more reasons to spend their hard earned cash on a console. You cant have piracy without the base.

DaGamer
July 9th, 2006, 00:52
I would say it's hurting psp industry A BUNCH, lots of movie companies are making less umd releases because of piracy, and the only reason game prices raise is because of pirates, well mabie a little greed mixed inside, but the more prices raise the more pirates are going to pirate, and finally gaming industry will collapse, but after a period of (possibly long) slumber, someone will surely try and start the gaming industry back up again, but during the period, there will be NO game even made for people to pirate, so pirates are forcing their doom but carrying us with them.

Voltron
July 9th, 2006, 01:06
ha ha. Funny topic to see after being banned for similar discussion. Its been discussed and debated time and time again with good arguments from both sides of the spectrum.

A lot of you know where I stand but I'll state it again.

In my opinion, especially in "todays" consoles as the title of this thread says, no, piracy is not really a big factor that is threatening to bring down any of the major gaming consoles.

1.) The PS2 is still going strong and Sony execs stated they think the PS2 will see a 10 year lifespan. And the PS2 seems to easily be able to play "back up" PS2 games.

2.) The GameCube & XBOX are not really doing so hot lately but that is because they are dying off being at the end of their lifecycle. Not cause of piracy. you can't even pirate GameCube games can you?

3.) I have to imagine the XBOX 360 is pretty secure, and it will probably be years before the copy protection used for Blu-Ray is decrypted or hacked so the PS3 is not in any danger. Also, who the hell wants to download a 25GB PS3 game? Not me. Its enough of a hassle messing with PSP ISO's and they are almost always less than 1GB.

4.) If you have the right stuff, it is much easier to play NDS & GBA ROMS on a Nintendo DS than it is to play PSP ISO's on a PSP. But yet the Nintendo DS is dominating the PSP in almost every region.

5.) There probably are not as many die-hard PSP homebrew experts to cause a big profit loss for Sony due to ISO Loaders. Give DevHook or DAX Loader or any other loader to any homebrew "n00b" and tell them to use it. Most would probably smash their PSP out of frustration. Also for that reason, a lot of PSP homebrew users are intimidated by comlex nature of some of the ISO Loaders. I was one of those people once.

With all that said, quite simply I love using PSP ISO's. But I do own most games in UMD as well. I just have a 1.50 PSP and can't play the games otherwise. The faster CPU speed, extended battery life, and elimination of painful load times that the PSP is known for among other benefits makes ISO Loading spectacular on the PSP.

I KNOW most PSP homebrew users with a 1.50 PSP feel the same. I'm just not afriad to voice my support of it.

Also, I'm not so naive to not acknowledge the dangers and harm of piracy. But the only areas where I have seen major losses due to piracy is from Computer Software & Music. Video games are not really threatened too much by it. And with the next-gen consoles on their way, I don't think it will be worthwhile to try and play pirated PS3 games. Maybe in 3-4-6 years when Blu-Ray discs are as cheap as blank DVD's now and Blu-Ray Burners come in every PC. But not in the near future.

Now pardon me, I must go back to playing Tekken: Dark Resurrection on my trusty 1.50 :D

arashi
July 9th, 2006, 01:11
The only way to know this answer for sure is to survey every user of a given console, and ask them how many games they wanted to buy and did vs how many they wanted to buy and pirated.
Statistics showing how many iso's were downloaded mean nothing, because the intent to purchase is unknown. A drop in overall game sales means nothing, because there are a ton of economic factors other than piracy that affect a consumer's decision to buy something. It's really easy for manufacturers to blame lack of interest in a game on piracy, and continue efforts in DRM and such.

The big issue for manufacturers is the warm and fuzzy they get when a system is unhackable, and they can actually rely on game sales numbers, vs a hackable system that makes those sales numbers meaningless. Of course, used game sales also forfeits the results, which is why there are undercurrents of talk about locking out used games.

So basically, you'll never know what's going on in a consumer's head until you control their mind entirely. Enter cyberpunk references... :)

platypusrme427
July 9th, 2006, 01:18
PS2 Piracy sounds fun, I think I'll try it. Thanks for the great idea DCEMU!




















:D Just Kidding DCEMU!

dOOmy
July 9th, 2006, 01:33
The lack of knowlege of the general public on how to get and play pirate games astounds me. Dont these people know anything? Even my friend who is a BIG gamer buys his games cause he "works all day long and doesnt have the time to do the pirate thing". When I talk to the people in the videogame stores not one has tried it ( they can borrow games from the stores fro free so they say why bother?). I once used to work in a place for crazy people and I got the opinion that everyone was crazy. Now I see that that was just a tiny percentage of humanity that was like that. Being theives we think that everyone else is a theif. but we are just a tiny percentage too. So in ending I think that piracy hurts the videogame makers not at all cause even though people think its cool almost noone is doing it outside of the people reading this right now

DaGamer
July 9th, 2006, 01:33
I guess voltron's got his points that i agree on, but daxziso's not that hard to use it... nither is devhook... good point on the bluray, but psp game scene don't look that promising tho. backups are just way too easy to get and runs better than the original copy anyways

xiringu
July 9th, 2006, 01:36
I think big companies (not only consoles, but music, and movies aswell) fear that their profits stall or rise too slowly for them to be happy.

it's funny to hear them whinning all the time, and then present those profits year by year of zillions of dollars...and, oh yes, they still want more.

I know how long it takes to develop a game and all that, but...if we had access to the real accounts, I'm sure we'd be surprised of how much they actually win for every game...but they still want more.

they always talk about losing money, but that's not true, they never lose. instead of having 20% profits, they might have 15%, you get the point.


if they try to sell games at $40 and they don't sell enough, they blame it on piracy, but they never say people CAN'T AFFORD to buy games so expensive. they assume that we are going to pay that for a game and if possible 1 or 2 a month...NO WAY!


so one thing, is money...and another is what you get for your money.

i love watching previews and the latest technology graphics stuff for games, but when you play the games, 99% of them are crap, pretty, but still crap or copies of another game.

I could live playing only with the demos you get from websites or magazines, because I just want to see the games, and many times I can't spend more than 1/2 or 1 hour playing to a game, and that's it...I don't want to see it again...

"seen it before" and "boring" are probably the comments I'd say after watching a new release

it's sad but it's the same with movies...when was the last time you really enjoyed a movie and thought it was worth your money?

so, is piracy killing the console star?
NO

nyrtrublue
July 9th, 2006, 01:56
personally i use isos to try games its like a blockbuster inside my room and since im to young to drive thats really important to me but if i play a game i like then i will buy it when i get the chance so it helps the console in that aspect which probably helps balance out the die hard pirates

BazzaLB
July 9th, 2006, 02:13
One thing is for sure. Piracy has nothing to do with the cost being charged for games. In Australia, the average AAA PC title costs around 80-90AUD. The PC has plenty of piracy issues. Compare this with the XBOX 360 where there is NO piracy and those games cost 100-110+ AUD. How they justify the ridiculous prices for XBOX 360 games in Australia is beyond me. If they are wondering why the PS2 is still outselling the XBOX 360, it all comes down to the pricing.

What makes the 360 game pricing even more of a joke is when you compare a title like "Prey". Prey ran far smoother and had higher resolution textures in some places on the PC Demo than the 360 Demo I tried, so in some cases, you'll be getting an inferior product for 20+ dollars extra.

AuroEdge
July 9th, 2006, 02:19
Piracy is a big deal. It's not like if there was no piracy that game prices would be reduced, you'd be naive to believe game companies would sell games for less than they can get away. However, piracy is unlawful. Does it make sense to try out an iso of a game to see if you like it and subsequently buy it? Maybe. Still wrong though.

oninotsume
July 9th, 2006, 02:23
Okay,

I work for a major game company (no I will not tell you which one), but let me assure you that piracy prevention is a MAJOR issue.

A lot of people say "$ony trying to steal your money" or "Microsoft" just in it for the money. The people who say this have obviously never worked at a company. Of COURSE they are trying to make money! However, they ARE NOT bringing in the boatloads that people imagine. Companies publish many games, but many games fail and you have to be able to cover that loss in order to pay all the programmers, designers, developers, testers, localizers, marketing, producers, etc., etc. These are the lives of HUMAN BEINGS and their FAMILIES that the company has to support. Plus you need money for future development and company growth at the same time, otherwise people will say "their games are no good anymore."

With the retail price of games (especially in the US) already low, and the cost of development easily soaring into the double digit millions IT IS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO MAKE A PROFIT! Every pirate cuts into what may have been a sale.

I've seen my games up on torrents, and yeah it pisses me off, because I know the people who are downloading it aren't thinking about the thousands of collective hours of overtime, stress, and all of the blood sweat and tears that went into planning and creating the game. They just want to enjoy the benefits, leaching off us like parasites.

I would seriously like to punch them in the face, for insulting me and everyone who worked on the project, and all of their friends and family who had to go through the hardship of making a game with them.

That's my two cents's:(

Don't pirate, YOU ARE STEALING and YOU ARE KILLING THE INDUSTRY. It isn't just Sony and Microsoft out there, there are many game publishers who don't have thier coffers and are working their asses off to make good games.

SSaxdude
July 9th, 2006, 02:26
With all that said, quite simply I love using PSP ISO's.
[/B] on my trusty 1.50 :D
Yeah me too. I will admit I'm a huge pirate, but with out them I would have probably sold my PSP. Homebrew is awesome and all, but I also really like playing commercial games. What I don't like is how this site is so negetive towards iso loaders, but that's their opinion and I don't think anyone can change it.
It doesn't matter if people are pirating games because there will never be enough to make a huge impact. BTW, I've also almost been banned on several occasions.

Emeriastone
July 9th, 2006, 02:38
I think what is most important is that we support game developers by purchasing the worthwhile games. This shows that we are loyal and supportive of the developers and the console distributors.

This goes as well for those who contribute to digital piracy; those who do so should know that it hurts the gaming industry, and if they won't stop the piracy, at least they can purchase a game once and a while.

Voltron
July 9th, 2006, 03:34
I would say it's hurting psp industry A BUNCH, lots of movie companies are making less umd releases because of piracy, and the only reason game prices raise is because of pirates, well mabie a little greed mixed inside, but the more prices raise the more pirates are going to pirate, and finally gaming industry will collapse, but after a period of (possibly long) slumber, someone will surely try and start the gaming industry back up again, but during the period, there will be NO game even made for people to pirate, so pirates are forcing their doom but carrying us with them.

NO WAY, Give me a break!
1.) UMD Videos were never widely received or supported. The prices were ridiculous. 14.99-19.99 or higher. Same as DVD prices. Why would you want a scaled down stripped version of movie when you could get so much more on a DVD for a few dollars more?

2.) Game prices have raised? In what country? Not in the U.S.A. I bought my PSP on March 24, 2005 (launch day) and some launch games were $49.99 for the PSP. Now most games are 39.99, some 19.99-29.99. What are you talking about? So before PSP homebrew even existed, games were the same price as what they are now. ISO Loading is NOT hurting sales or raising prices.

3.) You state soon the gaming industry will collapse and be doomed. Again, what country are you from? In the U.S.A. the Video Game Industry is at an ALL TIME HIGH and growing stronger year by year. Pirates are forcing their demise and taking us with them? I think you've been watching too many pirate movies lately. When it comes to the PSP, where can you buy "pirated" games? You can't. You can't really make bootleg UMD games and sell them on a street corner like you can CD's DVD's, Computer Software, etc. etc. Pirates are hijacking the PSP's success.


I guess voltron's got his points that i agree on, but daxziso's not that hard to use it... nither is devhook...

Yes, you are right. The loaders themselves are not difficult to use. What I was referring to is all of the firmware file installation, the constant updates, the custom MODS to allow features such as No Autorun, return to 1.50 xmb, etc. etc. It can be a lot to wrap your head around if you are not familiar with it.


I work for a major game company, let me assure you that piracy prevention is a MAJOR issue. A lot of people say "$ony trying to steal your money" or "Microsoft" just in it for the money. These are the lives of HUMAN BEINGS and their FAMILIES that the company has to support. IT IS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO MAKE A PROFIT! Every pirate cuts into what may have been a sale.

Excellent post oninotsume, it really sheds light on the business side of things. I agree that is is extremely hard to make a dollar. And companies, just because they are big, are not the beneficiaries of unlimited sums of money. Every day companies face mergers/acquisitions, bankruptcy, etc. etc. You speak first-hand and make a very strong point AGAINST all piracy. I'd feel bad for what I do now but I buy most of my games and dump them myself.


Homebrew is awesome and all, but I also really like playing commercial games.

Yes, I agree. I constantly hear people talking about how all PSP games suck. That is not true. There are now a LOT of really great commercial games. I don't so much use ISO Loaders for the thievery, I do it because I have a 1.50 PSP and a lot of games won't play unless backed up to ISO. I play commercial PSP games more than my XBOX 360/PS2/GameCube games. I love PSP games. I just wish more of them would feature infrastructure WiFi.

dupp
July 9th, 2006, 03:38
ha ha. Funny topic to see after being banned for similar discussion. Its been discussed and debated time and time again with good arguments from both sides of the spectrum.

A lot of you know where I stand but I'll state it again.

In my opinion, especially in "todays" consoles as the title of this thread says, no, piracy is not really a big factor that is threatening to bring down any of the major gaming consoles.

1.) The PS2 is still going strong and Sony execs stated they think the PS2 will see a 10 year lifespan. And the PS2 seems to easily be able to play "back up" PS2 games.

2.) The GameCube & XBOX are not really doing so hot lately but that is because they are dying off being at the end of their lifecycle. Not cause of piracy. you can't even pirate GameCube games can you?

3.) I have to imagine the XBOX 360 is pretty secure, and it will probably be years before the copy protection used for Blu-Ray is decrypted or hacked so the PS3 is not in any danger. Also, who the hell wants to download a 25GB PS3 game? Not me. Its enough of a hassle messing with PSP ISO's and they are almost always less than 1GB.

4.) If you have the right stuff, it is much easier to play NDS & GBA ROMS on a Nintendo DS than it is to play PSP ISO's on a PSP. But yet the Nintendo DS is dominating the PSP in almost every region.

5.) There probably are not as many die-hard PSP homebrew experts to cause a big profit loss for Sony due to ISO Loaders. Give DevHook or DAX Loader or any other loader to any homebrew "n00b" and tell them to use it. Most would probably smash their PSP out of frustration. Also for that reason, a lot of PSP homebrew users are intimidated by comlex nature of some of the ISO Loaders. I was one of those people once.

With all that said, quite simply I love using PSP ISO's. But I do own most games in UMD as well. I just have a 1.50 PSP and can't play the games otherwise. The faster CPU speed, extended battery life, and elimination of painful load times that the PSP is known for among other benefits makes ISO Loading spectacular on the PSP.

I KNOW most PSP homebrew users with a 1.50 PSP feel the same. I'm just not afriad to voice my support of it.

Also, I'm not so naive to not acknowledge the dangers and harm of piracy. But the only areas where I have seen major losses due to piracy is from Computer Software & Music. Video games are not really threatened too much by it. And with the next-gen consoles on their way, I don't think it will be worthwhile to try and play pirated PS3 games. Maybe in 3-4-6 years when Blu-Ray discs are as cheap as blank DVD's now and Blu-Ray Burners come in every PC. But not in the near future.

Now pardon me, I must go back to playing Tekken: Dark Resurrection on my trusty 1.50 :D
to half answer about gamecube piracy... i read onlin that with PSO and the adapter for broadband it is possible to rip the games to your hard drive and play them off of there, although a rental fee to get the disk is far better than the 50 + to get the game... even with blockbusters crazy 7.50 rental fees... to the other post... i think they stopping UMD movies because sony added the movie player, and most likely everyone with a psp hasa computer at the least, and most likely internet and limewire... why pay for what you can download...

ryan_rocks29
July 9th, 2006, 03:45
you can't even pirate GameCube games can you?

Actually, yes, you can, but it is VERY hard to do because the two things you need to rip a game and the modchip you need to get to play the games are VERY hard to find.

slayer2psp
July 9th, 2006, 03:52
if you own a dvd you can convert it to run on the psp thats legal. what they charge for a umd movie should be a crime thats why thats dying not from people coping them. i for one only play iso on the psp load times are much better but i wouldnt even own any game systems if i couldnt play free games so im not hurting a damn thing i dont sell or share anything. sure i like games but to pay 65.00 dollars for a 360 game is crazy only elder is worth that the rest not even close

Datahax
July 9th, 2006, 03:54
Okay,
Every pirate cuts into what may have been a sale.


What if we were never going to buy the game anyway? Then the company isn't really affected either way except they no longer have the satisfaction that they denied me free entertainment.

For instance I would never have purchased some games I have "aquired" because they are overall bad or don't interest me that much but have some factor that I like, yet wouldn't pay for and would just go without under normal circumstances. Any game I do like I do pay for, or if one of above said games grows on me and it turns out I do like it later on, I tend to go out and buy it.

(Above mentioned are not PSP games, any newer console I almost always buy the games to help support it when starting out, and considering I use the PSP almost exclusively for homebrew at this point it's makes no difference)

ryan_rocks29
July 9th, 2006, 03:56
Also I think that piracy will be dead in the next-gen (for consoles) because take Sony, they have gone comptletly anti-piracy with the PSP and now with the PS3. Also, Nintendo have always been good at blocking out piracy, but maybe people will find ways to play ROMS on the Wii's virtual console or copy the games. I don't know too much about the X360 so I'm not sure with that and piracy.

Datahax
July 9th, 2006, 03:59
Also I think that piracy will be dead in the next-gen (for consoles) because take Sony, they have gone comptletly anti-piracy with the PSP and now with the PS3. Also, Nintendo have always been good at blocking out piracy, but maybe people will find ways to play ROMS on the Wii's virtual console or copy the games. I don't know too much about the X360 so I'm not sure with that and piracy.

I dunno, hackers can be pretty crafty, and they live for doing this kind of stuff. I think it'll be impossible to keep them out forever, even if all software exploits are taken care of hardware based modifications will be around for a while yet.

gas19d
July 9th, 2006, 04:01
piracy wont die... it may actually get stronger. The more complex you make a system the more reasons for someone to hack into it. But there is an enourmous population of people who have no idea whats going on. My friends modded xbox still amazes people when they come over. When i show people homebrew on my psp like snes emulators they think im some sort of genius for having it. As long as it takes considerable effort to pirate stuff its going to be ok. Not too many people will do it and those who day hey they kinda earned it.

PlantationBoss
July 9th, 2006, 04:04
There are two types of game piracy, the ad-hoc home pirate who downloads iso's, and the organised mass duplication pirates who can run off possibly millions of copies for cheap sales, mostly in Asian countries where this is endemic. Given that home pirates probably account for far less than 1% of the users of any given console title, as the overwhelming majority of people don't even know this is possible, far less understand how to carry it out. Then complaints from the game industry that iso downloaders are killing their industry are simply nonsense. Sales will slump purely because games are dull, derivative, unengaging, and just no fun to play, so the market reacts accordingly, and correctly. To blame this on piracy is really just the games industry exhibiting a sense of self-entitlement in which they feel the market owes them sales no matter how poor the product.

As for mass-duplication commercial piracy, the industry has a more real concern here, as the consumer can engage in piracy with absolutely no additional technical knowledge, and may not even know what they are buying is pirated. But this so far seems to be confined to countries where copyright enforcement is lax, and the average consumer doesn't have the income to pay western prices for games or software anyway. Obviously this would be alarming if this type of piracy spills over into western markets, but this doesn't ever likely to happen on a significant scale. I have never personally seen or heard of pirated copies of Halo 2 or GTA for sale in local markets, no doubt it must happen, but conventional law enforcement can contain this quite effectively.

SnoopKatt
July 9th, 2006, 04:22
it will probably be years before the copy protection used for Blu-Ray is decrypted or hacked
It's already been hacked actually, I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere, but I can't remember where...

Sauron96
July 9th, 2006, 04:30
The XBOX 360 is pirate-able...don't even need a chip.

So is the Gamecube...mod the box and DVDs fit nicely.

It's extremely EASY to download games for EVERY SYSTEM.....the knowledge is everywhere, ironically some people are too lazy to learn how.

The PS3 will be hacked....let's see a new technology with no security holes? Please!!!! It will be expensive for the lowly end-user pirate because of the expensive media and Blue-Ray burners but everything becomes cheaper in time.

I can see the Wii being a problem because of it's size, but who knows? Maybe they'll find a way for games to be played by large SD Memory cards like the PSP? Sony was stupid enough to put that GAME folder there, (that's a real thought I'd like to hear more about, I wonder how many people lost their job because of that lovely feature...quick qestion, that folder was supposed to be for demos & updates....how many demos have we gotten???)

These people (scene groups) like the challenge and they are very good at what they do. The end-user, usually, waits patiently at the other end.

I think estimating that 1% of the gaming public pirate games is WAY under shooting it; but I could be wrong of course. I'm amazed when I meet people who still buy movies & music on a consistent basis.

Piracy isn't hurting the business, overly expensive & inflated proudction costs transferred to the customer in $60+ games is what hurts the industry.

SSaxdude
July 9th, 2006, 04:30
I think copying games and then selling them is what is actually bad because you are making money off of what someone else did. 360 has already been hacked, I think PS3 will be hard since no one has a Blu ray burner in their computer, and I think Wii will be easy to hack since Nintendo isn't as concerned about piracy as MS and Sony.

shadowprophet
July 9th, 2006, 05:11
This thread is going to be impossible to moderate....
I mean the very subject alone is a taboo topic.

Shadowprophet exits the thread and pretends he never saw it......

Just remember the rules people. No links to warez. And no warez discussion, (remember) the topic was ,Is software piracy really that big of an issue. like everyone sais it is,- That doesnt mean this thread is a free card to vent iso and warez discussion. We're watching. So avoid breaking the rules;)

N1ghtshade
July 9th, 2006, 05:21
Depends on the particular game and particular console. I'd say overall, very negligable. But on the psp side, iso and video loading probably hurts. Homebrew on the other hand, cancels all that out major league.


Consider this...people often pirate games they don't think are worth the money e.g they wouldn't have bought it anyway.

Aryn
July 9th, 2006, 05:43
I do not believe piracy is affecting most consoles too much. However, policies toward any console/portable system and public relations may play a larger role in the success of a console system and how many people will pirate games for it. I hope I do not sound too biased but I traded in my PSP for a Nintendo DS because I am under the impression that Nintendo's policies regarding the DS are far more friendly and courteous towards consumers than SONY's policies. Of course, the fact that the PSP's games are mostly the same old stuff people have played before and the excessive load times did not help either.

Junixx
July 9th, 2006, 05:52
Of course, the fact that the PSP's games are mostly the same old stuff people have played before and the excessive load times did not help either.

i agree with you

and i think that piracy is a factor, but not that great of a big one, seeing as only a small percentage of the general public know about and how to pirate games, i can still amaze people with moonshell, beup (MSN) and NesDS

DPyro
July 9th, 2006, 05:56
IMO piracy may even help promote games. Say theres a game that you'd like to try but isnt released in your country (say Brave Story :p). If people try it out and like it, they may actually import it. I'd like to think of piracy as more of a rental - only free. Besides that, if they pirate it, it normally means they werent intending on buying it in the first place (unless of course they try it an actually like it, maybe they'll buy it). Same thing can be viewed about music piracy. More people are downloading illegally, yet sales have increased!

Well, thats my rant :rolleyes:

lucidtraveller
July 9th, 2006, 06:07
back in the day i had the cd drive for the n64, i had hundreds of the hk silver disks for the psone....and yet, when i game came out that i was interested in, i went out and usually prepaid for it, the cheap pirated stuff was to entertain me between the games i wanted, i honestly have no real desire to runs iso's on the psp though, for me, a portable is for quick entertainment rather than sitting down with for hours playing a new game that would be better suited on a tv screen.

as far as hurting the industry, i do not think it does, yes the mass produced disks from hong kong hurt sales, but chances are that the person buying 3 dollar pirated games would NOT have gone out and bought new games anyways.

when the game is good, people will buy it, or wait and buy a used copy like i do although i still do not own a single psp game becuse it is for my emulators :D

piracy on computer software does do more harm as far as sales goes i think though since alot of software is insanely priced, possibly to make up for the people pirating it, but i seriously doubt that videogame industry actually takes any sort of loss because those that copy would not buy the gmes new to begin with.

done rambling.

Dweezledap
July 9th, 2006, 06:08
I've been buying and playing games since back in the Atari days. I remember saving $50 from various jobs to buy "Raiders of the Lost Ark" only to be disappointed at the fact the game was virtually impossible to finish.
I have 10 children and own just about every console ever made. I have probably spent in excess of $20,000 dollars in the past 25 years on consoles and games (Carts, UMDs, CDs/DVDs, ect).
Do I think it is alright to use pirated games?
The short answer is yes.
I use this as a try before you buy philosophy. If I find myself or one of my children playing the game for more than a week I will go out and buy it.
In short I do not believe piracy hurts companies as much as they claim.
If they release creative and fun games I believe most will pay for it. If the game is garbage they should not blame poor sales on piracy.

acn010
July 9th, 2006, 06:27
IMO piracy may even help promote games. Say theres a game that you'd like to try but isnt released in your country (say Brave Story :p). If people try it out and like it, they may actually import it. I'd like to think of piracy as more of a rental - only free. Besides that, if they pirate it, it normally means they werent intending on buying it in the first place (unless of course they try it an actually like it, maybe they'll buy it). Same thing can be viewed about music piracy. More people are downloading illegally, yet sales have increased!

Well, thats my rant :rolleyes:
lol, but dude, it is still a piracy with it, no matter what.
i wish it will stop, but its a job for people that had been maintaining their family and theirselfs,

DPyro
July 9th, 2006, 06:33
It wasnt a question of moral, it was a question of if piracy is hurting game companies....My answer was no.

acn010
July 9th, 2006, 06:42
lol
ok dude,
who want to pirate hunt!!

arashi
July 9th, 2006, 06:55
There are two types of game piracy, the ad-hoc home pirate who downloads iso's, and the organised mass duplication pirates who can run off possibly millions of copies for cheap sales, mostly in Asian countries where this is endemic. [...]

As for mass-duplication commercial piracy, the industry has a more real concern here, as the consumer can engage in piracy with absolutely no additional technical knowledge, and may not even know what they are buying is pirated. [...]


I think this is an excellent point. Pirating to test a game or music or movie etc, is one of those moral grey areas. Pirating to make money and deceive others is bad. Trying to enforce IP laws on other countries is the real challenge for companies, but would affect their profit margins the most.

Psyberjock
July 9th, 2006, 07:09
This is what I think is really hurting software companies:

When I saw the advertisements and read the overviews of the Xbox game Tao Feng, I got really excited.

I like fighting games and the first game I bought for my Xbox was DOA3. Hell, I even bought the Xbox because I loved DOA2 on DC so much. Between DOA3 and Tao Feng I bought several games and overall I was satisfied by my purchases.

Tao Feng was released and on the first day I went and paid my $60 and took the game home. It was nothing like I was promised. The so-called hyper-real damage fighting system only affects things between rounds; there was no immediate effect on the characters. The single biggest selling point was a lie. Every other aspect of the game was also exaggerated to the point of escaping from the reality of the game.

This game was made by Microsoft. It was an in-house game. It should have been top notch. Something along the lines of the Halo of fighting games. But it didn't even have HDTV, Live, Syslink, custom soundtracks, or anything else that MICROSOFT had been touting as superior to Sony.

To worsen a poor purchase, the game dropped to $20 in a month. I couldn't even trade it in or sell it to lessen the damage to my game budget.

This was the last game I bought for my Xbox. Now 99% of the time I use my Xbox for XBMC.

Crappy games and false advertising are hurting software companies. I guess you could say software companies are hurting software companies.

ExcruciationX
July 9th, 2006, 07:59
I have to admit that yes, I do pirate games. But not that many, I tried GTA for PSP and loved it. So I left it on there. I don't use the spyware ridden Limewire either I use something else, for my quality pirate games LOL. And, Psyberjock is that you in you're avatar?

shroud
July 9th, 2006, 08:54
I think used games that are being sold by the large software chains in the mall are more damaging then software piracy.
If you could buy a nearly new game that is guaranteed to work for $5 to $10 less then a brand new game most people would save the money and buy a used game.
Unless all of the people are trading in their used games and buying brand new games, the game companies aren't selling any new games. I'm sure if people are trading in their used games they are probably getting used games in return.
Then you have game rentals at Blockbuster video where kids can rent a game, beat it within a week and bring it back. When this happens a company could have lost a successful sale.
The best thing that software companies can do is release a demo of the game and that way people can try it before they buy it. Thats the best part of Xbox Live, the demos for the 360.

MUDD
July 9th, 2006, 09:04
everyone i know that has a psp,xbox,ps1,ps2,pc.
have never pirated anything ,they have jobs and no kids .nice collections of everything and play them when there not working, they love hollywood
and dont do drugs,but love to drink.there a bunch of idiots .that honestly think they belive in god .

me i cannot do it enogh,would do it in my sleep if i could ,have no job ,3 kids a real wife ,never finished a game in my life ,spend more money on gameing crap than ever before in my life. hate hollywood ,and do all kinda drugs, NO alcohol ever .i know there is no god .

so i have no idea what this means ,but there is something here .

my friends are in there mid 20s im almost 40.
i catch them in walmart all the time buying games for the psp,xbox360 and they all have firmware 7 and could careless about homebrew (to much work for them).

the industry never had me as a customer untill i started to pirate.this is my story ,i dont think im hurting them.but i still think piracy is wrong ,i know its wrong and hurts the industry .

Accordion
July 9th, 2006, 09:12
is this some kind of trap to flush out all the rule breakers?
clever

oh and yes i think piracy does hurt current consoles, but not those out of production
...
...
unless your nintendo who insist on reselling all there old nes/snes games because all they can come up with now is mario stikers!

lucidtraveller
July 9th, 2006, 09:14
When I saw the advertisements and read the overviews of the Xbox game Tao Feng, I got really excited. .

i was right there as well.




Crappy games and false advertising are hurting software companies. I guess you could say software companies are hurting software companies.

tao feng did have amazing graphics but yes, he makes a wonderful point and i agree entirely and went thru the exact same experience......

less games made and at a higher quality rather than pushing absolute garbage out the doors of the software companys would be a good thing.

10 bucks an hour is cheap entertainment, most games do not even provide their worth using my 10 bucks an hour equation, now halo, based on my system should have cost about 500 bucks :)

The_It
July 9th, 2006, 09:26
pirating games and programs for your own amusement or knowlage is ok, but pirating things and selling them... now thats just wrong.

I only download old games that aren't sold anymore brand new like snes, nes, and sega genesis now that I have my psp. I tried downloading games for my computer, but it just isn't the same, its actually really boring. I will actually buy the good games like half life 2 and oblivion, it just isn't the same when a great game is pirated. Good games aren't special if you don't own the original copy.

YourStillWithMe
July 9th, 2006, 10:05
I think that everyone just needs to stop complaining about piracy existing and stop trying to make others stop piracy will always exist, there is no way around it you either like it or hate the fact thats all there is to it.

dOOmy
July 9th, 2006, 10:43
Hey oninotsume, if the long hours and stress of workiing in the gaming industry are too much for you, you can just get a job flippin burgers at Burger King. theyre always hiring. But if you did that then you wouldnt make enough money to buy videogames so you would have to download them if you wanted to play.

pokemon_4_life_ese
July 9th, 2006, 11:27
I think that everyone just needs to stop complaining about piracy existing and stop trying to make others stop piracy will always exist, there is no way around it you either like it or hate the fact thats all there is to it.
i believe you are right. as long as the game manufacturers and creators make games there are still going to be people who will pirate games if not for personal profit but to avoid the cost of buying the actual game because they are to cheap to buy it.

btw, speaking of pirates, is Pirates of the Caribbean 2 any good?:p

Mike83
July 9th, 2006, 12:19
I would say the biggest reason for piracy is due to the prices of games. I have downloaded games in the past, and I imagine I will do so again, but, if i download a game I really enjoy, I normally go and and buy it from a shop.
I am also more likely to buy a game if it isn't highly priced, an example being Pro Evo 5. I have this game on the PC and on the Xbox. One is pirated, the other I paid for.
On the Xbox, the game should be between 29.99 and 38.99.
On the PC, the game cost me just 19.99 new, and is currently only £9.99 from play.com (and well worth buying)

I know a number of people who also download games, and are the same as me, they often pay money for there games when they are not highly priced.

b8a
July 9th, 2006, 12:38
First of all, does the fact that it probably doesn't make much of an impact it make it right in ANY way? Nope. Not at all.

Does it have a big impact? Financially speaking, no, I highly doubt it for the majority of situations in the western world. Despite what Oninotsume wrote, the anecdotal evidence that I've heard from many developers is that they have more money than they know what to do with. And with the games industry eclipsing Hollywood in sales and profitability, this isn't hard to believe. I'm not calling Oninotsume a liar though. Japanese companies typically pay their employees far less than they could get in comparable overseas positions, so I could easily see them making excuses for that. On top of that, we all know that the companies that make the most original, innovative games are the least profitable, and if he works for one of those, than him and his company may very well be telling the bold faced truth (not trying to get in a fight here, Oninotsume -- I personally totally sympathize with your position and knowing what it feels like to see something I've worked hard on and earned next to nothing from become popular while I can't even pay rent -- my point is simply that a lot of game company employees WILL tell, and have told, an exactly opposite story)

And the last point there is the one that I'd like you pirates to consider. You make yourself feel better by sauing that it's not doing any real harm because the game companies are rich and that you wouldn't have bought the game anyway, but when unoriginal, uninspired, cookie cutter franchises and spinoffs are the only games that a developer can make money off of (because they're the only game concepts that the general population -- the population less likely to be familiar with pirating -- has any familiarity with), you have to realize that you're killing the incentive to produce interesting and innovative games by downloading them instead of taking a risk and purchasing a game that you're curious about every once in a while. You may not be strinking a huge blow to the industry on whole, but there ARE deffinately situations where piracy will have a huge effect on the bottom line.

And guys, you need to get it through your heads that being poor is not an excuse for stealing these games.
Hey oninotsume, if the long hours and stress of workiing in the gaming industry are too much for you, you can just get a job flippin burgers at Burger King. theyre always hiring. But if you did that then you wouldnt make enough money to buy videogames so you would have to download them if you wanted to playThis sort of mentality is fundementally flawed. I don't know anyone who loves riding horses but will go out and steal a horse because they can't afford to buy one on their own. And yet, people will gladly do exactly that when it comes to software. That's some very sorry sense of entitlement. When it comes to a hobby, if you can't afford it, that's the end of the story, you need to find another hobby. Especially the pirates among you who do nothing but play games. Buy the games that you truly want and can afford, but there's plenty of worthwhile ways to spend your time otherwise. The best things in life are legitimately free.


I think that everyone just needs to stop complaining about piracy existing and stop trying to make others stop piracy will always exist, there is no way around it you either like it or hate the fact thats all there is to it.Well sorry, but even if Wraggster's a marauding pirate himself, the rules of this site still say no ISO discussion. Firstly, as Wraggster has pointed out on many occasions, homebrew is not about piracy. I know that a lot of people out there pirate, I'm not trying to deny it, nor am I under the delusion that that fact is going to change anytime soon, but this is a HOMEBREW site, not a piracy site, and there are people like me who do come here simply for homebrew and take offense to the implication of "Shhh! Everyone's doing it!". Nope, we're not all doing it, and the fact that this site has a no ISO policy is part of the reason why some of us come here. Keep it to yourself -- this is no more a forum to talk about your ISO usage than it is a forum for intelligent discussion of botany.

At the very least, I think you should have respect for your host (Wraggster's) wishes. If I were him, I'd take each and every pro-ISO post as a personal slap in the face. And Wraggster sounds like a real stand-up guy, I personally wouldn't dream of treating him that way. This is not the place to flaunt and discuss your pirating activities and that's been made ABUNDANTLY clear.

As a side note, bringing up GBA/DS piracy compared to today's games is kind of a faulty comparison. 2D game making technology and methouds really haven't changed much in the last ten years, whereas the technology in todays 3D games is still constantly evolving and getting more complex. You could easily argue that it doesn't cost as much to make a GBA/DS game, because the methouds to do so are so much better documented, and many more people are experienced and competent at making them. If the game's cheaper to make, the developer ends up making a larger profit on each unit sold, and the more profit they make on each legitimate unit sale, the more they can "afford" to loose the profits from someone stealing the product.

MUDD
July 9th, 2006, 14:57
blahh.blahh,blahh

DPyro
July 9th, 2006, 15:58
I don't know anyone who loves riding horses but will go out and steal a horse because they can't afford to buy one on their own. And yet, people will gladly do exactly that when it comes to software

Theres a difference between physical objects and software. With software, anyone can make a copy. Physical objects such as a horse can't be 'cloned' so easily. :rolleyes:

corenskae
July 9th, 2006, 16:41
dagamer you think youre so goddamn cool with your machine translated signature. well guess what youre WRONG. If the psp wasn't so hackable do you think it's sales would even compare to what they are today? bullshit. And as to piracy being the reason games are so expensive? wake up and smell the coffee ffs even if there was no piracy in the world theyd still be expensive and you know why? because idiots like you run out and pay for games that are about as fun as having a brick dropped on your head. I bought a psp to play homebrews and isos. I could care less about sonys financial troubles when they bring out shit like the location free player which is the price of a small yacht.

SSaxdude
July 9th, 2006, 16:57
It's hard not to pirate PSP games because most suck and they are expensive for a handheld game. I was going to buy GTA Liberty City Stories when it first came out but Sony made it only for 2.0 PSPs. So when MPH Gameloader came out, I made a dump of the game, and that's how I became into isos. I probably wouldn't buy that many PSP games anyway (iso loaders or not.) Piracy is another reason why to buy a fast internet connection or more memory in your computer. There are people benefitting off piracy.
BTW: let's have a poll on this subject.


btw, speaking of pirates, is Pirates of the Caribbean 2 any good?:p
Yes, I saw it and I'm also downloading it.

jwilds73
July 9th, 2006, 17:23
UMD movies are a joke. I do not want to watch movies on my PSP. I didn't buy it to watch movies. I bought it for gaming. Also if I even had the desire to watch a movie on the PSP the price of UMD movies keeps me away. The UMD medium is a one trick pony it only works on the psp and has less features then their DVD counterparts. If UMD movie's where $7.99 to $9.99 then I would consider buying them but not at $19.99 to $24.99 no never.

slayer2psp
July 9th, 2006, 19:03
One thing is for sure. Piracy has nothing to do with the cost being charged for games. In Australia, the average AAA PC title costs around 80-90AUD. The PC has plenty of piracy issues. Compare this with the XBOX 360 where there is NO piracy and those games cost 100-110+ AUD. How they justify the ridiculous prices for XBOX 360 games in Australia is beyond me. If they are wondering why the PS2 is still outselling the XBOX 360, it all comes down to the pricing.

What makes the 360 game pricing even more of a joke is when you compare a title like "Prey". Prey ran far smoother and had higher resolution textures in some places on the PC Demo than the 360 Demo I tried, so in some cases, you'll be getting an inferior product for 20+ dollars extra. wow were i live the 360 is the most pirated. ever hear of the firmware hack it takes like 10 mins to do a 360 if you know what to do i have all the 360 games and lets just say they arent from a store. and the pc thing is miss leading to run prey real good on the pc you need a pc with a good video card which cost as much as my 360. Australia
sucks for gaming anyways your damn goverment bans way to many games pgr 2 got banned on the xbox becuse it had some roads from your country in the game. so they thought people would go out and race on those roads and crash or something just sad. becuse of crap like that. id guess Piracy would be very high in Australia since your sad goverment doesnt think a enough of its people not to imatate whats in a game. i could never live there

acn010
July 9th, 2006, 19:24
theres people selling copied games on the streets and police walks around and they don't even care

FullGore
July 9th, 2006, 19:33
I don't think piracy can be problematic. Totally the oposite. Since I can't rent any games at my country, when a game comes out either I REALLY know that the game ain't gonna dissapoint me or I download a pirated version of it just to check it out.
This way is the safest to know what to buy and where not to waste money.
Unfortunately, I've made lots of mistakes in terms of buys. The last one was Monster Hunter for the psp. Imo the game is really mediocre. Tested it and threw it into the box again. Such situations can be easily avoided.

DPyro
July 9th, 2006, 19:36
I don't think piracy can be problematic. Totally the oposite. Since I can't rent any games at my country, when a game comes out either I REALLY know that the game ain't gonna dissapoint me or I download a pirated version of it just to check it out.
This way is the safest to know what to buy and where not to waste money.
Unfortunately, I've made lots of mistakes in terms of buys. The last one was Monster Hunter for the psp. Imo the game is really mediocre. Tested it and threw it into the box again. Such situations can be easily avoided.

Your from Portugal?

FullGore
July 9th, 2006, 19:42
Lol yep. Figures, right? :rolleyes:

damienarcangel
July 9th, 2006, 19:47
I work for a loss prevention department at a retail store and while that has nothing to do with piracy, I would like to offer my input on this situation because it deals with the same type of people that I deal with every day. For this thread I'll call these people "assclowns." I think there is a certain type of person(or maybe its a personality trait), could be white, could be asian, could be black, could be of any age or finanical status. I think these type of people are what are the "big factor" in consoles, not the piracy itself. I for one use my PSP to play Snes, Genesis, Nes games pretty much exclusively. Yah I have a few PSP games, but I would never use it to copy a PSP ISO and play it for free. An assclown would. The reason even use it for emulation is because most of the games for older consoles are not exactly available for sell. Yeah maybe I could go on Ebay and buy a copy of Chrono Trigger for $80 but is that really feasible, even in Sony or Nintendo's eyes? Probably not. I believe piracy is a factor in some cases and in some cases its not. Am I hurting Sony's case by playing Final Fantasy VI on my Snes emulator? Probably not. But is some assclown hurting Sony's case by downloading a copy of Grand Theft Auto LCS and playing it without buying the game? Of course. These assclowns are what we should be worried about being a "big factor" not generalize every person who uses their PSP for something beside playing "Sony-made" software on it. It really works hand-in-hand with alot of the problems us "non-terds" face. I mean think about car insurance. You pay more in car insurance because a group of assclowns have a huge business of purposely causing accidents to line their pockets. Polo shirt? You pay $80 for a Polo shirt instead of $35 because assclowns come into a store and steal half the shirts that Polo makes. So just by making 100 shirts, they probably lose 35-50 of them because some assclown decides he doesn't want to pay for them. So in turn you pay more. In sum I think big companies need to not generalize and focus on these assclowns who are actually costing them money and not force everday people to pay more money for actions that they did not take. But thats just my 2 cents.

SSaxdude
July 9th, 2006, 20:50
There are people who are starving in third world countries yet big companies are complaining that they are losing money. People (like the RIAA) are suing people over piracy when we need to do justice to the real criminals (murders, rapists.)
The world we live in.

damienarcangel
July 9th, 2006, 21:19
Oh yeah. I totally agree with you there. As far as the law goes, they should focus on crimes such as murder and rape. I'm saying these companies should hire people like myself who can prosecute people commiting crimes against them such as piracy. How much would it cost for Sony to hire a team of people to go on the internet. Goto google.com and find sites or programs that offer ISOs or movies and take them out of action? Probably close to nothing in comparison to the money they lose from piracy. But they shouldn't be so anal as to try to take out sites that offer roms that companies can no longer make money off of. I mean honestly how much money is Nintendo going to make off of a sale of a Original NES Super Mario Brothers cartridge? Nothing. What I'm trying to get to is- Is it still piracy if a company isn't making money off of an item anymore?

Ichijoe
July 9th, 2006, 22:00
I mean honestly how much money is Nintendo going to make off of a sale of a Original NES Super Mario Brothers cartridge? Nothing.

I'm sure Nintendo would disagree with you on that. Granted thay probably will never see a dime from oBay. ;)

But, what about there planed 'Live!' System that will let you in an iTunes-esq manner let you D/L and play SNES, Sega & PC-Engine (e.g. Turbografix), on there Wii Console?!? Seems like S0NY™ are not the only Ones' wishing to make some Dosh from emulating there past systems.

And stealing is stealing I could care less if it were written for the Vic20 or the XBOX-360°! The only thing(s), that might have a chance are the Homebrew Games like Calisto. Barring that there not useing the S0NY™ SDK to compile there works.

damienarcangel
July 9th, 2006, 22:26
Yah if Nintendo comes out with some kind of iTunes type system for playing Snes, Nes, etc. games on one of their newer systems, then sure its a big factor. The same goes for PSP and PSX games. I believe if a company is making money off of a certain title, then yes piracy is a factor. Its kind of like if you have a neighbor who had an old drill that he didn't use anymore because he bought a new, better drill. Well you are repairing your roof and you went to his house and stole it.(I've never done this btw, I swear!.) Yeah, defintitely stealing is stealing and its wrong but should be call the cops on you for stealing something he has no use for and isn't using to make money? I don't believe so. Of course you should have asked for it and he definitely has the right to call the cops but whats the point if he's not using it? Maybe he'll want to use it in the future you say? Well ask for it back or something. Of course gaming companies can't just ask for their old roms/isos back but thats the risk they take by my releasing them.

chaos-is-me
July 9th, 2006, 23:16
I don't nessicarily agree with my piracy but I do download mp3's and episodes of South Park! haha.

Anyway, I look at it this way.. In the past if someone purchused a game or film or cd and then their friend borrowed it and watched/played/listened all the way through then that person most likely won't buy the said product. But that has never been illegal.

I apply this to anything i make or do i.e. when my band recorded our first demo I just made up some sleeves and handed them out for free, it's also up for download on our site wheras other local bands seem to think people want to pay for their crap. Everyone likes free stuff!

I have never downloaded an iso for psp but I was tempted the other day when someone told me you can get the new Tekken. Maybe I will go and download it, maybe I won't but either way I will buy it when it comes out in the UK!

Piracy is just one of those things, love it or hate it it won't ever go away.

Ichijoe
July 10th, 2006, 00:44
Yah if Nintendo comes out with some kind of iTunes type system for playing Snes, Nes, etc. games on one of their newer systems, then sure its a big factor. The same goes for PSP and PSX games. I believe if a company is making money off of a certain title, then yes piracy is a factor. Its kind of like if you have a neighbor who had an old drill that he didn't use anymore because he bought a new, better drill. Well you are repairing your roof and you went to his house and stole it.(I've never done this btw, I swear!.) Yeah, defintitely stealing is stealing and its wrong but should be call the cops on you for stealing something he has no use for and isn't using to make money? I don't believe so. Of course you should have asked for it and he definitely has the right to call the cops but whats the point if he's not using it? Maybe he'll want to use it in the future you say? Well ask for it back or something. Of course gaming companies can't just ask for their old roms/isos back but thats the risk they take by my releasing them.

That's funny 'cause I do and would! So you think that it's wrong to swipe a current 'Program' but, if you can not leagly obtain said 'Program' it's ok to swipe it. So by your argument it's ok to 'swipe' Windows 2000 Professional. 'cause nobody uses it / Microsoft don't support it no more. Congratulations by your own argument you just joined your own Assclown Club!

Stealing is Stealing PERIOD! The last I knew Copyrights had a Lifespan of around 99 Years. I'd have yet to see any Program that was no longer any such protections! Given that the Industry is only like what? 30 some odd years old (With Pong)?!

Caelyth
July 10th, 2006, 01:24
Piracy doesn't really hurt gaming consoles because not a lot of people really know about it. The kids that have psp's at my school have never even heard of hombrew except a rare few. The only way homebrew would really hurt the psp is if sony publicaly announced that people were using the psp for homebrew and gave a link to this site. lol.

Voltron
July 10th, 2006, 04:21
ASSCLOWNS

ha ha. That's classic.

Anyway, back to playing my Tekken: Dark Resurrection ISO.

F9zDark
July 10th, 2006, 04:22
First and foremost, I will state the obvious: The more person knows, the higher chance of piracy there will be.

For instance, I can gurantee that most newer computer users do not know how to pirate games, etc.

But there are two things, that I believe, are working against this.

I have seen that as time moves on, people who use computers 'know less' about them, because more and more things become 'one click away'. Growing up with DOS and learning the ways of that have certainly give many people an edge over late bloomers to the computer world. I think that probably a huge number of pirates fall into this category; people growing up with computer systems that required knowledge and know how to operate.

However, while this would be a limiting factor in the growth of hackers and pirates, the accessibility of information on the web, directly combats this. The internet makes available information that would have never been accessible before.

Learning how to pirate software has, thus, become 'one click away'. As computer systems became simpler, the internet began growing exponentially.

Thus, I feel, that there is no way to chart the growth of piracy on any system accurately and attribute a true cause to it.

Now, with that said, I personally believe, that piracy hurts developers, not consoles. When someone pirates a game, who hurts the most? None of the huge corporations who make consoles are feeling the pain as badly as the people who developed the software.

When the company who produced the software ends up the victim of piracy, the developers are the ones who suffer the most; which is sad really, they do the most work to see the game to its completion, and get ****ed the hardest because of piracy. The CEOs and Executives still get to sit in their posh offices, smoking cuban cigars, while they hand out pink slips to the ones who got them there , because of falling profits.

If there is an moral reason not to pirate, it is because hard working individuals like you or I suffer from it the most. Its not like it was back in the day, when pirates actually stole from the rich and affluent.

Sony itself doesn't hurt from piracy, but its always expendable employees do. The ones that actually work hard for Sony's benefit.

BL4Z3D247
July 10th, 2006, 04:35
First and foremost, I will state the obvious: The more person knows, the higher chance of piracy there will be.

For instance, I can gurantee that most newer computer users do not know how to pirate games, etc.

But there are two things, that I believe, are working against this.

I have seen that as time moves on, people who use computers 'know less' about them, because more and more things become 'one click away'. Growing up with DOS and learning the ways of that have certainly give many people an edge over late bloomers to the computer world. I think that probably a huge number of pirates fall into this category; people growing up with computer systems that required knowledge and know how to operate.

However, while this would be a limiting factor in the growth of hackers and pirates, the accessibility of information on the web, directly combats this. The internet makes available information that would have never been accessible before.

Learning how to pirate software has, thus, become 'one click away'. As computer systems became simpler, the internet began growing exponentially.

Thus, I feel, that there is no way to chart the growth of piracy on any system accurately and attribute a true cause to it.

Now, with that said, I personally believe, that piracy hurts developers, not consoles. When someone pirates a game, who hurts the most? None of the huge corporations who make consoles are feeling the pain as badly as the people who developed the software.

When the company who produced the software ends up the victim of piracy, the developers are the ones who suffer the most; which is sad really, they do the most work to see the game to its completion, and get ****ed the hardest because of piracy. The CEOs and Executives still get to sit in their posh offices, smoking cuban cigars, while they hand out pink slips to the ones who got them there , because of falling profits.

If there is an moral reason not to pirate, it is because hard working individuals like you or I suffer from it the most. Its not like it was back in the day, when pirates actually stole from the rich and affluent.

Sony itself doesn't hurt from piracy, but its always expendable employees do. The ones that actually work hard for Sony's benefit.
well said

damienarcangel
July 10th, 2006, 06:45
That's funny 'cause I do and would! So you think that it's wrong to swipe a current 'Program' but, if you can not leagly obtain said 'Program' it's ok to swipe it. So by your argument it's ok to 'swipe' Windows 2000 Professional. 'cause nobody uses it / Microsoft don't support it no more. Congratulations by your own argument you just joined your own Assclown Club!

Stealing is Stealing PERIOD! The last I knew Copyrights had a Lifespan of around 99 Years. I'd have yet to see any Program that was no longer any such protections! Given that the Industry is only like what? 30 some odd years old (With Pong)?!

Ok buddy first off theres no reason to get your G-string in a twist and turn it into a &-string. I mean if you didn't shoot your colon out of your ass by getting so wound up, you came pretty damn close. With that being said, pop a couple of Mydol and chill out. No I'm not saying its "OK" to swipe Windows 2000. I am infact saying that swiping Windows 2000 is not such a "big factor" as say Swiping Windows XP 64-bit. Im saying that companies like Microsoft should put more emphasis on stopping people that swipe Windows XP 64-bit than just trying to get rid of pirating in general. So maybe I did join my own assclown club, thanks for the induction. The whole topic here is- Is piracy a big factor in today's consoles? Not-Is piracy morally or ethically wrong? I think everyone here agrees that its wrong, but just to different extents.

Psyberjock
July 10th, 2006, 10:24
And, Psyberjock is that you in you're avatar?

Of course it is! =)

I was going for a crazy fun-loving look. What do you think?

shinysuitman
July 10th, 2006, 10:37
so does everyone just look the other way when piratinggames from atari and nintendo and sega and SNES... PEOPLE!!! either embrace teh fact that youre a pirater, or stop using emulators. the truth of the matter is that anybody who uses snes or wahtever on their psp is pirating the game at one level or another. the original carts did not come with counter-parts so that you sould hook them up to your pc and rip the software off of the cart. it truely is funny how people despise iso loading adn the such, but gg on the new release of the GBA emu. talk about irony when in most EULA's it talks about how software on the machine is only supposed to be used in a certain way (not a fact to my knowledge... who reads those, but trying to make a point) there cannot be good and bad piracy, just like how there cannot be good and bad killing. its all bad. but if you do it, you should call yourself that. if you lie, youre a liar. if you cheat, youre a cheater. so whats with the grey area with snes or even neogeo vs. psp iso? **** this semantics BS and lets just chill on everyone who has something to put into the hacking of psp or whatever system (sepending on what part of the site youre on)

also, i do agree with an earlier post that dealt with how the little guy always gets it in the end while the presidents and CEOs at the top barely feel a breeze. i feel for you guys. however, if you feel that way about your own company, where is the sence of loyalty towards you or you towards it? my opinion is that if you feel that way about your own job... that you feel like the people you work for are lifeless fat heads that enjoy making profit from blood and sweat of other people... find new employment. it didnt wok for nazi's, saying how they were just following orders, so dont be a part of the problem, be a part of the solution.

if you feel that piracy is a threat to your exsistance as a part of the gaming community, the its time for you to act upon it. its like spanking a kid whe they act out of order. quit developing games and see hwo the consumer likes it. dont give us more, give us less. but idiots still cling to their money like a baby latching onto a tit.

grow up. fight for your side. give em hell.

Psyberjock
July 10th, 2006, 10:39
I don't think piracy can be problematic. Totally the oposite. Since I can't rent any games at my country, when a game comes out either I REALLY know that the game ain't gonna dissapoint me or I download a pirated version of it just to check it out.
This way is the safest to know what to buy and where not to waste money.
Unfortunately, I've made lots of mistakes in terms of buys. The last one was Monster Hunter for the psp. Imo the game is really mediocre. Tested it and threw it into the box again. Such situations can be easily avoided.

I have to disagree with that. I have the Japanese version and I've spent over a hundred hours playing it. Its amazing and the first monster hunter game I've played so far. You just have to invest the time to get past the learning portion of the game. Give it another chance. I also suggest ripping it to your memory stick to reduce your load times. It makes a huge difference.

Psyberjock
July 10th, 2006, 10:47
Yeah maybe I could go on Ebay and buy a copy of Chrono Trigger for $80 but is that really feasible, even in Sony or Nintendo's eyes? Probably not. I believe piracy is a factor in some cases and in some cases its not. Am I hurting Sony's case by playing Final Fantasy VI on my Snes emulator? Probably not. But is some assclown hurting Sony's case by downloading a copy of Grand Theft Auto LCS and playing it without buying the game? Of course. These assclowns are what we should be worried about being a "big factor" not generalize every person who uses their PSP for something beside playing "Sony-made" software on it.

In Nintendo's eyes you're the biggest "assclown" of them all. You steal their game without even buying their console. Not only are you stealing their licensed game, you're not even paying for their hardware to play the stolen game.

Just because you try to keep people from stealing stuff from Wal-Mart all day does not make you an angel. Besides that, your experience in loss prevention can hardly be compared to internet piracy. People who download something are not neccessarily the same people who steal things from Wal-Mart.

Think about your arguments a little more then come back to us. You can't confess to and condemn piracy in the same message. That's a very "assclown" thing to do.

Ichijoe
July 10th, 2006, 15:28
In Nintendo's eyes you're the biggest "assclown" of them all. You steal their game without even buying their console. Not only are you stealing their licensed game, you're not even paying for their hardware to play the stolen game.

Just because you try to keep people from stealing stuff from Wal-Mart all day does not make you an angel. Besides that, your experience in loss prevention can hardly be compared to internet piracy. People who download something are not neccessarily the same people who steal things from Wal-Mart.

Think about your arguments a little more then come back to us. You can't confess to and condemn piracy in the same message. That's a very "assclown" thing to do.


That a pure +1 if I ever saw One!

MUDD
July 10th, 2006, 17:18
shinysuitman makes a good point ,this site and most ppl here have emus and the roms to go with them but wont call it piracy ,when it totally is.so **** it who cares ,in this forum it really dont matter

i was on gamespot and they have a link to a download site for everything psp ,are these sites legal? and if not then please explain why there linked tp piracy on what appears could be on a wide scale. i was just wondering about this .

now that im looking around about the subject instead of just being a part of it ,i have to say i dont thnk piracy is controlled by the pirate ,its controlled by the corp yes men .i think sony knew it would be the best and greatest toy in the world for allot of ppl and are more than happy with the way things are going.

i know nothing is as it seems in life and you really have to take a big picture and think for yourself .you really have to be in your later years or really smart ,im just old (lol).
.im a pirate and im proud .i wasnt like this untill this post was started now i cant belive i cared at all or felt bad at times ,but not anymore so TY dcemu .

Dj.PsP
July 10th, 2006, 17:34
Piracy is a big deal. It's not like if there was no piracy that game prices would be reduced, you'd be naive to believe game companies would sell games for less than they can get away. However, piracy is unlawful. Does it make sense to try out an iso of a game to see if you like it and subsequently buy it? Maybe. Still wrong though.

nevermind..

shinysuitman
July 10th, 2006, 18:57
.im a pirate and im proud .i wasnt like this untill this post was started now i cant belive i cared at all or felt bad at times ,but not anymore so TY dcemu .

yeah that is something i forgot to mention. thank you very much DCEMU:) this really has been a place that i can go and really fully explre the hardware and software of my psp with the help of the rest of the community. it has always been a pleasure coming to this site.:cool:

damienarcangel
July 10th, 2006, 19:23
In Nintendo's eyes you're the biggest "assclown" of them all. You steal their game without even buying their console. Not only are you stealing their licensed game, you're not even paying for their hardware to play the stolen game.

Just because you try to keep people from stealing stuff from Wal-Mart all day does not make you an angel. Besides that, your experience in loss prevention can hardly be compared to internet piracy. People who download something are not neccessarily the same people who steal things from Wal-Mart.

Think about your arguments a little more then come back to us. You can't confess to and condemn piracy in the same message. That's a very "assclown" thing to do.

Well I guess its time to one-up you like I did that other kid. For one thing I don't work at Wally World. Keep guessing. And my entire point is exactly what you said. The same people aren't stealing from Wal-Mart that download games. I'm saying that companies shouldn't spend so much of their man hours on shutting down rom sites and stuff as they do on sites that offer items that they are currently making money off of. Thats all. Maybe you only read my first post, then had to so impregnate your sister or whatever. If so, hey thats all you buddy, I'm not gonna rag on your heritage. In my first post I stated that these "certain types of pirates" are what companies should focus on, not pirating in general. How does Microsoft lose money when someone borrows his buddies Windows 98 software to put on an older computer? I tell you how, they don't. But if someone goes and steals Windows XP 64-bit and uses it on their home computer. Then yes Microsoft is losing money and should actively pursue situations. I'm not saying Im an angel either bro. If you check my login name its Damien Arcangel which = Damien(the evil kid on the Omen movies which is the son of the devil) and Arcangel(I kind took out the "h" which would make it Archangel which = anti angel) So don't just look at 3 words of a post and part of my name and then get on here and talk crap cuz your just making yourself look like an inbred jackass. So in turn I'm gonna drop down to your level and say your family multiplies by "keepin it in the family" even though I don't know you or your family.

Ichijoe
July 10th, 2006, 22:39
Well I guess its time to one-up you like I did that other kid. For one thing I don't work at Wally World. Keep guessing. And my entire point is exactly what you said. The same people aren't stealing from Wal-Mart that download games. I'm saying that companies shouldn't spend so much of their man hours on shutting down rom sites and stuff as they do on sites that offer items that they are currently making money off of. Thats all. Maybe you only read my first post, then had to so impregnate your sister or whatever. If so, hey thats all you buddy, I'm not gonna rag on your heritage. In my first post I stated that these "certain types of pirates" are what companies should focus on, not pirating in general. How does Microsoft lose money when someone borrows his buddies Windows 98 software to put on an older computer? I tell you how, they don't. But if someone goes and steals Windows XP 64-bit and uses it on their home computer. Then yes Microsoft is losing money and should actively pursue situations. I'm not saying Im an angel either bro. If you check my login name its Damien Arcangel which = Damien(the evil kid on the Omen movies which is the son of the devil) and Arcangel(I kind took out the "h" which would make it Archangel which = anti angel) So don't just look at 3 words of a post and part of my name and then get on here and talk crap cuz your just making yourself look like an inbred jackass. So in turn I'm gonna drop down to your level and say your family multiplies by "keepin it in the family" even though I don't know you or your family.

If no One else will say this to you, then I will!

It's probably for the best if you got over youself!
BTW: If 'borrowing' a cup'a 98SE wasn't such a big deal then we wouldn't have had to Activate \ install WGA Software now would we?

But, like I said you need to get over youself and fast. Please BY GOD LEAVE YOUR SISTER ALONE! Just couse you think it ok, it doesn't mean the rest of us do!!

Ichijoe
July 11th, 2006, 00:19
BTW: just in case anyone missed it, Devhook has been updateded to v0.43 and can now run Firmware v2.60. Preety soon we may even be able to run v2.71 too!

Which will be cool in so far as beeing able to D/L and play the Loco Roco Demo w/requiers you to update to 2.71 first!

Psyberjock
July 11th, 2006, 14:20
Well I guess its time to one-up you like I did that other kid. For one thing I don't work at Wally World. Keep guessing. And my entire point is exactly what you said. The same people aren't stealing from Wal-Mart that download games. I'm saying that companies shouldn't spend so much of their man hours on shutting down rom sites and stuff as they do on sites that offer items that they are currently making money off of. Thats all. Maybe you only read my first post, then had to so impregnate your sister or whatever. If so, hey thats all you buddy, I'm not gonna rag on your heritage. In my first post I stated that these "certain types of pirates" are what companies should focus on, not pirating in general. How does Microsoft lose money when someone borrows his buddies Windows 98 software to put on an older computer? I tell you how, they don't. But if someone goes and steals Windows XP 64-bit and uses it on their home computer. Then yes Microsoft is losing money and should actively pursue situations. I'm not saying Im an angel either bro. If you check my login name its Damien Arcangel which = Damien(the evil kid on the Omen movies which is the son of the devil) and Arcangel(I kind took out the "h" which would make it Archangel which = anti angel) So don't just look at 3 words of a post and part of my name and then get on here and talk crap cuz your just making yourself look like an inbred jackass. So in turn I'm gonna drop down to your level and say your family multiplies by "keepin it in the family" even though I don't know you or your family.

I'm sorry you misunderstood me. Somehow you thought I care about the history of your nick. LOL!

My reply was based on things that you posted. Now you reply to my post and start saying that I commit incest? You're just adding in lies? Seriously. You should think about that and try to understand that you have totally discredited yourself.

As for your Windows 98SE comment. If you ask Microsoft, they will tell you that yes, they care. In their eyes your buddy has to use some type of OS and if he is the type that borrows a 98SE CD he's probably not the type to use LINUX. Therefore that's a lost sale on an OS. You can still buy 98SE if you look around hard enough, but I'm sure MS wouldn't mind if he bought something newer.

Now about rom sites being shut down. If a company tries to stop the pirating of things that you like to steal that's bad, but if they try to stop the pirating of something you don't like, that's ok. Is that what you're trying to say?

damienarcangel
July 11th, 2006, 21:39
I'm sorry you misunderstood me. Somehow you thought I care about the history of your nick. LOL!

My reply was based on things that you posted. Now you reply to my post and start saying that I commit incest? You're just adding in lies? Seriously. You should think about that and try to understand that you have totally discredited yourself.

As for your Windows 98SE comment. If you ask Microsoft, they will tell you that yes, they care. In their eyes your buddy has to use some type of OS and if he is the type that borrows a 98SE CD he's probably not the type to use LINUX. Therefore that's a lost sale on an OS. You can still buy 98SE if you look around hard enough, but I'm sure MS wouldn't mind if he bought something newer.

Now about rom sites being shut down. If a company tries to stop the pirating of things that you like to steal that's bad, but if they try to stop the pirating of something you don't like, that's ok. Is that what you're trying to say?

Nope thats not what I'm tryin to say. What I am trying to say is this and this only- Companies like Microsoft should look more into people pirating items that they are currently or in future making money off of instead of being so general in the pirating that they try to stop. And I'm also saying the exact same thing you are. Yes they do care if my buddy borrows a Windows 98 disk because his computer is older and can't handle anything else lets not get into technics, lets just say he has a crappy computer that's power is generated by a gerbil running on a wheel.) With that being said, Yes Microsoft does care(which is what you said and I am agreeing with you) if he uses someones else's Windows 98 disk, which I would consider a type of pirating, which is what's being discussed on this board "Is Piracy a Big Factor in Todays Consoles". Now what I am further stating is that if they wouldn't worry about this buddy "pirating" Windows 98 and worry more about someone who s pirating Windows XP 64-bit then maybe Piracy wouldn't be such a big factor in today's consoles, thats all. And furthermore I am also stating that I believe certain types of piracy is a factor in todays consoles. PSP ISOs certainly is beacuse someone didn't buy that game, the publisher is losing a sale and therefore being hurt. But how is Taxan being so completly demolished if I goto some rom site and download a Low G Man rom and play it on my PSP with my NES emulator when its pretty tough to even find the game in its original form short of going on Ebay and paying $200 just to play it on a NES that you can barely get to work because the power light keeps flashing off and on when you put a game in it?

damienarcangel
July 11th, 2006, 21:48
If no One else will say this to you, then I will!

It's probably for the best if you got over youself!
BTW: If 'borrowing' a cup'a 98SE wasn't such a big deal then we wouldn't have had to Activate \ install WGA Software now would we?

But, like I said you need to get over youself and fast. Please BY GOD LEAVE YOUR SISTER ALONE! Just couse you think it ok, it doesn't mean the rest of us do!!

No one else will say it to me because A- No one knows what your talking about because your lacking a English 101 class severely. I never said anything about borrowing any cups or even Windows 98SE, I said Windows 98. And "couse?" I don't even know if thats a word. I'll let you slide on the youself thing cuz that could have been a typo. and B- I hopefully make a pretty good argument or C- No one really cares. I'm gonna go with "C" because if I'm not making a good argument, its all good because this board is about opinions, its not a O.J. Simpson Jury Trial.

jman420
July 13th, 2006, 02:32
I would have to say that the only system that is regularly pirated is the Sony PSP, because Sony has kept the Homebrew scene on 1.5 firmware, there has never been a rectification of the ability to use ISO's (easily downloaded) on their PSP's
If Sony were to make a new firmware with the ability to play homebrew games, but without the ability to use ISO's, then they'd probobly stop someone.
But piracy is just so simple on a PSP, every other new system I can think of is alot more complicated to pirate on, system 1.0 XBOX had the softmod, PS1-PS2 can use breaker pro, but all others require a modchip, and many people dont mod their xbox's and ps2's (plus the ISO's are just hard to find).

nathan1974au
July 25th, 2006, 00:18
why are pirates pirates because they "RRRRR"

I'm an avid pirate since the commodore 64 days
I've pirated the amiga, atari st, super nintendo, playstation 1 + 2 , pc games, dvd's, video's,gameboy color, gameboy advance, and now nintendo ds for fun what the hey!!!!

all for fun and to be able to experience the full spectrum of gaming and enjoyment.
what's the use of having one game in your collection that cost you $80, only to sell it after you have had enough of it only getting $5 back
what a waste of money better to pirate it get it for free.

90% of pirates don't sell games for money only to copy them for there self gain. having 103 pirate games means you have $10,000.00+ of games
for free but they are worth nothing.