Why the PSP scene isn't as active as it used to be and why it wont last.

[Wally]

This subject is probably going to be important for those who wish to have a PSP scene in the future. Coders are disappearing by the drop of a pin and some never returning, some remaining anonymous (Coder of PS1P) or others coming back with big surprise releases also we could have had a nice Dos emulator by now or even some stunning applications.

The PSP scene has collapsed over the last 6 months, probably due to:
a) People nagging coders for features that arent being concentrated on. Im pretty sure coders get pissed off over silly little comments such as "Oh add custom controls and make the emulator faster". Im sure strmnNrmn would have got frustrated with the amount of questions asking the same thing. I am not vouching that StrmnNrmn is going to continue Daedalus but he may come back in the future with a working emulator, although I still haven't received any replies to emails (this is another example)

b) People faking to make new additions to emulators, faking down-graders people like Shifty, PSDonkey, the fake TA-082 Downgrade team etc are probably the main problem here. Many coders put so much hard work into an program, then these people come along and say "OMFG this emulator is full speed" , "OMFG this downgrades TA-082" then usually it makes a PSP a brick or do something stupid and then all the blame is usually diverted back to someone else who made the original product (If there is one).

c) Abuse to developers, again another main concern. Coders are here voluntarily, they are not making any money and its costing THEM for power, computer, operating system, time. The amount of time coders spend producing a program for free is overwhelming. Now some people think that even though a coder spends over 50 hours making something for us for FREE they can say "Oh your program sucks, add more features" or "You suck dont bother downloading this people" would make the coder pretty upset or angry, give or take they continue their work and it ends up being the best program out on the PSP and yet people still abuse the coder.

d) Other coders taking source from another project where coder has specifically stated that "source can be updated but with my permission".
I personally dont have any problem with this but coders may, with gpSP Exophase has stated in his readme in black and white "Frankly, I'm tired of my emulator being hacked on by other people, and if it doesn't stop I'm going to make this project closed source." This is not a good sign, coders like Exophase work long and hard on something and other people dont follow their criteria and then claim full points. As the 'coder' for Spiff Up, some people think im a super coder like StrmnNrmn. Im not, I only do minor modifications to keep this project alive, That is all.

e) More useless LUA programs than useful C programs. Im not going to blame any LUA scripter as most lua scripts are good and prove useful to the scene however you might notice that I am calling LUA a script because all LUA is doing is computing an automated series of instructions carried out in a specific order. (Oxford, Apple Computer) and code is computing program instructions <snipped> (Oxford, Apple Computer) or put it this way you can script a play but you cant code a play because nobody except the writer would know what to do.
Sometimes I dont think LUA is used to its full extent however there are some great projects like Linken's Quest, Mcdonalds drive thru and of course those unique games / applications which are useful.

f) Too much hacking than actual coding, I don't know why but many coders are concentrating on hacking the latest firmware. This does seem a challenge but please we need Games, Emulators, Applications for those firmwares that are hacked already. I don't see why people other than Dark-Alex, n00bz, Booster and their teams (If i have missed others, I apologize) should be bothering with hacking the later firmwares. Some people tend to find faults by stumbling over them and later they are converted into a hell of an exploit and downgraders or eloaders are made.

g) Coders deserve a break every so often, give or take. People shouldn't push at coders via email / IM to release the latest version of their emulator / Application. Coders are also human, they get tired and have to eat also have extended holidays. There really isn't any point emailing the coder to ask them to come back, they will come back at their own will, there is also the issue of over posting when coders release a product. This is good for some sites however the coder might have to skim through all the posts finding a question that needs answering or finding a 'tip' to enhance the emulator.


So come on people, pull your socks up. Pay some respect to those whom are providing us with a service free of charge, respect those in a way that they feel welcomed but not threatened. I expect people to be patient, friendly, happy with what the programmer is currently doing, make the programmer feel welcome and cared for, nothing opposite and hopefully the scene will come back to have lots more programs etc.


Sincerely Wally



P.S I havent heard or seen the coders in this list active for quite some time, this is probably due to neglect at forums. Coders if you are on this list and are available, it would be nice to post what is causing you not to return to this scene. Makes me wonder if they are just waiting for competitions. Dcemu you are usually pretty good :)




Chris Swindle - Coder for SMSPlus
McZonk - Team Emergency Exit
StrmnNrmn - Coder of Daedalus
71M - Coder of Trig Wars
Garak - Coder of Mega Mart
AnonymousTipster - Coder of Throttle X
Froggie PRoductions - Coder of R-Gear / Pang
mATkEUpON - Coder of SmashGP
Lac - Coder of SnesTyl
CrazyC - Coder of Dosbox
and many other important figures have left or gone in hiding

[SSaxdude]

I think the PSP homebrew scene is a bit quieter now, but most everything we need we already have.

Less than a year ago, the PSP homebrew scene was split into two groups: those with 1.5, and those who upgraded to 2.0+ for all the new games and internet browser. Now us 1.5 users can do everything they can (and more) thanks to Dev Hook. If Dev Hook was never made, I believe the PSP homebrew scene would have died due to all the features that us 1.5 users would never have.

We also have most every popular gaming system emulated on the PSP. A year ago the PSP could emulate SNES and Genesis good, but slow and buggy.

Most every PSP can be downgraded, or have the same abilities of 1.5. The 2.5/2.6 downgrader is less than 6 months old. We were able to downgrade 2.71 in under three months of it being released. Even people with the dreaded TA-082 can emulate 1.5 if they have a 2.71.

I (including everyone else) is mad about the TA-082 downgrader hoax. But we should also remember stuff like Donkey 64 (well that was more of a joke.) Numerous fake downgraders have been made or rumored about. It's something we will have to live with.

The PSP homebrew scene has much life left in it. In fact, I believe the scene will gain more support after Sony dumps the PSP and stops blocking exploits. Everyone, be patcient. That's what we've had to do for a while.

[gunntims0103]

e) More useless LUA programs than useful C programs. Im not going to blame any LUA scripter as most lua scripts are good and prove useful to the scene however you might notice that I am calling LUA a script because all LUA is doing is computing an automated series of instructions carried out in a specific order. (Oxford, Apple Computer) and code is computing program instructions <snipped> (Oxford, Apple Computer) or put it this way you can script a play but you cant code a play because nobody except the writer would know what to do.
Sometimes I dont think LUA is used to its full extent.

Yea LUA isnt always used to its full extent as its a very powerful "scripting" language. The most whole and well polished games iv seen for LUA are Druglord by JC (minor adjustments by myself). Macdonalds serve and go by sausanator. I wonder why LUA developers call the language LUA the programming language, when its really a scripting language.

I love the LUA language as its my primary language that i "script" code in....


You put out really valid pionts about how the psp homebrew community is collapsing in on its self, as iv fallen victim in the past to asking coders to update there releases an such like on zx-81 :p. All that has to stop.

As i know first hand that working on a project is alot of work and really dont want to be asked about various things that are self explanatory......

Great Read wally

[ExcruciationX]

Exellent article, Wally!

I really have no objections to it, so I won't say anything.

[turtleguy101]

yeah thats really good. people do need to stop nagging coders about stupid things! look at strmnNrmn's blog. There are like 100's of comments over "the emulator doesnt have sound" "the emulator is too slow" "the emulator doesnt play my favorite game" "please make it better"

[splodger15]

a) People nagging coders for features that arent being concentrated on. Im pretty sure coders get pissed off over silly little comments such as "Oh add custom controls and make the emulator faster". Im sure strmnNrmn would have got frustrated with the amount of questions asking the same thing. I am not vouching that StrmnNrmn is going to continue Daedalus but he may come back in the future with a working emulator, although I still haven't received any replies to emails (this is another example)

^ ^
I have not had this personally but i have seen it happen

b) People faking to make new additions to emulators, faking down-graders people like Shifty, PSDonkey, the fake TA-082 Downgrade team etc are probably the main problem here. Many coders put so much hard work into an program, then these people come along and say "OMFG this emulator is full speed" , "OMFG this downgrades TA-082" then usually it makes a PSP a brick or do something stupid and then all the blame is usually diverted back to someone else who made the original product (If there is one).

^ ^
This is a definite what destroys the PSP scene. Its a shame to see people lie like that why cant they just say the truth




f) Too much hacking than actual coding, I don't know why but many coders are concentrating on hacking the latest firmware. This does seem a challenge but please we need Games, Emulators, Applications for those firmwares that are hacked already. I don't see why people other than Dark-Alex, n00bz, Booster and their teams (If i have missed others, I apologize) should be bothering with hacking the later firmwares. Some people tend to find faults by stumbling over them and later they are converted into a hell of an exploit and downgraders or eloaders are made.

^ ^
I have nothing wrong with the actual hacking going on but as you said Wally there is alot of hacking going on



g) Coders deserve a break every so often, give or take. People shouldn't push at coders via email / IM to release the latest version of their emulator / Application. Coders are also human, they get tired and have to eat also have extended holidays. There really isn't any point emailing the coder to ask them to come back, they will come back at their own will, there is also the issue of over posting when coders release a product. This is good for some sites however the coder might have to skim through all the posts finding a question that needs answering or finding a 'tip' to enhance the emulator.

^ ^
I 100% agree with this article. The reason being is that Coders also have their own life's as well.They need breaks in a while they are not machines they are human



And for the people who say the Emulators and games that released are pointless and useless.(You know who you are). Could you do better than the actual coder did.If you CAN'T then do NOT post saying how it is useless or pointless in the first place.

[gdf]

very good wally. i agree with prety much everything you said, (though keep in mind there will aways be lull periods.) i just hope that a lot of the coders return. people give them too much hastle but to get the best possible app/game/emu/whatever the moaners should shut up and let the coders get on with it as they know what's best and it's their project. so people, shut it or risk the scene dying.

[C0R3F1GHT3R]

yea it is going to crash and burn due to un-greatful noobs who dont know anything about programs or coding and expect coders to do months of coding and research in a day. I focus on the big things. So what if an emu doesn't have sound or its slow, but its still there, u can still see that there is potential. People think of these online programming groups as big organizations or something i guess with all the time to just program... Most of these coders have families, and another job to support their hobby. They dont even get paid for this stuff and noobs still whine. These people just need a swift slap on the face every time they post a complaint with no solution.

[Baboon]

Why the PSP scene isn’t as active as it used to be and why it wont last?

...er? ...I would say things have slowed a little because most things have now already been done/emulated, but I wouldn’t say the PSP scene is not going to last? ...just look at the Dreamcast and how thats still going!

I think we are very luck to have all of the great homebrew and emulators that we’ve already got.

There’s many projects that are still going strong though:

Exophase is still updating his super GBA emu (even though there has been a load of muppets disrespecting him).

NJ is still beavering away with his emu’s, and who knows what the future will bring with this coding legend. ...plus we’ve got MikeDX looking into bringing us all mutliplayer goodness for these arcade emu’s.

PSPUAE is still very much alive and kicking. Horrace, Fol and Ric are on the case with this fantastic Amiga emulator, and we keep getting regular updates!

ZX81 seems to churn out and produce a new emulator every other week! lol

Devhook is still emulating all of the newest firmwares etc. Admittedly DA has gone quite, but we are still seeing updates giving us the ability to play all the newest games.


And lets not forget all at Noobz, all of the PS1 emus, Zion, etc etc all regularly contributing to the scene. :)

I know there have been quite a few coders disappearing from the scene (for me StrmnNrmn being the biggest loss so far), but I would hardly say everything is dieing... far from it! I guess only time will tell though?

[tsurumaru]

I've personally always thought that as each major firmware revision is exploited there is an associated influx of newbies to deal with and this could be a reason.

ie as the PSP becomes more mainstream those that are currently stuck with fw 2.81 and above can only be told one thing, ie "you can't run homebrew on your PSP".
If/when a 2.81 downgrade is found you will have a whole flood of newbies having access to the delights of 2.71SE etc and a whole glut of questions that have been answered a million times already. Along with a herd of newbies demanding new functionalities and changes to suit their needs. Usually along with that you get attention seekers who are responsible for the "fakes" we see before the scene calms down again , so the process is almost cyclical.
Unfortunately as the PSP installed userbase increases you will see more and more people drawn to the homebrew sites and each cycle above will include more and more people.....

Although it sounds harsh having read some of the topics that devs and coders have frequented I do feel they need to have newbie questions filtered out. Perhaps for example you can't PM a coder or dev until you have over 50 (moderated) posts and we could think of a way of policing posters (especially those that are only posting for the first few times) who ask for help in non help forums or topics.

Any thoughts anyone?

[//R]

It's easy to blame (and in all fairness, many points are true), but I think a large proportion of coders just move on.

It's natural and it happens in every subject, in every context. When something is new, there is a huge enthusiasm to do new things. The PSP has pretty much had it's booming period - most things that needed to be done are done (to some extent).

Coders eventually get bored updating the same thing, constantly trying to achieve perfection. It becomes more of a chore than a passion.

At this point, it would be better for them to pass the project on to capable hands (if any) instead of walking away, as a new coder is not going to try and start from scratch on a similar app, as they would only get flamed "Why bother? XYZ has already done that".

People always want more, too. Thats the killer. A new piece of software is mentioned - people drool at the mouth at the thought of it. They wait, they get over-excited. Eventually they get it, and it's fun for a bit, then they want something new. Repeat indefinately.

Just accept that the scene will never be as booming. Some individuals will stick with it and continue to stay up-to-date and improve, others will not. No point worrying about the people who don't. Just feel lucky you have all the stuff you need as it is :¬)

[Zion]

e) More useless LUA programs than useful C programs. Im not going to blame any LUA scripter as most lua scripts are good and prove useful to the scene however you might notice that I am calling LUA a script because all LUA is doing is computing an automated series of instructions carried out in a specific order. (Oxford, Apple Computer) and code is computing program instructions <snipped> (Oxford, Apple Computer) or put it this way you can script a play but you cant code a play because nobody except the writer would know what to do.
Sometimes I dont think LUA is used to its full extent.

That feels like a bit of a kick in the teeth wally :(

so all the nights i didnt go to bed and weeks and weeks i spent making stuff like worms, linkens quest among others were "useless"

youve made one coder (myself) feel like leaving the scene by those comments, while your trying to get coders back though them.....contradiction there..........that comment isnt nice :(

[splodger15]

I dont find it a chore updating my games.Somedays when i come home from school and i am in a bad mood i cant be bothered to code anything as i am not in the mood but when i have good days i will get alot done.

But i dont get bored updating my games i really enjoy it i like it as a hobby


Not everyone knows how to code C++ thats why i never did it but once i have finished Lua i will start C++

[gunntims0103]

But i dont get bored updating my games i really enjoy it i like it as a hobby

Not everyone knows how to code C++ thats why i never did it but once i have finished Lua i will start C++

I love helping you splonger15 :thumbup:

The best thing to do is just get a working compiler first on your pc. I just got mines working about a week ago. I know a little C++ but not enough for anything "special". Im hoping after i have all my LUA projects finalized to start coding and learning C++.

Again the reason that I feel LUA has gotten a bad name for being primitive and not very accepted in the homebrew community is because there are so many "not so great" lua apps and games that are left unfinished or arnt even being worked on

Like quzar said, "there are a million rock,paper,sizzors being released a day in lua".

[Wally]

First of all I apologise to Zion for the mishap i had with lua. Correction has been made, Zion's projects were originally credited but of course i had to rewrite that section.

Secondly Tsurumaru, I doubt having some sort of system where 50 posts means that people can only PM coders etc would do good. In fact in many opinions it would make spamming popular..

LUA itself isnt a bad idea, its just that not many people put much effort into their end products. Projects like Linken's Quest or MCdonalds drive thru have proven that LUA is indeed powerful but about 10:4000 people have shown this.

[tsurumaru]

Tsurumaru, I doubt having some sort of system where 50 posts means that people can only PM coders etc would do good. In fact in many opinions it would make spamming popular..

Yes I should have qualified my initial statement by saying that this should be combined with a moderator crackdown, but obviously this depends on the availability of moderators and makes their job's harder...

I can't see a way around it personally...... :(

[gdf]

hold on, has strmnnrmn actually left yet? if so: noooo! I know noobs are annoying but i was one when i joined here (and probably still am!). there is no way round the problem and wally's right it would lead to mass spamming. also there are some people here with loads of post that are regularly ignorant and put piles of stupid crap in their posts. i remember dejkirkby being called an idiot by one of these people recently!

[dejkirkby]

i remember dejkirkby being called an idiot by one of these people recently!

It's not worth the hassle to help people. So I ain't gonna bother anymore.

[gdf]

well done man. hope you dont stop helping my good self lol! at least you get respect from everyone else.

[dejkirkby]

well done man. hope you dont stop helping my good self lol! at least you get respect from everyone else.

The only people I will offer advice to is a very select few. Over the past few weeks, I have been subjected to flame after flame. I don't need to take it. gdf, I'd always help you.

[Tetris999]

All scenes die thats the way it goes

this one will die eventually

[splodger15]

^ ^
Wrong dreamcast seems to be going well

[Baboon]

Well in the past week weve had quite a few new releases: NJ's updated all of his emu's source, 3.02 OE, PSP iR Shell 3.1, the 2.80 kernel mode (proof of concept) exploit, gpsp 0.9 etc ...hardly a sign of the scene thats dead! lol

[Napalm-Death]

The sad thing about people that need help is that they're too damn lazy to just do a simple search.

[dejkirkby]

The sad thing about people that need help is that they're too damn lazy to just do a simple search.

That's not always true.

[Napalm-Death]

Sorry, I didn't mean to say that about everyone that needed help, just a percentage seeing as how people ask how to downgrade, if they can downgrade, how to install x homebrew, etc.

[F9zDark]

I have been holding off on posting in this thread, mainly because I have been too lazy. But aside from that, I have also been too busy.

And that leads directly to my point. Not that all coders are college students (many of them aren't) but for those who are, the past 2 weeks has meant finals. On top of that, its also the holiday season, which people are busy buying presents, making arrangements for heading home, visiting family, etc.

Honestly, I feel this post is rather premature. Yes there has been a decline in the scene as of late. We have lost/not heard from a few titular coders. But is the scene nearing death? Hardly.

In fact, right now the scene has been rather busy, with the frontpage, as of this moment, consisting more of homebrew/hacking than of "Hardware Sales" and other BS topics that I care little about.

As well, hacking is important to the scene. The more PSPs that gain the ability to play homebrew, the more populated the scene will become, thus allowing more coders to trickle down the ranks. Simply because a person owns a 2.8 PSP or a TA-082 PSP doesn't mean they can't code in C or Lua, which, once they have kernel access or can downgrade, they can effeciently begin work on homebrew.

All the fakers out there certainly take its toll on the community, but the scene is far from dying. Its merely experiencing the typical holiday slow down.

[scottyboynow]

And Sony making gameboots Illegal.

[F9zDark]

And Sony making gameboots Illegal.

It wasn't Sony who made them illegal, it was the assholes who stole the software and subsequent license that went with releasing said gameboots.

Sony may not like piracy of their games, but they would have a damn good court case in shutting down all homebrew sites for actively releasing items that were made with software that was stolen directly from Sony themself...

[Wally]

Wow the scene has boosted ever since i posted this.. although i doubt i did anything to make it boost lol

[kharaboudjan]

yeah, the ps1 emu really made the psp :D

so many games to play that i have missed.. its FANTASTIC :)

this is what we all have been waitning for and now it is here, enjoy the psp-lifestyle ;)

[jon_boy_uk]

I completely agree with you. I personally think being able to play PSX games using your PSP is a killer app.

I'm on my second PSP now. My first I downgraded to 1.5 and the homebrew scene was bursting with new innovations. The one thing I always wanted for a PSP was the ablility to play the Final Fantasy games (mostly VII, VIII & IX). Seeing that it wasn't going to happen I sold it.

Now I've bought a new one because of the PS3's ability to stream selected PSX games to the PSP. To my amazement, DAX has given us 3.03OE-A and we can just use popstation and play these old, yet excellent games for free. Presumably this is alright because I legally own every PSX game I'm ripping?

For me the scene is just kicking off!

I cannot thank these amazing coders for all the efforts they have put into the PSP to date. All the people Wally previously mentioned, (and the ones he forgot!).

Thanks everyone!!!

[SSaxdude]

We now have fullspeed PSX emulation, what more could you want? People would have been drooling at this had it been a year ago. Let's be thankful for the coders (hence something in my sig) and what they have given us. The PSP in general would be nothing without the coders.

jon_boy_uk: ripping your PSX games is legal, and nice sig

[gunntims0103]

I personally think being able to play PSX games using your PSP is a killer app.

Its not a app, its a emulator/interpretor that is within the firmware that enables emulation of ps1 games via the psp.


For me the scene is just kicking off!

The scene's been off and going for a while now. Theres been so many acheivements on the psp before the firmware ps1 emulation enabler even came out. Namely the cps2 and neogeo MVS emualtor by NJ. I do agree however that the custom firmware by Dark_Alex is one of the biggest things to ever happen to the scene since e-loader was first created by Fanjita.


We now have fullspeed PSX emulation, what more could you want? People would have been drooling at this had it been a year ago. Let's be thankful for the coders (hence something in my sig) and what they have given us. The PSP in general would be nothing without the coders.

I do agree that we must give a load of thanks to the coders without homebrew would not be possible (along with a big hand for Dark_Alex), But you have to give thanks to Sony as well thou we all hate to admit it there the ones that truely made ps1 emulation on the psp possible and i highly dout a coder could have done it on there own......

[jon_boy_uk]

Apologies gunntims0103, I realise 'killer app' was out of context when I sent it. I know it's an emu/int within the firmware, but it's more a figure of speech rather than a literal statment!! I heard an M$ rep use it to describe the Xbox 360 webcam once.

Aside from that - yes you're right the scene has been off for well over a year now, i just said 'for me' as in all i really wanted was psx emulation :o)

I'm really glad to hear ripping my PSX games is legal! I thought as much, but I just wanted to check :thumbup:

So then, how long till I can play FFX on it? J/K!

[gunntims0103]

Apologies gunntims0103, I realise 'killer app' was out of context when I sent it. I know it's an emu/int within the firmware, but it's more a figure of speech rather than a literal statment!! I heard an M$ rep use it to describe the Xbox 360 webcam once.

no harm done :p

I myself am hoping for a n64 emulator to be created for the psp. I don't think it will happen because we have so many unappreciative users who harrass the coder with a million questions as im sure its happened to sttrrnnmm as well as other such as exophase, zx-81, and even Dark_Alex.

There are many great members thru-out the psp scene, but some are out to ruin it im affraid......

But as it stands n64 is the last thing to be done, strrrnnmm gotten close, but not perfect....

[jon_boy_uk]

How I would love to play Golden Eye 64 on a PSP. I totally agree though, some people are SO impatient it makes me sick!

I was just checking out 2.81 downgrades on google because my g/f wants to play mario....of course there's nothing yet. But I saw posts like:

"WHEN IS SOMEONE GOING TO MAKE A 2.81 DOWNGRADER? THE CODERS OUT THERE ARE SO ******G SLOW. PSP'S ARE CRAP"

Crikey! If I was a coder, I'd think sod it I'll not bother. This is all free and frankly if I had to pay a coder for it, I would. As it is, I don't so I'll send virtual hugs and kisses where necessary. (j/k)

I mean I'm au fait with PC's and programming etc, but when it comes to firmwares etc....daymn...

Someone musta bricked some PSP's in the process of finding these hacks!

Again, thanks you lovely lovely coding-type people.:thumbup:

[baracki96]

Hmm, wally made some good points but if anything I think there has recently been a igh point around christmas with emulator upgrades and what not. It's sad when you go to a forum and someone says ( wow, great work, now could you add..........) so I know exactly where wallies comming from. Seriously though, with all the great stuff out now, what else, besides an n64 emulator (fullspeed)would really kick the scene into a frenzy like the psx emulator. Just saying, I think the scene has seen its' prime come and go.

[gunntims0103]

I mean I'm au fait with PC's and programming etc, but when it comes to firmwares etc....daymn...

Someone musta bricked some PSP's in the process of finding these hacks!

Again, thanks you lovely lovely coding-type people.:thumbup:

Well, its all in how you approach coding and what your doing. I don't truely know C/C++ but i know a small bit. Dark_Alex first decrypted the 3.03 firmware. Then he must have some how interpreted Sony's code. (which is truely amazing if you blind to what which code means in a unfamiliar coding language). Then he must have went about adding hacks to run your own ps1 games and such without the use of a ps3......

What he did is truely amazing!

Yes, he even siad that he got a couple of brick psp's thru his downdater programs and his firmware updates. So partialy reembursing him in some way would be nice.

[flame0247]

the psp is amazing.
when i baught it i had one umd.
i never played it until i got my memory stick and
i downgraded it . what a diffrence
A system that can do anything i thought
what Cant a psp do.
and if this scene dies out . im happy with what i got now. I truly admire those who help this happen.