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DCEmu_Newsposter
July 20th, 2004, 05:44
Ive read on other sites about discussion about Chankast the excellent Dreamcast emulator for windows being ported to the Xbox, well on IRC yesterday (#dcemu efnet) i was told that yes its being worked on. Cant tell anymore than that but its very true.[br][br]More news as it happens :)

Eric
July 20th, 2004, 06:36
I will like to add a little more news to this. My buddy i speak to on msn has the xbox and visits evolution regularly. I dont know if he uses IRC or uses the forums but he talks to some people and what my buddy told me was that the emu runs the games at full speed. It still has some problems as it is in its beta right now but i think by next month there should be release. I dont know if its true but this is what my friend has told me.

Eric :)

SmashinGit
July 20th, 2004, 07:16
:o Well I need to get my xbox modded if thats true!

wraggster
July 20th, 2004, 07:20
Id rather play Chankast on the Xbox than any pc to be honest.

Eric
July 20th, 2004, 07:45
well i am thinking about xbox even more but i dont really see the reason to be playing it on xbox unless the graphics are being boosted up a bit other then that again this might have problems playing the homebrew games and like chankast not being able to play the very few dreamcast games online i might just stick with the dreamcast i dont know as of yet

wraggster
July 20th, 2004, 08:46
if you have a Dreamcast you wouldnt want to use a Dreamcast emulator anyway :P

Mekanaizer
July 20th, 2004, 08:50
hi people!

Full Speed!!! hahahaha

Guess what, or Chankast is more like a wrapper then a emulator or it is all Assembly over Xbox. The video emulation is a wrapper as DC, PC and Xbox use the DirectX api. But you need to emulate the CPU and i know that the best way to do that is in Assembly. Why? Because you can do in Assembly things like using a instrution to emulate a instrution and it takes less CPU use by doing that. In assemly you can find other ways to do things that in C/C++ would take more CPU cycles. I hope i made me understand. ;D If that is true then you would be able to run Chancast in a PC (Celeron CPU at ~700Mhz). Anyway the L cache is very importante for a emu too.

Iam only realistic

-Mekanaizer-.

quzar
July 20th, 2004, 09:38
There is no way that it will work to play any (good) commercial games. The SH-4 in the Dreamcast is capable of a number of Floating point calculations per second that is equivilant to a P3 733. And that is maximum possible on both. It would literally have to have 0 overhead, which is impossible.

wraggster
July 20th, 2004, 09:43
Ive been informed that garrofi is working on a new dynarec(or whatever that is)

quzar
July 20th, 2004, 10:07
No. It dosnt matter how efficient it is. It would literally have to run faster than 1:1. Like, it would have to make the xbox run the code faster than it can. I dont know how to explain it, but basically the power of the two chips in one distinct realm (floating point computations) is equal, so it would require for the emulator to be able to run the code natively, which is impossible. Since most people understand only in MHz, the 200Mhz Sh4 is equal to a 733Mhz P3 in some areas. Because of that, it would have to run exactly as fast as is theoretically possible.

Lets see if there is a better way to say this. It would be like emulating a Dreamcast on a 200Mhz computer. Its impossible. Might that help?

vipor231
July 20th, 2004, 11:17
well running a dreamcast emu on a 200mhz computer would be pointless seeing that a 200mhz can only run nes,genesis and snes emulators anything else is kinda pointless.i have tried it cuz i used to have one back in 96 when emulation was kicking off.

quzar
July 20th, 2004, 11:34
sigh. that is exactly what im saying. it is impossible to emulate the target machine on any machine that is inferior in any specific capacity. In this instance, an Xbox does not have the floating point operation capabilities of a Dreamcast, or almost the same. Processor wise, based on Floating point operations, the dreamcast and xbox processors are almost identical.

Alexvrb
July 20th, 2004, 12:19
sigh. that is exactly what im saying. it is impossible to emulate the target machine on any machine that is inferior in any specific capacity. In this instance, an Xbox does not have the floating point operation capabilities of a Dreamcast, or almost the same. Processor wise, based on Floating point operations, the dreamcast and xbox processors are almost identical.
You could probably emulate an underclocked, gimped DC, that may run some games OK. Anyway, Chankast would probably run great on an Xbox 2. So maybe that's what they meant :P

Also: DC doesn't just use a DirectX-derived API. Only a handful of games did. No KOS stuff did, no Katana stuff, etc. Also, the way the PVR2 works is very very different from an IMR like the geforce 3.5 in the xbox.

Pedro
July 20th, 2004, 18:08
1) You weren't supposed to post about it wragg
2) Just wait and see, you'll be pleasantly surprised. If garoffi can get Chankast running on a 700mhz PC running Windows (using new dynrec, or dynamic recompiler), I'm sure he can get it working on a embedded device.

wraggster
July 20th, 2004, 18:23
EEk for that i apologise

/me kicks himself

Eric
July 20th, 2004, 20:05
Graphics Processor: 250MHz custom-designed chip
Graphics Performance: Over 1 trillion operations per second; 467 floats per clock @ 300 MHz = 140.1 gigaflops
Polygon Performance: 125 M/sec
Memory: 64MB RAM
Audio Processor: Special 16-bit DSP (64 3D channels)
Hard Drive: 10GB
Disc Drive: 2-5x DVD
Controller Input: Four game controller ports
Memory Card Memory: 8MB
Additional Inputs: USB
Online Connectivity: Broadband adaptor built in
Release Date: November 15, 2001 (U.S.)
CPU: 733MHz
Maximum Resolution: 1920x1080
Memory Bandwidth: 6.4 GB/sec

i was wondering if anybody knew this a 733 mhz maching i think there could be away to decrease somethings to make it run on the XBOX but someone said it was done in C++ also XBOX is a little different then dreamcast i could C++ stuff on dc very slow depends what your going for but i have seen lots of the stuff on the xbox and somethings created there is no way of seeing that on the dc until coders have knowledge or the coding software that has the programs needed? to work with some software and i am sorry i havent edited this i dont have enough time to set edit this i am on my way to work bye for now

Eric
July 20th, 2004, 20:06
i am dumb so dont make me look more dumb i dont know your stuff

Hola
July 20th, 2004, 20:20
Your silly if you dont think xbox can do it.
Sure it will take some cheap ass tricks such as underclocking the DC but its surly possable.

quzar
July 20th, 2004, 22:34
It is not possible to emulate a DC fully on an Xbox. The SH-4's Floating point speed is equivilant to that of a p3 733. The Xbox uses a chip that is inferior to even the Celeron 733.

Oh yea, not only that, but since the Xbox has not the capability to read GD-Roms, we end up again with just a warez factory, even if it gets working to some degree. (quite certainly not fullspeed).

Kamjin
July 21st, 2004, 00:20
I'll agree and disagree with Quzar.. He's 100%
right that you can't fully emulate a Dreamcast on
an XBOX.. especially if you're making a thunk layers
to API's, there's way too much overhead..
to emulate the cpu you need to fetch, decode, and
execute.. so for every SH4 inst. you'll need at least 4
cycles so you're 800Mhz(if it were posisble to
sustain that kind of xfer) = 200Mhz.. dynamic recompliation will work better,
but it still takes the same
amount of time to analyze, convert the code. if there's
a loop, and you keep a stale comp. buffer on the side
then you'll have a gain.. but in reality you're gonna see
hiccups every time it has to fetch/analyze new data
the arm will have to be a cycle eater.. PVR BM lists will
have to be converted to NVida lists.. or actually
DX8 calls.. etc.. etc.. serious corners will have to be
cut, alot of "Hacks" done to gain speed.. in the
end it will emulate about 50% of the titles at speed..
with all sorts of poly errors, sound problems, sync
issues etc..

I think the idea is cool, and would be a fun project to
see what could actually be done.. but I'd rather see
this much effort going into a portable DC emulator,
or a PSX emulator for the DC..

wraggster
July 21st, 2004, 00:24
I think its a wait and see if it happens scenario, i trust what Pedro says and garrofi is talented but with all the best will in the world sometimes its just too high a plateau to reach.

i agree with Kamjin though a PSX emu for DC is the thing id rather see first, but not a port, we need a new emu written entirely for the Dreamcast, will that happen? ill never say never but its doubtful even with the great coders we have

Pedro
July 21st, 2004, 04:26
You need to stop comparing the XBOX to a 733mhz PC... It may resemble a PC, but its not. You're correct about many of the technical aspects of the XBOX, eg. floating point calculations.. but then again, a 733mhz Celeron PC doesn't have that either.

I know you think you're right, but Garoffi is an amazing coder. I'll say it again, if he can get it running full speed on a 700mhz PC, Im sure he can do it on the XBOX. Remember, its an embedded device, not a PC.

Eric
July 21st, 2004, 05:05
i do agree with you kamjin and wraggsters about seeing psx emulation on dc. I dont really care about seeing emulation for dc seen as how i have one of those. I also think we cant really cant compare or say anything about it not being 100% yet as we havent seen the release. Even though your coders i can see you know a lot of stuff but there is always ways of making things different.

Lets just wait for this amazing release you all can think what you want i was saying it might be 100% of speed i cant say anything until i see it.

Eric

Mekanaizer
July 21st, 2004, 06:41
Hi again

hi people!

i Mekanaizer (it is the 7th post here) wrote:

Full Speed!!! hahahaha

Guess what, or Chankast is more like a wrapper then a emulator or it is all Assembly over Xbox. The video emulation is a wrapper as DC, PC and Xbox use the DirectX api. But you need to emulate the CPU and i know that the best way to do that is in Assembly. Why? Because you can do in Assembly things like using a instrution to emulate a instrution and it takes less CPU use by doing that. In assemly you can find other ways to do things that in C/C++ would take more CPU cycles. I hope i made me understand. If that is true then you would be able to run Chancast in a PC (Celeron CPU at ~700Mhz). Anyway the L cache is very importante for a emu too.

Iam only realistic

and to this post i add this:
Emu coders know that in theory a emulator can be done it a machine with only the double of the 'speed' of the machine to be emulated, but i repeat only in theory. In practic we need more 'speed' most of the cases more then 5 times the speed.

Now a thing to Chankast Team if you people sucessefully do that please share the secret with us. ;D

-Mekanaizer-

quzar
July 21st, 2004, 07:10
You need to stop comparing the XBOX to a 733mhz PC... It may resemble a PC, but its not.

No, its not. A 733Mhz PC has more processing power. Same processor but more cache. If it uses mostly off the shelf prices, you are on a very thin line with an 'embedded device' argument.

Pedro
July 21st, 2004, 08:40
The XBOX CPU has the same amount of cache as a Celeron, but thats not the point. Everybody knows programming for a console gives alot better results than programming for a PC - mainly due to the SDK primarily being written for the specific platform's hardware. I really don't know why you're argueing against something thats being/already been done.

Pedro
July 21st, 2004, 08:41
btw, I never said it was full speed... but no one knows the speed of the emulator yet, Garoffi hasn't released any private beta's

quzar
July 21st, 2004, 12:03
The XBOX CPU has the same amount of cache as a Celeron, but thats not the point.

Well that is part of the point. No the Xbox CPU has less cache than a celeron of that generation. IIRC half the amount. P3s had 512k, Cellys had 256k and the Xbox CPU has 128k.

Also, embedded devices usually have large performance gains because they use components specifically designed for the use. This is not the case with the Xbox where it uses a relatively generic CPU and a graphics card that is in no way superior to what is availible on PCs. Since these devices are relatively generic the devkit will result in no more performance than can be gotten from gcc and if you are using DX especially then it depends on the drivers, in which case the Xbox ones are very well made, since its a single chip taken into account, but there is no proof it is superior to that found in standard PC video drivers.

Hola
July 21st, 2004, 14:37
I think its a wait and see if it happens scenario, i trust what Pedro says and garrofi is talented but with all the best will in the world sometimes its just too high a plateau to reach.

i agree with Kamjin though a PSX emu for DC is the thing id rather see first, but not a port, we need a new emu written entirely for the Dreamcast, will that happen? ill never say never but its doubtful even with the great coders we haveI hate people always say the DC scene has great coders when we have average coders. Most DC coders are very new to coding and dont have any professional experence. The reason you dont see great scale projects is simply because DC doesnt have as nearly trained coders as those who works on PC emulators. Take pagefault for example. He's not even a great coder but I think he could out code anyone that works on the DC at the current moment. I'm not trying to bash any coders but dc coders have less pratice and can always fall back on the "Hey we do this for fun and we do it for free" however if any pc coder gave the excuse ever they'd be constantly flamed and hated.

quzar
July 21st, 2004, 14:55
Warmtoe is afaik a professional coder. Many of the coders here just dabble in coding or are Computer Science students. We have learned how to do quite a bit though, and i think its safe to say the DC has one of the best coding communities of any non computer platform out there.

Also, i dont know of anybody who could be considered a DC coder who is new to programming. Most have at least 3 years experience.

Pedro
July 21st, 2004, 16:54
I know for a fact the P3 has 256k of cache, the celeron has 128k and as does the XBOX CPU. The latest 32bit CPUs have 512k of cache (for example, the AthlonXP Thoroughbreds only have 256k of cache, where as the Barton core has 512k)

Hola
July 21st, 2004, 17:46
I'm just saying we don't have no Zsknights of the DC scene or anything.

Mekanaizer
July 21st, 2004, 18:00
hi

Hola wrote:

I hate people always say the DC scene has great coders when we have average coders. Most DC coders are very new to coding and dont have any professional experence. The reason you dont see great scale projects is simply because DC doesnt have as nearly trained coders as those who works on PC emulators. Take pagefault for example. He's not even a great coder but I think he could out code anyone that works on the DC at the current moment. I'm not trying to bash any coders but dc coders have less pratice and can always fall back on the "Hey we do this for fun and we do it for free" however if any pc coder gave the excuse ever they'd be constantly flamed and hated.

i will only answer this:
How many Xbox coders know about sh4 coding. They are PC x86 coders and as you may know Xbox is x86. But Dreamcast is not. And if you know how to code for a PC you can code for Xbox. Most of the time that doesn't work with DreamCast you need to know more then just coding/compiling for PC/Xbox. And not to say what more them 90% of the Xbox coders use the leaked oficial Xbox SDK and not a free open-source ~SDK~ like KOS, Libronin or the old LibDream. And that is equal to warez coding. And one more thing i didn't saw any Xbox homebrew going comercial, do you?

(anyway i don't know much about the Xbox scene just what i read from time to time :D)

-Mekanaizer-

Hola
July 21st, 2004, 18:09
I always hated the warez excuse because I for one could care less if your using warez to devolope with. Also I wouldnt call of the DC games that have went comerical a suggeces. FoF barly broke even and that was the biggest of the comerical releases.

quzar
July 21st, 2004, 18:24
I know for a fact the P3 has 256k of cache, the celeron has 128k and as does the XBOX CPU. The latest 32bit CPUs have 512k of cache (for example, the AthlonXP Thoroughbreds only have 256k of cache, where as the Barton core has 512k)

Many P3s had 512kb of L2 cache. The Xbox CPU has a 133Mhz fsb and celerons did not. The best thing it has been compared to is a mobile celeron.

Mekanaizer
July 21st, 2004, 18:39
hi

Hola don't talk like that about things that Xbox doesn't have (and never will, cos with the way things are going Xbox coders will use the M$ SDK til Xbox is dead). The Xbox scene ISN'T half the DreamCast scene. Is just warez nothing more. Only some stuff is good to have (like that Apple emu), the ones that are no warez. Which is less then 10% of it. I end my Xbox talk here.

-Mekanaizer-

BlackAura
July 22nd, 2004, 07:21
Hola - there's one massive difference between Dreamcast stuff and PC/Xbox stuff, and it is actually related to experience. However, it's not what you think.

The problem is that a PC and Xbox both use an x86 CPU, which is extremely well known, well suited to general purpose calculations although poorly suited to 3D math, has a host of very mature development tools, uses a well specified set of programming interfaces to communicate with the hardware, and so on. The platform is extremely well known, and it's fairly easy to write good code on it.

There are other systems which are similar. For example, a modern Mac uses a processor which is different to the x86 series used in PCs, but many of the same things work, it has excellent tools, and the same kind of well understood programming interfaces.

Contrast that with the Dreamcast. It uses a 200MHz SH-4. How many other devices do you know that use an SH-4? Some of the older handheld PDA-alike machines do, and that's about it. It is a very different CPU to the x86, most of the well-known optimizations for x86 CPUs don't work on an SH-4, many of them are in fact detremental, the CPU itself works in a fundamentally different way, it's not that good at general purpose computation but it's very good at 3D math, it has a really crappy cache system which requires a completely different coding style to a PC, and frankly the compilers available for it suck.

Specifically to the Dreamcast, the programming interfaces for accessing the hardware are nothing at all like those on a PC, because the hardware is nothing like a PC either.

In other words, the problem is that the Dreamcast is a completely different machine to a PC. Of course we don't have that much experience with it - it's components are completely different to all common components we may have experience with, and they aren't really used in anything else. Additionally, it's designed for 3D gaming, not emulation. The architecture of the Dreamcast is totally unsuited to it - it's suited to 3D games, has specialised hardware for that, and that's all it was designed to be good at.

Let me put it this way - very few of the prominent coders are complete amateurs. The only one that comes to mind at the moment is Ian Michael, who essentially knew no C or C++ when he started doing Dreamcast stuff, but he had done some programming before. Many of them do this kind of stuff (or something related) as a job, and others may be relatively inexperienced (like me, for example - I've really only been doing "proper" programming for four or five years, and I did programming in BASIC before that) but that doesn't mean they aren't any good.

Admittedly, we have very few people with a lot of experience in SH-4 assembly, for example. When could we possibly have got experience with it, considering that virtually nothing else actually uses it? Compare that to a PC, where you have very large numbers of people who can write in x86 assembly. You also have many people who can write M68K assembly, Z80 assembly, 6502 assembly and so on, because they were all very popular CPUs. The SH-4 isn't, and never has been.

quzar
July 22nd, 2004, 09:25
Very well said. Only thing i want to add is the clarification that because the tools for x86 cpus are very well made and have matured over the years, it is relatively harder to write bad code for it. Unlike other consoles (like the DC) there really arnt that many things you can do beyond what the compiler does for you. Since gcc dosnt do well with code for the DC, structuring it properly and understanding the machine aides in the development for it, and can allow it to achieve things that would never happen on a comperable 200Mhz machine. Since the Xbox is just an x86 cpu, not unlike those sitting in most desktops, it will not be able to perform any better than its PC counterparts. One of the biggest reasons that an Xbox seems to be able to do much more graphics wise than a 733 p3 pc with a gf3 or whatever is because not only does it have barely any OS overhead (in compairison to a PC in which things are always running in the background [windows PC]) and because the directX interface and drivers are integrated. Since DirectX only has to understand how to do what that GPU can do, it is made to more directly interface with the hardware. A standard PC works with many interchangeable parts that plugin (im talking software here, OS, Drivers, etc) and those will always be less efficeint than one large part designed for all three. That however is just in relation to the graphics system, and the Processing power compared to a PC when overhead is taken into account.

Kamjin
July 22nd, 2004, 12:39
I hate people always say the DC scene has great coders when we have average coders. Most DC coders are very new to coding and dont have any professional experence. The reason you dont see great scale projects is simply because DC doesnt have as nearly trained coders as those who works on PC emulators. Take pagefault for example. He's not even a great coder but I think he could out code anyone that works on the DC at the current moment. I'm not trying to bash any coders but dc coders have less pratice and can always fall back on the "Hey we do this for fun and we do it for free" however if any pc coder gave the excuse ever they'd be constantly flamed and hated.


To put it nicely... ____ you..
and next time don't use me as a reference unless
you actually know what I've done in the Elec./Comp.
Industry to date.

The point is you ARE trying to bash someone.. That's
right we do it for free.. I don't think you understand
that concept. unlike the other's I'm not here to make
an excuse for you.. If you want me to code an efficent
scatter/gather dma engine for the PVR, I'll do so
add the graphics people, main engine design guys
sure.. tommorow! but who's gonna pay the salaries?
my house doesn't pay itself? and I'm not going to loose
it just so you can play your pirated rom, on a great
emulator..
When you get old enough you'll understand.. do you
take your excess free time, and read the lastest
specs/etc.. so that you can excell at your job, or
do you make a game so that the odd teenager
can sit back and flame you for no appearant reason.
And if you disagree with me please post this on
other sites and ask the other coders what they
think of the subject.. even the Zsnes team.

Alexvrb
July 22nd, 2004, 14:06
I know for a fact the P3 has 256k of cache, the celeron has 128k and as does the XBOX CPU. The latest 32bit CPUs have 512k of cache (for example, the AthlonXP Thoroughbreds only have 256k of cache, where as the Barton core has 512k)Since all the coders have handily taken care of the important topics, I'll take this. Pedro, have you taken a look at the newer P4s? They have a lot of cache. A jackload. But I don't see why the cache is all that relevant, since you still have all the other problems even if it had the full cache of a P3 and no overhead at all.

Kamjin
July 22nd, 2004, 14:58
the cache will be critical in the attempt, the more you
have the better off you are. especially in the x86 case
to gain speed, you need to keep the heavy code
inside the cache.. which then inturn will get reduced
into "ucodes" inside the pipes. at this point as long
as you don't bounce out of the cache, and flush
the pipes. you'll have that boost that you're going to need.

quzar
July 22nd, 2004, 15:00
To put it nicely... ____ you..
and next time don't use me as a reference unless
you actually know what I've done in the Elec./Comp.
Industry to date.

The point is you ARE trying to bash someone.. That's
right we do it for free.. I don't think you understand
that concept. unlike the other's I'm not here to make
an excuse for you.. If you want me to code an efficent
scatter/gather dma engine for the PVR, I'll do so
add the graphics people, main engine design guys
sure.. tommorow! but who's gonna pay the salaries?
my house doesn't pay itself? and I'm not going to loose
it just so you can play your pirated rom, on a great
emulator..
When you get old enough you'll understand.. do you
take your excess free time, and read the lastest
specs/etc.. so that you can excell at your job, or
do you make a game so that the odd teenager
can sit back and flame you for no appearant reason.
And if you disagree with me please post this on
other sites and ask the other coders what they
think of the subject.. even the Zsnes team.

:round of applause:

wraggster
July 22nd, 2004, 15:10
One thing to note, unless you have the tools yourself to do emulators, homebrew ports etc, then really your opinions wont have much credence.

I myself respect massively those who have made and continue to make the dreamcast the greatest console ever.

Kamjin
July 22nd, 2004, 19:45
::Takes a Bow, and get's off the soapbox::

Hola, Don't think I'm mad at you.. I'm just driving the
point real hard. Like Wraggster was saying if you aren't
doing it, then don't critisize it.
instead of being a couch critic get on the wagon
and simply help..
I mean if you can't code.. then offer help on drawing, music, testing, constructive critisism, writing reviews,
spreading news, co-ordinating.. the list is endless.
The whole point of this is to enjoy it. It's a hobby.
no-one rakes in money from this..
If you and to see a Zsknights team on the DC.. then
get going and start recruiting..

Hola
July 22nd, 2004, 20:18
I've been wanting to code for the DC for the longest time and I know this is gonna sound stupid but the damn tool chain is so hard to setup compared to anything else I've worked with before. Hell the XDK setups no problem is no wonder people rather work on xbox its easier.

Kamjin
July 22nd, 2004, 20:38
Yeah.. that's almost a given if you haven't had
enough unix background.. and it's probably the #1
deturent from coding on the DC, but it's almost a prereq.
to know your way around this stuff if you're gonna
work in more than just databases, sql, asp, iis etc..

Once you start toying around you'll see exactly what
we're up against.. in essence the DC to us is litteraly
an 80's computer with a really good blitter, there's
no easy API there.. but that's actually what makes
it interesting, if you need something.. you gotta
code it yourself..

also we're not blind.. the dc scene needs some
original new stuff to come out, the only way that's
gonna happen is if more people get involved in
some way.

Below are a bug or scripts/tuts.
I haven't tried any of these but I'm sure people
will jump in, with some good suggestions

Blue crab's install script w/mingw
this is pretty much a leave it all night
script, in the morning you can dev.
http://ljsdcdev.sunsite.dk/tools.php

Hanger11 step by step
http://www.hangar-eleven.de/en/devdc-index.html

Teeny Tutorial
http://www.consolevision.com/forums/YaBB.cgi?board=dcdev;action=display;num=1033424733

and there's the DCFREEDEV as well from what I
understand just unzip it, and you're off..

quzar
July 22nd, 2004, 20:39
I've been wanting to code for the DC for the longest time and I know this is gonna sound stupid but the damn tool chain is so hard to setup compared to anything else I've worked with before. Hell the XDK setups no problem is no wonder people rather work on xbox its easier.

People want to work on the Xbox because it is new and they have no want to be challanged. Why do something that is difficult when you could do something sloppy and get away with it? Its no technical achievement to get things like an SNES emu or Genesis emu or game playing fullspeed on the Xbox. The dreamcast however... now there is a challange.

Also, Hola. Just ask how to do it and we can tell you. Not only are there many tutorials for it, but there are many friendly coders willing to help you if you just ask. But if you give up on just getting the toolchain setup, frankly i dont see how you could learn how to use KOS. *I had trouble getting it setup at first and just went with one of the many alternative setups for DCdev out there. There are at least 4 different setups out there that are all different, and two of them have nice easy installers. AND they are all legal.

Oh yea, that is one thing that I cant recall being touched upon yet. Xbox dev usually uses the illegal toolkit which you shouldnt even be talking about using because its ILLEGAL. DC development is seen as a legitamate form of homebrew because it uses all free tools as opposed to xbox dev, where the xdk is used rampantly without and sort of regard towards its legality.

Edit: ooo 1 minute too late. Well, you didnt mention the Pern Projects DevkitDC. Although it is outdated and a bit buggy, for those used to devving with MSVS (as i was) this is the simplest way to start.

Hola
July 22nd, 2004, 20:41
I dont think thats fair judgement. I think Xport has had to do assloads of work on some of those emus to get them working right. And this code is far from sloppy.

Kamjin
July 22nd, 2004, 20:44
Actually that's a good point.. when you get the interview
with M$.. you can't tell them I did this real cool
homebrew for the moded XBOX using your XDK..

quzar
July 22nd, 2004, 20:45
Only things like the newer Mame sets and NG emulators, N64 and such would go into that category. Anything that can be done on the DC is no problem on the xbox. Note how I used SNES and Genesis as examples instead of Mame and PS or something.

quzar
July 22nd, 2004, 21:15
Actually that's a good point.. when you get the interview
with M$.. you can't tell them I did this real cool
homebrew for the moded XBOX using your XDK..

Hehe. yet you can say. ah i resisted temptation and did not use your WinCE toolkit in favor of kos =P.

I actually plan on applying for an intership/scholarship program MS has after my first year of college is over.

Kamjin
July 22nd, 2004, 21:55
I've been there a few years ago..mainly for WHQL,
also got a few friends working there..
When you first see it.. you think
"Welcome to Microsoftville"
" Population 2000 caffinated coderz"
by the looks of it they work you to the bone, but
the benifits easily balance that out.. and the other
cool thing if you're into arcade games.. you'll
get a real kick out of the hallways..
It's well worth to do an internship there.. you
litterally will get thrown to the lions, but after you're
done you'll walk out with knowledge you didn't even
think was possible to retain..

Hola
July 23rd, 2004, 00:08
It doesnt matter if there devolopement kits are illegal or not coding skill is still coding skill and getting psx to run on xbox was still hard and once DC is runing on Xbox I think you'd be a full to say thats not great coding.

Alexvrb
July 23rd, 2004, 00:33
the cache will be critical in the attempt, the more you
have the better off you are. especially in the x86 case
to gain speed, you need to keep the heavy code
inside the cache.. which then inturn will get reduced
into "ucodes" inside the pipes. at this point as long
as you don't bounce out of the cache, and flush
the pipes. you'll have that boost that you're going to need.
As I said, the reason I don't think it is relevant is because even if you had 256K of cache (which they don't), you still would have a serious problem getting a decent DC emulator working at all, let alone with sound. The AICA would kill any speed you had. So let's just say that I don't see myself using an Xbox for playing DC games in the forseeable future. (especially since I'd have to obtain images of games, legally or otherwise, if they can't get it to read GDs)

quzar
July 23rd, 2004, 04:40
It doesnt matter if there devolopement kits are illegal or not coding skill is still coding skill and getting psx to run on xbox was still hard and once DC is runing on Xbox I think you'd be a full to say thats not great coding.

The day that happens I will sledgehammer a DC and buy an Xbox. No proper emulator of a DC will play fullspeed on an Xbox.

Eric
July 23rd, 2004, 06:42
All i would like to say about this XBOX vs DC coders stuff. *Is we shouldnt be putting people down for there coding. *Everyone has there fair peice of work that is good. *Some maybe flop but some are good as i said. *As for games making it to the purchase point congrats to the coders who did it. *I think for xbox some of those ports and homebrews are amazing. *

All i have to say about this bashing thank god people are getting this stuff cause if it wasnt here I wouldnt be here right now or all the other people who download this stuff and come to these forums.

Thanks to all the coders who brought lovely games to both the dc and xbox scene its cause of you people buy more dreamcasts and xbox's and join these forums and give ideas to the coders for new games.

Eric

Kamjin
July 23rd, 2004, 10:22
It doesnt matter if there devolopement kits are illegal or not coding skill is still coding skill

Not as long as their real names are unknown.. you see
you can be the worlds best coder, but when you're
filling in your expierience on the resume, you can't
put down something like that. So it as though you've
never actually done it.

Eric,
We're not bashing, we just taking the other side and
discussing the merits, and possiblilty..
our arguements are that it's not possible to have an
exact emulation.. and the merits.. in which the majority
of users will turn it into a warez tool.. it would be nice
if the actually coders would post here as well so we
could have a descent debate..

Hola
July 23rd, 2004, 12:12
The day that happens I will sledgehammer a DC and buy an Xbox. No proper emulator of a DC will play fullspeed on an Xbox.

Do you count underclocking and light frame skipping unproper?

quzar
July 23rd, 2004, 14:21
Proper emulation = more or less exact clock speed, complete or mostly complete opcodes, emulation with the two previous prerequisites of all the processors, nothing faked out.

Improper emulation = incomplete opcode set, purposefully incorrect clock speed, any chip faked, any relatively major feature (noticeable feature) of the system faked or missing, less than 90% compatability with software and at least controller emulation as possible (controller, arcade stick, twinsticks).

Frameskipping applys only to speed, not to the full emulation. Considering light frameskipping would be necessary to only emulate the SH-4 on a 733 p3, I find anything short of heavy frameskipping impossible considering the complexity of the AICA hardware.

Hola
July 23rd, 2004, 20:06
I think alot of it will be faked. Especially all of the sound and it will be underclocked for sure. I count good emulation as playable without being noticable.

Mental2k
July 24th, 2004, 17:28
W00t just got chankast workin on a 486. All I had to do was invert the windows 3.1 drivers then remove the motherboard and throw it out the window. Next I took a band new one, put in a P4 3.2GHz chip 512MB ram 80GB hard drive and a radeon 5700. Installed XP and bingo, it worked!

Cap'n 1time
July 24th, 2004, 20:10
you probably all were hoping i was dead... BUT IM BACK.
and they first thing to catch my eye on this site was "Chankast to Xbox Port Rumour". Apparently, according to quazar (whom as far as i know, knows his stuff) The DC cannot fully be emulated on the Xbox due to lack of processing power, among other things. I am sure that the xbox has enough juice to do something with the emulator, but the question is, is it really worth it? I see no real point in doing it if its just going to be used by warez kiddies to *possibly* play some games. The chankast cant play many homebrews right now, and even if it could, what would the point of playing them in as bad of quallity as an emulator being ported during its alpha stage.

Nice to be back once again.

Christuserloeser
July 24th, 2004, 20:18
Hello & welcome back :)

xBox is too slow.

The SH4 with 200Mhz is comparable fast as the 700MHz x86 of the xBox.

But I'll believe it if someone releases a preview :D


Chris

quzar
July 24th, 2004, 23:36
lol. someone thinks i know something. w00t.

Hola
July 25th, 2004, 00:25
I hate this "OMG its gonna be used for warez" Guess what 95% of emulator users are using the emulators for warez. Get over it. It doesnt make it any less of a reason to make emulator for just warez. Getting a emulator working is still great feat anways.

quzar
July 25th, 2004, 00:33
If it can only be used for warez makes it very different from being able to read real media or not. Since there is obviously no moral or legal way i can appeal to you to understand why its bad for an emulator to only be able to use warez, suffice it to say that discussion of warez and warez related things is not allowed on this site and so we dont want to hear about it if some warez only thing is gonna exist.

Mental2k
July 25th, 2004, 05:09
but if it can run homebrew then it wont be entirely warez.

quzar
July 25th, 2004, 05:18
there are already DC emulators that can run homebrew.

I dont know if you were here when it first came out but there was a huge controversy because i didnt play homebrew. It would only play commercial games. Homebrew was somehow hacked into it afterwards. I seriously feel that this emulator works a lot off of HLEd stuff and is really then not an effort to document the hardware (the actual purpose of emulators, well most of them and legally) and it dosnt play a lot of homebrew.

Kamjin
July 25th, 2004, 10:16
I hate this "OMG its gonna be used for warez" Guess what 95% of emulator users are using the emulators for warez. Get over it. It doesnt make it any less of a reason to make emulator for just warez. Getting a emulator working is still great feat anways.

It's the intentions, the authors of mame had the intention, of creating something for the arcade hobbyist.
If you have a broken arcade PCB you could almost repair it just from the source and comments in mame, you also can have access to romsets/proms to get dead boards working again. it's an excellent reference for
jumper/dipswitch settings and lastly you could use your PC to play a game rather than risk having a precious boardset blown by a faulty powersupply. The romsets
were shared long before mame existed, this was mainly
becuase the companies themselves didn't actully have
copies of the the roms, and was done with a partial
blessing from most companies..

When you look at chankcast.. there is no source to assist people to code.. they've even got stuff working in there that no-one to date has figured out. If the mame
team had done a Naomi emulator, then the entire project would be out in the open

quzar
July 25th, 2004, 12:35
But then of course you get to the reason WHY the mame team dosnt do a Naomi emulator. Because of the commercial viability of such a thing. They avoid giving mame the capacity to play games that are still being sold so as to not harm the companies.

Hola
July 26th, 2004, 08:41
Chankast can already load Naomi games now tho. So soon enough people will be playing Naomi. And i'm pretty sure than Chankast will try emulator atomiswave games as they are 100% the same as DC games if you can emulate DC you are emulating Atomiswave.

quzar
July 26th, 2004, 14:03
And that means what? It only shows how much more their ethic deviates from that of the MAME team.

Mental2k
July 26th, 2004, 14:32
quzar, it may have escaped your notice but 99% of what mame runs is also warez. It doesn't make it excuseable just because some of these games are ancient. If MAME was solely for documenting hardware and didnt want to promote warez then whymake the games playable, why not just have it so it shows the game can run and be done with it?

Many of us also use games like beats of rage which contains a large amount of ripped sprites, how do you think they got these, by running warez roms in neoragex or kawaks. Fact of the matter is where you have emulation you have warez. If you say you aren't doing it for warez reasons then prove you can run them on your emulator, but dont let people play them. Otherwise don't complain about warez.

quzar
July 26th, 2004, 15:23
There are two types of warez. Those that may actually affect something commercially and those that cannot. The roms that mame can run have been held back to only those that are no longer made. This means that the company does not lose money due to mame while they are trying to sell their games. NAOMI and Atomiswave games are still made. There is a big difference between the two.

Cap'n 1time
July 26th, 2004, 15:26
quzar, it may have escaped your notice but 99% of what mame runs is also warez. It doesn't make it excuseable just because some of these games are ancient. If MAME was solely for documenting hardware and didnt want to promote warez then whymake the games playable, why not just have it so it shows the game can run and be done with it?

Many of us also use games like beats of rage which contains a large amount of ripped sprites, how do you think they got these, by running warez roms in neoragex or kawaks. *Fact of the matter is where you have emulation you have warez. If you say you aren't doing it for warez reasons then prove you can run them on your emulator, but dont let people play them. Otherwise don't complain about warez.


While you might be correct, it does not mean we should take any part in it. Sprite ripping is very simple to do without an emulator, whos to say that beats of rage used an illegal method to get the sprites. The whole point of this website is for homebrew, development, and emulation. What is done with it really isnt any of our concern, but generaly it was most likely not the intention of the developer for the emulator to be used for illeagal proceadures. Anyway, what the mods of the site say goes, and they say no warez. Lets hope that the Chankast team feels the same way so this site will continue to give them support.

Mental2k
July 26th, 2004, 16:03
quzar, DC stuff is dead, and sega realy aren't makin that much money from it anymore.

1timeuser, the sprites are illegal regardless of whether they used an emu to get them, unless they are given express permission by say sega, or playmore, that was the point I was makin.

Cap'n 1time
July 26th, 2004, 16:25
quzar, DC stuff is dead, and sega realy aren't makin that much money from it anymore.

1timeuser, the sprites are illegal regardless of whether they used an emu to get them, unless they are given express permission by say sega, or playmore, that was the point I was makin.




DC stuff isnt dead, people are still developing for it. If you felt it was dead, why do you come to this site?

That was not your point either, you clearly stated that they used emulators to rip the sprites. The whole conversation is based around emulators, not the legitament sprite ripping of games.
For mame its turned into less of a question of whats legit and whats not, and more into a question of ethics.
I dont think their is any problem with displaying copyrighted graphics as long as you dont claim to be the origonal creator of them. If that were true then the internet would be shut down by now.

Just because the company is no longer making money on it, does not really mean its right to use warezed roms.

quzar
July 26th, 2004, 17:59
1timeuser, the sprites are illegal regardless of whether they used an emu to get them, unless they are given express permission by say sega, or playmore, that was the point I was makin.

thats not true. the sprites are covered under fair use. The product is not being sold and is completely free, therefor can use copyrighted stuff like that.

Kamjin
July 26th, 2004, 19:21
quzar, it may have escaped your notice but 99% of what mame runs is also warez.

Would you like I post pics.. here's page 1 of a 4 page document called PCBlist.xls which is currently
in need of serious additions..
You were saying something about mame and warez?

2x BagMan Stern Vert
1x King Boxer Wood Place Vert
2x Super Qix Tatio Vert
2x Main Event Horiz
3x Gyruss Konami Vert
1x Tiger Heli ? Vert Char Problem
2x Scramble Bootleg Vert
1x Popeye Nintendo Horiz Minor Sprite prob
1x Traverse USA ? Vert
1x Bank Panic Horiz
1x Exed Exes Vert
2x Frogger Sega/Gremlin Vert
1x Phoenix Vert
2x Tutankhamn Vert
1x Scramble Stern Vert
1x WonderBoy Monster Sega Horiz
1x Space Pilot Vert
1x Terra Cresta Vert
1x Juno First Vert
1x Championship Golf Horiz
1x Espial Orca Horiz
1x Storming Party Horiz Bad Audio Amp
1x Q-Bert Vert
1x Centipede Vert
3x Galaxian Midway Vert
1x Zaxxon Sega Vert
2x Altered Beast Sega Horiz
1x Shinobi Sega Horiz No Audio
1x Golden Axe Sega Horiz
1x KungFU Master Irem Horiz
1x Bomb Jack Horiz
1x Scrambled Eggs Vert
2x Time Pilot Vert
2x Pengo Sega Vert
1x Mortal Kombat Midway Horiz
4x Moon Patrol Horiz
1x Moon Ranger Horiz
1x Ghost n Goblins Horiz
1x Tetris Bootleg Horiz
5x Tron Bally Vert
1x Journey Bally Vert
1x TMNT Horiz
1x Quiz n Dragons Horiz
3x Pole Position Atari Horiz
1x Top Racer Konami Horiz
5x Gorf Midway Vert
1x Wizard of Wor Midway Vert
1x Donkey Kong Jr Nintendo Vert

quzar
July 26th, 2004, 21:06
he wont have any clue as to what that is. to enlighten you, that is a list of the arcade boards that kamijin owns.

btw that is an awsome looking collection.

Hola
July 26th, 2004, 21:32
Yeah and i'm sure that everyone has that meany arcade boards sitting at home.
Btw one reason I feel its right for Naomi emulation is because most of the games are out for dc.
See and I see it as being morally fine to play the Naomi roms of a game you own for DC instead of having to use a coder cable and rip your game and make a iso just to play it.
I also feel that its morally fine to play the US version of a game if you only paid for the Import version or vice versa.

quzar
July 26th, 2004, 21:42
If you have a game and a coders cable and a DC there is no good reason to use chankast.

Kamjin
July 26th, 2004, 22:23
Yeah and i'm sure that everyone has that meany arcade boards sitting at home.

No, but there are many, take a look over at vaps, I took my extra money over the last
8+ years and turned it to my hobby. I have no fear of of using my real name when posting on emulation boards etc..



I see it as being morally fine to play the Naomi roms of a game you own for DC
Ask sega what they think, you're still able to buy the
romsets/conversion kits from them for most of the NaomiI&II board sets.. They aren't $25 dreamcast
games, they're $200+ boardsets..
By the way.. how are you going to get the game images
from your roms/eproms , or gdrom? not to mention the
protection e2prom??



btw that is an awsome looking collection.

Thank you.. add about 2.5 pages but there's
alot of doubles, and bootlegs though..Not
to mention 7 full machines, and 6 pinballs..
Used to buy lots at a time from local shops so I'd
get the PCB's at about $5-8cdn each, had to repair well over 1/2 of them..
but after selling/trading I'm only down about $3000cdn. which is actually amazing..

Here's a friend I used to buy lots with, this boy
is soo anal about making the machines mint again.
http://pages.infinit.net/edg/arcade.html

Mental2k
July 27th, 2004, 16:17
quzar what is the assumption i'm stupid? Please dont insult my intelligence it's not like i've got a pHD in aeronautical engineering. (let me enlighten you thats to do with aerodynamics, figured you might not get that) but I'm not dumb.

I meant that as a comercial machine for sega DC is all but dead. I have nothing against warez.

Kamjin, I'm well aware that some people have pcbs, I have a mslug one, complete with cabinet. But that doesn't change the fact that most people dont have the pcbs for all the roms they use.

face facts, most emulation is used for warez. I'm not syain all of it, i'm not sayin that its the intention of emulator writers, but if you dont want people to play warez on your emulator, simply let there be no controls programmed in the emu. simple, and it proves you can do it.

wraggster
July 27th, 2004, 16:42
Come on people keep it light hearted :)

Lets wait and see if a release happens.

Kamjin
July 27th, 2004, 21:16
i've got a pHD in aeronautical engineering. (let me enlighten you thats to do with aerodynamics, figured you might not get that)


You know.. just from these forums...
if we all actually got togther with a few of our friends..
we could take over the world ;D

I've know someone who completed his Masters
in Aerospace.. that was bad enuf.. hat's off to you!



Kamjin, I'm well aware that some people have pcbs, I have a mslug one, complete with cabinet. But that doesn't change the fact that most people dont have the pcbs for all the roms they use.

Just taking a complete side trying to prove the point..
I heavily believe that if you own the album.. the mp3
is fair game.. If the company can't provide you with
a replacement.. I consider that a total forfeit of (C)
As I got older I now draw the line a commercial viabilty.
If you can buy it.. then it's warez.. but games from
the 70's and 80's.. even the companies themselves
tell you "unofficially" to look and download the rom
images off the web..
But you see, you did buy at least 1 game rather
than emulate it.. lot's more fun in a cabinet on the
original hardware ;D

People just can't be hardcore warez monkeys.. there's
a limit to it..

quzar
July 27th, 2004, 21:34
face facts, most emulation is used for warez. I'm not syain all of it, i'm not sayin that its the intention of emulator writers, but if you dont want people to play warez on your emulator, simply let there be no controls programmed in the emu. simple, and it proves you can do it.

much emulation can be used for either non-commercially viable games or can be used for original copies. Chankast can barely be used for either as it has issues with homebrew and cannot read GD-Roms. Even saying it could be used to replace a broken Dreamcast is wrong because you cannot legally play games on it without a functioning dreamcast to copy the games with (which already can be considered illegal).

Oh, and boasting on online forums is useless. anyone who is a big user on DCemulation.com probably remembers Falcon the 'Fighter Pilot'.

Mental2k
July 28th, 2004, 05:47
quzar lighten up. Technically, we're only alowed to have 1 identical copy of all software we own, which would mean it would have to be in the same format as the original, ie. a pcb would have to be copied to another identical pcb. If we could get pcs to easily read GD-roms, chankast would probably support it, but we cant, so ripped games are the only alternative. I think Kamjins last point pretty much sums up everything that has to be said on the subject of warez as far as this convo has to go. So let that be an end to our bickering!

Cap'n 1time
July 28th, 2004, 07:24
I think Kamjins last point pretty much sums up everything that has to be said on the subject of warez as far as this convo has to go. So let that be an end to our bickering!


Aye, I find it unlikely that Chankast will come out for xbox anyways, but if or when it does we can worry about it then.

quzar
July 28th, 2004, 07:25
Icarus had GD support ready supposedly. You can have non identical copies in the US under the DMCA. As long as it is an achivial copy it may be in any format and you may have as many as you want. The idea is that in order to fit something onto a CD, you have to muck around with the GD rom.

Mental2k
July 28th, 2004, 14:35
Ah fair enough, I live in UK :'( still. It's a nice dream eh.

Cap'n 1time
July 30th, 2004, 21:11
ah... i had forgotten about icarus with all the excitement of chankast. For GD support, wouldnt you need some kind of hardware driver?

quzar
July 30th, 2004, 23:10
They had written one.

Mental2k
July 31st, 2004, 05:34
quzar, did it involveman IDE interface and literally plug a GD rom into the PC? Or was it a driver that could make a cd rom worun at the correct play/read speed?

Kamjin
July 31st, 2004, 06:08
It would be a task on it's own to get a CDReader to read
a GDROM.. it's possible, but you'd need to take over
the firmware, and make the necessay changes to handle
the "backwardsness", and head seeking contorls..
So they'd have to be modified on a 1 by 1 basis..
It was more likely that it would only support GDROM
raw dumps. unless they were addind support for
the Katana/Naomi burners..

Cap'n 1time
July 31st, 2004, 06:49
Is GD rom similar to the Xbox's weird DVD rom? It runs disks backwards? Or is it some kind of encryption/compression that no one has broken into yet? can someone explain in detail what the heck this GD rom actually is?

Mental2k
July 31st, 2004, 06:56
Check out on dcemulation.com, theres a tutorial on there somewhere on how they think it works, If i remember correctly its omethin to do with data tracks being written closer together hence allowing more of them, but dont quote me on that.

wraggster
July 31st, 2004, 07:14
actually check out http://www.boob.co.uk for the information

they have the proper info there.

Kamjin
July 31st, 2004, 07:31
Simmilar in ideology to the xbox..
No one's actually analysed it enough to see what's actually being done. In practical terms, Just like a DVD can hold 4.7G on the same surface, a GD is a sillilar idea.
They can do this by placeing the tracks closer together, or by increasing the density, so you could hold more data for each track. My guess is that it's a little of both.
CD's could have done this also long ago, if we didn't have the 99:99 problem, and backwards compatibility.

To shift the conversation a bit..
I hope that in the future console companies start embracing the idea of homebrew.. Sony has, but not in the right fasion with the Yarozeh, and linux.
If they made a console that can physically alter it's
memory map, features etc.. if a pressed media or CDR was put in, and released a free dev kit. I think that would probably fly..
Imagine if the gamecube had done this in the begining.
on the piracy side.. you can't fit commercial games in 210MB, not to mention they wouldn't play due to the HW changes.. but you'd be able to have a good homebrew selling point as well..

Mental2k
July 31st, 2004, 16:22
But it would dissuade people buyin so many commercial games if free ones are available, remember games companies make their moneys on the games and lose it on consoles!

Kamjin
July 31st, 2004, 17:08
they don't loose as much as they used to, especially when it comes the end of the fist year, in the 2nd year they're already breaking even on the hardware. But that's why I say defeat some of the hardware. leave
up to simple triangle functions, and simple audio. And
create a Eula on the box that no profit can be derived from the homebrew. Given there's a good homebrew base of emulators, classic games etc.. it won't compete directly with the commercial games.. Odds are even the hardcore homebrew fan will still buy the 6-8 titles needed to get double in profit.

Mental2k
August 1st, 2004, 10:17
fair enough, i suppose u could write in the EULA that some homebrew can be sold by Ninty if its good enough. (ie out doing the comercial games) or a collection of homebrew games, at a reduced price, and ninty make the money. For those who can't d/l it.

desertboy
August 2nd, 2004, 08:03
I didn't read the whole thread but there was a lot of misinformation in this thread.

1. Xbox doesn't read dvd's backwards, I have 2 xbox's and when you eject with an original game in, it's spinning the same way as a dvd movie does. I've heard the same rumour about GC discs as well and even GDroms when they first came out this is a persistent rumour not based in fact. Ask over on xbox-scene.com in the dvd forums if you don't believe me.

2. The xbox CPU is a P3 733 celeron with 128K secondary cache yes, but it has a much improved primary cache.

took from this website
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=1561&p=2

The CPU that powers the Xbox is a Coppermine based Pentium III with only 128KB L2 cache. While this would make many think that the processor is indeed a Celeron, one of the key performance factors of the Pentium III that is lost in the Celeron core was left intact for this core. The Coppermine core was left with an 8-way set associative L2 cache instead of the 4-way set associative cache of the Celeron. Based on what we've seen with the Coppermine and Coppermine128 (Celeron) cores we estimate that the 8-way set associative L2 cache gives this particular core a 10% performance advantage over the Coppermine128 core of the Celeron

As said earlier the xbox doesn't have the grunt for floating point, I believe Chankast (In it's present form) heavily uses SSE2 which is probably used extensively for the floating point operations, the xbox does not support SSE2 although the P3 floating point core wasn't all that bad.

I think that even if they do get chankast running nicely on 733 P3's the xbox just doesn't have the ram for it.

I'm glad I kept my DC now and the reason I bought and chipped my xbox was because of homebrew which I got into because of my DC.

Eric
August 2nd, 2004, 08:10
That was the whole reason why i got my DC and with in this year desertboy you will find alot more amazing things coming soon

quzar
August 2nd, 2004, 12:48
Chankast does not use SSE2. If it did it wouldnt run on Althon XPs.

desertboy
August 6th, 2004, 08:57
Chankast does not use SSE2. If it did it wouldnt run on Althon XPs.

My bad, I thought it was SSE2 but it's only SSE it uses extensively.

Still Xbox port is very unlikely and to be honest if it was ported the majority of people using this would be warez whores. The xbox scene is full of them and they wouldn't be using their BBA's or serial cables to rip their games there'd be using popular BT sites instead.

Oh and it would have to be compiled with M$ SDK which would be illegal as well. (Never proven in court but obvious)

Alexvrb
August 11th, 2004, 15:09
Well of course they'd use it for warez. They don't even need a DC anymore, hurray. :(