PSX Emu on the PSP, Possible or Not ?

[wraggster]

On the Dreamcast we had Bleemcast but that was more of a single game emulator than ran a few games perfect but do you think PSX emulation could ever be fullspeed on the PSX, which is the best source to use to port or is an emu written from scratch the best option?

what do you think ?

[watoto]

isn't there a very good emu for pocket pc?they could port that one,as long as i get to play more rpg i'm all for it.

i say it's possible,with some work,you'll see

[ganon]

from scratch

[wraggster]

the coder of the pocket pc version actually posts on these forums :)

[CannedSoup]

No ones that good of a coder its not gonna happen. When you see Snes running without overclocking on 122mhz then you can start to see some 30% speed psx emulators.

[Onetonbullet]

^^^Your comparing apples and oranges...^^^

From scratch(happy?)=Full speed(Compiled when sdk gets better, or uh...heh heh)
Port=Possible, but probably never full speed

I would think single game emulation like bleemcast

[RedKing14CA]

"PSX emulation could ever be fullspeed on the PSX," why would you want to emulate psx, on a psx??? isnt that kind of already possible???

well i think you meant the psp, and i know what a psx is.... kind of.... ummm.... int it a ps1 and 2, and like, a dvd player, with like, file storing or something? from what i know it wasnt released in america.... but i think ps1 emu would be possible on the psp...

"time feels like a midnight ride, finality waits outside.. weaping in perplexity's arms, carressing our smiles inside"

[watoto]

very funny.psx stands for ps1 obviously,since before the psx came out

[ArchAngel]

I think an emulator built from scratch would be best, I would imagine the hardware profiles for the PSX and the PSP would be similar, except the PSP has more MHz potential, only problem I see is memory card space and right analog usage, not to mention L2 and R2, but these things can be overcome Im sure. but im no programmer or hardware spec analysis major, let someone that knows programming like the back of his hand tell us.

[J@F]

bleemcast was coded from the ground up in assembly for speed. bleemcast was originally supposed to support a bunch of games but bleem was a small company (in financial trouble from being sued by a big company)coding in a difficult language. they didn't have alot of resources, so QA was hard. because of those prob's they had to make emulators for specific games(much easier). technologicly there was nothing imposible with emulating a whole bunch of different games on each bleemcast disc. the original plan to release packs that had game specific fixes in them, were just going to be for something the game did that wasn't normal.

I think the PS1 can be emulated on PSP better than PS2 does. The PSP CPU should be nearly binary compatable with PS1's. I can't see why sound would be a problem, and athough PS1 and PSP have the same amount of Vram (2MB), the PSP GPU's 5.3GB/s bus should keep it from being a problem.

and saying PSP can't run ps1 because it can't play Snes full speed is flawed logic. the hackers haven't found out how to fully utilize the gpu yet. that's probably why even though genesis had a faster cpu then snes did, genesis runs faster(snes has a better gpu than genesis) once hackers figure out the gpu, everything will be faster. hey GBA can emulate snes, don't tell me psp can't.

and as for weither to port or code from scratch, I say code from scratch. ps1 emu's on the pc aren't even 100% perfect. and coding from scratch eliminates design flaws that might cause problems if you ported one.

[Omatic]

I honestly don't know much about porting or anything like that, but I will say that just about everything up to the N64 SHOULD be possible on the PSP, looking at the specs.

Since the hackers / homebrewers don't have the SDK that the game makers have, they can't just come right out with an emulator that runs at 100% speed immediately.

As best exemplified by the UO_SNES9X emulator by "y", it's a slow but steady process. Gradually, as the programmer does whatever he does, the emulator gets better and better.

[shadowprophet]

All this talk of emulation. Yes its possible. and if we dont see a ps 1 emulator for the psp by this time next year, weather its running crapy or not, I"ll eat my words.
But somone had a very Good idea once when we went over this in another thread.

Direct ports are the answer here with direct ports, maybe even some ps2 stuff might even be possible. Maybe instead of focusing on the problems, focus on the solutions for a little while. Somone doesnt need to make a emulator, They need to make a port conversion Tool. To prep these games to be ran on the psp as direct ports. yeah yeah:rolleyes: I can hear it now !!! Hes F***ing crazy do you even know how much effort Blahh Blahh.. The Fact Remains It can be done ! End of story :P

[Cap'n 1time]

All this talk of emulation. Yes its possible. and if we dont see a ps 1 emulator for the psp by this time next year, weather its running crapy or not, I"ll eat my words.
But somone had a very Good idea once when we went over this in another thread.

Direct ports are the answer here with direct ports, maybe even some ps2 stuff might even be possible. Maybe instead of focusing on the problems, focus on the solutions for a little while. Somone doesnt need to make a emulator, They need to make a port conversion Tool. To prep these games to be ran on the psp as direct ports. yeah yeah:rolleyes: I can hear it now !!! Hes F***ing crazy do you even know how much effort Blahh Blahh.. The Fact Remains It can be done ! End of story :P

you kind of need the SOURCE to do a port you know..... Please, tell me how you plan on distributing the leaked source of a PS2 game. Its not like you can run a batch file that just automatically makes the psp understand the PS2.

[Kaiser]

All this talk of emulation. Yes its possible. and if we dont see a ps 1 emulator for the psp by this time next year, weather its running crapy or not, I"ll eat my words.
But somone had a very Good idea once when we went over this in another thread.

Direct ports are the answer here with direct ports, maybe even some ps2 stuff might even be possible. Maybe instead of focusing on the problems, focus on the solutions for a little while. Somone doesnt need to make a emulator, They need to make a port conversion Tool. To prep these games to be ran on the psp as direct ports. yeah yeah:rolleyes: I can hear it now !!! Hes F***ing crazy do you even know how much effort Blahh Blahh.. The Fact Remains It can be done ! End of story :P

Its possible I agree with you on that.

However, converting emulators is not the key. Thats the major problem with the emulators now. A lot of them are just conversions making for slow performance. If a progam was started from the ground up and made specifically to utilize the PSP's hardware it would have a lot more potential then just a simple port.

Of course by the time a some-what decent emulator for the PS1 arrives large capacity and more importantly CHEAP memory stick duos should be out.

How much space does a typical PS1 game take?
(I never really got into PS1 emulation on the PC)

[shadowprophet]

Its possible I agree with you on that.

However, converting emulators is not the key. Thats the major problem with the emulators now. A lot of them are just conversions making for slow performance. If a progam was started from the ground up and made specifically to utilize the PSP's hardware it would have a lot more potnetial then just a simple port.

Of course by the time a somewhat-decent emulator for the PS1 arrives large capacity and more importantly CHEAP memory stick duos should be out.

How much space does a typical PS1 game take?
(I never really got into PS1 emulation on the PC)

A tipical game could take anywhere from 400+ to 600 megs on one disc a multi discer well that another story :P

But i have seen some ps one games some of the generation one stuff only tak up about 100 megs. DBZ Final Bout ps1 al ziped up only takes about 68 megs.

[Kaiser]

A tipical game could take anywhere from 400+ to 600 megs on one disc a multi discer well that another story :P

But i have seen some ps one games some of the generation one stuff only tak up about 100 megs. DBZ Final Bout ps1 al ziped up only takes about 68 megs.

:eek:

hmm that would kill anyones memory stick quickly. thanks for the information

[PSP_Newbie]

but hopefully by the time they actually release something like this, they'll have 1 and 2 gig memory sticks and maybe even bigger ones much, much cheaper and more readily avaliable than they are now, maybe making this more possible

[shadowprophet]

Oh i can conferm that one giger stick is already out :p
I got one, There the complete snizzle, I realize that was probibly just an oversite on your part but i couldnt pass it up :p

[PSP_Newbie]

sry, bad wording, yeah i know, the 2 gig sticks are out alrdy too(like $400) i just meant that they'll hopefully lower the price a hellavu lot by then^^

[shadowprophet]

I want a 2 gig stick so bad I can taste it.
But I refuse to buy one untill they drop to a reasonible price.
there asking an outragious ammount for them. To be honest I woundnt buy one for that price even if I had the money seventy times over. For how stupid I would feel paying that much for one :rolleyes:

[CannedSoup]

bleemcast was coded from the ground up in assembly for speed. bleemcast was oringally supposed to support a bunch of games but bleem was a small company (in financial trouble from being sued by a big company)coding in a difficult language. they didn't have alot of resources, so QA was hard. because of those prob's they had to make emulators for specific games.(much easier)technologicly there was nothing imposible with emulating different games. the original plan to release packs that had game specific fixes in them, were just going to be for something the game did that wasn't normal.

I think the PS1 can be emulated on PSP better than PS2 does. The PSP CPU should be nearly binary compatable with PS1's. I can't see why sound would be a problem, and athough PS1 and PSP have the same amount of Vram, the PSP GPU's 5.3GB/s bus should keep it from being a problem.

and saying PSP can't run ps1 because it can't play Snes full speed is flawed logic. the hackers haven't found out how to fully utilize the gpu yet. that's probably why even though genesis had a faster cpu then snes did, genesis runs faster(snes has a better gpu than genesis) once hackers figure out the gpu, everything will be faster. hey GBA can emulate snes, don't tell me psp can't.

and as for weither to port or code from scratch, I say code from scratch. ps1 emu's on the pc aren't even 100% perfect. and coding from scratch eliminates design flaws that might cause problems if you ported one.
GBA runs snes at about 20% speed first off. I was saying snes is 4mhz where is psx is 32mhz. Its a good comparsion. No amature coder has the skills to do it. PSX on Xbox took tons of effort and just has enough power to emulate psx perfectly around 55 to 60 fps. PSX emulation on psp will never be better than crappy.

[shadowprophet]

Have you seen some of the homebrew thats out there now?
I mean come on this stuuf is from exsperienced coders, you dont get results like uosens9x v.27 from an amature. Just because these people arent pushing out code for sony or microsoft doesnt make them (amature) You know these coders do a lot of there work in smal groups if there is any more then just the single coder. while on the other hand it takes a crew of about 20+ people to make mario blow sunshine up your ass. These homebrew developers. Could code circles around some of the people you (wouldnt) call an amiture!

My point is Give these people the respect they deserve.

[shadowprophet]

In fact. did you know that when the pc version of final fantasy seven was comeing out squaresoft was so short handed. they hired sevral homebrew developers to help finish it. (Homebrew Developers) This is actuelly acommon pratice amoung hugh software development companys. Think about this..
If you where running a software development company. And where pressed for time and money. would you hire the ivy leauge collage guys that cost a whole helluva lot more just cause they have (papers that claim there not an amature- Meaning in most cases they paied there way through collage) or would you hire a a team with the skill to get it done. the list could go on but rerto studios. The mertiod prim guys?? Yeah Got there Start in Homebrew.
The lesson Here is respect Skill.. :p

[Onetonbullet]

GBA runs snes at about 20% speed first off. I was saying snes is 4mhz where is psx is 32mhz. Its a good comparsion. No amature coder has the skills to do it. PSX on Xbox took tons of effort and just has enough power to emulate psx perfectly around 55 to 60 fps. PSX emulation on psp will never be better than crappy.

The debate rages on...
If your going to use processor speed to justify emulation speculation(say that 5 times fast), look at it this way:
Dreamcast ran some PSX games with bleemcast perfectly, and the PSP has a faster processor.

I say instead of debating whats possible, we debate what will actually come to fruition.


Someone was wondering about memstick prices...Dont worry, Xecuter has got a solution that involes usb hhds and flash memory adapters :p :p

[shadow77]

Well a 1GB stick is perfect for PSX games, you wouldn't need all the discs of FF7 on the memory stick at once you know.. a 512MB would fit most games actually.

I think it would be possible, but the emulator would have to be coded from the ground up, so I doubt it'll be coming anytime soon.

[bakwardbob]

PSX is possible. As mentioned eariler, the pocket pc emualtion came a long way with the PSX. Check out this link to their web site below. They were able to make very small ISO's of the discs.

Never say something can't be done, because without dreams whats left. That is why most of us visit sites like this daily. We are waiting for someone to amaze us, or show us something that CAN'T be done...

http://www.fpsece.net/

[quzar]

I love it how people always say "coded from ground up" as if that is the holy grail of console emulation. Here's a little no-so-secret piece of info you should all know about bleemcast: the only reason it was coded in 100% asm is because that is what rand codes in.

Every single thing he has ever done has been 100% asm, he doesn't work any other way, and is most comfortable writing assembly for whatever machine rather than C or C++ or whatever else.

Around 90% of all code in an emulator (excluding processor emulation) cannot be made to be any faster simply by writing it in asm. There are two very important things to do in order to make a port as fast as possible (as fast as noticably possible): writing CPU emulators that are in one way or another optimized for the target processor (wether or not it's in asm) and writing A/V outputs that utilize the A/V hardware of the target console.

[shadowprophet]

Im very interested to see a few programs you have coded or projects you have worked on. Im very interested, you seem like one suave mofo quzar. and from one artiest to another I want to see some of your work.

Ps you dont want to see mine. as I am not a coder. Nor do I know how to code very well I can however whip you up a bmp to jpeg conveter :P

"shadowprophet" Cause he wants to see the goods :p

[Onetonbullet]

writing CPU emulators that are in one way or another optimized for the target processor

When I say "Ground up" I mean written with the PSP in mind from the start, and not a port of a PC emu...

[o2byzst]

Are there even emulators for the Sega Saturn or Nintendo 64? I mean we should be taking each generation at a time...cause someone posted that the SNES games need to be overclocked to run decently...how can we ever expect PS games to run anything over bare minimal.

Is there even an N64 emulator that exsists and works at all? I've not seen one...getting a good emulator whether it's ported or ground up from scratch will be beyond hard.

I remember the Bleemcast, it wasn't exactly the greatest emulator ever...it worked but it seemed slow and something was lacking in the graphics.

Time will tell about a PS emulator.

[shizzle]

once again you cna't compaire the psx to the snes because of the difference. Because of the similaritys in the psx and psp, if we ever figured hardware accelartion, then psx could be possible at 222 mhz.

[quzar]

When I say "Ground up" I mean written with the PSP in mind from the start, and not a port of a PC emu...

you missed the point of what I said by 100%.

shadowprophet: all my stuff (for DC) is on www.screamcast.net . I have never released anything I have done for the PC. I'm far from the best coder around, but have learned a lot more than what I have yet to apply. My most notable work was the continuation of NeoCD/SDL as NeoDC.

[o2byzst]

Yeah but it seems if we were take to each generation of systems by hand we could develop emulators and improve on them while focusing on the next emulator for the PS1 & Sega Saturn generation.

I understand your point about the PS1 being similar in design to the PSP, but isn't the PSP a lesser version of the PS2? That was the way I understood it to be, that most of the games on the PSP currently are basically ports of PS2 type titles.

Besides, couldn't we use the "Bleemcast" emulator as a stepping stone to developing an PS1 emulator for the PSP?

[PSP_Newbie]

well, technically PSP isnt a "lesser" version of the PS2, but more powerful^^
the PSP runs on a 333mhz CPU and a 166mhz GPU, while the PS2 runs on a 294.912mhz CPU and 147.456 GPU, with the psp more than 10% more powerful
as for using Bleemcast, from what i've heard so far, it would be much better to create an original emulator from scratch then to use one from another system(ie Bleemcast)

[quzar]

well, technically PSP isnt a "lesser" version of the PS2, but more powerful^^
the PSP runs on a 333mhz CPU and a 166mhz GPU, while the PS2 runs on a 294.912mhz CPU and 147.456 GPU, with the psp more than 10% more powerful
as for using Bleemcast, from what i've heard so far, it would be much better to create an original emulator from scratch then to use one from another system(ie Bleemcast)

so, all CPU's are identical and the different brand names and 'architechture' types are simply all masks for the same CPU running at different clockspeeds right? ... no matter what anyone tries to tell you, clock speed is one of the least proper way's to compare powers of cpus.

[PSP_Newbie]

lol, sry, its late and im not thinking clearly, you're right on that, my bad^^
as for power, about how does the psp rack up against the PS/PS2 about? do u have a general idea?

[CannedSoup]

In fact. did you know that when the pc version of final fantasy seven was comeing out squaresoft was so short handed. they hired sevral homebrew developers to help finish it. (Homebrew Developers) This is actuelly acommon pratice amoung hugh software development companys. Think about this..
If you where running a software development company. And where pressed for time and money. would you hire the ivy leauge collage guys that cost a whole helluva lot more just cause they have (papers that claim there not an amature- Meaning in most cases they paied there way through collage) or would you hire a a team with the skill to get it done. the list could go on but rerto studios. The mertiod prim guys?? Yeah Got there Start in Homebrew.
The lesson Here is respect Skill.. :p
That ff7 example is pure bullshit since it was contracted out to Eidios to port it to pc. Also CPU is a semi good judge of things. Yes they are amature coders. Some like Randy Linden or Yuji Naka are professoinals. The people who code great things like Zsnes are still amature coders(well not totally since Zsknights is a professional coder for contracted hire)

[shadowprophet]

Soupcanman Eidos was the company that housed its publication and sales managment. At the time Squaresoft hadnt done a whole lot of pc titles.But you need to get your facts lined up right ,,
Yes it was contracted out To Eidos. And in fact I believe it WAS eidos that in fact hired the homebrew developers to work on ff 7 pc. And (Ported) final fantasy 7 pc Was not (ported) Have you played this game? It Wasnt a port It Was Very Much The Same Story And plot Even the cg movies Where The same. But The Game engine Had To be completely rebuilt there Was no porting that. Its supported graphics At the time that Would have made your Eyes Bleed provided You had a video Card That Could handel it. So dont call somthing bullshit, untill you know what your talking about. A while lot of homebrew developers where working on ff 7 pc at the time. And for your imformation. It had to be published by a company Somwhere, squaresoft hadnt done a whole lot of pc titles. look into your facts before you lable them as bullshit. cause simple put you dont know what your talking about. Aperently.
Anyway no offence ment cannedsoup. But how can you call somthing bullshit When the information is Right out there and all you would have had to do was look it up? Eidos Is well known for For hireing Homebrew Coders from time to time. Team Silicon knights (Back in the days of crystal dynamics) up untill They where working on the very first blood omen legacy of kain game. I dont believe any of them had had finished collage at that time.

And quzar Thankx for the link Ive bookmarked it. Now I only wish I still had my dreamcast so I could check some of this stuff out :p I lost my dc a long time ago. But thanx For the link bro :p

[CannedSoup]

Soupcanman Eidos was the company that housed its publication and sales managment. At the time Squaresoft hadnt done a whole lot of pc titles.But you need to get your facts lined up right ,,
Yes it was contracted out To Eidos. And in fact I believe it WAS eidos that in fact hired the homebrew developers to work on ff 7 pc. And (Ported) final fantasy 7 pc Was not (ported) Have you played this game? It Wasnt a port It Was Very Much The Same Story And plot Even the cg movies Where The same. But The Game engine Had To be completely rebuilt there Was no porting that. Its supported graphics At the time that Would have made your Eyes Bleed provided You had a video Card That Could handel it. So dont call somthing bullshit, untill you know what your talking about. A while lot of homebrew developers where working on ff 7 pc at the time. And for your imformation. It had to be published by a company Somwhere, squaresoft hadnt done a whole lot of pc titles. look into your facts before you lable them as bullshit. cause simple put you dont know what your talking about. Aperently.
Anyway no offence ment cannedsoup. But how can you call somthing bullshit When the information is Right out there and all you would have had to do was look it up? Eidos Is well known for For hireing Homebrew Coders from time to time. Team Silicon knights (Back in the days of crystal dynamics) up untill They where working on the very first blood omen legacy of kain game. I dont believe any of them had had finished collage at that time.

And quzar Thankx for the link Ive bookmarked it. Now I only wish I still had my dreamcast so I could check some of this stuff out :p I lost my dc a long time ago. But thanx For the link bro :p
There is no point in arguing with you anymore because you have very lil understand of what your talking about. Your the same guy that said forget psx emulation we should be porting ps1 games to psp.

[shadowprophet]

And it can be done too.Just the suggestion of you claiming that psx emulation on the psp is a better idea, then direct porting, suggest you dont know jack squat about source development/SDK kits , as for argueing with you I have better things to do with my time. let alone Do I even wish to argue over a tpoic as silly as this.
but you honesly dont know much of what you speak of on these issues do you ?

Now im going to turn around and walk away now. Reply however you feel necessary to justify yourself cannedsoup. Just dont exspect me to reply, I feel our little debate, has reached undesirible levels of comunication.

[quzar]

There is no point in arguing with you anymore because you have very lil understand of what your talking about. Your the same guy that said forget psx emulation we should be porting ps1 games to psp.

every heard of static binary translation? just for the record you seem to be as equally un-knowledgable as he does, so you really don't have a leg to stand on here.

[CannedSoup]

Thats just not pratical. The only real means of porting is with source code. Wouldnt doing that be almost as hard as reserve enginering.

[Cap'n 1time]

There is no point in arguing with you anymore because you have very lil understand of what your talking about. Your the same guy that said forget psx emulation we should be porting ps1 games to psp.

your trolling is really starting to annoy me. every thing you have posted here has been negative or an attempt to show you know more than everyone else. STOP.

[Onetonbullet]

^^My dad can beat up your dad still...^^

Quzar>Have you ever done any coding for the XBOX? Would you ever consider doing a PSP project?

[Onetonbullet]

Thats just not pratical. The only real means of porting is with source code. Wouldnt doing that be almost as hard as reserve enginering.

Sorry, That's just funny...
Spelling reverse in reverse :p

[shadow77]

Are there even emulators for the Sega Saturn or Nintendo 64? I mean we should be taking each generation at a time...cause someone posted that the SNES games need to be overclocked to run decently...how can we ever expect PS games to run anything over bare minimal.

Is there even an N64 emulator that exsists and works at all? I've not seen one...getting a good emulator whether it's ported or ground up from scratch will be beyond hard.

I remember the Bleemcast, it wasn't exactly the greatest emulator ever...it worked but it seemed slow and something was lacking in the graphics.

Time will tell about a PS emulator.

Well the thing is most emulators (such as the SNES9X one) are ports of the PC SNES9X, and as I said before if someone created a new SNES emulator coded from the ground up with the PSP in mind it would run much better. The problem is that I don't think all of the PSP hardware documentation has been released - official manuals on how to use the CPU, GPU, etc. So even porting is somewhat hard at this point.

There are N64 emulators for PC which run fine, but you need at least a 1GHz+ and a decent video card to get them working well, I really doubt N64 would be possible on PSP but the PS1 is a different story.

[MSX]

Well, I'm currently playing the translated version of Star Ocean for the SNES, and being able to replay Star Ocean: The Second Story on the PSP would be amazing :D.

[Cap'n 1time]

Well, I'm currently playing the translated version of Star Ocean for the SNES, and being able to replay Star Ocean: The Second Story on the PSP would be amazing :D.

glad im not the only one that enjoyed that game... everyone seems to think that game sucked. WELL IT ROCKED!

[shadowprophet]

You seem to be knowlagible on the sblect. Do you recomend amd or some other off brand. I Realize amd isnt the best in the universe compard to other unmentioned brand names like intell. my question is if you where to pick the perfect pc processor, what would it be in your opinion ? :confused:

[Onetonbullet]

^^It all depends on what you use your PC for most^^

AMD chips are cheaper, and are great for gaming because the memory controller runs at the chips clock speed (Instead of north bridge).

Intel chips are pricier, and they are best suited for "Grunt work", such as audio, and video encoding.

Ask a million people what chip is better and you'll get a new reason why this or that chip is better every time. I have a P4 2.4....

When I upgrade, I'm getting an Athlon 64, because of the reason above, and for the 64 bit capabilities...

[quzar]

Quzar>Have you ever done any coding for the XBOX? Would you ever consider doing a PSP project?

Neither. Until the opensdk becomes more mature it really isn't worth doing nice advanced stuff on xbox (by advanced I mean things that it can't run with). The reason I got into DC stuff other than owning one was for the challenge. With the xbox, no matter how much those coders complain they are working with very few limits.

As far as psp, I see it the same way (to a point). Right now it's development tools are very immature and early scene things are all about speed and not accuracy, complexity and compatability.

The only consoles other than Dreamcast I have considered trying out emulation on are the ngage/s60 cellphone line (mostly because I own a 6600) and the gba. The gba I discount almost immediately as a passing fancy simply because of the multitude of very dedicated and low level coders who have put out things already for it (basically there wouldn't be a point except purely to learn).


You seem to be knowlagible on the sblect. Do you recomend amd or some other off brand. I Realize amd isnt the best in the universe compard to other unmentioned brand names like intell. my question is if you where to pick the perfect pc processor, what would it be in your opinion ? :confused:
There really aren't such things as 'off brands' nowadays. There is Intel and AMD. Aside from them there are basically only two other RELATIVELY mainstream processor makers: Transmeta and Cyrix/VIA. Both of those companies specialize in low power usage embedded x86 processors though.

I reccomend AMD mostly for the great cost/performance ratio and the ability to tweak, hack, OC, and mod them (compared to intel).

[J@F]

I love it how people always say "coded from ground up" as if that is the holy grail of console emulation. Here's a little no-so-secret piece of info you should all know about bleemcast: the only reason it was coded in 100% asm is because that is what rand codes in.

Every single thing he has ever done has been 100% asm, he doesn't work any other way, and is most comfortable writing assembly for whatever machine rather than C or C++ or whatever else.

Around 90% of all code in an emulator (excluding processor emulation) cannot be made to be any faster simply by writing it in asm. There are two very important things to do in order to make a port as fast as possible (as fast as noticably possible): writing CPU emulators that are in one way or another optimized for the target processor (wether or not it's in asm) and writing A/V outputs that utilize the A/V hardware of the target console.
(EDIT: resource wise) Writing in assembly is almost always better. For most tasks, coding in assembly uses less resources, esspecially on embbeded systems. The part about making optimized emulators is absolutely right though.

[RedKing14CA]

so whose going to start making this emulator? i cant, i cant even make an eboot....

[quzar]

Writing in assembly is almost always better. For most tasks, coding in assembly uses less resources, esspecially on embbeded systems.

for almost everything it makes no difference. You can write the most optimized assembly you want, then do the same thing in C and get the assembly output from gcc with -O3 or -Os and it will be identical (if not better) than what you did originally yet it took 10x the amount of time and is 100x less readable.

[J@F]

are you talking about on the dreamcast, in general, or what? your right about it being a complex language, it's usually far better to use C.

[CannedSoup]

Only thing ASM is still good for is emulation cores. Thats why zsnes team is changing everything over to C thats not a core and wouldnt have any effects on the gameplay. Menus, special chip implemation stuff like that.

[quzar]

J@F I'm talking about everything. For the Dreamcast most people put out the conception that GCC is just ridiculously horrible, but that is not the case. What happens is that in certain circumstances it will generate horrible code, but in most cases it gives the best possible.

CS: That's not true. The reason they are changing to C is because PCs nowadays do not need it to be fully in assembly anymore, and it would be much easier to modify things with it in C. asm is still very usefull.

[CannedSoup]

They are still keeping the main emulation ascept of it in ASM though so I dont see how that would effect speed at all. I think its gonna be a bad thing that parts of it are in C now because your gonna here "ZSNES USES C NOW SO WILL SOMEONE PORT IT!!!!"

[J@F]

you would think, since you tell the computer exactly what to do and humans are smarter, a knowledgable ( probably won't have to be a genius) asm programer could find a whole lot of optimizations, that the compiler, even with the output to asm, would'nt have figured out.

anyways, my first post in this thread I was just tring to make the case that the technology in bleemcast might not have been a "single game emu" sighting that because of a number of non-technical issues (lawsuits, small company, dying dreamcast, and finacial problems) plus the fact that they coded in assembly (which, like you said, is like 10x harder)

to me, It read like you were saying "I" thought writing in assembly was a good idea ( which I noted was one of bleemcast's problems), since I was the only one I saw metioning asm. (some one could have edited there post I guess, I haven't been online in a number of days, so I didn't see peoples original posts) from scratch coding is always perferred if you can pull it off, but asm wasn't the from scratch I meant neccessarily.

but anough about asm or C someones just put out a psx emu maybe by the holiday season it will work satifactory, and you can buy yourself a 2gig duo and be set.