Religion

[souLLy]

agreed, see above

ahhh heh, I'm doing my best to stay out of this thread, I'll start going off and posting long rants and nobody wants to read those

[Accordion]

i wouldnt mind

[opiate81]

I like some of Richard Dawkins` views.. I think he is a smart man.. but he`s like the crazy christian on the corner unless you bend to his way of thinking youre going to his version of hell (stupidity here on earth)

same as another man who made the doco "The God who wasnt there"
you know how born again christians are a little bit over the top.. he`s like a born again athiest! so much hate towards the religion

extremists on both sides give their respective beliefs a bad name

[jman420]

I think at some point, you missed my point, its Not about God, its about the generalization of haveing strong beliefes ,that build strong character, If somone believed strongly enough in in a rubber band to give them hope and faith, to give them some sort of deeper meaning to life then just the every day grind, im fine with that, But my point was almost completely missed, here, yes , yes I do believe in God, but thats only a personal view.

My point Goes on to something that really wasnt conveyed properly in my first post. i believe, that unless someone has found something to give them hope in existance beyond death, they lead a shallow and empty life devoid of the happyness that hope, even if it was false hope, can give one in an otherwise hopless situation that is beyond our controll, my underline meaning behind the entire first post, was the natural human fear of death and the ways people cope with it.
death is an issue that for lack of proper words, terrifies me. It's a subjet I ponder more then any healthy person should, concidering the hold that the fear of it has over me.

Because if you put real thought into it bro, and i can see you have, religion, all religion. is little more then then a diversion to calm society of there own fear of death. ( thats not to say i dont hold true to my own beliefs~ I believe them fully. But come on, at the same time im not gullible and weak minded. there may be truth to some If not all religion, over time, differnt people with different views,,different launguages and different cultures, took religion in under there own perceptions, surely only a fool would expect the truth to be the same for everyone, everywhere in every culture.

Well... that makes more sence, but... I still have a problem with your theory of happyness...

okay, so I see what you mean about life after death an all... and wanting to go somewhere better... but, at what cost?? you spend your real life (the only one your going to have) trying to apese a figment in hopes that when you die, you go somewhere better...
why isnt the idea of good, spend your life on this rock as best as you can... not with the constant worry that your being watched, not with the idea that your going to be judged if you drink, or smoke, or have sex with your girlfriend before your married or whatever...

instead of these things, instead of doing everything they want to do, its always a restriction... its just because they want a better life when they die... and thats what I dont understand.. I want the best life now, because its the only one I'm going to get..

and if you dont mind me saying, I still dont get how the common christian has any better moral values then a person with strong ethical education.. I am currently taking a college philosophy class that has covered ethics... and although there is a theory of ethics based on "divine Command" I think that ethics lie somewhere else... not with this fear of dying and going to "HELL"

but just for kicks, I'll even example how the theory of "Divine Command" asks the question, and how it still doesent answer any ethical questions... so the theory of Divine Command asks: "How do we know God's will?"

the answers are:
the Bible, (book that several different people wrote without any real proof of information... aswell as the fact that it has been changed so many times, that its not even the same book anymore...)
and
teaching institutions, (these are things like churches, religious schools, places like this... but they can enforce their own beliefs on people without them even knowing... it becomes combiluted with the idea of God's will...)

both of these two answer the questions of what is right, and what is wrong... but, they do not answer how things are right or wrong.. you can ask a pastor, is it right for me to use cannabis for personal use? and he will answer no.. you can ask the bible if its right and (aside from it being a very one sided conversation) the bible will say yes (provided its not an abridged, edited version) and this will lead you to a problem with ethics even when considering God as your base for things...
when you consider all the other options for ethics and finding whats right and wrong, there are so many more things to consider then church, and a book... things like, "how do the pro's and con's measure out?" other options are things like, if it doesnt hurt anyone, and makes you happy, it is the right thing to do.. but if it hurts people, and makes you happy, it is the wrong thing to do..

(sorry to use Cannabis as the example, but I'm writing an ethics essay on that right now... so its whats in my mind)

these are just ethics, but at the same time, there are 5 other theories that do not corrilate with God, and have to do with human desire, and the right for humanity to exist for happyness, and not for God...


and just as a final question, if God existed, why would he force his "perfect" creation through a test, that you have a 99% chance of failing??

(by this I do not mean that people do the wrong things, but simply that all people are born with the so-called "original sin" and will go to hell anyway...)



but yeah, to anyone that is reading this page, take an intro to philosophy class... or just look for the book I used in the bibliography of the essay I wrote on this subject...

[acn010]

religion just makes people to have a purpose and organize, without religion we will be like disorganized animals..... in a way( were animals, i know)

[opiate81]

one question.. how can someone have better morals if theyre scared into having those morals
if one chooses to live by them of their own free will are they not a more highly evolved human?
christians may say its their free will thats lets them choose to live that way but they also choose to believe that they`ll get eternal damnation if they dont follow those guidelines

another thing.. how do you derive happiness from .. well any of the 3 books

The word laugh/laughter is mentioned only 9 times in the Quran 8 of them in the context
of ridicule or mockery as in: "Let them laugh a little: much will they weep" (009.082) or
"Those in sin used to laugh at those who believed" (083.029).
The Bible is not that much different the Old Testament, which consists of 24 Books,
mentions laugh/laughter all of 32 times in the New Testament which consists of 27 Books
laugh/laughter is mentioned just 6 times. For example, in James 4:9 it says: Be
afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to
heaviness.
(by contrast death/dead/slay/kill is mentioned 231 times in the Quran, 1,017 times in the
Old Testament, and 443 times in the New Testament.)
Humor and religion don't mix.

[shadowprophet]

Well... that makes more sence, but... I still have a problem with your theory of happyness...

okay, so I see what you mean about life after death an all... and wanting to go somewhere better... but, at what cost?? you spend your real life (the only one your going to have) trying to apese a figment in hopes that when you die, you go somewhere better...
why isnt the idea of good, spend your life on this rock as best as you can... not with the constant worry that your being watched, not with the idea that your going to be judged if you drink, or smoke, or have sex with your girlfriend before your married or whatever...

instead of these things, instead of doing everything they want to do, its always a restriction... its just because they want a better life when they die... and thats what I dont understand.. I want the best life now, because its the only one I'm going to get..

and if you dont mind me saying, I still dont get how the common christian has any better moral values then a person with strong ethical education.. I am currently taking a college philosophy class that has covered ethics... and although there is a theory of ethics based on "divine Command" I think that ethics lie somewhere else... not with this fear of dying and going to "HELL"

but just for kicks, I'll even example how the theory of "Divine Command" asks the question, and how it still doesent answer any ethical questions... so the theory of Divine Command asks: "How do we know God's will?"

the answers are:
the Bible, (book that several different people wrote without any real proof of information... aswell as the fact that it has been changed so many times, that its not even the same book anymore...)
and
teaching institutions, (these are things like churches, religious schools, places like this... but they can enforce their own beliefs on people without them even knowing... it becomes combiluted with the idea of God's will...)

both of these two answer the questions of what is right, and what is wrong... but, they do not answer how things are right or wrong.. you can ask a pastor, is it right for me to use cannabis for personal use? and he will answer no.. you can ask the bible if its right and (aside from it being a very one sided conversation) the bible will say yes (provided its not an abridged, edited version) and this will lead you to a problem with ethics even when considering God as your base for things...
when you consider all the other options for ethics and finding whats right and wrong, there are so many more things to consider then church, and a book... things like, "how do the pro's and con's measure out?" other options are things like, if it doesnt hurt anyone, and makes you happy, it is the right thing to do.. but if it hurts people, and makes you happy, it is the wrong thing to do..

(sorry to use Cannabis as the example, but I'm writing an ethics essay on that right now... so its whats in my mind)

these are just ethics, but at the same time, there are 5 other theories that do not corrilate with God, and have to do with human desire, and the right for humanity to exist for happyness, and not for God...


and just as a final question, if God existed, why would he force his "perfect" creation through a test, that you have a 99% chance of failing??

(by this I do not mean that people do the wrong things, but simply that all people are born with the so-called "original sin" and will go to hell anyway...)



but yeah, to anyone that is reading this page, take an intro to philosophy class... or just look for the book I used in the bibliography of the essay I wrote on this subject...

The problem with the bible and church, is they are some what seperated. Ive asked those very same questsions. The bible sais to take the herbs of the earth and use them.

however there are many things people dont know about pot. Pot as we know it hasnt always been around, the hemp plant has always been, but it didnt always have thc in it.
Pot, it a crossbreed between hemp. and some other fern, I forget the name.

( however reguardless of that, Both plants where herbs, and I assume the creator saw this hybrid comeing at some point)

But pot as we know it has only exisisted for a few hundred years, And historicly has been proven to have been a creation of man. * this is as i understand it is the history of marijuana- however dont directly quote me on that, because even I dont know everything. ;p This is just the way I heard it lol .

Now as for the reasons the church has strong feelings aginst drugs and alcahol, come down to one stipulation. *obey mans laws, for what is true on earth shall be true in heaven.

If a law of the land is made here on earth. and you break that law. Even in gods eyes, You have broken the law and thusly sinned. ( provided the law isnt an unreasonible alienation of our own God given rights.

I hope that clears that up some what bro :thumbup:

[gunntims0103]

time traveling people from the future wrote and encoded the bible to predict future events and ultimitly prevent them. There is a God or at least a higher being. jesus will show himself to all as a comit and assumpt all believers and leave the rest on earth

i don't really know truthfully

[jman420]

one question.. how can someone have better morals if theyre scared into having those morals
if one chooses to live by them of their own free will are they not a more highly evolved human?
christians may say its their free will thats lets them choose to live that way but they also choose to believe that they`ll get eternal damnation if they dont follow those guidelines

another thing.. how do you derive happiness from .. well any of the 3 books

The word laugh/laughter is mentioned only 9 times in the Quran 8 of them in the context
of ridicule or mockery as in: "Let them laugh a little: much will they weep" (009.082) or
"Those in sin used to laugh at those who believed" (083.029).
The Bible is not that much different the Old Testament, which consists of 24 Books,
mentions laugh/laughter all of 32 times in the New Testament which consists of 27 Books
laugh/laughter is mentioned just 6 times. For example, in James 4:9 it says: Be
afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to
heaviness.
(by contrast death/dead/slay/kill is mentioned 231 times in the Quran, 1,017 times in the
Old Testament, and 443 times in the New Testament.)
Humor and religion don't mix.

NOW THATS WHAT I'M TALKIN' BOUT'!
I agree fully, granted it takes away and put's down religion, I do agree that humans that think for themselves, and work on a theory of ethics (thats best for all) are more intellegent people.. it may seem strannge, but at the same time, its not a desire for the information to be handed to you... its not a way to always have a guide beside you, it means that your life is your own, and no figment or person has to be there to tell you what your ethics should be... I live for myself, never harm others, want to live in peace, and be what most people would refer to as a "hippie" without the proposision of God smiting me, and sending me to a place of eternal evil... just because I lived my life as a human, and not as a sheep, following what the so-called shepard said... there is no shepard now, there might have been once, but as I have considered (if God did once exist) once Jesus died, it seems like all of earth was SOL... (at least looking at the christian view) because there was no longer a guide, we were all just left alone for 2000 years now, to fend for ourselves... and if God is going to send me to hell for trying to think for myself, I think that we have one F%$KED UP DICTATOR!

just another thing I have considered recently is the idea of creation... if you think about the universe, (it gives me a headache) and I'm sure everyone else is the same way... if you honestly think about the reason for life on this rock, going around a giant ball of flaming gas, along with 8 other celestial objects, all within a group of stars held in a circle by Sygnis X1 (The Milky Way's black hole) in a universe of uncountable other galaxies of the same shape and size... you realize that there has to be a reason... but because most people are dumb (or just oblivious(or just dont care)) this is automaticly sent to the arguement of God, as the reason.. the people that accualy think about reason, and arent confused by a creator, can see the other reasons...
for instance, Cygnis X1, Milky Way's black hole, is whats holding our galaxy together, its the reason we are not floating around in space smashing into other stars and what-not... but at the same time, our sun is what's keeping Earth from crashing into other planets and stars and what-not..
I guess what I'm getting at is: Reason, over God...
Reason is what is created by humans to explain things (science if you will)
God was created by humans to explain things with no evedence or logic involved... simply just the easiest way to explain everything....


now! onto Pot.... people have accualy found THC resin on a rock in the mountians of the middle east and asia, dating back about 4000 years.. granted Cannabis (the plant) has not become widely used since the last few hundred years.. it was there for 3800 years before, and probobly even before that...

you can quote me, because believe it or not, I have researched and learned all I can about every drug on earth... (no, I havent used them, I just know everything about them, their origin, and what they do)

[shadowprophet]

NOW THATS WHAT I'M TALKIN' BOUT'!
I do agree that humans that think for themselves, and work on a theory of ethics (thats best for all) are more intellegent people..

That. statment was very carefully worded, So dont mistake my generalization argument, as directly aimed at you.

However this subjet does demand cross examination.

Since the dawn of exisistance, People have used this logic, Ohh these people believe in things they can not prove, in things i don't understand, therefore they must be unintelligent....

This narrow minded thinking shows its own ignorance if you put some thought into it.

Just because someone feels more comfortable in a group of people that follow a certain belief, doesn't mean there mentally weak if you where to ask me, I would say it shows intelligence in it's own right.

Even right now all of us flock to the forums for one reason or another, in an almost ritualistic manor, carry out our daily repetitive tasks, because we find something in this repetitive task we need.

humans are followers,learners, by nature.
in one turn those who proclaim mental independence of societies strong hold, while following the examples of there own roll models, seems very narrow minded to me.

The truth is. Even the most independent thinkers of all time , follow there own roll models examples. And i think that Just because people have a problem with God doesn't give them the right to go about (~insulting,~ insulting may be too harsh a word :\) others intelligence.

i can only think a truly enlightened individual would be more open minded toward other beliefs regarding intelligence and other cultures,even if those other cultures are directly adverse to them :thumbup: