Conspiracy Theorys

[splodger15]

Ok...

I've been recently discussing with a friend about conspiracy theorys he pointed me to these videos :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ



We then moved onto the subject of the WTC attacks he is claiming that demolitions were used in the attacks since I believe there is no facts in this "claim" I still believe that the planes were hijacked and hit the WTC. Does anyone have any concrete evidence that I can shoot down some of these claims.

[bah]

I wouldnt beleive most of what you hear. The fact the administration stil has not released the footage they seized from cameras that could disprove many of the claims is the thing that gives any of them any credibility.

WTC7 just falling down like a controlled demolition from a small fire on one floor was certainly odd, the terrorists names not being on the flight manifests was also odd. Or what about this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm), I don't like all those prisonplanet etc sites, they seem to just be looking to profit from it all. When the BBC has an article like this it raises questions for me though. Did fox news etc in the USA ever pick up on this story?

Then again, you would think anyone who could create such a 'hoax' would be smart enough to have thought of that......


I think its best to stick to what the administration has done since 9/11 using it as justification for things they never could have gotten away with, had it not happened. Everything was/is justified by fighting the 'war' on terrorism.

Regardless of what happened that day, it's what's happening today that matters most.


I saw all 3 parts of Zeitgeist a while back, its very typical conspiracy theory in its presentation. Everything is presented as researched fact when it is mostly speculation with no or poor references.
They do themselves a great disservice by tying 9/11, Christianity and the fed into one package and making highly debatable claims.

They say that Christianity is a bastardisation of egyptian sun worship (saying they personified the sun in jesus christ and built on that). One 'fact' is that Christmas falls on the same date as some solstice the Egyptians celebrated.

They completely miss the fact that a pope a long while back changed the date of Christmas to what is is now to have it replace those solstice celebrations with a Christian event.

Being agnotic with strong athiest tendancies I loved hearing all about how christianity is a complete rippoff of a previous (polytheistic) religion and seeing the religous people try to defend their doctine (to which i give little credence, but for other reasons).

The thing is they had good answers to many of the points raised in the video. The creators of it had clearly not done much if any 'devils advocate' research where they tried to disprove their own conclusions before claiming them as fact.

If there's one thing religious people can do, its analyse a text over and over and over and know every detail of its history. It's not scientific because its based on faith that the text holds meaning and not by testing to see if what it says is true, but they certainly know how to study/pass on information about their faith.


Science and religion are not in competition. The former is a means of coping and philosophising about the meaning of life. The latter is the bringing together of all the tested observations man has made and the inferences based on them that help us live (arguably) better/easier lives.

N.b. I'm not some crazy conspiracy nut. I'm just sceptical of the poor official answers a little as well as being very sceptical of the conspiracy theories

[pibs]

yeah that Zeitgeist video got me thinking but 911 was planned by the terrorist not the government and completely caught the US off guard. As humans we seem to look for the most comprehensible reasoning to comfort us in rough situations. Innocent people died and all the public wants to do is point fingers to get some attention, and yet we all know who did it...... but our ignorance gets the best of us.

[quzar]

If you want to read a lot on conspiracy theory stuff, freenet is the place to go. The whole "extreme anonymity" and transience makes it a haven for nutjobs, paranoids, anarchists, and weird political movements.

Most conspiracy theories are efforts of people looking for ways to prove preconceived notions or disprove official statements. When the resulting goal preceeds investigation and evidence, you can prove anything you want ;).

http://127.0.0.1:8888/USK@rvpJvobv8hMjshSivdybYliUoCPPyPbYfXWlvUecnQ4,1X l621v23Fq1nctSV4-0JCUrn~djAS492mxb4ujE-pE,AQACAAE/Anarchaphiles/3/

[ExcruciationX]

Bah, it would be awesome if you came to my school. It's a bunch of ****ing idiots, and I'd love to see 'em get owned.

How much do you want?

[gelnika]

It's simple. Don't believe everything you hear. I remember when that Loose Change 911 video came out, it made convincing statements...but simply was not logical. But then again its good to keep an open mind....i mean, you never know.

[bah]

I think much of the increased popularity of conspiracy theories in the public mind stems from the complete polarisation of issues in the mainstream media (that is supposed to supply news not opinion, that's for the viewer to discuss with friends and decide).
So much talk of 'us' Vs 'them' and 'good' (apparently us at the moment) Vs 'Evil'.

The world has far more depth than 32bit colour, trying to make it black and white is for lawyers and politicians (that's why we hate them, drawing a line in the sand is always unpopular with someone).

I know this is off topic, but do schools in the USA/UK teach about the opium wars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars)?
Britain went to war with china and took control of Hong Kong (only to recently be returned) because china opposed the British selling opium (heroin) to the Chinese masses.
Britain waged war because selling drugs was in it's interest and china opposed to it profiting.

Think about that for a minute next time you hear of the evil people overseas. The world is very very complex and even we elect politicians who act in 'our interest' (to keep us relatively wealthy), not to do what's morally right. Can we expect better of the much poorer 'evil doers'?

'There are no facts, only interpretations.' - Friedrich Nietzsche



ExcruciationX: I'm no use in real life, there's no edit button.
I'm very often wrong, I just bother to put my opinion out there and look into things that interest me/when people correct me.


EDIT (must quote bill hicks, you may all take it literally but there is much wisdom in his words IMO):


'The World is like a ride in an amusement park, and when you choose to go on it you think it’s real, because that’s how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round, and it has thrills and chills and is very brightly coloured, and it’s very loud. And it’s fun, for a while.

Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they’ve begun to question, ‘Is this real, or is this just a ride?’, and other people have remembered, and they’ve come back to us and they say ‘Hey, don’t worry. Don’t be afraid, ever, because this is just a ride.’ and we............. KILL THOSE PEOPLE.

“Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride! SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry. Look at my big bank account, and my family. This has to be real.”

It’s just a ride.

But we always kill those good guys who try and tell us that. You ever noticed that? And let the demons run amok. But it doesn’t matter, because … It’s just a ride.

And we can change it any time we want. It’s only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings of money. A choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear wants you to put bigger locks on your door, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love, instead see all of us as one.

Here’s what we can do to change the world right now, to a better ride:

Take all that money we spent on weapons and defence each year and instead spend it feeding, clothing, and educating the poor of the world, which it would many times over, not one human being excluded, and WE CAN EXPLORE SPACE, TOGETHER, BOTH INNER AND OUTER, forever … in peace.'

[bah]

Double post but the last one was long enough.

Can anyone give a reasonable explanation for this:

GEPjOi2dQSM

Of all the 9/11 conspiracy reports I've read/watched, WTC7 is the thing that interests me the most.
A seemingly small fire, contained to a few stories, then falls to the ground in a manner that resembles controlled demolition more than anything else.
The 2 main WTC towers could be seen to crumble from the level of impact on video. Loose change makes an issue of explosives in the basement, but if that's correct how did they fall from the exact level of the planes impact?

WTC7 appears (on all footage I've seen) to just fall into itself as you see in other controlled demolitions that take out crucial support columns at a low level in a way that causes the building to fall in on itself.

Is it editing, where something major happened to that fire between it looking minor and the building just imploding? If so can anyone point to a video or explanation of this?

So much conjecture and so few answers.

[ExcruciationX]

It's an online school.

[NoQuarter]

You guy's should look at some of the theories concerning the Oklahoma City Bombing,crazy stuff...

You want the Big Daddy of all conspiracy theory books:

Behold A Pale Horse by William Cooper.

He was assassinated in his home shortly after 911.

[mike_jmg]

I'll share my grain of sand

I have a friend whose relatives are from the US, she said they told her that all the time there is this sort of terrorist alert on the TV, and depending on how much threat there was, it changed from green to yellow and then to red. She says that all the time it was on red or yellow and never came down. So all the northamericans feel like Bush is their savior (then he got re-elected). But everyone else not living in the US knows that they never found the WMDs they where "looking for" (if there ever were), and that they just wanted the oil from middle east.
Now that's a conspiracy.

edit: ohh, and that supposedly Bush knew about 9/11 before it happened and he let it pass

[Eviltaco64]

Well you have to remember that radical Islamics bombed the WTC in 1993, and Clinton didnt do a thing about it...And where was Bush then? Governor of Texas? And practically anything you see now on TV/Internet/Media (which is mainly operated by Liberals that push enough propaganda down people's throats) in general potrays him as a retarted monkey. So I'm guessing that while he was Governor of Texas, he used all the intelligence he's known for having to plan out that Q33 NY in Wingdings is a plane going toward two towers with a skull and crossbone next to the Jewish Star. He thanked the internets for giving the Republicans 10 years of 9/11.

To make a long, confusing story short, I'm not really sure what happened, and I cant prove that. But how are you going to believe that the man is an evil intelligent mastermind that planned out this whole thing AND that he's a retarted Texan monkey that has a hard time pronouncing simple words?
And who are the ones really pushing this? The majority of the Media of course. Which is owned by the opposing party. Since a lot of the media already had their foot in the door for years, they can say whatever the hell they want about well...anything. They make some politicians (primarily Republicans) look extremely corrupt. While if any evidence is found on Obama or Hillary, it's the corrupt Republicans twisting the story around. And, if you notice, the "honest" media gets the majority of their puppets to move on from things that happened in the past.

So, overall, the intelligent ones are the liberals to tell you the truth. They took over the media, turned a lot of the country against itself, and anyone who loves it is a bitchy WWII veteran or an ignorant redneck. Meanwhile, they make themselves look like the innocent ones, and control mass audiences with puppet strings. Although I disagree with the majority of their policies, I must say, hats off to them for being two times as corrupt as Bush supposedly is and then making themselves look like the good guys. And once this country is completely down the shitter (and youll be paying an extra 10% out of your paycheck for Hillary's ingenious universal health care), I'll see you in Australia ;)

[ICE]

They say that Christianity is a bastardisation of egyptian sun worship (saying they personified the sun in jesus christ and built on that). One 'fact' is that Christmas falls on the same date as some solstice the Egyptians celebrated.

They completely miss the fact that a pope a long while back changed the date of Christmas to what is is now to have it replace those solstice celebrations with a Christian event.

Being agnotic with strong athiest tendancies I loved hearing all about how christianity is a complete rippoff of a previous (polytheistic) religion and seeing the religous people try to defend their doctine (to which i give little credence, but for other reasons).

The thing is they had good answers to many of the points raised in the video. The creators of it had clearly not done much if any 'devils advocate' research where they tried to disprove their own conclusions before claiming them as fact.

If there's one thing religious people can do, its analyse a text over and over and over and know every detail of its history. It's not scientific because its based on faith that the text holds meaning and not by testing to see if what it says is true, but they certainly know how to study/pass on information about their faith.


I would like to show you my comments on the Zeitgeist film. This film came up on a different forum and heres what I said.

This guy has absolutley no clue what hes talking about. He says that theres an invisible man in the sky and if you do one thing wrong on the list of ten things not to do you'll go to hell. Not only is that not the way it works hes mocking Christianity at the same time. Hes mocking it while he lies to you about. He says god needs money. Ive said this over and over that NO WHERE in the bible does it say to give your money to to set up institutions like these large super churches. It says to give what you don't need to those who do. God doesnt need our money but we're privileged and others may need what we have to give. NOT the ones who don't need it.

They say Horus, the Egyptian sun god, was born of a virgin named Isis Mary. It turns out that at NO POINT does the Egyptian literature EVER mention the name Mary or that Horus was born of a virgin. They lied again. Blatantly. Horus was the son of Osiris NOT virgin born. Next They say Horus was born on Dec. 25th. Again out right lies. He was said to have been born in the month of Khoiak (Oct/Nov). Besides that anyone with any clue of Christianity knows Jesus wasnt born on Dec 25th..

Next, the film states that a star in the East announced his birth and that three kings came to bring gifts to the “savior.” However, when stories detailing the birth of Horus are examined, there is no star or three kings who come to visit him. Trying to link this to Christianity fails in any event as the account of Christ’s birth in Matthew has magi (wise men, not kings) coming to Jesus with their actual number not being stated. Finally, the movie calls Horus a “savior.” There are no descriptions of Horus being a savior to anyone or serving in that capacity.

the movie takes extreme liberty in the quick and subtle uses of Christian words and phrases that in no way accurately describe the actual pagan god or his attributes. This is seen again in the statements made of Horus being “baptized” and starting a “ministry.” The only accounts remotely related to Horus and water are the stories told of Osiris (his father who is sometimes combined in ancient accounts with Horus to form one individual) whose body was cut up into 14 pieces by his enemy, Set, and scattered throughout the earth. Isis supposedly found each part of the body and after having Osiris float in the Nile, he came back to life or became the lord of the underworld, depending on which account is read. In any event, stating that Horus was “baptized” is simply playing fast and loose with Christian terminology.

I feel like I could watch this whole movie and step by step discount everything these liars say but I don't think I need to. If you watch this I beg you to not just take everything these liars say as truth. This is nothing but propaganda and it should be taken as a grain of salt.

[NoQuarter]

Yeah I've heard of this Zeitgeist movie but haven't felt like watching it.I love to read about conspiracies but some people go to far.DAVID ICKE for instance...
That man's poor brain,I like a lot of salt in my diet.LOL

Seriously kids don't believe everything,funny me saying that but when people believe bullshite it's a lot harder to see the truth.It's kinda like security through obsfucation.All of the people who play homebrew on psp's and xbox's know this security method does not work.

Don't get me wrong I believe in quite a few theories,but after reading ICE's post obviously the zeitgeist is full of crap.
Guess I'll have to watch it myself.

There are propaganda and reverse machines in place throughout worldwide big media,thank god for the internet.

[Accordion]

Zeitgeist and Loose Change are awful

Surely it isnt a very good conspiracy if so many people know about it…

I need scissors! 61!

[ICE]

There for a second I was scared that everyone here would be like "Zeitgeist is awesome and its all true man!". Good thing that didnt happen. I would have to leave then lol.

[SSaxdude]

I know this is off topic, but do schools in the USA/UK teach about the opium wars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars)?
Britain went to war with china and took control of Hong Kong (only to recently be returned) because china opposed the British selling opium (heroin) to the Chinese masses.
Britain waged war because selling drugs was in it's interest and china opposed to it profiting.

Think about that for a minute next time you hear of the evil people overseas. The world is very very complex and even we elect politicians who act in 'our interest' (to keep us relatively wealthy), not to do what's morally right. Can we expect better of the much poorer 'evil doers'?


I remember learning a little bit about the Opium Wars last year in my world history class. This year I'm in American history and we learned about the prohibition of the 1920s. Not surprising, they never taught us about the Marijuana Tax Law of 1937.

[Shadowblind]

Simple. The president for the US was chosen before the elections even started. Believe what you want. ;)

[NoQuarter]

Simple. The president for the US was chosen before the elections even started. Believe what you want. ;)

Agreed.

It is the wealthy who run everything and put on the dog and pony show for us.

[ICE]

O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.

With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!

From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.