How does the Xbox (a PC) do it??? (to startup like a console?)

[MrTeressaBond]

I dont know if this is the right place for this but as we all know, the Xbox is literally a home PC, due to the fact that it is made up of computer parts u could almost get off the selve (although some are custom built but still operate as a PC).

however, How does the Xbox startup like a console? i mean, usually it go through like the whole bios thing and stuff, but i have seen it operates like any other console, where it gives us the bootscreen (animated!) and would boot up the game.

i hope u get what i mean, but i just cant get my head around that fact, cause i jsut had a small idea if i could do something similar.

can someone help me on this? as well technically?

[lmtlmt]

nope, it is not "literally" a home pc

[bah]

Its pretty damn close to a PC in hardware.

To quote Wikipedia:
'The Xbox is based on commodity PC hardware and runs a stripped-down version of the Windows 2000 kernel using APIs based largely on DirectX 8.1. however, it also incorporates changes optimized for gaming and multimedia uses as well as restrictions designed to prevent uses not approved by Microsoft.'

The BIOS either doesn't have any video output on boot, or its just hidden by playing the animated intro.
It and the operating system are both very minimal and optimised, so it boots faster than a PC running XP.

Games run much better than a similar specced PC because the hardware is standardised and developers can optimise the game for that exact setup rather than the millions of possible PC hardware combinations that directX and/or game developers have to deal with.
No detail settings needed because they developers know how it will look/run on your system.

Just because it's PC (x86) hardware doesnt mean it runs windows, or displays the BIOS info on startup (many motherboards hide it with a boot logo).
Some Asus motherboards have had an 'instant on' feature (http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/10/07/0614246.shtml) using a small linux OS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splashtop) for a while now. You can boot into that minimal environment and use firefox and a few other apps in about 5 seconds, or boot into windows/other full OS as normal.

It's just some extra code in the BIOS and some flash storage attached to run/store the minimal environment.


If you want a fully featured modern OS that boots anywhere near as quickly as an xbox you're not going to get it with windows 2K/XP/Vista without stripping out a lot of components. You could put it in standby instead but that's not really turning it off.
You could quite likely find a fully featured linux distro that will load quicker than windows.


My PC boots XP to the login screen in about 20-25 secs and then loads things for another 5 or 10 at most and is then its 100%.
Unless this is a laptop, in which case you would just put it in standby by closing it, how often are you turning the PC on/off in a day that makes booting as normal painful?

[masterchief929]

it doesn't have a buch of programs running in the background. next time u start ur pc check the processes and u will see wat im talking about.

[MrTeressaBond]

i see.

thats understandable, but i am also refering to other consoles as well, even though they are not PC parts, but they do resemble them and that we know they all contain a BIOS. how does it bypass it? or not have it load up like a PC does with an animated video (which is usually the startup).

AND can this be done myself? as in, i would by PC parts and have someone do a little programming to enable to get somewhere.

[bah]

They do not display BIOS info on boot because they are not programmed to do so. It doesn't bypass anything.


That information can be useful in troubleshooting a PC so it is displayed by default.

Do macs display any of it?
Probably not, they're all about form over function.


I really cant be bothered researching it for you, but I'm pretty sure there's an option in many BIOSs to not display the info and just show a motherboard logo instead.

The image it shows would be stored on the BIOS, it may be possible to modify it by flashing a modified firmware. I've never heard anything about that though, never cared to look.


Modern PCs will sometimes show the video card bios, then the motherboard boot screen or BIOS info, then the HDD info from the BIOS, then the windows load screen.

Going from power on to the windows load screen only takes a cpl seconds, is it really worth the hassle to try and make it show an image instead?

I would think speeding up the total load time with more memory, less programs loading on startup etc would be more useful.


Edit : You could try looking for a 'show logo' and/or 'fast boot' or similar options in your BIOS and try enabling them. This will only show a motherboard logo instead of the text however.

[Accordion]

Do macs display any of it?
Probably not, they're all about form over function.
.

Macs dont have BIOS, PPC Macs have Open Firmware, and Intel Macs use EFI

You dont see a Bios screen because there isnt one to see, it not being hidden.

[bah]

Good point regarding EFI.

They don't show any equivalent initialization info then. I meant hidden in his terms; i.e. it shows a graphic or GUI instead of system info.

[Accordion]

It is more efficient keeping such information out of view unless called.

Don't all the current consoles run processors based on PPC architecture anyway?
BIOS is intended for x86.

I guess that consoles run Open Firmware similar firmware due to its more efficient boot up and user friendliness.

[quzar]

Macs dont have BIOS, PPC Macs have Open Firmware, and Intel Macs use EFI

You dont see a Bios screen because there isnt one to see, it not being hidden.

Both Firmware and EFI (the F stands for firmware ;) ) are simply renamed forms of BIOS. In fact, all BIOS systems in computers are firmwares both by academic and common definitions (common definition tends to require as a large portion the ability to update).

Just like any program, the BIOS is written specifically to give text output, which is useful for diagnosis and such. It's quite easy to remove that, and wouldn't seriously impact operation if there is nothing to change.

[MrTeressaBond]

therefore would it be possible to get computer parts and somewhat make a home-made console, programmed simply to play games from a certain console? :D

its a small and secret project a friend and I are doing, and would like all the help we can get.

[Accordion]

therefore would it be possible to get computer parts and somewhat make a home-made console, programmed simply to play games from a certain console? :D

its a small and secret project a friend and I are doing, and would like all the help we can get.

Possible…yes.

But why?

Either have the added benefit of a fully functional PC or use the console in question.

Wouldn't simply having a partition for the emulator be more efficient.

[bah]

If by 'play games from a certain console' you mean 'load straight into an emulator for a certain console*', then yes.
If you mean 'building your own ps3' then no.

As Accordion said
'But why?'

Assuming you're running XP, just:


delete or move all desktop icons
disable my computer etc showing on desktop
turn on large icons in display properties
auto hide the taskbar
disable prompting for a password on start up (assuming this is a single user PC)
set some gaming themed wallpaper
create shortcuts to your favourite emulator(s) on the desktop
done


Took all of 2 minutes, looks pretty uncluttered, still have a fully functional PC.

Buy a cheap dual shock rip-off USB controller from ebay etc, do a fresh OS install and don't install crap that loads on start up if you want it to boot faster.

You could use msconfig (start|run|msconfig|ok) to just disable some of the things that are already loading on start up instead, don't mess with settings you don't understand though.


The project can't be too secret if your telling and requesting help on public forums... :)




* Assuming you know there is an accurate emulator for that system that runs full speed on your hardware.

[MrTeressaBond]

well not exactly, because (i dont know if i am using the right term) it will be 'hardware emulated' as in the PC parts will be there to emulate the console, and will run directly (of course with a little bit of programming).

with added functions, like AA and AF. and because of its whole power (the PC parts will of course be way mroe powerful than the hardware of these consoles) the games should not lag or stutter whatsoever.


The project can't be too secret if your telling and requesting help on public forums...

well i relaised this for awhile, because i somewhat needed help alot from the experts (you lot!) but it cannot get any further than this until needed. Also, there's more to this than what i mentioned :D

[bah]

Good luck with that.

[pibs]

I am thinking this is somewhat in the lines of what you want?
http://www.tmsoft.com/article-arcade.htm

I am gathering up the parts to build one myself.

[MrTeressaBond]

hahahaha, now that one is funny, but somewhat, mine is near the edge of that line, but way more advanced and possibly more complicated.

i'll but this as an example, a machine, made of PC components, to 'hardware emulate' a Sega Dreamcast, OR a Sega Saturn (known to be ever so complicated itself).

[MrTeressaBond]

anyone may i ask?

[MrTeressaBond]

anyone at all?

also, does every console HAVE an Operating System? so it can be programmed to do this and that? OR is it all done within the hardware?

[quzar]

This is one of those "if you have to ask, you won't be able to do it" situations that come up oh so much. Yes, one could build a PC that would be able to hardware emulate a system, but that would require basically having all the components of that systems hardware present, or compatible things. One could probably also write some funky windows scripts that would allow autoboot to a game instead of explorer. Taken a step further, you could rewrite a motherboard's bios (there are a few boards out there that were popular enough with the modding community that the structure of the bios, and writing for it is pretty well documented, a DFI lanparty board comes to mind) so that it does fast checks and displays a spiffy animated logo (my vaio laptop has a setting that allows one to display either the POST information text or an animated logo) and then boots into the modified windows.

In fact, many modern (and older) arcade machines were simply modified PCs. Since most arcade machines have POST messages anyways, it wasn't too big a deal to just make them PCs.

[MrTeressaBond]

oh i see, thats very interesting, but because i want a somewhat direct hardware emulate, i am going to oppose using Windows, and thus use something like Linux, also due to its speed.

so basically, i would want a machine that would instantly recognize what disc or game you put in and it would simply boot it like if it were the original console. would that be possible?

also, this would all seem to not work without the BIOS of course of the console(s) itself, so im going to do it the legal way of simply dumping them myself, to avoid any lawsuits or copyright, trying to proof that we are taking measures or not breaking the law! :D

[MrTeressaBond]

anyone at all may i ask?

[VampDude]

anyone at all may i ask?

Ask Microsoft. :p

[mike_jmg]

oh i see, thats very interesting, but because i want a somewhat direct hardware emulate, i am going to oppose using Windows, and thus use something like Linux, also due to its speed.

so basically, i would want a machine that would instantly recognize what disc or game you put in and it would simply boot it like if it were the original console. would that be possible?

also, this would all seem to not work without the BIOS of course of the console(s) itself, so im going to do it the legal way of simply dumping them myself, to avoid any lawsuits or copyright, trying to proof that we are taking measures or not breaking the law! :D

it would be really cool if you can pull that off

[MrTeressaBond]

it will be definately cool!

but i just want some answers here answered, unless they can direct me to a place where they can be.

basically, can i get PC hardware and use it to make a (simple) custom made console to hardware emulate directly games from different generation SEGA consoles?

[MrTeressaBond]

anyone at all may i ask?

[Mark30001]

I don't think anyone on this forum would able to assist you (even after the many times this thread was bumped).

You have to ask this on PC or technical forum, even though I would think that this is impossible or honestly not even worth the effort.