When a PSmonkey & a Q3 BSP map mix!!

[PSmonkey]

They make unspeakable horror.

So here it is in picture form.
*note, if reading from the website. Click comments to see the pictures*

[PSmonkey]

Heh, Anyways today I started screwing around with the psp cube sample to learn how to do 3d on the psp. Well with some headakes, frustration & many unanswered questions the final result is this.

Here is a test BSP rendering demo. I need to implement a basic camera system (currently just offseting and rotating around the origin) & posibly textures or lightmaps. Once I do that, I will probably release a simple demo for people to play with.

[PSmonkey]

Ok time for some updates. I implemented lightmaps which makes everything look even better. Sadly no textures yet since I have not set that up.

I did a few test run with even official quake 3 maps and it ran quite nicely.

ATM, i ran into some issues today with my cos/sin not working so the camera just screws up. :(

Oh well get some more improvements tonight and posibly release a build soon.

[Cap'n 1time]

Am I to understand that these are pics of the Quake 3 engine running on PSP? cause.... thats damn cool :)

[PSmonkey]

Well close. It's a simple rendering demo that can render a quake 3 map with lightmaps. Still have yet to sort out texturing (my pc version does 2nd pass textures to allow for texturing & lightmaps).

In good time it will be a freeware 3d engine that suports loading and using quake 3 bsp maps & character data. :D

--edit--
Few updates. I knew what my sin/cos issue was. I did not realise that the psp rotation is based on radians and not deg. So converting radians (which i though was deg) to radians caused for my numbers to screw up.

--edit 2--
A build last night was submitted into the dcemu 30 day compo. So people will get to try this out very soon. :D :D

[Cap'n 1time]

Just how capable will this engine be? Do you think full fledged games could be made, or just simple 3D demos? Is this a supermegaultimate-yeti3D for PSP?

[PSmonkey]

Its not determined yet but hopefuly enough someone can write their own 1st person / 3rd person action game. :)

So think of it as the psp vesion of quake engine / yetti3d.

oh btw, you can go try out the recent build here.
http://psp-news.dcemu.co.uk/psp30codingcomp.shtml

[phagomaniac]

Hi you asked about which axis was mixed up, well I can't really tell. But from your description it could well be your new 'z' axis. Take a look below at my screenshots. The first is from the PSP the second is straight from Quake 3. I'm standing in the same place (approx.) in both shots.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4682/cpm12mirrored7fk.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7251/cpm120hh.jpg

The map is CPM12 and is distributed in CPMA map pack 3. CPMA website is www.promode.org and the map pack is found here:
http://www.challenge-tv.com/index.php?mode=filedetail&file=51

CPM12 renders really nicely with next to nothing missing and the bsp is about 3.5MB. Some of the teleports were even drawn :)

I hope you can sort it out easily.

I also had a go a loading other Quake 3 engine maps with mixed results. I managed to load a Wolf:ET map in your viewer. I tried MOHAA without sucess (it crashed with random colour garbage) and I needed a bigger memory stick for Call of Duty and was unable to test it. That was all Q3 engine games I have installed atm.

[Cap'n 1time]

simply amazing! this is looking very good... where on earth did you get the idea to do this?

[PSmonkey]

Hi you asked about which axis was mixed up, well I can't really tell. But from your description it could well be your new 'z' axis. Take a look below at my screenshots. The first is from the PSP the second is straight from Quake 3. I'm standing in the same place (approx.) in both shots.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4682/cpm12mirrored7fk.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7251/cpm120hh.jpg

The map is CPM12 and is distributed in CPMA map pack 3. CPMA website is www.promode.org and the map pack is found here:
http://www.challenge-tv.com/index.php?mode=filedetail&file=51

CPM12 renders really nicely with next to nothing missing and the bsp is about 3.5MB. Some of the teleports were even drawn :)

I hope you can sort it out easily.

I also had a go a loading other Quake 3 engine maps with mixed results. I managed to load a Wolf:ET map in your viewer. I tried MOHAA without sucess (it crashed with random colour garbage) and I needed a bigger memory stick for Call of Duty and was unable to test it. That was all Q3 engine games I have installed atm.

Yeah, Thanks for the info. I replied to you on ********** about the issue. It is a case of the Z going in the wrong direction. I tested and fixed it this morning. I might try releasing a new build in the next day or two to fix this issue and a few more. (hopefuly mesh vert suport if I can figure out a way to do it on the psp, since I need to reference the polygons differently).

A big improvement is when I can get the BSP & VIS going because atm I am getting a solid 29-30fps on the psp yet when I try maps with small number of polygons I more get around 45-60fps. :)

I dont have any of the other games you listed to check into. :(

Anyways thanks again for your help. :)


simply amazing! this is looking very good... where on earth did you get the idea to do this?

I needed to learn 3D and I am in love with the PSP. :) Since I am not an artist and finding stuff to work with to learn 3d coding is a little hard. So I went with quake 2/3 data because it's easy to parse and start using quickly.

[PSmonkey]

Ok minor update & great news.

I fixed mesh verts. The issue was really stupid. I had to convert my list down to 2 bytes and not 4 bytes like quake uses & enable the length in the render flags.

So 100% next build suports Mesh Verts (Additional objects not apart of the enviroment surfaces). Now to look into bezier curves.

[MGFox]

I also had a go a loading other Quake 3 engine maps with mixed results. I managed to load a Wolf:ET map in your viewer. I tried MOHAA without sucess (it crashed with random colour garbage) and I needed a bigger memory stick for Call of Duty and was unable to test it. That was all Q3 engine games I have installed atm.

Carrying on from your tests, I have tried a few more games that use the Q3 Engine with the following results:-

pra1.bsp from Soldier of Fortune 2 = Crazy Mess!
mp_harbor.bsp from Call of Duty = "could not load BSP Map" message
hoth2.bsp from Jedi Academy = Crazy Mess!
yavin_swamp.bsp from Jedi Outcast = Crazy Mess!

here is an example of a "Crazy Mess!":-

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/buckie/bspmess.jpg

So I've had no luck here, I might try Call of Duty again, because that message makes me think I named it wrong...or maybe its format is changed beyond recognition...I dunno, if I try again and it works (i.e. displays something other than the message) I'll post an update!

Cheers,
Fox

[PSmonkey]

thanks for the continued test guys. :)

[PSmonkey]

Wow oh wow. The psp continues to amaze me. I just added in suport for bezier surfaces. It needs some fixing but on the whole. WOW.

Just a note. Still with no bsp parsing (in other words I am sending every surface to the gpu for rendering which is slow), I am getting 30fps still on dm01map for quake 3. :D :D

A small test map I have that has a low poly count gets 60. :)

Pictures to come later tonight.

[iball]

Let me get this straight: this allows one to just "fly" through the maps themselves?
If so.....damn good job!
I take it once the maps are properly rendered and displayed then work will begin on the gameplay side of the house? Or is this just for others to use?
Hmmm....I would imagine you teaming up with the guys porting Q2 would produce excellent results.

[PSmonkey]

Here new screens. Do enjoy!! :)

iball,
Much still to do but once I get it good, I will be working on the game side and making the engine easly modifyable. So others can also start using it on their own projects.

I personaly am thinking of remaking the first few levels of doom 1 using the engine. :D
I'm a huge fan of doom. :D

[iball]

Ah, that looks like the first map to me...damn, time to reinstall my Q3....again.
Hmmm....anyway to combine this code with an already-ported Doom engine?
Ack, forgot about the lack of jump and freelook...nevermind.

[Produkt]

I came here to comment on your fantastic work, our team hasent been able to afford the PSP dev kit just yet and this has helped tremndosly with our map tests, I cant wait for your mod release we will be the firsts to offer a mod :D and If need be I will donate some time to help you with your doom 1 port.

The Free Men Beta, comming soon

Which model format will you be using, MD3?

[Cap'n 1time]

I came here to comment on your fantastic work, our team hasent been able to afford the PSP dev kit just yet and this has helped tremndosly with our map tests, I cant wait for your mod release we will be the firsts to offer a mod :D and If need be I will donate some time to help you with your doom 1 port.

The Free Men Beta, comming soon

Which model format will you be using, MD3?

i think doom 1 was ported by lantus (who is emu scene legend). I think monkeyboy was just talking about making quake 3 maps similare to doom 1's.

[PSmonkey]

Ah, that looks like the first map to me...damn, time to reinstall my Q3....again.
Hmmm....anyway to combine this code with an already-ported Doom engine?
Ack, forgot about the lack of jump and freelook...nevermind.

Heh no no no. yo get the wrong idea. I wish to remake doom, not use this engine on a port of doom. :) Like someone will rebuild the texture work & level geometry for the quake 3 format and I will write game code to make something that trys to get as close as posible to playing like doom.

[PSmonkey]

I came here to comment on your fantastic work, our team hasent been able to afford the PSP dev kit just yet and this has helped tremndosly with our map tests, I cant wait for your mod release we will be the firsts to offer a mod :D and If need be I will donate some time to help you with your doom 1 port.

The Free Men Beta, comming soon

Which model format will you be using, MD3?

My target is MD3 as psp has excelent suport for bones to make things run more smoothly. On my pc builds so far I already suport MD2 so i might include that for anybody who wishes for a more simpler setup, plus vertex blending over bones might have some advantages for someone try to do some morphing and etc.

[Produkt]

i think doom 1 was ported by lantus (who is emu scene legend). I think monkeyboy was just talking about making quake 3 maps similare to doom 1's.


sorry i was refering to the port to his engine not to the psp

I am a mapper, texture and concept artist, with a slight knowlage of c/c++

[PSmonkey]

hey just a small notice. I am trying to implement the BSP Node/Leaf system to help reduce the amount of polygons sent for rendering. Hopefuly if all goes well sometime late this week I can release a new build with better framerate and all the recent things I've added in. :)

On another note. If you have not seen DoomDS, you should !!
http://dual-soft.com/doomds/

I want to do this (ie remake doom) on the psp. :P

[Cap'n 1time]

On another note. If you have not seen DoomDS, you should !!
http://dual-soft.com/doomds/

I want to do this (ie remake doom) on the psp. :P

wow, doomds looks stunning! I actually might be able to hook you up with some very experianced modelers. Old pals from the HaloUT and Project nexus groups (dont ask, UT2k4 stuff that died for me) might be interested in modeling and mapping. If your interested one person comes to mind, however I have heard rumors that he actually joined Epic, so no garuntees. let me know what you think. In the mean time, keep up the good work!

one more thing.
http://www.anim8or.com/main/
basically, this is the mspaint of 3d modelling. In other words, you can be a complete idiot (like myself) and actually make stuff with this. It has a collection of tutorials on its site to get you started, and actually their forums are full of people just looking for projects (and some of them are very talented too!) i suggest you take a peek.

hope some of these words help.. as much of a jerk I am, i love people that i know can get stuff done (unlike the damn ut2k4 project groups i worked with).

[PSmonkey]

i'll have to dl and try halout sometime soon (i have ut2k4 at work).

thanks for the offer

[Produkt]

I Would like to talk to you on some form of messenger, I have some free time to model some stuff for Doom aswell as map's and textures

[Produkt]

Well i decided to mess around, Being a texture artist and mapper I assumed that I was capable of making low poly models so here we go!

http://allstarr.net/uploaded/test.jpg

a fist model! due to me being in capable of turning the other hand the right direction and no smoothing knowlage! thats not fully how it will look in final. but any way 48 tris per hand unoptomized making the final roughly 70 for the final optomized model possibly much less if because i can take off the back sides of the models due to them not being seen!

any who so due to the anti aliasing that wont be there and the screen size I think that could be adiquet, and I know you may have optomization issued due to the unofficial SDK so more power to the frames!

textures will bring this sucker to life I promis you!

[PSmonkey]

kind of cool. Your best to probably look into making quake 3 maps first since that will be finished first before I get into things like models (true i can do md2 models but I wont start working on md3 or cleaning up md2 till after I get the bsp tree finished and fix bezier bugs).

I'll shoot you a pm on how to get ahold of me on msn.

[MGFox]

I got bored last night and started to map out E1M1, its only about 15mins work, it was mainly for me to get back into mapping as I haven't done it for a while :-

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/buckie/e1m1_1.jpg
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/buckie/e1m1_2.jpg

It's literaly just the first area, and I'm still not 100% sure about scale.

Cheers,
Fox

[PSmonkey]

I got bored last night and started to map out E1M1, its only about 15mins work, it was mainly for me to get back into mapping as I haven't done it for a while :-

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/buckie/e1m1_1.jpg
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/buckie/e1m1_2.jpg

It's literaly just the first area, and I'm still not 100% sure about scale.

Cheers,
Fox

*eyes popping out*
Please email me that map !!! :D :D
that or post it here if you dont mind. :)

[MGFox]

Please email me that map !!! :D :D
that or post it here if you dont mind. :)

Here it is...please note "EXTREME W.I.P.!!!", as in it's not even got all the rooms, I'm still not sure about the scale so feedback would be greatly appreciated...

e1m1.zip (82,928 bytes) (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/buckie/e1m1.zip)

You'll probably get a better understanding of the scale 'n' stuff by running it through QIII.

Cheers,
Fox

[PSmonkey]

Very nice man. Not sure on the scale yet but at the current time things look great.

[MGFox]

I've done some more to the level now I've finished work, I've done some touchups to ease the sense of scale in some areas, added some new areas and improved the existing ones.

I've just updated the existing file, so the link is the same :-

e1m1.zip (82,692 bytes) (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/buckie/e1m1.zip)

Cheers,
Fox

P.S. If I build the geometry, can anyone else do the texturing?...thats unfortunately my downfall! (thats assuming you are gonna be supporting textures, PSmonkey?)

[Cap'n 1time]

I've done some more to the level now I've finished work, I've done some touchups to ease the sense of scale in some areas, added some new areas and improved the existing ones.

I've just updated the existing file, so the link is the same :-

e1m1.zip (82,692 bytes) (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/buckie/e1m1.zip)

Cheers,
Fox

P.S. If I build the geometry, can anyone else do the texturing?...thats unfortunately my downfall! (thats assuming you are gonna be supporting textures, PSmonkey?)

yeek.. texturing is a bitch.. especially when your trying to remake somthing. perhapes if I had a sample of all the textures on the original map I could come up with somthing though.

[PSmonkey]

I've done some more to the level now I've finished work, I've done some touchups to ease the sense of scale in some areas, added some new areas and improved the existing ones.

I've just updated the existing file, so the link is the same :-

e1m1.zip (82,692 bytes) (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/buckie/e1m1.zip)

Cheers,
Fox

P.S. If I build the geometry, can anyone else do the texturing?...thats unfortunately my downfall! (thats assuming you are gonna be supporting textures, PSmonkey?)

Cool checking out the update now. :D

Yes textures are on the todo list.

[Produkt]

Wonderful work

Maby it's just me but I like the more story bound Doom 3 version.

I mean the + side to doing something along that side would mean we dont have to reread the book to remember what the heck is going on.

I have some Doom 3 low poly remakes I will pop into GTK soon

If you guys are going the D1 way I will hit up on the textures and concepts

maps can have the same layout but it needs updated designs and more polygons, we arent rendering in software mode any more :D

[MGFox]

Thanks for the feedback guys :)

As for the updated designs and increased poly comment...I'm a bit unsure how to approach this, do you have any suggestions on how to do this?

I'm an evolved Quake 1 mapper and can model in 3DS Max, my methods in the past usually comprised of fairly simple geometry with MD2/3 models, but this engine does not yet support models, and I feel that whacking in too many curved corners will destroy the feel of the original levels. Thinking about it, all the stuff like barrels and candle-sticks will probably be models...if that helps :p

To begin with I'll just get the basic geometry down (all the rooms and try to sort out the damn scale :mad: ), then I'll look at ways of evolving the level with detail.

Cheers,
Fox

P.S. And for the D3 low-poly re-makes, you can download a tool called DtoD3 (or something like that) which basically converts a Doom IWad into Doom3 levels, it'll extract the textures and everything! That'll be PSmonkeys decision to use it though...I guess it would be quicker to get the geometry, all you'd need to do is texture and light it! ( mmm...I guess that makes me extinct :( )

//////// EDIT \\\\\\\\\

Just as an example, here is E1M1 created with DtoD3, I've stripped out all textures, entities and lighting (they were all specific to D3). This took under five minutes to create:-

e1m1a.zip ( 236,493 bytes ) (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/buckie/e1m1a.zip)

As there are no lights in the map, it will not display properly in the PSP-BSPViewer, but you can run it in Q3 to get the jist!

Me sleepy, me go bed now!

[PSmonkey]

MGFox,

For legal reasons it would probably be nicer to remake the first map by allowing it to have more feel to it as well as take heavy use to the idea of a surface being Texture * Vertex Color (modulated) + Lightmap (additive blending). Many quake3 maps tend to ignore vertex coloring or use it as a lightmap replacement. I don't wish to do this. If you've ever had the chance to play Rainbow six 3 for pc, it is a great example of using the formula i mention above.

Also. I would like us to remake only the first map and not all of doom. I think it would be great if we get our own visual style and make new maps that give off that great feel of doom with out being a map we have played a million times over. :)

As for your map, On my pc Bsp Viewer (like my psp one but a bit better), The map looks fantastic yet in quake 3 the scale feels a little off (maybe a little small in the first room only on the x&z axis, ie floor, not height). I just think the scalling is only in need of minor tweaking (And nothing major you might have feared).

Oh the next version (actualy does it now in my current build) will suport mesh enviroment models. :)

Also low polly is somewhat good. I will need to render the surface twice to do lightmaps & textures together so it will be nice to add more polys but not to go overboard. :)

[Produkt]

I am using hl1 as my base for level poly count.

and transparencies are much apreciated if you can get that worked in :D

What i ment by doom 3 low poly was I took a good look at the doom 3 levels drew up a simple floor plan and re made it with a lower poly concept in mind.

I have started some work on 16 bit textures at 128^2 for the game, hopeing that it wont be tooo teribly much for the console. with the size of the screen it should pan out fine if its reduced to 64^2

[MGFox]

no major update today as work has been kinda hectic, a major project goes live for testing tomorrow and everyones rushing around to iron out all possible bugs...it's fun :rolleyes:

Produkt:

Sorry, I completely misunderstood what you meant about the Doom3 maps. That sounds like a cool idea, make Doom3 for PSP!!! :D

PSmonkey:

I'm gonna try and sort out the scale tonight, as I've just got to the "acid" room in E1M1 and I've built it using the first area as the scale (because the windows line-up) and it's all wrong...but as you say, I think its only the first area!

Cheers,
Fox

///// EDIT \\\\\

Well, that went quicker than I expected, here is a scale corrected map for your approval, I've called it "b" so I didn't overwrite the original with these extravagant changes. I'm a lot happier with it as I hope you will be:-

e1m1b.zip ( 147,876 bytes ) (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/buckie/e1m1b.zip)

I also had an idea last night about the "increased detail" discussion, the outside section could be done as uneven ground (Mars Surface) and the ground could dip down to create a puddle for the acid pool...just a thought :confused:

[Produkt]

Hey awsome, I really think some things need to be updated with doom

I mean with all of the hype doom has been getting recentl it was intended to be futureistic yet it seemd like a dungeon with stuff from the middle ages

I think some tweeks can be made to improve the look and feal.

Of cource I wish it could be D3 rather than D1 i have no problem with it. Perhaps Doom3 can be a side project OR there can be two final releases the doom 3 version and the doom 1 version.

[MGFox]

Sorry if anyone is expecting an update from this post, but I am still waiting for PSmonkeys approval of the scale changes before I proceed any further, and I'm sure PSmokeys a busy little beaver!

Now, the reason for the post, I am strongly considering upgrading to FW 2.00 for many reasons. I was just wondering if someone could confirm if the BSP Viewer works with the 2.00 EBoot Loader? and if not, will it be possible PSmonkey?

I will not be upgrading at all until I hear that this program can or will run on 2.00, as I have, sort of, committed to contributing!?!

Produkt: From PSmonkeys comments, I believe he would like to create a whole new Doom-Style game, the 'feel' of the original but with custom levels. E1M1 is just gonna be used as to test the engine and proove the concept.

Also, is there any possibility of a Texture Preview? :D

Cheers,
Fox

[nexis2600]

k, sorry guys been a little on the busy side due to work and something I can not make public regarding another company :P

... atleast yet.

Note, they loved the quake 3 bsp viewer demo.

Anyways, I'm still trying to fix the bsp view tree on the pc build. Also i am still trying to figure out why my bezeirs wont render properly. I broke up the list into 3x3 grids on the pc build and drawed the lines, everything visualy looks accurate in lines on the pc, yet I do this on the psp and nothing is correct. So i have to figure out whats wrong.

Fox, I'll try to test out the recent map posted by you later today. :)

Regarding texturing. Maybe I will try to do a quick texture demo for the next build but note all textures will need to be bitmaps or TGA files. Not sure which to suport yet. Also textures might have to be scaled down in size to work (need to build a texture cash system for vram) at decent speeds.

[MGFox]

Fox, I'll try to test out the recent map posted by you later today

No probs dude, theres no hurry, this is a labour of love, not a race! :D

In the mean time I've been messing about with creating a puddle in the landscape for the outside section...is your engine gonna support patch-meshes? 'cos thats what I use for creating uneven ground.


Regarding texturing. Maybe I will try to do a quick texture demo for the next build but note all textures will need to be bitmaps or TGA files. Not sure which to suport yet. Also textures might have to be scaled down in size to work (need to build a texture cash system for vram) at decent speeds.

My quote comment was actually aimed at Produkt, I really want to see the textures...they add so much extra quality to map!

But the news about getting texturing into the BSP Viewer is awesome! :D
(any comments on the FW 2.00 subject...does it, can it or will it work? :p )

Cheers,
Fox

[nexis2600]

patch-meshes = mesh verts (like candles and stuff on the wall?) or Bezeir surfaces (curved surfaces).

If its the first they are already suported. The second needs work as i am having problems getting it to render all the beziers (some show and others wont).

Regarding 2.0, Actualy it does work on the previous version (.6 or .7?) but not the latest version for some reason.

--edit--
I need to swap back to the proper nick. I forgot to change back (deleted the topic where i called someone a duchbag).

[MGFox]

Oooh, a quick patch-mesh description...

I don't think I falls under either of the two descriptions you have given, but I think it may use the same render method as curved surfaces.

Its under the "Curve" menu called "Simple Patch Mesh...". It creates a virtual sheet cut up into lots of little squares (a mesh of polygons) and you can manipulate vertices within the sheet. It does not use curves between the vertices but does move the surrounding vertices to create a curve effect...if that makes sense?!?

If this description doesn't make sense try it in Q3Radient. Draw a brush, convert to Patch-Mesh and press "V" to access the vertices.

Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Fox

[Produkt]

Ok well my textures are in TGA format due to the alpha channels.

Also, the textures i have made are based on 2 principles...

Function, and my detail to optimization ratio...

I will be releasing a simple starter texture pack for those who wanna help...

compiled of about 15 textures, (the one's I'm almost sure are good, but they can always change)


Ok.... yea things like grated floors are made into small tileable textures which work great :D I want TGA PLEASE!

[PSmonkey]

MGfox,

Yeah, thats a bezier surface. I'm having rendering issues with that atm. :(

produkt,

At the current time, i'm 100% going TGA suport only. So you should be happy. Try to keep the textures less then 64x64 for the time being. Eventualy i'll write a texture cash system to force all visable textures into vram which will allow it to keep a constant 30-60fps.

BTW, nice signature. :)

[Produkt]

Thats what I am trying to keep it at...

I have a 32x32 for a floor grate... easily tiled :D

I do have some 128x128's but they are intended for large 3d objects... (say world models)

Any way which way are you going for doom because I can get started on more of the world if you give the go ahead... infact a full design doc can be formed...

[PSmonkey]

hey guys, Great news. I got suport for uncompressed TGA images working. It looks great but there are some really bad issues.

1) All textures are in main ram at the moment
2) everything is way too bright.
3) the fps shot down to like 1-6fps depending how many surfaces are visable.

The reason the fps is so low is everything in main ram. if in edram/vram. I would get 30fps (much like i do with lightmaps now).

anyways i am going to try building a texture cash system soon and try getting this improved.

i'll post some pictures later today.

[PSmonkey]

Ok small update. I've been trying to improve things but having some issues with setting up a temporary vram allocation system. :(

Anyways I spent some time writing some image functions to handle converting a texture surface from one src to another (makes code cleaner). This also will help the framerate (5551 RGBA renders faster then 8888 RGBA).

Oh, screen shots will have to wait. i forgot the camera this morning. :(

[Produkt]

scetches of the first level are made and I will put them in my favorite cad maker and later get them textured and put in Q3BSP format...

[Produkt]

Here are some screens of the outside geometry of my version :D

The inside is on another map file, I will combine them soon.
This is a HL2 test (because hammer happens to be my favorite editor, Once I am content with the final geometry it will be put into .map format and everything elce will go from there.

I will hand out the test maps but for now they will all be in HL2 BSP format..

[Cap'n 1time]

looks great. nice work produkt

[PSmonkey]

Hey people. Here are some new pictures. Build is right around the corner (in other words, in the next few days).

Framerate is still a heavy issue but i dont think things will improve till I get the damn BSP implemented. :(

Few things to note, for debug reasons (and atleast because quake 2 maps have poor use of vertex colors). There is a debug key in the next build that lets you do things like turn textures off, change texture mode (modulate, additive, replace, blend).

Anyways do enjoy!!

[Cap'n 1time]

gasp.... TEXTURES!

OT: we really need to find you a way to take better pics :)

[MGFox]

PSmonkey and Produkt...Those shots look AWESOME!!! :eek:

PSmonkey,

Textures really bring more life into the maps, good work!
From your comment, does that mean Q2 maps will also work? (the first picture looks like a Q2 deathmatch level, am I right?)

Produkt,

Are you creating a whole new level then? if not, where would that go?
And how difficult is it to convert HL2 map file to QIII?
I've done it with HL1 many times, well, HL1 to D3, usually!

OT: I got it on release and I'm still having problems getting HL2 to run, my biggest waste of money yet :( ...I'm hopefully getting the XBox version at the weekend so I might actually be able to play it! :D

Cheers,
Fox

[PSmonkey]

fox,

Actualy, no. Thies are still quake 3 maps. The maps i am using are quake 2 maps that were converted to quake 3 using some tool. I just used them for an example since the textures were already TGA uncompressed. :)

[PSmonkey]

Oh quick thing. I am going to build a simple debug console durring lunch to give me some info on loading (ie if something loads, where it loads, status).

once i finish that I will package up and release a build.

[PSmonkey]

ok, new build up in an hour. just packaging it up.
check back for a news post. FYI, we can still keep our discussion going on in here (there will be a new topic but thats just because thats the only wayt to get it to show up on the main site).

[MGFox]

Oooh, this is gonna be like Christmas come early!!

Good work dude!

EDIT: Have you checked my level yet (posted a while ago) to see if the scale is more accurate? can I continue building it?

Cheers,
Fox

[Produkt]

>>> MG Fox:
I am making the files in hammer 4 because I like it's setup, I have another editor I like alot aswell but it requires some tedious setup...

I export my maps from hammer to .DXF then import them into max, Flip the faces, export to .map

This is part of the first level, I have the first bits of the inside almost done. once I finish the inside I will start porting it to .map and it will soon be visable on the psp (with textures!)

[PSmonkey]

MGFox,

Scale looks great !!

Keep up the good work.

[MGFox]

Just downloaded the latest version, will begin testing shortly!...and then I'll continue the Map :D

Produkt, just so I'm sure, are you redoing an entire E1M1 from scratch, or did you want to meld it with mine?

Cheers,
Fox

[Produkt]

I am actualty re designing the entire game going along side the story set by D3, although I wish i had the Doom book in which I could base it off of that.

::UPDATE::

Wile I have managed to make a good deal of the insideand all I have something rather important to announce for those of you watching the progress I have been making. Some of the content I create will be used for PSmonkeys version but the map and sounds I publish later follow the err the following...

my version will require a doom 3 dvd or cd, this is all due to legal aspects, wile there will be a demo (Similar to the doom 3 demo.) it will still be free though, but with requirements.

This is strictly of good coonchence for Id, The package will be distributed as an exe which will scan the DVD or cd (you indicate which) and it verifys files on the disk and if it clears it will then be installed on the psp.

If Id or activision was formaly contacted we would have a realy confusing situation. so the legal rights are set up first. my version WILL REQUIRE DOOM 3...

sorry for those of you who dont have it. (I may set up a check system for the xbox version)

[MGFox]

Hey, thats cool, I've got D3 on PC and Xbox (I'm a huge Id fan)!

Does this mean that your maps won't run on the PSP? Also I don't think you'll be able to do an Xbox check, because the Xbox uses a completely independant filesystem, not readable by Windows, Linux, Apple Mac, anything except for the Xbox itself.

I would also just like to say that I have now officially upgraded to JP 2.00 FW, and the latest BSPViewer runs fine with the Eboot Launcher 8.5! And I must say, Awesome Job PSmonkey!

I've not yet progressed with the map as I have been busy sorting out my Homebrew for the new firmware and well...Work!! I hope to get some more done tonight!...if I can stay away from GTA :D

Cheers,
Fox

[Produkt]

No they will run on the PSP but to avoid legal problems with Id it requires the DVD or CD to install to the psp

[Cap'n 1time]

No they will run on the PSP but to avoid legal problems with Id it requires the DVD or CD to install to the psp

interesting idea... have you emailed ID's content managers (whoever the hell they are) and asked for permission? you might just find that they'll let you anyways.

[RedKing14CA]

so you've completed it? doom 3 maps run perfect on psp? so then can you actually play quake 3 on the psp?

im lost.. :(

[MGFox]

im lost.. :(

Don't worry, I'll try and explain whats going on :)

PSmonkey is developing a Quake 3 BSP Viewer, which, once it is completed, he will modify so it will become an FPS engine.

In eager anticipation of this FPS engine, a couple of us have started building Maps to use on it.

Produkt is building the Doom 3 levels from scratch, with the intention of having a much lower Polygon Count, so they'll have less detail but run a lot smoother. Produkt is building the maps in Half-Life 2's Hammer Editor and will convert them once the geometry is complete.

I am building the original Doom level E1M1 "Hanger". To begin with I'm completely replicating the geometry, but once the layout is complete I'll add more detail as the PSP can easily handle more Polys than Doom can offer. I'm looking for someone to texture my map, 'cos it's something I hate doing!

So there you go, none of it is complete. All thats really done is the ability to view an incomplete version of my level in the BspViewer...which isn't really a game or fun, you're better off using other QIII maps for now, until mine or Produkts are more complete!

Cheers,
Fox

[Produkt]

>>> 1TimeUser:
There could be a problem with that, Them authorizing homebrew to use one of their stories with restraints kinda gives off a weird vibe to sony...

I'm going to keep general respects (sorta like the starcraft mod for Warcraft 3, they required the broodwar cd for people to be able to play it)

[Cap'n 1time]

>>> 1TimeUser:
There could be a problem with that, Them authorizing homebrew to use one of their stories with restraints kinda gives off a weird vibe to sony...

I'm going to keep general respects (sorta like the starcraft mod for Warcraft 3, they required the broodwar cd for people to be able to play it)

I see. Way to think ahead. :). This could violate IP (intellectual property), even with the CD requirement.

I suggest this because When I was working on the ill fated HaloUT mod with thoes SOBs I was actually ripping MODELS and TEXTURES from Halo 2 (1timeuser beats himself with the unethical stick). We were however ripping the textures so that a modeler could view them and create his own from scratch. I emailed Bungies content manager and former editor of xbox magazine Frank O'conner, and he said... well I forgot what he said. Anyways It might be wise to name it somthing other than Doom3 or even Doom for that matter... I also recommend you give it some noticible differants (which would actually be cooler anyways.)


While Unreal Engine is "moddable", It isnt open source and it wasnt being ported to a console, so that might have been the dumbest example in the universe. forgive me ;)

[PSmonkey]

Hey just a small update. Nothing major but today I've implemented a few things.

1) Surfaces tags (defined in the texture) with a no draw & sky are not rendered anymore
2) A skybox has been implemented but needs some work (it's my first skybox).

The skybox is defined by saving the texture index of the last texture with a sky surface tag. (hope thats not confusing).

Anyways works and looks nice but I need to add some subdivision ( it looks like a single texture extreamly streached over the screen).

--edit--
This weekend I am going to start heavly into the bsp tree code so I can improve framerate.

[PSmonkey]

Hey just a quick weekend update. I have started implementing the BSP tree. So far results are not very pretty but atleast the ground work is mostly done.

So far the bug right now is it's not really drawing only whats needed. it insted draws some stuff but others are missing.

[PSmonkey]

uggg, this bsp tree stuff is pissing me off to high hell. I still can't get it to give me exactly what i need and not a bunch of random surfaces. :(

This might take longer then I exspect to fix.

[PSmonkey]

Small update. No real changes since. I've been a bit busy due to work but now I got some more free time again. I'm going to screw the BSP tree till I can find out whats wrong (will have to code it on the pc to comapair what i did wrong & debug things).

I'm atm going to start looking into view frustrum clipping. This is the 2nd half that needs implementing but i've skipped since I was unsure how to implement it. I now think I found a way to retrieve the current view matrix from the psp.

I'll update here when I have more info.

Oh Fox & Produkt,
How are your guys maps comming alot? It's been relatively quiet recently from your relms.

[Produkt]

I'm currently working in the hardmodding scene, Building a brand new computer case for my upcomming amd athlon 64x2 4200+ system

Right now my time has been occupied building a lower end gamming computer for my younger brother, having to repaint the case because it was lannified by a good friend of mine who gave it to his wife, then took it back doodled on it for no obvious reason, and gave it to me with all of the parts, its a nice machine but I fried the processor trying out old power supplys...

Any way its getting a brand new custom paint job which wont be too special but atleast it will be unique!

[PSmonkey]

Yay, sceGumStoreMatrix is my hero. The only problem is if i'm in the model matrix mode. I only get whats in the model matrix mode and not the whole shabang. So just have to keep that in mind but it does give me the current matrix stored on the stack (if that makes sense to anybody).

So this week I will be able to add viewing frustrum clipping in and see how things go.

Produkt,

Cool. Just currious.

[MGFox]

I've completed all the inside geometry for the main rooms, all I need to do is the outside sections and the secret rooms...

On the work side of my life, things haven't so much gone bad...they've gone completely Bad Sh*t Loco!!! This means that not only is my free time sparse, but when it arrives I just wanna drink or sleep from (mental) exhaustion!

I do want to continue working on the Map, but my progress has become slow, to say the least, and I understand if you'd prefer someone with a more reliable schedule...so, it's up to you, I can either continue, albiet slowly, or I'll hand over the .map file and just help in small doses where I can!

Please be kind...my income has become unstable so I'm in quite a worried state!

Cheers,
Fox

[PSmonkey]

I've completed all the inside geometry for the main rooms, all I need to do is the outside sections and the secret rooms...

On the work side of my life, things haven't so much gone bad...they've gone completely Bad Sh*t Loco!!! This means that not only is my free time sparse, but when it arrives I just wanna drink or sleep from (mental) exhaustion!

I do want to continue working on the Map, but my progress has become slow, to say the least, and I understand if you'd prefer someone with a more reliable schedule...so, it's up to you, I can either continue, albiet slowly, or I'll hand over the .map file and just help in small doses where I can!

Please be kind...my income has become unstable so I'm in quite a worried state!

Cheers,
Fox

Fox,
Personal life > This project.
I was just currious since you've guys been a bit quiet recently. Work on it when ever you feel like it and have time.

This is just a hobbyist project, not the main focus of our life. :)

I hope things vastly improve for you asap.

[Produkt]

I think we should set Fox's office on fire, so he doesnt have to work for a wile and gets paid to do nothing for it

[PSmonkey]

heh, interesting idea produkt.


Anyway small project update.
I've yet to test my code out on the psp (currently wrote it for my pc build but wrote it all in C so I can instantly plug it into my psp stuff (which sadly is still in c atm and not cpp like it should)) but i've writen a small map info parser that can parse the info block of map files. Currently I plan to only use it to pull out a map name & a starting position but i writen it to fully work for anything. So pretty much I could use it right now to parse out all the object locations but really the engine is not to that point yet.

Anyways in future builds. you'll see less spawning at 0,0,0 and more spawning in apropret places.

:)

[PSmonkey]

*Screams from the moutain tops*

!!F---!!

I found my bug. My BSP tree code was good BUT, I forgot that on pc I was inverting my camera cords before translation but was not doing the same on psp. That explains why in early builds it felt like it worked but was freaking rendering everything on the otherside of the map.

I am ungodly happy it's now working because now with texturing i'm getting maps to run at 60fps. :D :D I still have a vew frustrum clipping to implement (further optimisation).

Anyway with the sucess of this & map info parsing I am finaly starting to see some new progress.

So I am going to take a few days to plan out in advance what order I want to take care of things. I have a huge list in my head what should be done first but I am not sure whats the best moves yet.

Here are a few things I feel must be sorted out asap.
1. View Frustrum
2. 8bit texture suport & converter (in 8bit, i can fit much more in vram) *see example calc*
3. Colission detection. Why? Because when the camera clips a wall the fps drops heavly.
4. Figure out how to stop the psp from clipping polygons around the edge of the screen.

Anyways simple example calc for number 2 (using lightmaps)
32bit - 128*128*4 = 65536
16bit - 128*128*2 = 32768
8bit (32b pal) - 256*4 + 128*128 = 17408
8bit (16b pal) - 256*2 + 128*128 = 16896

When a given map has say 24 lightmaps,
32bit = 1,572,864 (all of vram, rest of vram is framebuffers)
vs
8bit (32b pal) = 417,792 ( 1/3 of vram )

[Cap'n 1time]

*Screams from the moutain tops*

!!F---!!

I found my bug. My BSP tree code was good BUT, I forgot that on pc I was inverting my camera cords before translation but was not doing the same on psp. That explains why in early builds it felt like it worked but was freaking rendering everything on the otherside of the map.

I am ungodly happy it's now working because now with texturing i'm getting maps to run at 60fps. :D :D I still have a vew frustrum clipping to implement (further optimisation).

Anyway with the sucess of this & map info parsing I am finaly starting to see some new progress.

So I am going to take a few days to plan out in advance what order I want to take care of things. I have a huge list in my head what should be done first but I am not sure whats the best moves yet.

Here are a few things I feel must be sorted out asap.
1. View Frustrum
2. 8bit texture suport & converter (in 8bit, i can fit much more in vram) *see example calc*
3. Colission detection. Why? Because when the camera clips a wall the fps drops heavly.
4. Figure out how to stop the psp from clipping polygons around the edge of the screen.

Anyways simple example calc for number 2 (using lightmaps)
32bit - 128*128*4 = 65536
16bit - 128*128*2 = 32768
8bit (32b pal) - 256*4 + 128*128 = 17408
8bit (16b pal) - 256*2 + 128*128 = 16896

When a given map has say 24 lightmaps,
32bit = 1,572,864 (all of vram, rest of vram is framebuffers)
vs
8bit (32b pal) = 417,792 ( 1/3 of vram )

this is great news! I dont know what the hell half of it means! but its great! i got somthing about it running at 60fps, so i think its a good thing!

[PSmonkey]

Small Update. I threw in a cheap 8bit palette converter. So if the image uses less then 256 colors it works quite well. It will use up a smaller fraction of vram & looks better then it currently does (specialy when blended with vertex colors).

Oh also when i mean cheap I mean cheap. I just fill up a 256 color buffer with the first 256 uniq colors (i don't try doing any color reduction). So if the image has more colors, it drops them. It's cheap but it works for now (and the q2 maps i test with only have 20-64 colors per texture).

I also threw in my map info parser to the psp build and it works great except 1 map crashes so far (of my normal 10 test maps).

[PSmonkey]

!! Hey guys. HUGE UPDATE !!

Today I got lightmaps working with blending (sure not that hard). So now the game has Vertext color * Texture Color + Lightmap Color. The result is a little dark but freaking fantastic. I'll post some screenshots later tonight.

There is a few things I must do before next release
1) Test things with official quake 3 maps (still going off q2 maps).
2) I need to write an exporter that rips quake 3 lightmaps into image files. So you can convert them to less then 256 colors (if not the internal system is ass) then let you load thoes insted of the imbeded lightmaps.
3) Add view frustrum clipping

Once all 3 are done I will release a new build that will be a major step up from when I started & put many comercial PSP games to shame.

- PSmonkey

[PSmonkey]

Sorry it's a little dark. I should make the lightmaps a bit brighter on the blending (looks great on the psp with full brightness).

Anyways do enjoy (wrote a quick vram->bmp saver to snag this)

[Produkt]

Pimpin work... Maby I will finish up some texture work and release some of my basic map work with your next release...

FYI The dutch spoof of the barbie song is hilarious...

[Cap'n 1time]

is that 30fps just due to the fact that you were taking a screen shot?

[PSmonkey]

is that 30fps just due to the fact that you were taking a screen shot?
No, at the current time it runs around 30fps on this map. The reason for the slow down is all viewable geometry is rendered twice for the lightmap. Plus the lightmap is using hw blending (which takes even more time to draw).

I still have to implement view frustrum clipping and that should give some more fps (also note the psp is running at 222).

[PSmonkey]

Small update. View Frustum Clipping is now implemented but I am not yet happy with the results. It does work but I still see polys I think should have been clipped. So I am going to look into clipping at face level vs the cluster level. Might be worth it.

More or less tho. the test map I commonly used (featured in the pictures above) is now back up to around 60fps. Hopfuly with more optimisation I can get the entire map to run at 60 with no hickups.