DSI - Good or Bad for DS Homebrew ?

[wraggster]

Im sure by now you have heard of the new DS Console coming this year to Japan, but the loss of GBA Hardware inside and no GBA Port means a loss of all GBA Hombrew but the SD Slot possibly opens up the DS to Homebrew without the need for a flash cart.

So DSI is it good or bad for homebrew on the DS ?

[juiceface]

I'm guessing nintendo has gone through considerable effort to lock down this new version of the DS from flash cards that enable homebrew (similarly to what sony is doing with the new version of the psp). With that being said, in the short term there will be no homebrew capabilities for the new DS. I doubt it will hurt the homebrew scene for the DS as a whole though because the scene has existed for quite sometime now. It will only lock out new users from homebrew, and with 75 million nintendo DS's being sold you are not locking out to many people from homebrew at this point. In the long term it could be a blessing if someone figures out how to pass the new nintendo DS protections on unsigned code being ran (being that there is now SD memory support).

[iofthestorm]

I agree with juiceface, at first it will be hard to get homebrew and I think most people agree that Nintendo will try to lock out existing homebrew carts, but someone will find a crack eventually and it will be as easy to hack as a Wii eventually. And in the meantime the DS scene will continue as usual. Maybe this will be enough motivation for Dragonminded/Shaun Taylor to work on a new version of DSOrganize, since it seems like Wii homebrew motivated him to make a new media player app. I think overall this new DS will make homebrew better.

[magickosta]

i think that they will find a way through the sd card slot. :thumbup:

What stinks is that i use a m3 cf for homebrew. :mad:
The reason is that i bought a 16 gig cf :mad:

well the cf card and the new m3 because my old one broke just went down the drain. :mad: :mad:

One good thing not relating to homebrew is that my friends think its cool. Most of them make fun of me for having a ds.......

[jaybud4]

I don't see how Nintendo could prevent us from running a slot-one flashcard. Sure, there wouldn't be RAM pak support, but they'd be committing suicide if they DIDN'T include internal (which would be so much faster then the paks anyway) RAM with that browser it's said to have.
And the slot-one flashcards duplicate the Nintendo header to the point that (obviously) they can be used in the regular DS without any hackery. With that said, they'll be enforcing the rules harder, no doubt, but any of the truly worthwhile slot one cards should still be able to work.

Take whatever's said about this DSi with a grain of salt, as until this thing is released, we can't say anything about homebrew for sure.

[Grey Acumen]

There's no way the homebrew scene can be harmed by the DSi. As has already been stated, the current crop of homebrew can run without needing any hacks at all, thus the DSi should be able to run existing homebrew just as easily as it can run official DS games.

now, it may take a while for the SD card to get hacked, but if you can run homebrew from a DS homebrew card, you should be able to send it something that opens up the SD card slot to run homebrew from.

the only real blow to homebrew here is dependent on if the DSi is capable of emulating GBA using just software. If it could manage that, it would actually be a huge boost, since you would be able to add savestates and maybe even zoom and speed functions to GBA games.

[Harshboy]

If they build it, we can crack it. That saying goes for any electronic device, including the DSi.

Someone will hack the SD Slot and there wont ever be a need for flashcards again.

[Jeric]

I view the initial stages of homebrew for the DSI as extending existing 'ware capability to take advantage of newer features/added ram, then after the sd slot is cracked so we can run code via there, or at least use it as a storage device, whole new worlds of possibility open up. All it takes is time, and those willing to put the hours in.

oh and harsh, could you please do something about your signature? It gives me headaches.

[iofthestorm]

I don't see how Nintendo could prevent us from running a slot-one flashcard. Sure, there wouldn't be RAM pak support, but they'd be committing suicide if they DIDN'T include internal (which would be so much faster then the paks anyway) RAM with that browser it's said to have.
And the slot-one flashcards duplicate the Nintendo header to the point that (obviously) they can be used in the regular DS without any hackery. With that said, they'll be enforcing the rules harder, no doubt, but any of the truly worthwhile slot one cards should still be able to work.

Take whatever's said about this DSi with a grain of salt, as until this thing is released, we can't say anything about homebrew for sure.
If you've browsed gbadev.org forums, you would have seen a post by tepples that laid out exactly how Nintendo could block existing carts. Basically they put a whitelist of all the old games' SHA-1 hashes on the firmware, and have all new games RSA signed, and require carts to pass that check to run. Homebrew carts wouldn't pass the test so they would be locked out. I still think someone will hack the system eventually, but I'm pretty sure one of the reasons for this DSi is to lock out homebrew/piracy, at least temporarily.

[jaybud4]

If you've browsed gbadev.org forums, you would have seen a post by tepples that laid out exactly how Nintendo could block existing carts. Basically they put a whitelist of all the old games' SHA-1 hashes on the firmware, and have all new games RSA signed, and require carts to pass that check to run. Homebrew carts wouldn't pass the test so they would be locked out. I still think someone will hack the system eventually, but I'm pretty sure one of the reasons for this DSi is to lock out homebrew/piracy, at least temporarily.
Key word there is "could".
That seems HIGHLY unlikely.

[TeenDev]

say good bye to R4 clones. This is a f**king miracle. No more updating of FAT drivers and all that. JUst one driver.... ahh the live. It'll be just like the PSP.

[Lastron]

Hello,are you all mad? most outstanding homebrew NEED added ram. From what ive heard there has been no new ram progression so we will bw cutting off a 3rd of good homebrew.

Any homebrew game that requires added fat has had lots of work involved. Quake 2 is gone as well as many others like tthe mac emulator, etc, etc. Also they have probably made a less bipassable firmware.

homebrew is on a turn for the worst.

Im avoiding this dsi like the plague.

[davidcrew]

it says it had integrated memory tho...

[that1guywiththeface]

I think the removal of the gba slot is an attempt to block homebrew based off of the old flash carts, similar to what Sony used to try to do with firmware updates. The problem is, you cannot play guitar hero: on tour on the dsi without the guitar grip. All this being said, I'll still buy one because I'm tired of having to share a DS.

[Illegal Machine]

Naah... they removed the GBA sot because it's an outdated system, they probably realize that if you own a DS then you most likely don't play GBA games on it.. I mean only gba games worked.. not Game Boy or Game Boy color, and that was an issue with the plastic molding the cartridge is made from... the GBA games fit, the GB didn't.. so this is just that again..


As far as homebrew goes, yes.. they're collectively trying to shut down our endeavors.


I think what these companies fail to realize is that their so-called loss of sales is total bull because there's no way anyone would buy as many games as they pirate. so the sales only disappear when it comes to the stuff the pirates would have bought in some alternate reality where things were secure.

but then we'd hate HALF the games we bought because no one is allowed to preview or return anything ever anywhere.


if they think that this will boost software sales they're crazy, stupid, or both... Mainly because we still have our hacked consoles, we can still pirate, and most people who buy these will have the same habits as before. the only difference will be that some of us will buy the new units... WILL STILL pirate the games, and then wait till the new units get hacked then upgrade... WOW big strategy

[Aryn]

Will the DSi be good or bad for homebrew?
That all depends on how quickly the system can be hacked. 'nuff said.

[Lastron]

Will the DSi be good or bad for homebrew?
That all depends on how quickly the system can be hacked. 'nuff said.

Although we wont have enough ram, to make anything thats particularily powerfull...

[LemonMan99]

I bet R4s will still work and you might even be able to run DSi roms off of them, so I'm going out on a limb here and saying "GOOD". Plus now we'll be able to get GBA games on our DSi's
because of the DSi Shop.

[iofthestorm]

Although we wont have enough ram, to make anything thats particularily powerfull...

That might not be true, the original Opera required the GBA slot for a RAM expansion so they might have beefed up the built in RAM for the new browser. Of course, they could also be using the NVRAM as cache but I don't think that's all that likely, since someone said the new browser would be faster and I don't see how they could make it faster if it was still limited to 4MB RAM.

And for anyone that thinks Nintendo won't try to block existing slot-1 carts, you're naive as hell. Given Nintendo's recent antagonism towards the R4 and their half-assed attempt at blocking the Twilight Hack, they aren't just looking the other way when it comes to piracy, and unfortunately they don't make a distinction between piracy and homebrew.

[db73]

I think what these companies fail to realize is that their so-called loss of sales is total bull because there's no way anyone would buy as many games as they pirate.

Precisely. I think game fans will always buy games the same as music fans will always buy music, movie fans DVD's etc. I think you appreciate something much more when you buy it.

I reckon that most people probably buy one or maybe two titles at a time (Would that be fair to say?). This means you spend more time playing one game & therefore you get a lot more out of it. When your finished with it you go out & buy something else. On the other hand you could download pirated copies of half the DS software catalogue in about the time it takes to order & take delivery of a pizza! But what would be the point?! how many games can you play at once? You could have a go on all of them in not much time. But your not going to get anything out of that at all.

I have a friend who downloads every PC game going (often before the game has even been released!). Everytime you ask him about a game he says the same thing - "It's crap". He's probably spent about 5 or 10 minutes playing before reaching this conclusion, anxious to move on to the next pilaged game. He has become very jaded towards gaming in general I guess because his HD is saturated with software he's barely given the time of day to ......... there wouldn't be enough hours in the day. And if there was I wouldn't want to spend all of them playing games.

My point is that pirating games is a double edged sword. You think your getting something for nothing but all your really doing is ripping yourself off as well as the owner of the game. This is because when you pirate something you automatically de-value it in your head. It becomes worthless & disposable even if it might be something that is actually very good.


Erm ......... I'll get off my soap box now. Sorry about that :o

[dark.nowhere]

Although we wont have enough ram, to make anything thats particularily powerfull...

Nonsense. Very few homebrew games/apps actually use RAM expansions, and even less require them. It's generally a Bad Idea to depend on additional RAM because access times for it are far too long.

Besides, if they're replacing the browser without an expansion, that suggests there will be additional RAM in the unit, and if it's main RAM I'd take as little as 2 megs of it over any amount of the slower expansion stuff we've been putting up with--which I won't use because it's so slow. I want my stuff to run on time.