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wraggster
May 13th, 2006, 11:40
What a bloody busy week of newsposting, what with E3 etc but anyway heres a question that will surely get some response.

Does Piracy Hinder Consoles ?

Apart from the Dreamcast which piracy really did a number on that console, does piracy destroy a console or help it.

If you look at the big consoles of the last 10 years or so, im talking GBA, Xbox, PSone and PS2 all of them had modchips and flash carts etc and they dominated over the consoles that didnt at that time.

Yes piracy kills software sales and we do not condone it in anyway at all but for hardware sales does it actually help sales.

Thoughts on this? - (No Flaming just good discussion wanted)

shadowprophet
May 13th, 2006, 11:51
There are many reasons piracy hinders consoles,
But the main gripe I have about piracy.
Is ultimately it causes the price of comercial games to rise :(

kcc86
May 13th, 2006, 12:07
If you look at the big consoles of the last 10 years or so, im talking GBA, Xbox, PSone and PS2 all of them had modchips and flash carts etc and they dominated over the consoles that didnt at that time.

Yes piracy kills software sales and we do not condone it in anyway at all but for hardware sales does it actually help sales.

agreed...

Software companies take the big hit when consoles are easily exploited. Piracy helps console sales; doesn't the thought of buying a console with "free games," sound tempting?

samidgley
May 13th, 2006, 12:12
Piracy seems to help the actual console though... I rember when the Playstation first came out everyone bought them because you could get them chipped

shadowprophet
May 13th, 2006, 12:20
Piracy seems to help the actual console though... I rember when the Playstation first came out everyone bought them because you could get them chipped

And im not going to argue that point lol

However there where a few people,
Me included that viewed the orig psx as a flop untill final fantasy seven turned things around,
I credit a lot of the psones success to that turning point release :p

mog
May 13th, 2006, 14:39
Yeah, if nintendo had used cd instead of cartridge on their n64, how different the console world would be today...
Squaresoft would have stuck with nintendo, Final Fantasy 7 would have been released on n64, and playstation would have died long ago! :p

Software piracy can hurt console sales, with software companies abandoning a console because it does not have enough security. This results in a lack of games and high game prices, causing people to choose a different console.
But piracy definitely helps console hardware sales, because there are too many pirates that buy the consoles, knowing games can be acquired freely by illegeal means.
So it helps and hurts console sales, but it ultimately depends on which outweighs the other...

gotmilk0112
May 13th, 2006, 14:46
whichever, piracy sux. and as IndianCheese's sig says:

"Illegaly downoading iso's is just as bad as shoplifting the game from a store"

^so true^

but i think dreamcast died because of lack of good games. the only good games i had for it were SA 1 & 2 and some bass fishing game that was really fun. and atari anniversary edition for dreacast was super game.

muffinman
May 13th, 2006, 14:56
i dont know tbh piracy does make more people buy a console but it does reduce software sales :s
i think figures show that console with piracy have done better though

GinaWrite
May 13th, 2006, 15:06
(snip)

Apart from the Dreamcast which piracy really did a number on that console, does piracy destroy a console or help it.

(snip)



IMHO, the 32X and the Saturn killed the Dreamcast as many people didn't want to get burned a third time.

Gina

crazyjohn
May 13th, 2006, 15:29
Part of the issue is that whilst the ability to pirate games for a system may increase the consoles sales, in many cases it cost more than (or at least equel to) the RRP to produce the system. The profit is earned through software licences. I dont believe that this is the case for the PSP (As sony takes into account that not everyone will use it for games) but it has been true for others.

------------------
"Illegaly downoading iso's is just as bad as shoplifting the game from a store"

^so true^
------------------

Well, not quite... if you shoplift from a store you have quite a big impact on that stores profit margins. Not that I'm in any way encouraging it but if you download an iso you are stealing from Sony... and I dont think they're doing to bad for themselves, eh? Whatsmore if you had no intention of buying that game in the first place you are not effecting them. Once again not saying that I agree with it but I dont think you can directly compare the two.

Larry
May 13th, 2006, 16:51
true crazyjohn, about the "if you had no intention" part.
Piracy is a touchy subject.
If you had no intention of ever buying the game, and playing it is just something to pass the time till a fantastic game comes out. then so be it.

But i wont lie, i've downloaded my unfair share of games, but half of the ones i did like, i went out and bought.
the other half had no replay value, and the ones i didnt like.. it was just an extended demo.
makers of mad games have no right to take my money, they should give the game out for free anyways just to get the name out.

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7417/piracy5ci9yz.gif

This picture will set some minds in motion.

Edit: didnt mean to stray semi-off topic.
But the balance between piracy hurting and helping console sales is also touchy. There will always be piracy.

Any company that fully stops piracy will actually hurt themselves. Only people who bought it will play, this is true, but sometimes its more important to have more people playing the game, than more people buying the game. You can make the best game in the world. and give it the most powerful piracy protection.
But if no one can afford it. you cant even say it was truely a good game if no ones played it (or at least not many people)

But if you want my honest ideas. Make a came, Make it easy to pirate and give it a single use serial key.

Then offer downloadable content that makes the game worth buying.

If people like the game enough, they'll want the extra content thats only allowed to people whom purchased the game and are using legit cd-keys.

This game sales will creep up.

PS consoles dont make companies money. games do. some companies even lose money on console sales, but make it back 2x fold in game sales.

jwilds73
May 13th, 2006, 16:52
Sucky games hinder consoles also. There is nothing out on the PSP that I really want or must own at this time. the Moto GP title looks fun as I am a big motorcycle person (own 4 myself). Really Sony's preventing us from running homebrew (which also prevents running of privated games) has prevented me from buying any new titles for the PSP. I simply wont sacrifice homebrew to play commercial releases. Nothing Sony has offered with their new firmwares and titles compells me to sacrifice homebrew.

nyrtrublue
May 13th, 2006, 16:56
I think it helps sony in this case because since all of its games sucked balls in the begining they were able to keep customers around because of homebrew. But as for downloading isos it probably hurts the company alot. So it balances out depending on what is being used.

memyselfandi
May 13th, 2006, 17:11
what??? it doesn't matter if you were going to buy it or not!you are still playing the game that the company made without paying for it.

leigh
May 13th, 2006, 17:15
most company's make heavy financial losses on hardware sale's and therefore rely on software sale's to actually make it profitable. piracy can never be a good thing !

gotmilk0112
May 13th, 2006, 17:52
yes if noone buys any games $ony would be crippled. and thier name wouldnt be $ony it would be sony because they wouldnt have a bajillion of dollars anymore

psiko_scweek
May 13th, 2006, 17:53
ok, does piracy hurt a console? In a way it does, and in a way it doesnt. Console manufacturers dont make money on console sales at all. In fact as of late, they have been losing alot of money for each console sold.

BUT, look at the XBOX, a lot more xboxes were sold during its life time due to people either messing up modding their xbox or whatnot. A majority of the time when a person has a console they usually will purchase a game or two.

Now do I believe that pirating games is wrong? in a way. I know a majority of people here have MP3s they downloaded on their computers, or have ROMS of older games on their computers as well. Here is my philosophy -- you can download a ISO, download an MP3, download a ROM all you like BUT if you like it....buy it. This avoids buying games that suck, buying a movie that you dont like, or buying a CD that you will never listen to.

Also dealing with the PSP. Having ISOs on the PSP could have legit reasons. With all the FW updates blocking HB. Untill there comes a RunUMD that can play all the newer games I believe as long as you purchase the UMD you should be allowed to have the ISO. Now this does not mean your allowed to download an ISO and say your going to get the UMD "eventually"

ok - im done.

gotmilk0112
May 13th, 2006, 17:59
and if sony does some stupid crap like including the iso with the game people will just give it to all thier friends UNLESS, they somehow make it so u cant cut \ copy it and u cant paste it or move it or do anything to it. xD

Kaiser
May 13th, 2006, 18:02
It hurts the console far more then it helps in any case. End of story. If Sony sells more consoles because of piracy, it doesn't help them in the slightest because Sony usually sells their hardware at a loss. Even Nintendo would lose ultimately since most of their money is made from their first-party games.

All and all, piracy is bad no matter how you try to justify it.

rock_light
May 13th, 2006, 18:12
you guys are silly.

Microsoft ruined Sega and the DC. (conspiricy!! it was all for M$-Box) Oh and the fact that it had NO DVD PLAYER and came out years after PSX n 64. Oh and as far as profit goes you really should do some more research on sega's dev teams. They actually had 2 companies doing design and production and a bunch of bad management led to the loss of 1,000,000s of dollars!

Okay, piracy was just a tiny influence their. (Okay okay MAYBE it did finish off a dying console but too bad it was already dying in the 1st place. DC did not get canceled cuz of piracy it was because it was OUTDATED AND OBSOLETE. (although still better than PS2 in some ways look how far a DVD will push in sales. Ps3 may break 360 the same way too.
But MS will upgrade.

The only reason you should feel bad about piracy is the following reasons.

- You cracked an online game and are using the servers to play online.

- You are selling a game for more than YOUR production costs. (Ie: Sell a ps2 game for more than $5-10)

- You are copying the covers and books and selling those too increasing the value

- You are hosting countless new gen games online for everyone to download. (ie: games released very recently and are still being produced to sell)

- You did not support your fav game franchise and pirated a good series. (unless its an old game out of production)

HOW CAN YOU LOOSE MONEY ON A GAME YOUR NOT SELLING - SOME PPL MAKE NO SENSE

Think that's it. Just dont go download the latest games pirated and we shall all be fine. Dont let idiots fool you.

You can't STEAL something non physical. (This doesn't even morally apply to song theft unless you removed the end credits put your name in and tried to produce it FOR SALE pupose.

SO what did we learn from Rock?

Pirate Retro-Style, stay off those fresh ISO sites
and dont sell pirated games for profit.

Jsr_101918
May 13th, 2006, 18:21
If the company couldn't put enough security in the consol, it's their bad.

DimensionT
May 13th, 2006, 18:22
Hey, look at the Sega CD. It had no copy protection, and it still bombed, lol.

MaxSMoke
May 13th, 2006, 18:42
I'm sure somebody's mentioned in this thread, but I'm going to mention it again any ways;

THE DREAMCAST WAS NOT KILLED BY PIRACY!!!!!

The Dreamcast died because of ALOT of factors, like poor 3rd party support, a limited game library, nonexistent online play, high cost, and a general "We Hate Sega" attitude from gamers. I owned the Dreamcast, I bought hordes of software for it. I thought it was great, but then again I've owned almost every lemon Sega turned out before they threw in the towel and gave up on hardware sales.

On the other hand, from what I've heard from others, the original Playstation had *ALOT* of piracy. Something about the disks being easy to copy or something. And the Playstation sold like GANGBUSTERS! It had awesome 3rd party support, mostly because it was easy to develop software for and and limited production costs because of the standard CD format. The Dreamcast used a special "CD-G" disks which only Sega could make. Of course the console didn't need them, but Sega required them for "legitimate" software releases, which drove up costs.

Overall, considering *ALL* of the hurdles, I don't think the Dreamcast did that badly in the market. But Piracy was not one of those hurdles. Well a small handful of computer savvy people made have bootlegged every DC game ever made, this piracy never reached the main stream. Heck, I never even heard of it's existence until nearly a year after I moved on to a PS2.

The software "Piracy", as the software companies like to call it, it's nothing more then a white tiger dreamed up to justify the terrible treatment of customers. It has, and most likely will always remain, the domain of a few technologically savvy people out there clever enough to figure out how to do it. And well these people might stock pile huge collections, these collections cost the software companies *NOTHING*. There's no loss in a copy. Get a CLUE!

In fact, someday these collections might actually help to save certain software from oblivion. Nobody's archiving old, unpopular games. The ROM carts and CD disks decay after time. Someday, old "pirate" collections might be the only preserved copies of some of these games.

And if you think that sucking up to Sony like this is going to legitimize Homebrew, you're dreaming.

XDelusion
May 13th, 2006, 18:47
According to Sega, Piracy is not a threat.

Me? I don't really care, we live in a world of controlled famine and starvation, a world were 15% hold the wealth and power, and the rest of us mindless argue over how best to suck up to our corporate masters who keep us down.
So as far as I see it, make sure mouths are fed before worrying about this kind of stuff.

Just a thought.

jassin000
May 13th, 2006, 19:34
Piracy didn't kill Dreamcast! The size of DC ISO's alone (1GB or greater in a time when dialup modems were common) kept them out of the hands of many would be pirates. If anything, rental services like Blockbuster should fear piracy most. I wouldn't buy a lackluster game title, but I would rent it. In the eyes of a video game company, how is renting a game, returning it, and never buying it any different then downloading it?

Emeriastone
May 13th, 2006, 20:10
Yes. Piracy hinders consoles.

jojotjuh
May 13th, 2006, 20:35
Yes piracy kills software sales and we do not condone it in anyway at all but for hardware sales does it actually help sales.

nintendo should release their own flashcarts...

this way, they still will get paid for atleast hardware.
then also, release a romserver for a little money for subscription.

because others have already available burnable cd it would be outta the question, thats why i only name nintendo.

nonarKitten
May 13th, 2006, 20:40
Piracy seems to exist at a certain level no matter what - there will always be a certain percentage of people who think piracy is valid due to extortionistic practicies of some software publishers (e.g., Microsoft). I believe that piracy can be accurately measured to be proportional to the popularity of either the software and/or hardware, the ease-of-piracy (e.g., Windows 2000 vs XP/SP2), and the cost-of-goods.

Now, what killed the Dreamcast wasn't piracy, though Sega would probably use that as a scapegoat. What did kill Sega was the Saturn fiasco and other issues around the time the Saturn was release. After the MegaCD, and 32X being huge bombs, people were skeptical of the Saturn. Plus, the biggest sports company, EA, had abandonded Sega a while ago, so they were sorely lacking in big titles. Sega lost a lot of 'face' durring this period. The Saturn was so hard to develop for, only AM2 could afford to put enough effot into making games as good as VF2 - everyone else gave up and jumped ship to the easier to program PSX (not to mention all the Sony incentives at the time).

So, in a nut shell, what killed Sega was some very bad market moves (32x and MegaCD, along with the Nomad and GameGear I suppose), loosing developers as fast as they could (due in large to rather draconian royalty schemes, and the absurd difficulties in making the Saturn perform like it should), and then, releasing ahead of the PS2. Not piracy - that was just an effect of what I said above.

In someways, I think piracy can help software companies (under certain circumstances). It can increase market and mind share substantially (which is why most software companies push demo's out, or offer one-month-free to get you hooked). Microsoft is probably the most heavily pirated company in existence (Adobe might be up there too), and I can't se that it hurt them one bit.

Let's take another big example, probably well before anyone here remembers - the Amiga. It was, percentage-wise, probably more heavily pirated than either the Dreamcast or Windows combined. I worked in an Amiga store, and boxed games would collect dust for months - but I saw everyone I knew playing games like Lemmings... there were often cracks to get games of disc before games were even on market.

Did it kill the Amiga? Hell no - The corrupt owners killed Amiga. Commodore (like Sega) was having financial problems long before it's final demise - and developers were jumping ship to the more flexible IBM platforms for games, and to the Mac for professional DTP stuff (though they eventually switched to the IBM world too). In 1990 Amiga pwnd the multimedia world - by 1995 you'd be laughed at if you even mentioned them.

In fact, I would say that piracy DOES kill companies, if-and-only-if they invest huge amounts of resources attempting to combat it - energy that's always and inevitably wasted. If you successfully stop piracy completely (i.e., Xbox360 might have), you will loose that percentage of people who would never buy it knowing they couldn't (e.g., half of China). And if you don't succeed, well then, you've just wasted an incredible amount of resources for nothing, haven't you.

What they need to learn is that they only need to have enough copy-protection to act as a deterrent for casual bootlegging, and ignore the so-called "professional" piracy.

nonarKitten
May 13th, 2006, 20:52
On the subject of homebrew software, Sony was once much warmer to the whole idea than they are now with the Net Yaroze. Now the big question is, would you pay $700 for a totally open PSP that included a little CD with software?

Virtualtaco
May 13th, 2006, 21:13
When talking about the dreamcast you have to realize key differences in why piracy killed it.

-It came out after CD-burning was FAR more widespread
-You didn't need to chip it.

Most people who buy a video game system do not own a soldering iron, do not want to pop open their 200-300 dollar purchase. The vast majority of game systems are not chipped... or no companies would be making money. Since you didn't need to open up the DC and CDburners were just becoming a regular PC accessory when DC came out, your going to have a ton more piracy.

I don't care what DRM comes one future consoles, media formats, whatever. They will always be cracked just as they have been in the past. If you can make it someone can break it, simple as that. PS3 will probably have games loaded onto the hard drive over LAN, and if Blu-Ray is DRM'ed you'll probably copy the games with your ps3... considering it can obviously bypass the DRM.

Now, to the "theft" issue, basically it's about intent. If you know you were going to go buy or rent the game you just downloaded, that's stealing. If you were never going to buy them in the first place... then nothing really happened... because they wouldn't have had your money in the first place. This is vauge and you can't prove it one way or another, but ethicly that's the only criteria you can go on. It's not like every game has a demo so you can't test out every game before you buy it.

You can't use the argument "you aren't taking anything off the shelf" because they aren't selling the media they are selling what's on the media.

Now if you buy a system and only use it for homebrew, the company looses money. If you buy a few games though they make money.

There have to be special circumstances for piracy to kill a system, or else PSone would have failed completely. The Xbox would have gone the way of DC except for it's trump card of Live, which keeps over half of their gamers legit. Xbox still has a softmod but you have to buy a couple games... which is kind of ironic actually...

-Taco

GagaMan
May 13th, 2006, 21:33
I noticed pirate copies of games for the Playstation 2 at boot sales just after the console saw it's Japanese release. I've always thought that as long as you end up buying the game eventally, and it's a game for a console that's not on the market anymore (Saturn, and almost Dreamcast excluding Japan) that makes it a bit less...wrong, I guess.

Owning Pirate games is nothing like owning the real thing, even if you print out the front cover and stick in a proper case, it won't be the same as owning a proper copy with it's manual and the oh-so-lovely CD front image (Sonic R on the Saturn's disc. What a full-colour beauty), so I know even if I ended up with a pirate game, if the game is a goodun I'll go out there and buy the game. If it's a current console, however, I don't go anywhere near them.

Virtualtaco
May 13th, 2006, 21:38
According to Sega, Piracy is not a threat.

Me? I don't really care, we live in a world of controlled famine and starvation, a world were 15% hold the wealth and power, and the rest of us mindless argue over how best to suck up to our corporate masters who keep us down.
So as far as I see it, make sure mouths are fed before worrying about this kind of stuff.

Just a thought.

Guess what. A little concept called equilibrium will show that without some miracle technological breakthrough (I say miracle only relevant to the effect, it's quite possible technology of this magnetude can happen due to the exponential growth of technology). There are going to be starving people in this world when a society has built itself to the point to where it can mass produce PCs. You are part of this "problem" that you seem to think was created by a few people who knew what they were doing. You're complaining about people not doing anything about world hunger on a tech forum! Sell your PC, sell your house, use the money to buy a bunch of food and rent a cargo plane to africa. Then we won't have to listen to you while we push technology forward since that's the only real chance we have.

-Taco

dupp
May 13th, 2006, 21:49
ok, does piracy hurt a console? In a way it does, and in a way it doesnt. Console manufacturers dont make money on console sales at all. In fact as of late, they have been losing alot of money for each console sold.

BUT, look at the XBOX, a lot more xboxes were sold during its life time due to people either messing up modding their xbox or whatnot. A majority of the time when a person has a console they usually will purchase a game or two.

Now do I believe that pirating games is wrong? in a way. I know a majority of people here have MP3s they downloaded on their computers, or have ROMS of older games on their computers as well. Here is my philosophy -- you can download a ISO, download an MP3, download a ROM all you like BUT if you like it....buy it. This avoids buying games that suck, buying a movie that you dont like, or buying a CD that you will never listen to.

Also dealing with the PSP. Having ISOs on the PSP could have legit reasons. With all the FW updates blocking HB. Untill there comes a RunUMD that can play all the newer games I believe as long as you purchase the UMD you should be allowed to have the ISO. Now this does not mean your allowed to download an ISO and say your going to get the UMD "eventually"

ok - im done.
co-sign ... i bought smackdown vs raw and i cant even play it because im not going to go to 2.5 :( i cant find an iso either

samidgley
May 14th, 2006, 00:09
Well, Loadsa games cost money now even after you legally by them such as FFX, I won't buy this edition to an amamzing system as I can't afford to pay a subscription fee as well. Software companies do charge far too much for what they paying.

On the subject of th edreamcast I bought so so many of those games and thought they were amazing but ifI can download them for free for the PC I will.

This isn't really an arguemnt this just is how I am, I tend to download games and CDs but if they are particually good I will eventuyally buy them, particually with music CDs

r2works
May 14th, 2006, 00:32
I would have to say yes and no.

Yes because it obviously hurts small developing companies who are just trying to get their foot in the door.

No because these console companies are apart of a larger billion dollar corporate monopoly. I feel no remorse for a company who exploits poverty countries to manufacture X-box chips and video cards.

but thats just me.

fatcamp
May 14th, 2006, 00:35
No ones mentioned "professional" piracy? People actually making money on duplicated software to finance organized crime. That is where I think it gets really bad and nasty.

Ennohex
May 14th, 2006, 00:43
Believe what you want. Piracy helps the economy by providing jobs for the people who have to monitor it, and those who have to enforce the copyright laws.

Piracy often creates applications that help legitimate users. I personally own a Pal PS2 with an hdloader set-up. Barring the fact that this device is most pirate friendly, I use it so that I can play NTSC games on my pal ps2. (Note: PAL game locally - 500 Rand, NTSC import - 140 Rand incl. tax) So, it saves ME money. It also lengthens the life of my PS2's laser AND I decrease the wear and tear on my PS2 discs.

Here in South Africa the general populace are pretty uninformed. Back in the Megadrive and Nes era, we THOUGHT we were buying original games on the carts when, apparently, we wern't.

I do however think that if you BUY any game on a single format, that you shouldn't have to re-purchase it for another... but that topic may have to be opened for discussion on another thread.

Just a couple of late night/early morning thoughts...

kcc86
May 14th, 2006, 01:21
Believe what you want. Piracy helps the economy by providing jobs for the people who have to monitor it, and those who have to enforce the copyright laws.

That's a good point no one even brought up.

This is a little off topic, but who thinks priacy is going to kill the PSP? It's just too easy to play isos on that thing. It seems like every other person has a 1.5 psp also.

SSaxdude
May 14th, 2006, 01:42
No. If I couldn't get free games for my PSP through isos, I probably would have sold it long ago. Some Dreamcast games are hard to find or never released, and without piracy I could never try those games out.

psiko_scweek
May 14th, 2006, 02:47
Ok,

Piracy DOESNT hurt consoles but rather the GAME DEVELOPERS. The ONLY reason i can see for having a pirated game are for these two reasons

1) The game is outdated , i.e. NES, SNES, Genisis games. Yeah they are constantly re-releasing games from the older consoles unto newer ones...but playing a game from a system that isnt being supported by their maker means they really are not losing money on that. But dont download games for a console that is still being supported (i.e. PS2, Xbox, NDS, PSP, or anything other new gen system...that includes the GBA)

2) To test it out. Im a firm believer in the try it before you buy it program. That means download the game - see if you like it. if you do buy it..if you dont delete it. If you cant download it, rent it.

heh, there are two more cents from me.

oh yeah --

you should NEVER sell the pirated games you have - thats just wrong. If someone else wants it...make them find it.

you CAN steal something that isnt physical. If i stole your idea for a game (that you told me or had in a TXT file...) and made 1000s of dollars on it, youd be pissed right? think about it.

aries2k4
May 14th, 2006, 03:31
Yes and no. I just read the whole thread and I agree with alot of opinions on both sides. Theres no definitive answer for this one. I feel bad for the little company thats trying to get itīs foot in the door, yes piracy hurts them. But the huge monopolies(that use cutthroat tactics themselves), I feel no pity for. I liked the cartoon.
As for the piracy killing the psp, I doubt it. I think Sony might do more damage to itself(with its piracy paranoia). Donīt forget this is the company that put a rootkit in their audio cds(illegaly) and then lied about it. with there constant firmware updates it seems theyīre trying their best to push away the homebrew community. Another thing I donīt agree on is , There should be a mandatory firmware requirement listed on the packaging. I have to buy the game to find out if I can play as is? nope thats wrong. High priced umds sure ainīt going to be helping video sales either. Lets see how the game selection is going to be, I feel the psp is getting seriously neglected due to the psp3. If there are good games, people will buy them but if they suck, the piracy thing doesnt really matter(who wants to play a shitty pirated game?)
There is one point I noticed nobody mentioned here. The GAMING industry has now passed the movie industry in sales. Piracy or not Somebodyīs making huge bucks,lol
Well just my 2 cents, Peace!

crazyjohn
May 14th, 2006, 04:19
"This is a little off topic, but who thinks priacy is going to kill the PSP?"

No it wont. You have to remember that the psp is not *just* a gaming device. Sony would surely recognises that not every1 is going to use it for games and thus unlike some other consoles (e.g. Xbox) they would be turing a profit on the hardware itself. If everybody used pirated games sony would still be making money, just not as mush as they might like. It would have an impact on developers though and may drive some away from the system, but the psp would not die.

Anyway I dont think that piracy is really that bigger issue on the PSP. Sure many people here have 1.5s (Maybe a little under half?) but then again for most of them that's cause they dont wanna loose homebrew. The average psp owner doesn't know how to use isos and has no second thoughts in updating firmware. Honestly I think if Sony allowed homebrew (But still made loaders illigal) and sold an official, supported SDK people us there would be less of an anti-sony sentiment amoungst us tech types and people would be more inclined to by their games. I refuse to upgrade and as a result they loose out in me not buying games. Stupid sony.......

Emulation_Chief
May 14th, 2006, 08:43
Hello:

This is always the main topic for everyone in the industry. How they can make ways to reduce piracy of copywrited content. It is impossible to eliminated. As long as people creates laws and restrictions there is always someone daring enough to bend them or break them.

In the case of the video game industry, every new console means the next level of entertainment development. Each console or handheld incarnation takes a lot fo time, effort and money to create a proper software that match these criteria. Each time more expensive than the last one. They want to make sure they can, at least, go to a break-point in the sales of their products.

Piracy constitutes the major threat for every single developer. They can estimate that hundreds of millions of dollars are losing each time their games are sold pirated. Losing software sales always accompany the raise in hardware sales in order to get pirated games.

Of course, even I would like to receive free games for the hardware I bought. Not always is the case.

Still the Video Games industry have to be creative to make sales for the games they put on the store shelves.

We will see the future of the next-gen consoles in the endless battle against piracy as the years passed.

muffinman
May 14th, 2006, 20:24
ive got to say i feel nothing wrong about "stealing" from microsoft. I bought xp the first time rebuilt my pc and they expect me to pay another 100 or so quid (which i just cant afford) crazy :s.

anyways if i like a game i buy it legally i just like the whole deal of a new non pirated game

Video_freak
May 14th, 2006, 21:24
what i was thinking is that sure, piracy brings console sales up, but software sales down. since companies lose money making consoles and make money back with software sales, piracy is definantly bad for the companies that make consoles. (and the companies that make games too)

Voltron
May 14th, 2006, 23:37
It's just too easy to play isos on the PSP. It seems like every other person has a 1.5 psp also.

It is easy to play EARLIER PSP games in ISO form. Newer games require sophisticated loaders, special folders and files on root of memory stick, PPF patches, replacement of PRX files, etc. etc. And you can ONLY play ISO's on 1.50 PSP's period. Not 1.51, 1.52, 2.00, etc.

I would be very interested in finding or learning the facts about how many 1.50 PSP users there are. Is it just in the thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions? I'm guessing its in the tens of thousands at most.

I hope there are 1,000,000 1.50 PSP users or more but that is probably not likely. The more 1.50 PSP users, the stronger PSP homebrew will get and it will continue to expand as fast as it is.

I don't know the latest sales figures of the PSP but I know that the cumulative production shipment of its PSP handheld had reached 10 million units worldwide, as of October 21st, 2005. Shipment of 10 million units within 10 months since launch is the fastest penetration of any PlayStation platform from the past.

With that said I think it would be safe to assume that Sony has probably now sold 15-20 million. Out of all the millions of PSP owners, how many actually download ISO's? I know for sure it is in the thousands. I don't think it is enough of a widespread threat to cause major harm to the Sony PSP.

I am not afraid to admit that I download PSP ISO's. Mostly Japanese & Europe-Only games that I can't get elsewhere without paying a high price and large import shipping costs. Hell, I am downloading a Europe-Only game right now as I type this. I love playing ISO's as a lot of games can be reduced to a small size, they load & play faster, and I can have several on my memory stick at the same time. No switching UMD's everytime I need to play a different game. To those with higher firmwares who have never tried or have been able to play ISO's, it is easy to think it is too much of a hassle to bother with and flame the people who admit to it. But if those people tried it, they would see that it is pretty cool and a lot of games with deadly loading times are much more enjoyable in ISO form.

I must also state that I do also own close to 30 LEGAL commercial UMD games. I am a collector at heart with obsessive compulsive tendencies :-) so I like to have the case, manual, and all the other goodies in a complete mint condition package. So even though I can download some games, I'll still want to buy the actual UMD. And I think any PSP owner who has purchased 30 UMD games in just a little over a year is the favorite kind of customer to Sony.

Another thing I need to point out is that in a way Sony has forced me to resort to playing ISO's. I don't want to upgrade past 1.50 firmware. But if the ONLY way for me to play games like Lemmings, Ys Ark of Napishtim, Monster Hunter Freedom, Mega Man, Gradius, etc. etc. is to back them up to ISO then that is what I must do. UMD games should be playable on ALL firmwares unless the game utilizes some feature only capable with a higher firmware. Most games that can't be played via UMD on 1.50 CAN still be played on the PSP in ISO form so a higher firmware is not necessary to run the game. This proves that its just Sony's way to try and keep homebrew quarantined to a very small percentage.

Sony, you need to allow all commercial UMD games to run on 1.50 PSP's or I will continue to use ISO's. Simple as that. And I know others feel the same.

But anyway, with all that said, my point is that although playing pirated games on the PSP may be easier than on some other platforms, it is not a widespread practice large enough to significantly impact the PSP's lifespan. The PSP is not going anywhere. Us homebrew & ISO users are not killing the PSP. If anything, we are helping the PSP.

Yet another thing I must put a strong emphasis on is that it is much easier to download Nintendo GBA & DS ROMS. Get a cheap Super Pass cart and a 1GB SD memory card and voila! Unlimited FREE GBA games on any GBA, GBA MICRO, DS, DS Lite, etc. What's funny about this is that Nintendo is always beating Sony when it comes to both hardware & software sales of their portable devices. Nintendo is doing better than ever and it is all due to the GBA & DS. Much easier pirated than the PSP. So again, piracy in terms of the portable gaming market is not that large of a threat and not causing much harm.

The ironic thing to all of this is that we are all helping Sony combat Piracy. Many corporations and 3rd party developers have teams assigned to gather "human intelligence" - Some are called community management teams. They scour the WEB to monitor all of these forums, fan-made websites, etc. It is very easy for these teams to infiltrate forums such as this and gather this information pretending to be just another homebrew user. None of us would be able to tell otherwise. So as soon as an exploit is found or a new firmware decrypted, or a new game is patched to play in ISO form, SONY and the 3rd party developers know just as soon as we do and are able to plug the hole that was found. We do most of the work for them.

Sony won't be trying to shut down this website or any others. We are a valuable tool and reliable source of intel for them.

Now back to my ISO download ;-)

nonarKitten
May 15th, 2006, 15:49
That's a good point no one even brought up.

This is a little off topic, but who thinks priacy is going to kill the PSP? It's just too easy to play isos on that thing. It seems like every other person has a 1.5 psp also.

No, what's going to kill the PSP is a) the games and b) Nintendo. Either alone wouldn't kill it, but unless Sony stops wasting their time playing heavy-hand on homebrew developers and starts focusing on taking down the GB empire, it will eventually fail.

Video_freak
May 16th, 2006, 06:05
And you can ONLY play ISO's on 1.50 PSP's period.

you can also play ISO's on 1.00:D

stotheamuel
May 16th, 2006, 06:09
starts focusing on taking down the GB empire, it will eventually fail.

Its not in competition with game boy... its with the ds... and i say its better and i think people are a little too high up on their mighty ds thrones pointing out negitives about psp

and i believe now (after the 1,000 updates) isos wont kill psp but still shouldnt be downloaded. i believe developers deserve their full money in what they get... but it wont kill thm and they have no where to complain when people download