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DCEmu_Newsposter
August 22nd, 2004, 12:48
Axlen posted a rather interesting bit of news in this CSV Topic (http://www.consolevision.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3369) [br][br] Using a USB-Serial UART Interface Module from DLP Design I built a coders cable that allows transfering data at 500,000 baud. The DLP-USB232M is based on a chip manufactured by FTDI. It has drivers for Windows, MAC, and Linux. The required mods to dc-load-serial are minimal and consist of enabling the use of the faster baud. This is the next best thing to a BBA or lan-adaptor for development. I foolishly sold my BBA two years ago and just recently decided to get back into the dcdev world. [br] [br]I wish to thank yuckymucky for providing the link to the FTDI homepage. [br] [br]If anyone has is any interest in building a cable I will post more info to m website over the next few weeks. [br][br]Lets hope we see more of this new project ;)

WHurricane16
August 23rd, 2004, 18:38
now, that's great news :D

souLLy
August 24th, 2004, 08:41
very interesting

Athiril
August 24th, 2004, 10:05
So if I have a Broadband Adapter or LAN Adapter I dont need a coders cable for development?

BBA adapter and LAN adapter should be exact same (if they are both ethernet interface) thing in theory, as it's TCP/IP standard for IP address, subnet mask, DHCP server, DNS server, Gateway etc, LAN adapter should work for broadband, plug into a ADSL ethernet router...

fackue
August 24th, 2004, 15:09
So if I have a Broadband Adapter or LAN Adapter I dont need a coders cable for development?
Correct.

Although I'm trying to get rid of my coders cable. I've got 2, and I'm keeping 1. I need the money, so I'm trying to sell it for $10. I think $3 shipping will do.

If anyone is interested, please drop me a line at [email protected]. First come, first serve.

Mental2k
August 24th, 2004, 17:45
Isnt it just cheaper to buy a coders cable though?

Hola
August 24th, 2004, 17:57
I think coders cables are $10 new and $5 shipping so your saving $2.

Kamjin
August 24th, 2004, 19:55
Just to jump a bit to the side, I built my brother a coder cable.. now with all great things.. his laptop has no serial ports so he picked up one of those usb-serial devices.. But dc-tool doesn't appear to work with it.. it litterally transfers a byte.. then doesn't do anything after that. before he goes and codes a native win32 app to talk to dcload, anyone know what could be causing the problem?? both the 'nix and cygwin builds have the same effect.
Using marcus tool an sending srecs via terminal works.. albeit slowwww but works..

fackue
August 24th, 2004, 22:00
I think coders cables are $10 new and $5 shipping so your saving $2.
Actually, they're about $25 shipped. Check Lik-Sang and Play-Asia.

Anyway, I got an offer and I'm trying to get it worked out with them living in the UK.

tyrell
August 25th, 2004, 04:58
I got a BBA and I don't need the coder's cable now (but I will keep it in case ...). Coder's cable is a very cheap and useful solution. If you are serious about developing though, get a BBA, even if it costs a lot more (fyi it cost me $200).

wraggster
August 25th, 2004, 10:49
$200 ouch :(

Mental2k
August 25th, 2004, 16:41
I meant wouldnt it be cheaper to just buy the coders cable, than buy a BBA and USB cable thing.

pboese
September 13th, 2004, 20:32
Ack :o The CSV USB-Serial topic got trashed during a recent YABB upgrade :(

souLLy
September 16th, 2004, 07:50
I meant wouldnt it be cheaper to just buy the coders cable, than buy a BBA and USB cable thing.

yeah but a coders cable transfers data really slowly in comparison to a bba or a usb connection would

wraggster
September 16th, 2004, 12:22
would archive.org have a copy of the topic?

pboese
September 24th, 2004, 18:20
yeah but coders cable transfers data really slowly in comparison to a bba or a usb connection would

This cable transfers data at 1.56M baud. It's fast enough to do serious development work ;D A 4 meg file can transfer in about 26 seconds with compression.

Alexvrb
September 25th, 2004, 01:44
Cool. I remember discussing something similar over at DCEmu a while ago. Somebody should start making and selling these things.

pboese
September 26th, 2004, 21:32
Here's a picture of the second prototype:
http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/usb-proj-B02.jpg

I've started work on designing a printed circuit board that will use the FTDI FT232BM chip and a handful of other parts rather than the DLP-USB232BM module pictured above. It would be nice if I could get a popular supplier of DC stuff to sell this as new improved coders cable ;)

Alexvrb
September 27th, 2004, 00:30
Why are you replacing it, cost/size? Anyway, you could probably get Lik-Sang interested in it.

pboese
October 2nd, 2004, 15:55
This is just a prototype. I'm not happy with it' yet. I've done some redesign and just ordered some more parts. Revision B will solve the problems I've seen with the device under WindowsME and OS-X.

wraggster
October 2nd, 2004, 16:02
makes you wonder if you could sell these yourself and how much for etc, once you have all the details sorted

Eric
October 2nd, 2004, 16:14
Damn i just read this and this would be good news for the coders i dont know how fast the original cables are but it seems its a hell of a lot faster

Alexvrb
October 2nd, 2004, 17:29
Eric, you're making this a habit. It is a lot faster, but you need to have something to compare it to. The standard coder's cable uses the serial port on the DC and the serial port on a computer. That only gets you up to about 115 kbits. The Dreamcast's serial port is capable of much more, so by building a USB <-> DC interface you can get much closer to the DC serial max. ~1.5 mbits would be a huge boost for coders who don't own a BBA/LAN adapter.

Axlen: I'm glad to hear you're working out its issues. Once you have something you're happy with, you should definitely see if someone is interested in building them. You could build them yourself, if you were so inclined. I'm sure the price would beat the pants off buying a BBA off ebay.

quzar
October 3rd, 2004, 00:03
i need one of these!

Eric
October 3rd, 2004, 01:08
hey thanks alex for the info on that but i dont know why you make a habit of making me look stupid

elefas
October 3rd, 2004, 04:53
There are in the market some serial-to-usb adaptors for pc. They cost around 30 euros (in Greece). if we connect a DC coder's cable to the one end and the other to a usb port on the pc won't it work faster than the usual rs232 interface???

Alexvrb
October 3rd, 2004, 21:56
Perhaps that is because they designed it to be compatible with standard RS232 serial devices. Or perhaps it is a limitation with the serial coder's cable itself. I don't know. But it's not the same as a custom USB to DC serial solution like the talented Axlen is working on.

Eric: I'm sorry if you feel that way, but you really do need to reign in your enthusiasm sometimes. If you don't know, you can always ask. But if you assume, you make an ass out of some guy named Ume. (that's the Home Improvement version of that joke)

pboese
October 5th, 2004, 19:16
I'm working on revision B, no I should say revision B is designed. This version will be built on a printed circuit board. Just submitted the layout to ExpressPCB lastnight. It's a 4 layer board and it will fit into a RadioShack 3x2x1 project enclosure. I went a little overboard and ordered the soldermask and silkscreening options. So if the boards don't work at least they will look pretty ;D

As far as manufacturing goes I have not made up my mind. A kit version of the current design would be too advanced since the surface mount parts are terribly small. A design based on the DLP module would be kitable, and may make more sense in the long run as far as kits are concerned.

A built and tested unit would probably be easier to market and sell. I'm doing this for fun now with an eye on possibly making them available for sale. It costs more to build then a standard serial coders cable, but should be less than a BBA. It seems there is interest in this USB-Serial UART based coders cable, but I'm not sure if there is enough to make it cover the costs and still make a modest profit. After I test and debug this next version perhaps one of the admins can setup a pole to plumb the hearts and minds of the DC faithful. The last thing I want to do is get everyones hopes up and then end up with a vaporware product.

Darksaviour69
October 6th, 2004, 06:09
polls can be missleading, someone could vote, so u will make them for coders, but might have no intention of buy one.

a pre-pre-order, like cagame's did would be more usefull cause u will know how much people willing to pay and u will have there names too.

i think quzar would be your first customer
;)

Alexvrb
October 6th, 2004, 15:52
If you don't want to go it alone, but still want to get this into people's hands, you could contact one lik-sang, lan-kwei, one of those sites. They might be interested in your work. Otherwise you have to figure out what you can get the cost down to on your own and see if there's enough people who want one. I know one big problem is that a good amount of coders caved and bought a BBA.

Ian_micheal
October 6th, 2004, 16:22
Maybe Staff here can buy some and offer them for contests in the future. I know with the slow speed of the coders cable larger projects i dont even attempt any more.

pboese
October 11th, 2004, 22:02
Prizes aye! I've already had offers from folx willing to test'em fer me. Slow coders cables sux, but they're good for debug output... if you have BBA or Lan Adaptor that is ;)

I sold my BBA thinking I'd never get bit by the DC bug again... thus the USB-Serial UART based coders cable was born.

BTW: I got word (email) today from ExpressPCB that my boards are complete and have been shipped. Yea! There will be some toaster oven soldering this weekend fer sure :D That is if my solder paste supplier comes through with my order :P

pboese
October 12th, 2004, 21:52
Pics of the bare board Rev B:
http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/pcbrevb.jpg http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/pcbnbox.jpg

ExpressPCB does nice work, and they turned them around before the promised delivery day of 21-October 8)

There is an error in the layout.. :-[ but I'll tell you more about that after I build and test the new board.

Alexvrb
October 15th, 2004, 00:39
Error, in what you sent them or in what they produced? Something you can fix easily by hand, I hope?

pboese
October 17th, 2004, 00:19
Just posted some pics of the solder reflow operation on the Console Vision (http://www.consolevision.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3369&start=30) forums.

wraggster
October 17th, 2004, 03:05
Heres what Axlen posted over at CSV for those who are too lazy :P

Here are a few images of my first attempt at toaster oven IR reflow soldering this evening:

http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/workarea.jpg http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/tinyparts.jpg
My work area. / Tiny parts.
http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/myview.jpg http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/mounting.jpg
My eyes need some help. / Ceramic mounts on a bunsen burner screen: Yes those are brass paper fasteners holding the board onto the screen :wink:
http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/pcbgooped.jpg http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/oven.jpg
Components in wet solder paste. The little red chip is the temperature marker. When the board reaches 215C it melts. / The IR source.
http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/pcbbaked.jpg http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/pcbreflowed.jpg
In the oven. / Cooled and ready for the next step. Note the black blob left by the temperature marker.

I purchased the toaster oven at Target on cleareance for about $20 off regular price. I guess nobody liked the color :wink: The box was opened so it might have been an unwanted sweetest day gift... Damit Carl, I said I wanted to toast our love with champaign, not a toaster oven...

The solder paste was easier to apply than I antisipated, but it's pretty hard to guage how much to put on each pad. There is one IC not yet mounted... because... well... the pads are the wrong size :oops: I choose the right shape and number of pins from the library, but I overlooked the pad spacing. Those are 0.5mm and the actual part uses 0.8mm... ouch! Never fear though I have a plan to solve the problem... an ugly plan, but a plan none the less :twisted:

Thanks to axlen for the news :)

Cereal
October 17th, 2004, 15:05
So when are these gonna go into mass production and replace the old coders cables?

pboese
October 17th, 2004, 18:09
The short answer:
1) Testing, verifying, beating unit up mercilessly...
2) Muntz the design: i.e. get rid of any non-critical parts and reduce costs...
3) Kid test it.

Alexvrb
October 21st, 2004, 21:12
4) Mother approve it?

lame I know... anyway, good luck.

pboese
October 22nd, 2004, 00:18
Mothers approval is only important if she catches you in the act :P

pboese
October 31st, 2004, 01:20
This latest iteration of the USB-Serial Coders Cable uses a hi-speed digital isolator that solves all the leakage problems that I was seeing before. Now the DC and PC are electrically isolated from each other. The power state of either deivice is of no consequence to this latest design. Current cannot not flow from one device to the other now. I was concerned that leakage currents might damage the DC or the USB chip. Now those issues have been solved.

The following picture shows a VERY HACKED up Rev B pcb with the new isolation circuit married up with the DLP USB Module.

http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/pcbhack.jpg

Another copy of this will be made and sent to a Mac user for testing. Now I can seriously think about laying out a new pcb. What do you guys think about enclosing the board in a translucent ice blue case with a nice blue LED to indicate data flow?

WHurricane16
October 31st, 2004, 06:24
This is just an awesome project. Good luck, Axlen!

Segata_Sanshiro
October 31st, 2004, 16:28
lol it really looks hacked, and I have no idea about this kind of things. I really admire the work people like you do.

pboese
October 31st, 2004, 22:23
Well I plugged the *HACKED* board into the DC *LIVE* and blew an input. An input on the digital isolator, not the DC serial port thankfully (whew) 8) Unfortunatly the DC's serial plug is not designed for HOT PLUG use. Ideally the ground and power would be applied first followed by the IO pins. So that brings me to the need to create an input protection circuit. The TVS (ESD) input diode array I'm using does nothing to help protect against this problem, just kiddes walking across the carpet and making pretty sparks when they touch stuff :P Back to the drawing board ;)

Thanks for the encouragement everyone.

::) Of course I could just take the easy way out and put a warning note on the cable warning the end user to turn off the DC before attaching the coders cable to it. ::)

WHurricane16
November 1st, 2004, 05:40
::) Of course I could just take the easy way out and put a warning note on the cable Â*warning the end user to turn off the DC before attaching the coders cable to it. Â* ::) Â*

Well, Joe Snuffy won't be buying this but Joe DCDev will....so maybe just issueing the warning will suffice.

Alexvrb
November 1st, 2004, 21:10
Make sure you use a phrase including "under penalty of death". Unless you feel it is easy enough to resolve it in the cable design.

pboese
November 6th, 2004, 22:23
Well I took the time to finish up my Bravado Rev B board and fixed the problem with the smb package layout. I had to use a kluge to do it and it looks awful, but guess what, the darn thing actually works. Here's some pictures of the awful looking thing.

http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/pcbrevbfix1.jpg http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/pcbrevbfix2.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/pcbrevbfix3.jpg http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/pcbrevbfix4.jpg

So there it is, my first 4 layer pcb with an ugly fix. Work continues on another version as previously mentioned.

Alexvrb
November 7th, 2004, 18:11
Damn, a hardware kluge. Still, if it works, kick ass.

pboese
November 7th, 2004, 20:30
This is just ugly but true side of hardware development. Unless of course you've got many years of experience and a lot of luck ;D You can screwed by vendors obsoleting parts, errors in technical data, etc. In this case it was my fault since I should have been more careful selecting the package layout for the FTDI chip. It was kind of confusing. I did not realize that there are two different pad pitches for the LQFP32 package. .8mm for the 7x7mm package and .5mm for the 5x5mm package. Of course I choose the wrong one :P Now I know better of course. ::)

DreamDogg
November 7th, 2004, 21:12
Wonderful project. I will be interested in buying one when it's finished. I would regard the protection circuit as an extra feature, and it would justify a higher retail price in my mind. I am willing to pay a little bit extra for a product that's idiot-proof.

Kortex
November 13th, 2004, 19:05
Hello, i think that this mod is very good for all dc coders, it's an interesting idea.i think that if is possible connect a memory card reader (memory stick, compact flash....) and boot software using your usb conector? how the gp32, if this was possible will be fantastic for all people could boot software without burn cd-r. When the project will be finished i will buy one.
Cheers,
Kortex

pboese
November 14th, 2004, 00:08
This device is simply a faster version of the venerable serial coders cable built by Marcus Comsteldt and later sold commerically by Lik-Sang. It does not add a USB port to the DC so you can't plug a USB drive into it. This is essentially a USB-Serial cable with 3.3v ttl interface that connects directly to the DC's serial connector, bypassing the RS232 electical and bandwidth issues. The top baud of this device is 1.56M baud as compared to 115200 baud of a typical serial coders cable. Sorry to dash your hopes. This is a far simpler project then trying to add a USB host controller and device drivers to a DC. You are not the first person I've heard from who has wanted to plug USB devices into a DC for just the reasons you stated.

semicolo
November 14th, 2004, 01:23
And even if you manage to plut a memory or disk somehow to the dreamcast, there's no way to boot on it whithout rom modification or first booting on a cd.

Kortex
November 14th, 2004, 07:40
This device is simply a faster version of the venerable serial coders cable built by Marcus Comsteldt and later sold commerically by Lik-Sang. Â*It does not add a USB port to the DC so you can't plug a USB drive into it. Â*This is essentially a USB-Serial cable with 3.3v ttl interface that connects directly to the DC's serial connector, bypassing the RS232 electical and bandwidth issues. Â*The top baud of this device is 1.56M baud as compared to 115200 baud of a typical serial coders cable. Â*Sorry to dash your hopes. Â*This is a far simpler project then trying to add a USB host controller and device drivers to a DC. Â*You are not the first person I've heard from who has wanted to plug USB devices into a DC for just the reasons you stated.
Thanks for your answer, i think that my english isn't good :D and i can't say all i want say, i know that your usb cable isn't a usb, but i think that if will be possible use a memory card reader using the correct software and adapting it to your cable (you understand me?) for work with the dreamcast. Sorry if my english isn't good, the next time i try explain me better. Thanks.
Cheers, Kortex

Alexvrb
November 14th, 2004, 18:43
Kortex, what they are trying to say is that you can't run software without a CD anyway. So even if you had a memory card with software on it, you still need a CD to boot from.

Kochise
November 15th, 2004, 03:56
I just wanted to know if the USB coder cable is currently 'finished', the schema reached a stable revision... I want to integrate this on a little PCI board to fit my dev DC inside my PC (PCI -> ATX power with 3.3 v, internal USB coder cable -> PC mobo, VGA box on rear panel, IDE interface on G2 bus, joypad connectors on front 5"1/4 panel, ...).

What is the last schematic available ? Thanks for having made this possible ;)

Kochise, the poor lonesome coder...

pboese
November 17th, 2004, 20:06
The design is nearly finished. I've solved the leakage and ESD issues so now I'm going to have small run of prototype pcb's made.

wraggster
November 17th, 2004, 20:23
it will be interesting to see what speed you get in comparison to a coders cable/BBA

semicolo
November 18th, 2004, 05:24
Well it goes up to 1562500 bps, the max rate of the dc, like dcxfer cards.
A standard coders cable is dependent on the serial port of the pc so it will transfer up to 115200 bps, but I could push mine to 520833 bps on a special serial port.
The BBA is a 100Mbps lan adapter.

Kochise
November 18th, 2004, 07:15
The BBA is no more available. PERIOD ! I would have bought one is possible, but NOT at 160 $/€ on eBay...

Kochise

Chaotis
November 18th, 2004, 13:08
Wow, this stuff looks like a lot of fun. I'm taking electronics and computer classes in college but this stuff is still above and beyond me hardware wise.

I would be very interested in buying one.

LordC
November 22nd, 2004, 16:28
oh!!!

i will be very intereste on spare board with all the hardware alrready soldered to improve my dc mod (a DC on SEGA Saturn case with a lot of extras: reset, serial, vga...etc)+

there some way yo get it?

thxs

pboese
November 22nd, 2004, 20:35
I've made a major improvement in the interface between the USB chip and the DC serial port. No new boards yet. In the process of updating the schematic and re-laying out a pcb.

Kochise
November 23rd, 2004, 08:13
http://www.embedtronics.com/usb/usb232.html

Kochise

Alexvrb
November 23rd, 2004, 12:59
Isn't that going to be limited to standard RS232 speeds, Kochise?

Kochise
November 24th, 2004, 03:22
I don't now, I juste found the link. I guess it would be some limitations in speed, but hell, I just provided the URL for information about technology issue, nothing more ;D

Kochise

semicolo
November 24th, 2004, 05:37
it is a "standard" 1500000 bps application of the ft232 chip, axlen design must be close to this.

pboese
November 24th, 2004, 21:11
http://www.embedtronics.com/usb/usb232.html

Kochise

That project is based on an older version of the chip that I'm using in this design. The design problem to be solved is a bit different since the RS232 level shifting circuitry is not needed. In a sense it's simpler, yet also more complicated. The older FTDI chip was also more limited in the bauds that could be set. Thanks for the link though. It is interesting to see other designs based on the chip family.

DreamDogg
November 26th, 2004, 00:20
Exciting project!

Axlen I am sure the many forum readers have electronics components (usb cables) or miscellaneous electronics salvage junk lying around collecting dust. I know I do. Are there any parts that you'd accept as donations ?

LordC
November 28th, 2004, 11:13
hi!
???

http://www.softio.com/map950pcisingle16950lp3.htm ????

pboese
November 28th, 2004, 12:33
hi!
???

http://www.softio.com/map950pcisingle16950lp3.htm ????


Looks like a nice board. It might work with a little hacking. 1M baud is not supported by the DC.

I finished laying out the REV D board. Now I need to print it out and check it any errors in package sizes, etc. I'm not rushing this on purpose. Will keep you posted.

pboese
November 28th, 2004, 21:20
Whew! Just sent in the gerber and drill files for the Rev D pcb's to the board manufacturer. This is the final revision (crosses fingers). :) I'll put up more pictures once the boards are populated and encased! Then we'll start talking about a production run for anyone interested in getting their hands on one of these gadgets. I'll probably need to get commitments from about 50 people. I'll post pricing info after these final boards are tested.

And yes, I will post the final schematic too.

semicolo
November 29th, 2004, 16:42
I'll ask on the french board if somebody wants one axlen.

LordC, you could either hack this boad to reach the 1562500 bps needed by the dreamcast (the chip U8 may be a PLL as we don't see any quartz on the board) or use it at 500kbps, not so bad already.

semicolo
November 30th, 2004, 03:19
Axlen, could you give us a price for a fully build dc-usb cable, an estimation could help me in selling it on the french board (or not selling it ;D).

souLLy
November 30th, 2004, 04:14
ill be buying one :)

pboese
November 30th, 2004, 21:45
Axlen, could you give us a price for a fully build dc-usb cable, an estimation could help me in selling it on the french board (or not selling it ;D).

I'm pulling the numbers together this week while I wait for the pcb's to be delivered. I'll make an effort to have something by the end of the coming weekend. Right now I'm assuming people will want fully built and tested units.

pboese
December 2nd, 2004, 19:38
I have run the numbers and I believe a fair price for the finished tested USB Coders cable should be $49.00 (USD). I'm considering how to take pre-orders and also some other issues right now. Post your comments/gripes here ;)

Chaotis
December 2nd, 2004, 23:23
Will you be including the software for both pc and dc? ^^ Sounds good to me since the slow serial adapter is already 25$ plus shipping. I plan on getting one.

semicolo
December 3rd, 2004, 04:05
The softwares needed are freely downloadable.

Axlen, I assume this doesn't include shipping, it should be some bucks more for France.

pboese
December 3rd, 2004, 20:06
The softwares needed are freely downloadable.

Axlen, I assume this doesn't include shipping, it should be some bucks more for France.

Shipping and handling would of course be extra. The margin is not big enough to absorb those costs. Shipping costs are too variable depending on where it's going. Then there are the issues with international shipments. My eye's are being open'd wide by all the little costs that add up very quickly when you start to consider selling anything on-line. My aim here is to make a useful product available for a fair price. I can't compete with the mega-companies building DVD players and selling (dumping) them for $29.97 at Walmart :P

Chaotis
December 4th, 2004, 11:58
Maybe talk to lik-sang about selling them. Not sure what kind of agreement you could come to so that you still get something in return for the work you've done but I bet they could produce it in greater amounts and take care of selling them and stuff. Just an idea.

semicolo
December 4th, 2004, 13:34
You would have 2 (maybe 3) clients in france for now. They are willing to pay 45 euros maximum, the $ is relatively low today so it sould be ok with shipping included.

pboese
December 5th, 2004, 20:34
This odd world economy right now is favoring some American manufacturers. The Canadian goverment is threatening to apply 100% tarriffs to yachts and boats made here in the states. ::)

FYI, I'm in talks with online merchants right now to sell the USB Coders Cables. Nothing to report right now. No deals, no bytes, but no bad news yet either :D

Alexvrb
December 6th, 2004, 19:27
Hopefully you can work something out with a major vendor. ;) You can call it the Axlen DC Coder's Cable Pro Plus Ultra.

84TAVeRT
December 8th, 2004, 14:58
have you thought about a paypal site for preorders :D
i am planning to get my dremcast back and start playing with it again...

later,
Chris

pboese
December 8th, 2004, 21:21
have you thought about a paypal site for preorders :D
i am planning to get my dremcast back and start playing with it again...

later,
Chris
I'll take a look at what they have to offer if my talks with other sites don't work out. Thanks.

pboese
December 9th, 2004, 22:58
As promised, here's the schematic to the USB Coders Cable. This is the final version. Click on it to view the full size image.
http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/USBCCTHUMB.png (http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/USBCC-F-SCH.png)

Updated schematic revision to "F": Changed resistor on RX2 line from pull-down to pull-up. Prevents spurious activiity on RX2 line when the USB bus is off-line (PC turned off or USB cable unplugged)

pboese
December 10th, 2004, 22:57
The PayPal route seems like an easy way to get the ball rolling. I've used PayPal once a few years ago for an EBay purchase; my Dreamcast. Basically I would accept orders via email. This would be PayPal transactions only. No credit cards. I will add an alias to my email account and post that address when I'm ready to start taking pre-orders (soon). I need to finish up a webpage that will provide you with all the details about the USB Coders Cable features, software links, pics, etc.

The 49 $US plus shipping for each unit still stands. I have not seen a need to change it providing I can keep all my costs down. Not having to fork 2-4% to PayPal per transaction for a merchant account that accepts credit cards is one way. Getting 100+ orders would be another way ;) I don't know if that much interest exists. For all I know this forum topic is visited by one or two real users... 2 VeRy neurotic users and myself ;D

That said, does anyone have a problem with PayPal?

pboese
December 11th, 2004, 14:00
Here's a picture of the populated Rev D pcb. It works great! No leakage issues. This baby is in compliance with USB standards for bus powered devices. As soon as I get the case machined I'll post another picture.
http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/USBCC-D-PCB01-LRG.jpg

pboese
December 11th, 2004, 18:56
Here is the First completed USB Coders Cable.
http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/USBCC-D-BOXED.jpg

Glowing in the dark...
http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/USBCC-D-GLOW.jpg

Another view...
http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/USBCC-D-BOXED2.jpg

Chaotis
December 12th, 2004, 15:56
Wow, that is really well done and professional looking. Amazing job. ^^

84TAVeRT
December 13th, 2004, 10:26
looks very nice... :D

GPF
December 13th, 2004, 11:29
very nice, is everything included for the $49 plus shipping , or will I need a USB cable? Also does it work with the standard dcload 1.03 / dc-tool or is there a new version needed?

How difficult is it to build from your schematics?, I have 2 coder's cables now, so if I hacked off the end of one and and bought the parts etc. How much would I save? It would be a neat project to build, but if my cost saving are low I would prefer buying one, maybe I can find someone to buy my 2 coders cables and then I could aford the usb version :)

Troy

pboese
December 13th, 2004, 20:26
very nice, is everything included for the $49 plus shipping , or will I need a USB cable? Also does it work with the standard dcload 1.03 / dc-tool or is there a new version needed?

How difficult is it to build from your schematics?, I have 2 coder's cables now, so if I hacked off the end of one and and bought the parts etc. How much would I save? It would be a neat project to build, but if my cost saving are low I would prefer buying one, maybe I can find someone to buy my 2 coders cables and then I could aford the usb version :)

Troy

A USB "A" to "B" cable is not included. They can be found online for about 5 $US. Don't wate your money at Best Buy or Radio Shack. Those cables are way over-priced . Unless of course you like the shiney gold connectors 8)

With regard to dcload 1.03. If you are happy with 115200 baud then it willl work with that. If you want to take fulll advantage of 1.56M baud then you will want a copy of dcload-serial 1.0.4. I have not made a formal release of it yet pending the release of some new USB drivers for the Mac OS/X. It works well with windows (Cygwin), and Linux.

Hacking off a serial coder connector is what I did for the first prototype. It would not save you much. I'm working to keep the costs low, thus no included USB "A"-"B" cable.

You could build it from the schmatics, but if you are not used to working with surface mount components you might have some trouble. I considered making it using a pre-built USB Module from DLP designs, but the cost for that part alone is $25! That's what I used for the early prototypes, I knew I'd have to roll my own board to get any cost savings.

I'm not sure if I'll have to include a CD-R with the basic tools for Linux and Windows. I'll make them available for D/L of course. Some basic instructions will of course be needed. It's a developers tool primarily, so I'd hope the end users would have some idea on how to use it. You don't get anything but a the "Lik-Sang coders cable" when you purchased that now did you? It did not include an RS-232 extension cable either.

This is not a commerical venture. But I'm not goning to sell these at a loss either :P I need to take care of a few details before I post an address for pre-orders. I need to find out how to handle international shipments and getting this device through customs without any hassles or large expenses. I don't think there will be much of a problem in the USA and UK though.

pboese
December 15th, 2004, 21:50
I've been searching the web for solutions to get this device into the hands of willing buyers. Frankly I'm not all that happy with all the negative stuff I hear about PayPal. The anti-paypal sites don't exist for no reason. I need to accept orders from almost anywhere in the world. With all this in mind I've found an online merchant store called CCNow.com (http://ccnow.com) that lets you sell stuff off of your website. They only deal with sellers that sell tangible products that can be shipped to the customer. They don't take pre-orders. They take 9% off the top, but they handle all of the transactions and credit checks needed to process the sale. I'm responsible for shipping the product.

So with this in mind I would have to invest the money to build at least 50 units to keep costs down. I can afford to do that, but I'd like a little feedback from potential customers to get a feeling for how many units I could sell in a month or so.

To that end I've created an email address that you can send a short note indicating your desire to purchase a USB Coders Cable when they become available. I have tentatively set that date to the January-February 2005 timeframe. That will give me time to order parts and build up the units. This is NOT a pre-order, just a survey to determine interest. Please don't spam the address with email's just to make me feel good. I want serious inquiries only. I don't want to end up with many $$$ worth of unwanted inventory :P

The price as stated before will be $49 USD plus shipping. Again this is not a pre-order. This is to gauge interest. The address is printed here not as a link, but as plain text with a [NO-SPAM] section that you will have to remove before sending. The address is:

Coders[NO-SPAM][email protected]
Please remove the [NO-SPAM] before sending. Hmmm, I see Yabb put a space after the dot (.) too. Blast it ;)

I will put all users who respond on a list and will keep them informed when the device is available, or if not enough people respond I will inform them that there will be no production. I will use a list processor or respond individually to the email's so no one will have anyone else's email address.

Thanks to everyone for their interest and encouragement to date.

Regards,

Paul Boese a.k.a. Axlen

----- 28 Feb 2005 -----
This offer is now closed - no new requests will be accepted unless one of the current first responders opts out.

Paul Boese, a.k.a. Axlen
----- 28 Feb 2005 -----

Kochise
December 16th, 2004, 02:54
First, thanks YOU very much for providing a new efficient way to develop on the OUTSTANDING DreamCast (a shame it died, **** the HYPE -Playstation 2 announcement - which killed the dream).

As I explained you, I plan to create a PCI card featuring almost everything surrounding the DreamCast (reset button, vga box, serial connector, USB connector, 240 MHz overclock, ...). So I don't need the PCB, yet I need parts.

As I want to thanks you for your job, I'd like to get the right parts from you with a little charge for your own benefit. Could you sell a plastic bag which would contain all the parts necessary, leaving me the job to solder them on my own PCB ? You could also sell it as a complete kit (including the PCB in the package), leaving the choice to the consumer to solder the parts on his own PCB or on the provided PCB (if the consumer's PCB has failed, he would have a working replacement PCB available).

Thanks for taking my idea into consideration, and again, THANKS YOU !

Kochise

pboese
December 17th, 2004, 22:30
....

As I explained you, I plan to create a PCI card featuring almost everything surrounding the DreamCast (reset button, vga box, serial connector, USB connector, 240 MHz overclock, ...). So I don't need the PCB, yet I need parts.

As I want to thanks you for your job, I'd like to get the right parts from you with a little charge for your own benefit. Could you sell a plastic bag which would contain all the parts necessary, leaving me the job to solder them on my own PCB ? You could also sell it as a complete kit (including the PCB in the package), leaving the choice to the consumer to solder the parts on his own PCB or on the provided PCB (if the consumer's PCB has failed, he would have a working replacement PCB available)....
Kochise

Kochise,

I don't have any spare parts at the moment, but I can post the BOM (Bill of Material) with some sources. If I am able to produce some units then I will order a few extra parts for kits.


QtyValuePackagePart IDSource

1LEDLED5MMLED1Mouser

10805FB1DigiKey 240 1035

40.1uf0805C2, C3, C8, C9Mouser

11k50805R9Mouser

12k20805R16Mouser

16.144MhzHC49USX1Mouser

110k0805R15Mouser

110nf0805C5Mouser

210uf3528 21RC1, C10Mouser

3270805R1, R6,R8Mouser

227pf0805C6, C7Mouser

133nf0805C4Mouser

174V1G00SSOT23 5IC4Mouser

193C46BSNSOIC 8IC5Mouser

41000805R3, R5, R10, R13Mouser

5100k0805R4, R7, R12, R14, R17Mouser

12201206R11Mouser

14700805R2Mouser

1FT232BMLQFP32 0.8mmIC1Parallax

1SN74CBTLV3125DSOIC 14IC3Mouser

1SP721ABSOIC 8IC2Mouser

1USB "B"PN61729SJ1Mouser

pboese
December 19th, 2004, 21:24
I have created a preliminary web-page for the USB Coders Cable (http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/usbcc.html). It contains a brief history, a short technical write-up, schematic and parts resources.

pboese
December 26th, 2004, 15:02
http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/USBCCTHUMB.png (http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/USBCC-F-SCH.png)

Updated schematic revision to "F": Changed resistor on RX2 line from pull-down to pull-up. Prevents spurious activiity on RX2 line when the USB bus is off-line (PC turned off or USB cable unplugged)

pboese
January 5th, 2005, 20:19
Discussions have been initiated with a potential
backer for producing the units under a brand name. I
cannot be anymore specific than that at this time.

Regards,

Paul Boese, a.k.a. Axlen

pboese
January 13th, 2005, 19:57
Greetings,

It has been about 1 month (15-Dec-2005) since I opened up the coderscable email address for interested parties to respond to. To date 10 individuals have expressed a desire to purchase a USB Coders Cable. Most of these emails arrived in the first two weeks.

So far the party who seemed interested in helping me produce the device has not contacted me since our initial discussions.

I have 7 (seven) rev D printed circuit boards from my prototype run that I have not built up at this time. I'm am seriously considering making these the first and only units available due to lack of demand.

Since I only get good raw part discounts starting around the 50+ quantity range I would have to charge a few dollars more per unit to make up the difference in cost. The shipping charges I have to pay to each part vendor is a major factor in the end unit cost.

Obviously If I can order hundreds is individual parts then the overall cost for shipping is spread out. For instance; a typical $50 part order at Digikey will usually have a shipping and handling charge of 10 to 15 dollars! That adds a lot to cost of building a unit. So the more parts I can purchase at one time the better.

Therefore I will wait about one more week to hear back from my potential business partner. If I get no response, then the first 7 respondents (Those who already responded) will get first dibs at the 7 yet to built units.

Regards,

Paul Boese a.k.a. Axlen

Alexvrb
January 13th, 2005, 22:51
Well, you put the plans up there, so people can build their own too.

semicolo
January 15th, 2005, 08:46
Do someone know about configuring dreamkey for using the serial port instead of the internal modem ?
We discussed that on a french irc channel yesterday, if it's possible to have internet sharing by this mean, it could boost the usb coders cable demand.

pboese
January 29th, 2005, 16:33
The cable uses surface mount parts which makes it
difficult for some folks to build themselves of
course. I have seriously considered making a batch of
fifty units, but the cost to do it is pretty steep
compared to the stuff of similar complexity in the
"consumer" market today.

I have seven bare REV D prototype boards that I don't
have parts for right now. These may end up being the
first and the last that I make available 'after I pay
down my creditcard a bit' ;) I spent over $1000 since
last August on parts and pcb board services. Most of
which I was able to pay for with cash from a one time
stock sale. It was a lot of fun though so I don't
regret spending the money.

I saw a group of amateur radio operators formed a coop
to design and build electronic equipment. They all
put their efforts and cash together to fund the
project to build them. No profit motive. I don't
know if I could get an effort like that going in the
dcdev community or not. I've already put alot of time
into this, but I've placed all the knowledge gained on
my website. The only thing I have not done it put up
the pcb layout. I'm not entirely happy with it. I
think I could re-lay out the board so the device fits
in the much smaller case.

Anyway that's what's going on. I'll build up the last
seven boards... eventually ;) I 'was' planning on
selling fully built/tested unit for $49 USD (50 unit
production qty), but my potential 'backer' seems to
have disappeared :(

Kochise
February 2nd, 2005, 17:02
nm :) France powaaaa... What's the steps ? Could not buy a package before April...

Kochise

Chaotis
February 5th, 2005, 20:43
I'm sure there are others interested out there and just don't know about it yet. Make sure you put posts on several of the dcdev sites and stuff. I will be ordering one if they're still available after I get a million other more important things done first. (gotta pay off college classes so they don't kick me out)

EDIT: I would like to join such a coop if one is started. Currently taking many elte and csis courses and hope I would be some help to such a group.

pboese
February 9th, 2005, 02:53
I've been dragging this on too long. Let's cut out the
profit and consider another way to get the cable into
your hands. The current calculated cost for parts to
build each unit sans shipping (vendor shipping charges
to me for raw parts) is between $25 to $30 USD. That
$5 difference is based on the actually number of parts
purchased; e.g. I get a better price for buying 100
resistors vs 50.

I was asking $49 USD for each unit originally to cover
development costs and to compensate me for the time
required to build up each unit. I considered this a
fair price to ask at the time.

Would you consider $30.00 USD plus shipping with
payment in advance via pay-pal. There have been 17
posts from interested parties to this mailbox. That
should be enough to at least start to get better bulk
prices for some of the parts. One of the interested
parties may also have cheap source for the DC serial
plug (VS Cables).

This message is to get your feedback. If you are serious
please reply. I'll send pay-pal info if enough of you
respond.

Email coderscable at sbcglobal dot net

Regards,

Paul Boese, a.k.a. Axlen.

----- 28 Feb 2005 -----
This offer is now closed - no new requests will be accepted unless one of the current first responders opts out.

Paul Boese, a.k.a. Axlen
----- 28 Feb 2005 -----

pboese
February 9th, 2005, 02:57
Well, you put the plans up there, so people can build their own too.

Quite true, but so far I have not heard of anyone doing so.

Kochise
February 14th, 2005, 10:30
nm.

Kochise

pboese
March 1st, 2005, 03:12
I need the help of the DC hardware community. I sent a USB Coders Cable to Propeller (of GP/DC FreeDev fame) for him to use. Unfortunately he has not been able to get it too work. Barring some sort of hardware problem I'm at a loss.

Does anyone know if there are any Serial Clock frequency differences between the PAL and NTSC Dreamcasts? That might explain the the problem if there is a difference.

pboese
March 5th, 2005, 02:37
This is a copy of a message I just sent to my list of interested buyers. Just an FYI to those who might build their own cable.

-----Start of message-----
I have found a problem with the current design. It appears that the USB interface does not operate reliably when attached to "some" computers. I believe the problem is caused by the choice of the master clock frequency. The FTDI FT232BM chip is designed to operate with a 6.000Mhz clock. To make the RS232 serial side work at the maximum baud of 1.56M baud for the DC I needed to change the clock to 6.144Mhz.

It works great on my old computer. My new computer does not detect the cable properly. I sent a cable to Propeller (of DCFreeDev fame) and he has not been able get it to work. I also sent a prototype to Dan Potter to test on a MAC. He was able to use the cable, but not at the maximum baud due to driver issues under OSX. Of the four computer involved the cable worked on only half of them to date. That's a 50/50 chance the cable will or won't work for any of you.

If I go back to the 6.000 Crystal the maximum serial speed that can be used is 500K Baud. Mind you that is better than the Lik-Sang coders cable which is limited to 115200 baud.

I think it may be possible to modify the pcb layout to add a second crystal and a jumper so the the master clock speed can be switched depending upon how finicky your PC's USB controller is. You would have to open the case and move the jumper manually. (with the cable not connected to anything of course, and you will use good anti-static handling procedures, won't you :)

Getting 1.56M baud out of your cable may still be possible if your USB ports choke on the USB Coders Cable. You can try adding a ISA/PCI USB add-on card. But don't ask me which ones "might" work ;)

Adding a second crystal and jumper will increase costs by a dollar or two. Your chances of being able to operate it at max baud is 50/50. But you would still have 500K as a fallback.

Send me your comments and let me know if you are still interested.

Paul Boese a.k.a Axlen
-----End of message-----

pboese
March 7th, 2005, 05:07
I do not like the "band-aid" solution to the USB
problem. It's is a poor solution to the problem.
Therefore I am going to redesign the USB Coders Cable.

The design goals this time a mostly the same with the
following addition. No surface mount components. Only
through hole parts will be used. This will make it
possible to "kit" the device so "You" will have the
option to build it yourself.

I am currently looking at using a MicroChip PIC
18Fxxxx series USB capable microprocessor. MicroChip
provides sample code to creating the USB-Serial type
solution. I like this PIC series chip because the USB
core and processor core can use seperate clock
sources. That means the USB side will be solid and I
can still get the device to talk to the Dreamcast at
1.56M baud.

This is all preliminary so if you have any ideas please post them here.

Regards,

Paul Boese. a.k.a Axlen

SiZiOUS
March 10th, 2005, 01:16
I am going to redesign the USB Coders Cable.
Take your time. When you succeed, please notify me. :)

Good luck. ;)

pboese
March 16th, 2005, 01:23
Don't worry, it seems that Yahoo sent your email to the Junk folder. Don't know why. Anyway, do i send the email to coderscable@etc?

And for the redesign, that means you are opening preorders again?

If I can get this into an EASY to build format without any surface mount components then I'd considers opening things up again. And of course the device has to work for more than me and a handfull of other users ;)

I've already ordered some PIC development tools and have a sample part in my hands already.

By the way, for those who might be interested I put up the CAD files for current USB Coders Cable: Rev-F Schematic and Layout. This does not include any crystal switching jumpers or sockets. So if you feel inclined to get your hands dirty with Eagle (http://www.cadsoft.de/) and improve the current design yourself; have at it. Just be sure to observe the GPL and copyright info in the ZIPed package: USBCC-F.ZIP (http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/hdw/USBCC-F.zip)

semicolo
March 16th, 2005, 06:08
Here's a hacked version with 2 crystals and jumpers to configure it : ftp://semicolo.kicks-ass.org/dreamcast/USBCC-Fbis.zip (online from about 14h to 4h GMT, sorry, my sister sleeps in my computer room and she doesn't like fan noise)

pboese
March 21st, 2005, 01:20
Here's a picture of the basic development setup for the USB coders cable redesign. No USB cable yet since I'm just testing the development environment and getting used to the IDE. These PIC chips are really neat to play with.

Sourcing all through-hole parts for this version has been going great so far. Just discovered Spark Fun Electronics (http://www.sparkfun.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cart=199103&cat=1&): a place that does prototype double sided PCB's with soldermask and silkscreen for $2.50 per square inch. As you might well have guessed I'll be making every effort to make this board as small as possible to keep costs to a minimum.

http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/PICTEST001.JPG

pboese
March 21st, 2005, 01:36
Here's a hacked version with 2 crystals and jumpers to configure it : ftp://semicolo.kicks-ass.org/dreamcast/USBCC-Fbis.zip (online from about 14h to 4h GMT, sorry, my sister sleeps in my computer room and she doesn't like fan noise)

Thanks for seeing to this semicolo; I won't be doing anymore work on this revision. I've learned my lesson with surface mount designs. They are great for commerical products, but they can be a real challenge for hobbyists. Some kit producers are soldering all the smt parts onto their boards because too many buyers were unable to do it properly.

The FTDI based design has been a great learning experience :) ...expensive, but fun... Onward!

GPF
March 21st, 2005, 21:29
just a quick question about the USB-Serial interface, I was looking at existing USB/Serial adaptors and saw one on outpost http://shop4.outpost.com/product/3811787 that states that it Support over 1 Mbps data transfer rate. Would something like this hooked up to a standard coders cable and your software changes to dc-tool-serial enable it to reach that speed .

Thanks,
Troy

pboese
March 22nd, 2005, 03:05
just a quick question about the USB-Serial interface, I was looking at existing USB/Serial adaptors and saw one on outpost http://shop4.outpost.com/product/3811787 that states that it Support over 1 Mbps data transfer rate. Would something like this hooked up to a standard coders cable and your software changes to dc-tool-serial enable it to reach that speed .

Thanks,
Troy

Your basic USB-Serial cable typically uses a single clock source to drive the USB module, cpu and serial USART. Depending on the USB version, 1.1, 2.0, the speeds the cable supports, the USB portion of the circuit will operate at some multiple of the applied clock frequency, typically 4Mhz or 6Mhz by using a PLL (phased locked look) to generate a 48Mhz internal clock (USB 2.0). The Dreamcast scif ports are driven by a 50Mhz clock. The problem is that the baud generators for each device (USB-Serial cable / Dreamcast) when programmed for 1.56M baud will not be within +-3% of each other and will not be able to communicate. The key here is the difference in actual serial speeds between the two devices beacause they operate at different clock speeds. It might work at 500K baud though depending on the drivers for your USB-Serial cable. Some drivers will limit you to 480K baud.

I tried to fudge this with the previous design by using a 6.144Mhz crystal where a 6.000Mhz is called for, and it worked okay with my PC hardware. It was a compromise that looked promising, but the more systems I was able to test it on revealed that is was not a realiable solution,

The new design uses two seperate clocks. One for the USB module running at 4.000Mhz externally and 48Mhz internallly, and a second 25Mhz clock source to drive the CPU and serial hardware. That way I can keep the USB side of the equation in spec and still be able to talk to the Dreamcast at 1.56M baud.

Aside from the baud issues you will still have to translate the RS232 signals from the USB-Serial cable to the Dreamcasts 3v TTL levels either by hacking the USB-Serial cable or adding additional circuitry to translate the signal levels.

That said, you might be able to get the USB-Serial cable to work but it will take some experimentation. Try it and let us all know how it goes. Maybe you will find a cheaper way to accomplish the goal.

GPF
March 22nd, 2005, 17:04
thanks for information. Just more currious about that cable. Its been awhile since i look at usb/serial adaptor last time i looked the cheap one were only up to 115kb, so i was surprised to see one that said it supported over 1 Mbps :)

I actually got a Broadband adaptor yesterday, so good luck with your new design, I look forward to reading about it.

Troy

pboese
March 30th, 2005, 04:43
Quick update: I can't get this PIC chip to operate as I originally envisioned with dual clocks. It can do it, but only for low power, low frequency modes. So the maximum baud I've been able to calculate that will be common to both the DC and this USB-Serial device is 781249 and 800000 respectively. That's 2.4% baud error, but acceptable. So not as speedy as I had originally hoped, but not bad either. I'll be building up a prototype for actual tests over the next week or so. The hardware is pretty simple, but the software/firmware for the PIC will take a little while to get working properly.

The code is based on the Microhip USB CDC demo/tutorial so it will look like a serial/modem type of device to Windows 2K/XP, and Linux kernel 2.6+. Not sure about OS/X.

If this works it will probably be sold as a hobbyist type of kit since it will be using Microchip's USB VID/PID for their CDC demo. I intend to install the bootloader into the PIC so the device will be field upgradeable (firmware wise) via the USB port.; e.g. a real software hackers playtoy! All the development tools (IDE, assembler, C compiler, etc.) are available from Microchip online for free!

pboese
April 2nd, 2005, 03:46
I don't like not being able to run the connection speed at 1.56M baud, therefore I have decided to add an external USART in the form of a second PIC microcontroller. Communications between the two PICs will be via the Serial Peripheral Interface (SPI). It keeps the interface between the chips simple (3 lines) and gives me the oppourtunity to customize the operation of the device to this application. So now the two main parts are the PIC18F2550 (4Mhz Xtal/48Mhz Pll)which handles the USB interface and the PIC18F252 (25Mhz Xtal) which will be programmed to serve as a serial USART.

A sample part is on its way from Microchip.

kgenthe
April 6th, 2005, 02:20
What/where is "MKE" WI? I'm from Green Bay :)

pboese
April 7th, 2005, 03:58
What/where is "MKE" WI? I'm from Green Bay :)

MKE is an abbreviation for Milwaukee that I've seen used by the postal, shipping and airline industries. It's short but sweet, no?

pboese
April 7th, 2005, 04:12
I've had an interesting thought. It's about using the Maple bus, that's the gameport connectors on the front of the DC instead of the serial port. Right now it's just an idea, but I'm looking at the technical issues to see if there would be any advantage. The Maple bus runs at 2M bps, that's bits per second, but the bandwidth is shared by all the connected devices. That means that the overall throughput would be less than 2M bps. I base that statment on other considerations like protocol overhead and the fact that the Maple bus communications are totally host initiated and half duplex. It's similar to USB protocols in many ways. I'll probably try to rig up a fixture to snoop on the Maple bus transactions on one of the ports for the fun of it.

BTW I just received the 2nd PIC today, so I can begin some PIC to PIC comm experiments. I also tried connecting the prototype device to a Linux machine to see if it would work. So far no luck. I need to review the Linux cdc-acm driver code to find out what's going on.

Kochise
April 7th, 2005, 09:33
http://www.beyondlogic.org/usb/ftdi.htm : RS422/485 to 2000Kbps !

Sounds interresting ? Maybe a chip member of the same family should overshoot this one ?

Kochise

kgenthe
April 7th, 2005, 23:34
Kind of figured Milwaukee... oh well, Wisconsin, represent!

pboese
April 8th, 2005, 01:58
http://www.beyondlogic.org/usb/ftdi.htm : RS422/485 to 2000Kbps !

Sounds interresting ? Maybe a chip member of the same family should overshoot this one ?

Kochise

Ack! That page is really old, I used a FT232BM in the previous design. Nice chip really, but not ideal for this application; thus I'm back to the drawing board :)

I really despise beyondlogic, those pages drop "pop-unders" with Firefox no-less! Damn advertisements.

Kochise
April 8th, 2005, 10:19
Don't see none of them, using Opera in F12 -> 'Block unwanted pop-up' setting :)

Kochise

pboese
April 9th, 2005, 04:16
Don't see none of them, using Opera in F12 -> 'Block unwanted pop-up' setting :)

Kochise

:) I tried Opera Once about two years ago. Maybe I'll give it another shot. :)

SiZiOUS
May 2nd, 2005, 01:15
Hey Axlen, what's about your project ?

I'm still waiting for it ;)

pboese
May 13th, 2005, 04:40
Spent most of my time recently updating the Linux distro I'm using; Partly because I wanted to update my kernel so I could get the USB debug stuff working. Of course when you run Gentoo updating stuff sometimes breaks things :P

That's where I'm at. My system is updated now so now I can look into why the PIC/USB chip framework works okay with Windows, but acts weird under Linux. Thus the need to debug the USB stuff under Linux. Too much to do, so little time...

pboese
June 7th, 2005, 03:04
I've decided to stop all coders cable development. No excuses, no explanation. Period.

Cap'n 1time
June 7th, 2005, 03:08
I've decided to stop all coders cable development. No excuses, no explanation. Period.

well... that sucks.

SiZiOUS
June 8th, 2005, 00:35
Very sad news... :/

ptr.exe
June 8th, 2005, 15:16
well it's your choice... bad news though.

Darksaviour69
June 8th, 2005, 15:29
i think there was not enought demand for it... shame

Masta-G
June 20th, 2005, 16:04
yeah... too bad. I was really waiting for you to finnish it so I could buy one. I'll try to find someone to build the old model so I can mess around with linux...

Kochise
June 25th, 2005, 11:39
Is that because I sent you nothing right now ? I was waiting for the next develpoment as you started to go using PIC :/ Anyway, thanks for your work so far !

Kochise

bender
July 29th, 2005, 04:50
sorry for bumping this thread again, just my computer does not have serial port (laptops usually don't :( ). I have a coders cable, has anyone attemped to use it with a serial -> usb adaptor? I know it would be slow but i will have the chance to hook it on my computer.
The linux kernel has a driver for this kind of adaptors so i presume that it should work

Another thing, the software side for the DC/PC should be customized, right?
cheers

ptr.exe
July 29th, 2005, 12:27
I'm fairly sure that's been covered somewhere, it might of been Kamjin, he tried using one of those as his brothers laptop didnt have a serial port either, didnt work at all, wasnt slow just didnt work.

search the forum, you may find something useful. failing that search here (http://www.dcemulation.com/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=31) it may have been covered there.

bender
July 29th, 2005, 21:37
thnks. I think that didin't work because it would be needed to modify the pc tools for the usb port and the adapter also the dreamcast side of them, i think. The driver it's already in the kernel
This is the only thing from kamjin i've found http://www.dcemulation.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=44964&highlight=usb


I don't know why most laptops does not come with the serial port, i have tonts of connectors that i don't need but not an standar rs-232 one .
I have found a pcmcia card that gives a serial port to the laptop. Its a hardware that will work with the coders cable but it cost about 100€.
The BBA seems a better choice ;-)

ptr.exe
July 30th, 2005, 13:48
Yeah, for 100€ you may as well get a BBA as its near enough the same price and is much faster.

Unless you want the serial for other stuff.

semicolo
August 3rd, 2005, 18:29
I don't think you need to alter the tools, just use dc-tool with the right device /dev/usbttyxx or whatever.

Keebler64
July 9th, 2006, 01:47
Yeah, I know its a year and a half old, but I'd thought I'd ask if anyone got around to actually producing anymore of these. I've recently taken up a new found interest in my Dreamcast and would like to try to develop some things for it. I can't afford a BBA, and would prefer not being stuck at 115K transfer.

semicolo
July 13th, 2006, 20:41
axlen stopped developping the usb cable, if you know something about electronic you can build it yourself since the plans are available.

3yE
August 19th, 2006, 16:06
It might be even better to build an ethernet interface like that from bITmASTER. The normal coder's cable is 14 K/s, axlen's is 60 K/s, bITmASTERs ethernet interface is almost 200 K/s.

There is no need to modify PC-side software, but there is need to modify drivers in KallistiOS and the Dreamcast-side downloader. Should be in fact not too hard, since it is supported in NetBSD and the G2 code looks similar.

Now please follow to http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2518&page=7
since i need your help there.