View Full Version : Dreamcast Hard Drive
wraggster
January 10th, 2005, 12:34
I have at home one of those USB hard drives and was wondering if like the recent Axlen project, there could be a way of first connecting to the hard drive using axlens new cable and also if possible using the said drive as a proper hard drive for the dreamcast where we could somehow have a dreamcast virtual memory.
Is that even remotely possible?
MetaFox
January 10th, 2005, 12:36
Not through Axlen's cable.
But Dan Potter is/was working on a USB project for such things.
I'm not sure if he's still working on it, as he's bored with the dreamcast right now.
pboese
January 10th, 2005, 19:17
I've given this subject some thought recently. The DC parallel port is not the way to go. Rather, the maple bus would appear better suited. I've spent some time reading the M Bus patent and I believe it could be used to attach a wide variety of mass storage devices. The basic idea is to create a hardware/software interface box that has USB ports on one side and a Maple-Bus (game port) connector on the other end.
The Maple Bus data transfer speed appears to be around 2 megabits per second.
I imagine the box could also be setup to allow attaching USB-Ethernet and wireless devices too.
The basic idea is this:
|DC game port|<----cable----|Magic Box - 2-4 USB Ports|<------>Jump Drive; Ethernet; Harddrive; ...
The Magic Box would consist of the Maple Bus interface hardware, CPU/Ram-Flash/IO and an embedded version of FreeBSD or Linux.
For development I suspect and interface circuit for the Maple Bus and PC could be used.
It's really a bit more complicated than this, but you get the idea.
RockGod
January 10th, 2005, 20:11
wow, something must be going around because I was discussing this very thing the other day with some classmates in college. (no, not the technical part) The idea of a hard drive for the DC is intriguing. I say we've got to try it. who's to say it can't be done. let's show the community the genius behind the coders who accomplish it and the video game world that this is THE machine. Dreamcast: the father of XBOX, PS 2, and the GC. they are all off-shoots of what the dreamcast is and was. especially Microsoft and they know it.
DreamDogg
January 11th, 2005, 00:51
A Dreamcast interfaced to a USB PenDrive, is a very revolutionary idea!
Then, using a specialized boot disc, to boot the Dreamcast off the pendrive!
KallistiOS...DOS...SH-Linux...NetBSD...or, whatever!
Dreamcasters could distribute and run software without any need to burn discs! Such a product would induce more coders to jump on the DC scene, no doubt!
;D
Mental2k
January 11th, 2005, 17:05
But what would I do with the spindles of discs I bought to burn the various versions of every emu on DC, /me considers burning bootleg discs and selling them on ebay. ;)
Alexvrb
January 21st, 2005, 17:57
2 megabits is really slow. Yucky.
DreamDogg
January 21st, 2005, 23:31
Yes, 2 megabits is limiting. I remember booting my 286 PC from a 360k floppy drive. I wonder how that would compare to booting from a maple-connected device.
pboese
January 23rd, 2005, 09:05
Yes, 2 megabits is limiting. I remember booting my 286 PC from a 360k floppy drive. I wonder how that would compare to booting from a maple-connected device.
Yeah, it would pretty much be a toy to tinker with. The speed is not really suitable for a USB harddrive. As an interface for flash devices it might be okay. So the parallel port would be a better choice, though much more difficult to deal with.
It would be painfully slow I'm sure.
DreamDogg
June 29th, 2005, 08:05
Sounds like the Maple bus is the best method for interfacing the Dreamcast to more data.
With so many competing memory storage formats (USB-Pendrives, SD-Cards, CompactFlash cards, Mini-SD and Memory-Stick cards) on the market now, the possibilities are vast.
Consdering all of these competing memory storage formats, which type would be the easiest to interface to the Maple Bus ?
Morph
June 29th, 2005, 13:37
Man, for the expansion slot NOT being the way to go, that 50mb/s looks very tempting. But I suppose a Maple Bus extension would be easier to code.
DreamDogg
July 3rd, 2005, 06:22
A DC Maple Hard drive would be a whole new peripheral. I wonder, would such a device need its own firmware to identify itself on the Maple Bus ?
I was running Dreamcast Linux yesterday, which also accesses the maple bus....
Unfortunately, the DC-Linux project is inactive.
The NetBSD/Dreamcast group, however, is still active (and working on the next version.) Maybe they would have some ideas/input on the technical requirements of creating such a peripheral.
Morph
July 3rd, 2005, 21:07
I think that what could be considered a VERY usefull Maple Bus device would be a maple bus NIC. It'd get decent speeds, and would out-perform a Serial NIC as I have heard others suggest.
All in all, a hard drive would be wonderful, but with a NIC, you can just stream from a PC as if it were a hard drive.
DreamDogg
July 4th, 2005, 03:42
For a DC Maple Ethernet interface,
Maybe this XPORT can do the job:
http://www.gridconnect.com/xports.html
The XPORT features a serial/ethernet bridge, even a built-in webserver. Cool!
For WiFi, there is also a WIPORT:
http://www.gridconnect.com/wiports.html
Developing a new peripheral would require alot of talent from the DC Scene.
Perhaps a cooperative partnership between the DC Scene's hardware-experts, software-experts and Marketing-experts.
Cast128dreams
July 4th, 2005, 13:04
This would be very hard but so cool.
Hard drive will be amzing but just thing of an upgrading system that would clip under.Dreamcast has four small clips under it.
Or just thing of a DVD rom.
Everything would be easier for porting because of the memory space.
Then a new homebrew world will rise for the DC.
DreamDogg
July 4th, 2005, 22:58
This is starting to sound like a connectivity peripheral.
I think anything is possible when there is enough talent, will, and economic incentive.
I ask the DC Community:
*How much market demand for a new Dreamcast connectivity peripheral ?
----Connect the old dinosaur Dreamcast to their home-network/internet
--------For fun, or nostalgia
------------Play MP3s off the net
-----------------Simplify homebrew; Execute games from network-attached drives (no disc-burning required.)
*Which connectivity format desired (Ethernet/WiFi/Bluetooth/USB/Ultrawideband) ?
----WIFI will remain the most ubiquitous wireless-personal-networking standard for 2005/2006.
-------However, by 2007, *Ultrawideband* will start to replace Wifi in many types of home applications.
------------Currently, Ethernet chips are the cheapest, and most cost-effective.
Finally,
*Can a new DC Connectivity Peripheral be marketed economically and profitably ?
--Price for Chips
----Fabrication Costs
-------Distribution Costs
----------Profitable ? Or Money Pit ?
semicolo
July 5th, 2005, 20:33
The Xport is interessant, but il couldn't be used for dremcast, becaus there's no maple xport (and there certainly won't be any) and the serial rate is too different from the dremcast's to be really effective (one could maybe have rates around 300kbps working but not more)
Morph
July 5th, 2005, 23:18
no, the serial port on the DC has speeds up to 1.5mb/s. Those are the maximum speeds that have been achieved via the serial-to-USB coders cable. And 1.5mb/s is PLENTY of speed, even for homebrew online games.
And I was just thinking. The maple bus, is it 2mb/s per PORT? or 2mb/s TOTAL over the whole port system? If its over the whole port system, then any kind of bandwidth hungry device would render then entire controller/keyboard/vmu/mouse system immaculate, since you would have no bandwidth left for standard Dreamcast periphrials. Once again, a NIC would be far more feasable, and far more usefull than a hard drive.
Think about it, homebrew online, streaming storage/media, coding, and interconnectivity versus just streaming storage/media.
DreamDogg
July 6th, 2005, 00:37
I think the Dreamcast Serial interace uses 3.3v signals, right?
Those signals must be elevated to 12v to work with conventional serial devices.
I see that Marcus Comstedt's Serial Adaptor does the voltage-elevation needed:
http://mc.pp.se/dc/serifc.html
The resultant 12v signals should be acceptable to the XPort:
http://www.gridconnect.com/xports.html
DreamDogg
July 6th, 2005, 01:11
Turns out the voltage elevation is not necessary
According to the XPort's datasheet,
http://site.gridconnect.com/docs/PDF/xport.pdf
The XPort accepts 3.3V signals.
So the Dreamcast's native 3.3v serial IO signals should be fine.
Cast128dreams
July 6th, 2005, 11:14
New Peripherials for the Dreamcast will enpower it for sure.
But just think......If a third party company has made Treamcast(which sell very good) everything is possible!!!!
So why not!!!?
semicolo
July 6th, 2005, 15:31
I know the dreamcast can go up to 1,5625 Mbps (see my dcxfer card :-) but you must have maching bitrates, the dreamcast can't do 900 kbps like the xport, the higher common rate beetween the two should be 300kbps.
DreamDogg
July 6th, 2005, 23:02
Dreamcast XPort Ethernet Inteface
(Potential New Peripheral)
Plugs into Dreamcast's Serial IO Port
300 kbps bitrate
Costs ~$65 in parts to build
Cheaper than BBA
Faster than the DC dialup modem
Requires new software to operate (incompatible with existing titles)
Worthwhile Project ? Let's hear people's comments.
Nikosbuddy
August 27th, 2005, 17:14
so did anyone actually go thru with this? cause i wouldlove to do mine but i am far dumber then you guys will ever be, i tried reading all this and i was lost but i had a grin knowing....someone had tried...
or thought about trying...let me know whats up guys :P
DreamDogg
August 29th, 2005, 00:42
I don't know of anyone doing it. Nevertheless, it remains possible.
Genius engineers do contribute to these forums, and their past projects did result in marketable products (for example, the USB-serial coders cable.)
Homebrew peripherals are cool, and perhaps marketable, but the most important test is profitability.
I am optimistic that chip prices will fall in the next 12 months.
Lower chip prices may allow new storage/connectivity peripheral development for the Dreamcast.
FrierTuck
February 11th, 2006, 01:03
you know what we could do, hold a sega enginerr hostage, and make him design a new DC with a HDD, Ethernet, USB, 802.11b/g, Bluetooth, Coffee Maker, Clock/Radio, DVD drive, Credit card scanner, 4 diffrent types of screw drivers, knives, a leather bore, all on a seasame seed bun
*200th Post*
sixtyten
February 22nd, 2006, 00:56
you know what we could do, hold a sega enginerr hostage, and make him design a new DC with a HDD, Ethernet, USB, 802.11b/g, Bluetooth, Coffee Maker, Clock/Radio, DVD drive, Credit card scanner, 4 diffrent types of screw drivers, knives, a leather bore, all on a seasame seed bun
*200th Post*
I'd go for that.
Erghize
March 14th, 2006, 00:04
Has anyone considered the IDE Bus used for the GD-ROM?
I don't know if it's possible to easily connect and use two devices on the same bus with a dreamcast (without much modification)...but it's an IDE bus...seems more logical to me to use that for adding a hard drive.
I havn't a clue though if the DC BIOS would support this or if it even matters about the BIOS.
semicolo
March 14th, 2006, 00:17
I don't thing it's an ide interface, sorry, would've been too easy.
Erghize
March 14th, 2006, 01:09
Yeah, you could well be right. My only basis on it being an IDE Bus is the fact that I saw a schematic with that written on.
I'm sure I did.
Either that or i'm loosing it =\
Cast128dreams
March 17th, 2006, 16:47
So do we have any news from that?
semicolo
March 17th, 2006, 17:59
well the oti chip used in some gdroms have an ide interface, the chips used in my gdrom is a toshiba without it. So I can't follow the lines to see if the ide bus is connected to the dreamcast or to a sega interface chip.
If someone's go a logic analyzer and is willing to reverse engineer the interface protocol, it could lead to homebrewn cdrom interfaces.
We're stuck there for now.
Cast128dreams
March 17th, 2006, 20:48
ok but please if you have any news post without second thinking....
Its burning thread
Elven6
September 16th, 2006, 16:55
Has their been any progress?
ßüboni¢ $oñic
September 16th, 2006, 23:16
i think ir would be best if we organized this line between financial providers, technical providers, and hardware donators. I would be a part of the former. I wondered if a super VMU would be possible to give an added boost of memory.
quzar
September 16th, 2006, 23:18
not gonna happen.
kohan69
October 29th, 2006, 03:19
And I was just thinking. The maple bus, is it 2mb/s per PORT? or 2mb/s TOTAL over the whole port system? If its over the whole port system, then any kind of bandwidth hungry device would render then entire controller/keyboard/vmu/mouse system immaculate, since you would have no bandwidth left for standard Dreamcast periphrials.
Exactly my concern.
Also, doesn't the bios have a direct i/o with the maple bus (game ports) ?
If a commercial game is ran, it would try to scan the peripherals connected and get confused when it stumbles on a maple-to-usb thumbdrive.
Definitely a boot-program would be needed.
A more realistic though is to program homebrew to utilize a blank memory card in an unused controller as extra ram, sort of like paging.
(ie, you're playin a 2 player game, but ports 2 and 3 have controllers with empty memory cards, and the homebrew uses the memory cards to buffer whatevers)
:)
BrooksyX
October 30th, 2006, 00:03
I don't really know anything about hardware but here is my Idea. Would it be possible to mod a VMU to attach to a hard drive, then have a boot disc that tells the Dreamcast to read the hard drive, allowing you to be able to load homebrew and backups. Just my idea, doubt its any good though.
kohan69
October 30th, 2006, 08:19
BigMace- That's exactly what the last posts were about using the maple bus (controller port) for the hard drive.
You can boot homebrew from the VMU, but you are limited to 128kb.
Theoretically one could replace the vmu memory with a 1gb flashram, and boot games off there, but it's too much of a computability issue, not to mention bus limit (amount of information you can send at a single time).
Good thinking though ;)
BrooksyX
October 30th, 2006, 15:54
lol, as I said I dont know much about DC hardware. I just wish there was someway for a dc to be able to use a harddrive. If it could I would play it alot more because I always have trouble with burnt discs, mostly because I only have the cheap kind where I live though.
Darksaviour69
October 30th, 2006, 16:03
you could use a lan cable to send homebrew over it (like a bba only a lot cheaper)
kohan69
October 30th, 2006, 22:21
you could use a lan cable to send homebrew over it (like a bba only a lot cheaper)
Are you referring ot the Lan adapter? that goes into the modem slot
Darksaviour69
October 31st, 2006, 01:14
yeah
Morph
November 9th, 2006, 07:12
So is anyone going to try making a Serial NIC? I will willing to contribute parts/money to such a project. I am not mechanically inclined to THAT degree, but would be willing to fund someone else to do it.
Elven6
November 11th, 2006, 00:50
So that means this will only be availble to users who have a Network adapter correct? Unless they find use for the maple port.
henzenmann
November 14th, 2006, 01:57
I've started reading the M-BUS patent (http://boob.co.uk/docs/MaplePatent.pdf) and as far as I understand it, while the BUS transfer rate is 2MBit/s the maximum transfer rate that could be achieved by a device connected to the BUS is 60KByte/s (one transfer of 1020 bytes per V-Blank, ie 50KB/s on a PAL system).
Also a "Super VMU" would not seem to be possible, because the maximum number of blocks seems to be limited by the BUS protocol (<256).
One could somehow attach a larger storage device to the BUS, but it would not work with any commercial/exisiting homebrew software, and a lot of people would have to have such a device in order to make it worthwile for homebrew developers to support it.
Any device connecting to the M-BUS will be rather complicated to build, compared to the existing serial port interfaces, or even the extension port interfaces by bitmaster and chaos/jj1odm (G2 BUS). A CPLD and a microcontroller would be needed to properly implement the M-BUS protocol.
Now on the other hand, if someone designed and manufactured a working device it would be very easy to connect. Just cut a game pad cable in half and solder it's five wires to a connector (one could even plug the game pad cable back together to make it work again).
This part would be a lot easier than with the serial port (cables/connectors are becomming rare, alternative is soldering 10 wires directly to the DC motherboard), and a hell of a lot easier than with the extension port, where one has do butcher the modem, like semicolo and chaos/jj1odm did (http://semicolo.free.fr/Dreamcast/tutorial.html).
It is really a shame with these proprietary connectors. Chaos/jj1odm already built an USB host controller for the extension port (http://f17.aaa.livedoor.jp/~takotako/#dcmouse2), which could become a HUGE thing for the DC homebrew scene, if only it could be easily reproduced... :-/
picouser
December 5th, 2006, 06:09
http://f17.aaa.livedoor.jp/~takotako/g2bus.php
Can the BBA clone be made?
ßüboni¢ $oñic
December 22nd, 2006, 08:55
http://f17.aaa.livedoor.jp/~takotako/g2bus.php
Can the BBA clone be made?
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://f17.aaa.livedoor.jp/~takotako/index.php&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://f17.aaa.livedoor.jp/~takotako/index.php%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG
here. im not sure too much what to make of that site but that should help everyone understand it's text. now try reading it thru that link.
henzenmann
December 23rd, 2006, 14:42
http://f17.aaa.livedoor.jp/~takotako/g2bus.php
Can the BBA clone be made?
I guess that is what jj1odm is trying to find out at the moment :)
Morph
January 18th, 2007, 04:44
Ok, thats what I was talking about. Most people do not want to:
A) Sacrifice a modem, or have the skills to do it correctly without turning it into a 4 ounce piece of junk
B) Have the technical skills or soldering complexity to take advantage of the expansion port
Unlike this "G2" bus, the Dreamcast's serial bus is the SAME as the PC serial bus except for different operating frequencies and voltages. The expansion port, to take advantage of it, would require recidulous amounts of time and labor put into it, which would make it not worth it. A PC/DC serial adaptior with correct drivers (heres looking at you, kalistiOS), would not only be easiest, buit would still be worth it.
Ok, so it's not 50MB/s, but thats rediculously uneeded anyways.
semicolo
January 19th, 2007, 19:08
well there's already a working homebrewn 1,5Mbps Usb to serial adapter, with an external clock it probably can be pushed a bit further.
Anyway it means there only lacks for a serial ip stack (slip ?)
Morph
January 21st, 2007, 17:42
Yes, and an actual ethernet RJ45 would help. But we discussed this earlier.
Ares2029
February 28th, 2007, 14:23
Just while I was reading through
it crossed my mind that the Dreamcast Dev unit found here:-
http://assembler.roarvgm.com/Dreamcast_Developer_Unit/dreamcast_developer_unit.html
it has a Hdd.
Does anyone have one?
Maybe the mainboard of the dev unit could be compare to the dreamcast mainboard and some real answers could be issued.
Like what file system does it use i.e. FAT, FAT32,NTFS ,FATDC/NTDC----LOL.
Also I have an official copy of the Dev unit OS this could be used to install and run apps games as well as develope.
Regards & Good Luck
Morph
February 28th, 2007, 19:46
It has a HDD because it is a dev unit. I believe they installed Windows 98 on it, and cross developed over to the internal DC dev board. It's basically a PC/DC hybrid, and wouldn't help.
quzar
February 28th, 2007, 20:11
That's not the way it works. The Dev unit connects to the PC via SCSI and appears as two devices: the debug adapter and the hard drive. The debug adapter allows you to interface a debugger to the Dreamcast and watch code as any debugger does (you can insert breakpoints, look at memory addresses, etc). The hard drive allows you to transfer over game images made with a special program. Another program allows you to switch between hard drive and GD-Rom mode. In hard drive mode, the dev unit reads from the hard drive, in GD-Rom mode " ".
Morph
March 2nd, 2007, 06:46
Thats what I meant, sorry. I was tired and didn't feel like trying for 6 hours.
phisejr
June 14th, 2007, 17:10
if im not mistaken, the Dreamcast does have internal memory 16 MB, thats how the dreamcast saved settings for the Web Browser, if there is a way that we could access that and make it larger and accessible then we'll have the Dreamcast Hard drive we always wanted.
quzar
June 14th, 2007, 22:07
if im not mistaken, the Dreamcast does have internal memory 16 MB, thats how the dreamcast saved settings for the Web Browser, if there is a way that we could access that and make it larger and accessible then we'll have the Dreamcast Hard drive we always wanted.
You are mistaken. Confusing ram and flash memory.
Dull Blade
June 14th, 2007, 22:11
Your thinking of the DC's RAM (RAndom access memory) that only for playing games. The GD-rom loads data onto that memory and lator processes it in the processor, every time you turn off your DC, the ram is wiped or erased and left clean for the next game you put in. So its more or less just temporary storage, replace your ram with a HDD and your DC wont run or if some how you managed to get it to run, it would be like 1000x slower.
EDIt: looks like quzar got to the anwser B4 i did.
phisejr
June 16th, 2007, 06:36
Lol well if the dreamcast has only temporary memory, then hmm what about making a faster DC instead replacing the RAM ?
or maybe you can use the VMU 128 kb of memory into more then it'll be a HDD or am i mistaken again ?
Dull Blade
June 16th, 2007, 21:40
you can make it faster. You can overclock it, it boost the speed from 200mhz to somethink like 233mhz. but to do thant you need find some chip, and I've looked but never found. As for VMU HDD, some one might be able to do that, but I'm not sure how fast the DC can read or write to a vmu. It might end up being dreadfully slow.
Abobora
August 23rd, 2007, 00:30
So, any news on this? I've been thinking about it, and if we could connect an flash card, or Hdd, it would be awesome for my Portable DC project.
reliantkcar
September 5th, 2007, 21:09
ok i've looked all over the internet and alli found was this picture bu don't click on it the sites dead
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=dreamcastopen&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8
Morph
September 27th, 2007, 22:59
you can make it faster. You can overclock it, it boost the speed from 200mhz to somethink like 233mhz. but to do thant you need find some chip, and I've looked but never found. As for VMU HDD, some one might be able to do that, but I'm not sure how fast the DC can read or write to a vmu. It might end up being dreadfully slow.
The 'chip' you are referring to is a crystal oscillator. The speed of the oscillator determines how fast you are clocking your Dreamcast. I've done the mod several times, and doing do is well documented both here and at dcemulation.
When you are overclocking the DC, you are boosting the entire speed of the system, not just the CPU and GPU. For instance, using a 45MHz crystal oscillator would be multiplied by 3 over the entire bus, giving a rough 133MHz~ FSB speed (a boost of 33%). So, your entire Dreamcast is now moving 33% faster, not just the CPU and GPU. Just to demonstrate, the the maximum data the memory on the DC can push at 100MHz is 800MB/s. Running it at 133MHz produces an increased bandwidth limit to 1024MB/s (effectivly 1GB/s).
DreamDogg
January 9th, 2008, 12:17
If someone's got a logic analyzer and is willing to reverse engineer the interface protocol, it could lead to homebrewn cdrom interfaces.
Logic Analyzers run ~$300 and up on eBay. The Intronix LogicPort analyzes 34 channels for $389
http://www.pctestinstruments.com/
Is there a cheaper way to analyze the signals, and does anyone here have the skills ?
DreamDogg
February 25th, 2008, 04:49
Lower-cost Logic Analyzer for $169.50...
http://www.hobbylab.us/
It's USB based and comes with a 2-channel oscilloscope, too!
Anyone else interested in exploring the Dreamcast's GD-ROM bus ?
MrSporty
April 3rd, 2008, 17:41
I have hooked up my own LA (A ZLGLogic 32 chan) to a GDROM drive and have plenty of data regarding the commands , data and transfer types.
One of the main things holding up my progress is an undocumented set of commands, packets commands 0x70 and 0x71.
I have a suspicion of what the commands are but ANY further info would be greatly appreciated.
quzar
April 3rd, 2008, 18:26
There's a chance it could be Seek. The GDRom SPI command system in part implements ATA specifications/commands. ATA-1 has 7xh as an undefined 'seek' command. ATA-2 clearly defines 70h as seek. 1Bh is defined in the SPI as Seek, but some of the other commands have redundancies.
Nathan Keynes, the author of lxdream, thinks that 70h is the spinup command, but is not sure, and knows that 71h is common, but does not know what it does.
Hope that helps.
MrSporty
April 3rd, 2008, 22:34
My suspicion is that the 70/71 pair relate to the security ring present on pressed GDROM's.
The 70 is likely a "Seek to and Read Ring" command.
The 71 then responds with a variable length response which as N.K pointed out , appears as random data. From my logs , altho the length is variable it doesn't seem to change from between 1900-2040 bytes.
My assumption is that the data is a scrambled representation of the security ring data with the length dictating the scrambling seed or method.
I asked drkIIRaziel (NullDC) and he greatfully modded his emu to return random data instead of the fixed block that most DC emus are returning for the 71 command and he reported that it caused random errors when trying to boot images. Some would boot , some would appear to boot then reboot and some would just fail entirely.
This wasn't exactly as i imagined because if the 71 response was solely protection related then you would expect a fake reply to fail all the time.
ExcruciationX
April 3rd, 2008, 22:54
Hmm, it would be awesome to have a hard drive on Dreamcast.
123killa
April 4th, 2008, 18:56
CAN SOME 1 ME FIND A WEBSITE THAT LETS U DOWNLOAD A DC FLASH PLZZZZ HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::m ad::mad:
DreamDogg
April 8th, 2008, 03:04
My suspicion is that the 70/71 pair relate to the security ring present on pressed GDROM's.
The 70 is likely a "Seek to and Read Ring" command.
The 71 then responds with a variable length response which as N.K pointed out , appears as random data. From my logs , altho the length is variable it doesn't seem to change from between 1900-2040 bytes.
My assumption is that the data is a scrambled representation of the security ring data with the length dictating the scrambling seed or method.
I asked drkIIRaziel (NullDC) and he greatfully modded his emu to return random data instead of the fixed block that most DC emus are returning for the 71 command and he reported that it caused random errors when trying to boot images. Some would boot , some would appear to boot then reboot and some would just fail entirely.
This wasn't exactly as i imagined because if the 71 response was solely protection related then you would expect a fake reply to fail all the time.
Really intriguing!
The ancient prophecy foretells of a mortal who unlocks the Dreamcast GD-ROM bus protocol.
DreamDogg
April 9th, 2008, 20:44
If the GDROM bus protocol can be understood precisely, would it be possible to connect a CPLD ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPLD ) to the GDROM bus to "trick" the Dreamcast into booting an alternative boot device (a flash card, for example) ?
Maybe the CPLD is not the best choice.
Would some other device work better as an interface circuit ?
undamned
April 11th, 2008, 19:44
Does anybody happen to have the pinout for the Oak Technology's OTI-9220 CD-ROM controller (the one used on some GD-ROM drives). I've seen block diagrams and know that it consists of Sony's CXD-3005R DSP/Servo control and Oak Technology's OTI-912 CD-ROM decoder integrated into one package, but that still doesn't help when trying to follow signals on the board :( Any Help?
By the way, not all GD-ROM drives use that chip. I also have one that uses Yamaha parts. I've done quite a bit of searching on those IC's to no avail. :(
Thanks!
-ud
Kilokahn
April 26th, 2008, 11:50
I am glad to see this project still going forward. I am tired of the long loading times on some of the games I have, especially when demonstrating the DreamCast on RES.
Yes, RES is still going strong everyone, in fact it has been shown at 3 conventions so far and I keep adding to it. Check it out at http://www.kkwow.com/res/
So yeah, that's my 0.02 on this, please keep it up, I'll be one of the first in line for this.
Chris
Snigel
May 4th, 2008, 05:24
Has nobody read this yet?
http://www.fuzzymuzzle.com/Kiyoshi/IDE_HDD.htm
It's still not perfect though;
* The version of NetBSD-current I use is 1.5W.
* The wdc interrupt handler is invoked by the "callout" routine polling the IRQ signal line.
* DMA/UDMA is disabled because the interface hardware dosen't support DMA transfer mode.
* The performance is not good. (max 840kb/sec)
* BbA(Broadband Adapter) and IDE drive cannot work together.
* CD-ROM drives are probably workable.
DaBeast
May 26th, 2008, 19:43
Anyone still working on this? (i registered to add a reply to this topic)
Also, maybe you can use the Dreamcast's expension slot (modding a modem) to attach a hard drive, or maybe you can use ethernet to attach one of those home share hard drives (the ones with an ethernet connection). Tho you should need a broadband modem, because with the standard 56k one the speeds would suck.
Thats why i prefer modding a 56k modem to a HD connector or to a broadband addaptor to get good speeds.
Imo that would be the best way to add a hard drive to the wonderfull Dreamcast <3 .
Please research my idea!
arranmc182
June 13th, 2008, 17:43
i would say modding a BBA or Modem to work with a harddrive would be ok but unless you made some sofware that boots be for all your games they games would not see the hard drive at all.
why carnt we why can we modify a 3rd party memory card with a USB port and then we can just plug falsh drives in or (i wouldnt recomend this as to slow) a USB hadrive because doing it this way would mean that with out any software needed the games could see the memory just fine.
or could we even mod a 3rd party memory card with a USB card reader and then we could use SD cards on the dreamcast.
Soopahsonic
June 15th, 2008, 05:40
Or better yet, what about connecting a HDD to the GD-ROM mainboard?
TheGrandPubaa
July 24th, 2008, 09:43
I hope someone's still working on this...
Tachikoma_Pilot
September 22nd, 2008, 18:53
Anyone still working on this? :confused:
Had an idea : (Im not hardware oriented so please forgive me).
How about replacing the interface cable between the GD rom and DC mainboard with one that has two connectors?
Placing the GD Rom on one and a HDD on the other.
To make things easier there could be some sort of switch that allows it to see the GD or the HDD but not both.
The HDD loading some sort of daemon to boot into a homebrew disc that starts up a file manager or something to that effect?
kohan69
September 22nd, 2008, 23:42
What about NAS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network-attached_storage)through the BBA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamcast_Broadband_Adapter)?
that seems simple enough
Tachikoma_Pilot
September 23rd, 2008, 00:16
The only problem is the limited availability of DC LAN adaptors :(
There was talk of another production run a while back, I wonder what came of that :(
quzar
September 23rd, 2008, 00:35
The only problem is the limited availability of DC LAN adaptors :(
There was talk of another production run a while back, I wonder what came of that :(
It is already documented how to create your own. Since any hard drive addition would require a greater even modification to the Dreamcast it would be easier to work it through this way.
Also, as discussed earlier in the thread, an interface has already been designed for a Dreamcast hard drive, it simply doesn't work the way you want it to.
Personally, I already have a Dreamcast with a hard drive that I can play my games off of: a Set 5 dev box.
Tachikoma_Pilot
September 25th, 2008, 18:03
So lucky you are ;_;
Gieb dev box ;_;
Kevin Beckman
October 28th, 2008, 23:27
I'm an electronics engineering student and wouldn't mind helping.
quzar
October 28th, 2008, 23:37
I'm an electronics engineering student and wouldn't mind helping.
What kind of standard IC, PIC, or such would it take to take the one data line 12 bits per cycle and the clock and output 24 bits (concatenation of two 12 bit data sets) and a halved clock?
Kevin Beckman
October 29th, 2008, 22:10
Sorry, I'm not that far into my studies yet, but if I had to guess it would be a PIC.
SA3-Possible???!!
November 20th, 2008, 22:17
Sorry if I'm interupting, (I'm new here), but I want Sonic Adventure 3 to be made 4 Dreamcast and I think a hard drive would be a perfect way to give the Dreamcast more RAM and make SA3 have up to 7 mil polys and awesome textures, just to heighten the game's quality. I dunno much about technical stuff, but giving the DC more system RAM could lead to more advanced games. Would it be possible to increase the RAM like this?!
StryfeDc
November 22nd, 2008, 06:28
Any chance someone could give a link to the instructions on how to build your own LAN?
quzar
November 22nd, 2008, 06:40
http://f17.aaa.livedoor.jp/~takotako/g2bus.php#hit0300_clone
Those are the only ones. Both iterations require using specific PC/PCI cards that have similar chips to the real sega lan adapter.
Using one or two of the most similar, it can be built using off the shelf ICs, otherwise you need a CPLD or other programmable chip.
SA3-Possible???!!
November 23rd, 2008, 04:03
All I want to know is how much additional RAM could the DC handle. I mean it'd be good to have a game that could push the system to it's LIMITS, however in order to get the most out of the system more RAM would be required to get 7 million polygons per second, which is ABSOLUTE MAX for DC. So please if you could give me a figure of how much extra RAM could be fed through the system for it's games' uses, please do tell. Could you also tell which port would be most suitable for giving Xtra RAM to the DC and also if RAM could be given to the system for more complex games AT ALL! Guys I want TO KNOW!
quzar
November 23rd, 2008, 04:54
All I want to know is how much additional RAM could the DC handle. I mean it'd be good to have a game that could push the system to it's LIMITS, however in order to get the most out of the system more RAM would be required to get 7 million polygons per second, which is ABSOLUTE MAX for DC. So please if you could give me a figure of how much extra RAM could be fed through the system for it's games' uses, please do tell. Could you also tell which port would be most suitable for giving Xtra RAM to the DC and also if RAM could be given to the system for more complex games AT ALL! Guys I want TO KNOW!
In theory you could add as much as you want on any port, if you don't want it direct mapped. You could put 64mb direct mapped on the G2 port (modem/bba), up the 16mb main ram to 64mb (within the capabilities of the SH4 and fits in the memory map), the 8mb video ram to 16mb, and the 2mb audio memory to 4mb (although then you wouldn't be able to do the whole 64mb on the G2 port).
The limits on the polygon count do not have to do with the system ram, they have to do with the speed of the cpu and the connecting busses. The best things you could probably do to increase the poly-pushing abilities of the DC would to overclock the SH, then ensure that the ram is the lowest latency possible (many DCs used different brands of ram and the RAS/CAS timings fluctuated, so they were fixed by hardwired register).
There are two reasons nobody answered you. What you are asking for will never be done, and the fact that you have to ask means that you don't have the capability to do it. And, the way you wrote your posts also implies you wouldn't be able to contribute towards the creation of such a project.
SA3-Possible???!!
November 23rd, 2008, 20:43
In theory you could add as much as you want on any port, if you don't want it direct mapped. You could put 64mb direct mapped on the G2 port (modem/bba), up the 16mb main ram to 64mb (within the capabilities of the SH4 and fits in the memory map), the 8mb video ram to 16mb, and the 2mb audio memory to 4mb (although then you wouldn't be able to do the whole 64mb on the G2 port).
The limits on the polygon count do not have to do with the system ram, they have to do with the speed of the cpu and the connecting busses. The best things you could probably do to increase the poly-pushing abilities of the DC would to overclock the SH, then ensure that the ram is the lowest latency possible (many DCs used different brands of ram and the RAS/CAS timings fluctuated, so they were fixed by hardwired register).
There are two reasons nobody answered you. What you are asking for will never be done, and the fact that you have to ask means that you don't have the capability to do it. And, the way you wrote your posts also implies you wouldn't be able to contribute towards the creation of such a project.
You didn't specify why this would never be done. I don't have the resources or knowledge to do this, but maybe someone technical would like to take on this challenge. WOW! Can the game accessable RAM really be increased by 2 to 4 times! And I just want one last great dreamcast game and maybe an add-on could make it even better.
picouser
December 3rd, 2008, 09:19
The circuit of this SD card adaptor is simple.
http://f17.aaa.livedoor.jp/~takotako/dcserial_ft232bm.php#sdcard
PSP05
June 25th, 2009, 11:51
So hows everything coming along with this idea?
Any new progress unveiled lately, or is this just still a thought I have when I can't get to sleep? :)
rosetaylor01
July 18th, 2009, 07:50
If you're wanting to have it replace the GD-ROM drive, I wish you luck in designing and coding it. Considering no one has successfully reproduced the work of destop for a GC HD interface last I checked, I doubt anyone on these forums will design and build one from scratch to support the DC.
There exists plans to make an ISA and IDE interface, but it is slow and complicated. It also requires using a loader disc to use it. I think there is one loader program and NetBSD that can use it. See the DC IDE-HD interface on Archive.org. Of course, for portabilizing, there isn't much use for this, as you have to keep the GDROM drive anyway.
spinksy
September 21st, 2009, 23:20
Any more news on the SD card reader or Hard drive?
hyperiris
August 21st, 2010, 09:55
Considering no one has successfully reproduced the work of destop for a GC HD interface last I checked, I doubt anyone on these forums will design and build one from scratch to support the DC.
I've already built a gamecube dvd drive emulator.
check this:
http://hyperiris.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!D9CFE2DC046098F8!1176.entry
running video:
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTkzNzI1NTI0.html
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