Custom Firmware - Good or Bad for the Scene ?

[wraggster]

First off id like to say that i wouldnt put a custom firmware on my PSP because i dont feel the need, but what concerns me is the threat of Legal action from Sony because of the custom firmware, are they fully legal, are the downloads legal?

What also concerns is that there could be a potential time bomb bricking code within a firmware released at some time that could render your PSP dead.

Also Sony will strike back, we know that they are preparing an attack on the devhook releases with extra code to prevent future firmware hacking and with all the info that the PSP scene presents publically you can guarentee they will be applying fixes, esp because their PSone emulator is coming soon.

What do you think about the issues ive raised, do you have your own concerns, reply via the comments.

[Jonesyxxiv]

Well the only custom firmware I use is Dark_Alex's who I think we can trust. I dont know about the legal issues, but I like being able to auto boot into IRshell, hidding my currupt icons, and being able to use 1.0 hombrew.

[notaforumtroll]

i dont use custom firmwares either, for what they offer its not worth the hassle, of even taking the slight risk of bricking my already working 110% dev hook'd psp

i'm sure sony has a lab of people dissecting dev hook/downgraders to learn from their mistakes and correct them in future releases, but in the great words of some old dude,
Where theres a will, theres a way
the homebrew community will prevail aslong as we have curious minds asking questions sharing resources and tinkering.:cool:

[nyrtrublue]

i think custom firware will help the homebrew scene. Even if it doesnt it certainly will not hurt it. And if sony was smart they should let 3.0 be dev hooked b/c im sure more people would buy games b/c alot of people play homebrew but are not pirates.

[despoteuodia]

i like the idea of the 1.5/2.71 cutom firmware and the ability to run 1.0 eboots and dev hook (now if only i know how to get all of that on my psp...)

no seriously, i plan on eventually doin that, but i dont have any of the above, yet...

[jaydoo]

Anything which increases the understanding of the way the system works is a good thing for the scene

[fistikuffs]

if these custom firmwares are illegal could the devs get in trouble if people brick their psps?

[modcase]

Nothing is ever wrong with exploring something you own in order to maximize its potential.

EDIT:
if these custom firmwares are illegal could the devs get in trouble if people brick their psps?

No, that was something the downloader takes on as a responcibility when they decide to [download, install, and run] any software such as this. Provided free (most of the times noted) without warranty.

[oafan]

not worth right now. i never flashed my 1.5 and dont plan to anytime soon. i wouldnt worry about the legal stuff but the next firmware not being able to be devhooked.

[joehoss]

The scene isn't to blame because Sony's marketing department sucks.

ex. There is a very large market for an all-in-one remote control, for inferred devices, on the PSP. Sony doesn't offer any sort of product for that target market.

I also feel that if you buy the equipment you should be allowed to do whatever you want with the equipment. You do own it once you pay for it. It's like purchasing a vehicle that you cannot customize.

Further more, I will be very disappointed if they come out with malicious code against dev. hook. Using the example above... it would be similar to GM creating the vehicle's computer chip to only allow a particular brand of fuel injectors to be installed, and if you don’t purchase that brand of fuel injector then your car blows up.

Sony is just a bunch of cry babies because their marketing department sucks.

[lopezc]

I dont use custom firmware,I just dont see the benifits of it.But when Metal Gear comes out for the psp alot of people are going to upgrade,im already thinking about about what to do when it comes out.

[Briggzy11]

sod sony there useless and they can't do a damm thing about the custom firmware, its all custom so in other words its the makers of the firmware that have the control of their FLASH programming. the makers of the custom firmware cud sue us for using it haha

[jwilds73]

This is no different then buying a computer or laptop of any kind and replacing Windows with Linux or Mac OS with Linux etc. Sony limits it's product in a way I do not like. So I will do whatever that is required to make work how I want it too. The PSP has so much potential with flash and other homebrew. Games that truly succeed and have huge followings are games like Quake and such where players are able to make addon's and changes to the games themselves. Just look at the Smash Bro's homebrew where people make their favorite characters. Imagine if we had that power with the N64 version

[The_It]

you should be able to put whatever you want on your psp, since you pay 250$ for it, and if what you put on it will kill your psp, it is your problem.


by the way, what is malicious code?

[The_It]

This is no different then buying a computer or laptop of any kind and replacing Windows with Linux or Mac OS with Linux etc. Sony limits it's product in a way I do not like. So I will do whatever that is required to make work how I want it too. The PSP has so much potential with flash and other homebrew. Games that truly succeed and have huge followings are games like Quake and such where players are able to make addon's and changes to the games themselves. Just look at the Smash Bro's homebrew where people make their favorite characters. Imagine if we had that power with the N64 version


sony only tries to stop people from making their own free programs for the psp because sony is drowning in their own greed for money.

Money is the worst thing man has ever made, I tell ya!

[penileartery]

This is no different then buying a computer or laptop of any kind and replacing Windows with Linux or Mac OS with Linux etc. Sony limits it's product in a way I do not like. So I will do whatever that is required to make work how I want it too. The PSP has so much potential with flash and other homebrew. Games that truly succeed and have huge followings are games like Quake and such where players are able to make addon's and changes to the games themselves. Just look at the Smash Bro's homebrew where people make their favorite characters. Imagine if we had that power with the N64 version

i totally agree with you. if you want you want to install custom firmware its just like installing linux on your laptop. either way. i still dont like to have custom firmware on my psp because i dont see the point really. im just happy with my 1.5 psp.

[E.J.]

I'll get crazy of joy and eat my own socks the day somebody makes Linux run on the PSP.

And i think that the custom firmware is the first step.

[stotheamuel]

sometimes i think that devhook should have have waited.. for the ps1 emu to see if the hack still worked... no it will 150% most likely be patched :(

[SnoopKatt]

I really doubt Sony would make malicious code against DevHook that would hurt your PSP, they would probably just try to block it. And you're all right, we paid for it, so we should be able to do what we want with it.

[ModMan24]

have a little faith... the creators of devhook have been smart enough to keep everything working so far. I have a feeling they will get 3.0 working to. in fact im pretty sure they will, because all that needs to happen is decrypt the firmware (and possibly a few other things that i dont know about... but i know thats a major part). they have found a way to do it to 2.71, and they will find away to do it to 3.0.

I agree that sony is being over controling. Its kinda like a parent if you will... to controlling for its own good. but im pretty sure that the people who have created the homebrew scene will make sure it survives.

Though i will say... Sony has a nasty trick with some games with 2.71... it forces the upgrade upon loading the umd. (i have a friend that was forced from 2.0 to 2.71 because of it).

As to custom firmware... I dont use it... and unless something really really cool comes along for it... say all of 3.0 built into 1.5 with the 1.0 homebrew abillity. I probably wont... Im happy with Devhook and 1.5.

Thats my opinion anyway you can take it or leave it.

[YourStillWithMe]

Sony will no doubt attack back at us but i say bring it on because patience is key and i believe that within a month or 2 we will have decrypted the firmware with the psone emulator and thats all i care about than i probably will not ever buy anymore psp games i'll just play psone, all my other homebrew, and just wait for the n64 emulator to be good what else do you need? Really!? that sounds good enough for me. . . tekken will be cool thought too i be that'll have a 2.71 update at the most so i'll be able to play that game. Anyone see a game with a 2.70 update yet?

[psiko_scweek]

...you all really think its about the money and that sony is some evil entity. Thats really not it. Yeah its about money, the world does need money to go around.

Sony is not stopping homebrew because its an evil corporation. Sony is actually more friendly toward homebrew than any other gaming corporation. They had the Yaroze, which if you didnt know, was a playstation one that allowed you to write your own playstation one games. Also they had the PS2 Linux kit which again allowed you to write homebrew for the Playstation 2. Both were limiting on the homebrew they would allow you to make but they did allow you to make homebrew.

Sony is trying to stop homebrew because it is hurting the salse of the PSP. If everyone could download PSP games off of torrent sites and run them on their PSP like as if they purchased it, it would ruin the PSPs sales. Granted sony would sell alot more PSPs, but sony does not make money on the PSP sales, but rather on the UMD sales.

I can guarentee if the homebrew scene was just homebrew games with emulators sony would not be so adamant about blocking the homebrew scene. But its not, the homebrew scene instead isnt about running hombrew titles like Doom on it, instead its about emulating higher FW, and ISOs. I know there are communities that are about the first part but the community that is supporting ISO downloads and calling sony the devil are why sony is trying to block hombrew.

[F9zDark]

Emulating firmware really isn't the issue either; since that allows 1.5 PSP owners to go out and buy higher firmware games. In fact that helps the PSP.

But you are correct in your opinion of ISOs. Its really a shame that an ISO loader was ever made, because that just solidified Sony's reasons for trying to thwart homebrew on the PSP.

I believe that if an ISO loader never saw the light of day, Sony would be thinking about ways to give us homebrew on the PSP rather than thinking of ways to take it away.

About custom firmware, I am not really a proponent of it. It wont be long before unknown coders start throwing malicious firmwares about.

I personally think that DCEMU should take a stand against custom firmware. In the days when people knew that writing to flash was a terrible idea, there wasn't much in the way of malicious code going about (for what reason? Hardly anyone would do it since everyone knew that writing to flash was bad news). But now PSP-terrorists can keep their malevolent programs hidden among well intentioned ones, and who are we to know the difference?

I believe that DCEMU should either:
A)Not allow custom firmware on their site

or

B)Have a preffered developer program, of which only a few developers are part of and who are the only ones to have their custom firmware on DCEMU.

Personally, I like the latter better than the former, but with the slew of recent additions to the 1.0 and 1.5 PSP families, there will be a ton more targets for scene terrorists.

[Briggzy11]

Forget this PSX emulator sony is making, there will be a homebrew one on the horizon, Pretty soon some mad man/woman will program a Wii to the PSP haha (Been a bit over confident about the homebrew scene there as you can tell haha) :D

[whitey75]

There is nothing illegal about custom firmwares at all. If I buy a car, say a porsche, and decided to put a ferrari engine in it. Than that's totally my business. Sure Porsche will no longer service the car, but then you just go to another mechanic. Noones going to jail.

As for devhook, hmmm...not really sure on that one. You are still using Sony's product, and all the firmware are free, in fact Sony encourage people to use it. I don't remember ever reading a disclaimer suggesting you cannot alter the firmware, although I do tend to ignore those things anyway.

Cheers

[emuking]

good because you never know they could make a custom firmware that unbricks a psp, you never know that could happen :D

[tophead420]

i say these are good for the scene becuz this could draw in more people to the psp with these added features and /or bring new ideas to the psp this opens a new window in homebrew becuz now we have more to look forward to and i totally love this fw alot some of the things about my psp that would annoy me before dont for example the SCE logo autobooting my games , the corrupt data icons and so on now this is al fixed and fine now im totally happy with my psp and i totally recomend this to anyone

[emuking]

the only reason sony wants to stop homebrew is because of the dreaded i s o loader, simple as that, i personally feel sorry for sony because they have to deal with the worst piracy ever created :(

[kayhanbakid]

I would never touch my flash unless it was 100% necessary and safe. And for me, I will just never feel safe with a custom firmware. I have no idea what could happen in the future. Although I never plan to upgrade (I would either get a modchip or 2nd PSP instead) I would never risk my 1.5 PSP with something that will save me 30 seconds.

But I think it should be legal to if someone wanted to do it. It's not too difficult to get the files from the $ONY update eboots. There may be a problem with all these sites posting the firmware files directly on their websites. That's always made me feel uneasy.

[10shu]

The actual custom firmware is a hacked version of a sony firmware so it s illegal to use it...

However, it good to the scene; We may see stuff like psix booting up from the psp soon :)

[F9zDark]

Again, let me reiterate:

The more accepted custom firmwares become, the more incentive ill-minded individuals will have at creating malicious firmwares.

Should I say it again?

[samthegreat68]

i have no use for custom firmware or any of that.

i do not beleive that sony is an 'evil corporation' if it werent for them, we wouldnt have psp in the first place. i have 2 psps so i use one for homebrew and one for commercial games. but so far the only games that have any value to me are; lumines and x-men legends II.

i was gonna buy pirates of the caribbean after i saw the movie yesterday, but it got terrible reviews :P

[shadow77]

There is only 1 real custom fw released - and thats Dark_Alex's, the others are just simple mods of his work.

Theres a simple solution to protect yourself from bricks .. only use stuff released by trusted developers.

It is NOT illegal to use custom firmware, as it was compiled with the PSPSDK, which is free and legal.

[nigelrigel]

I personaly think that custom firmwares are great, ive tried them all out and thier amazing, the only problem is that your altering sony data, and although it may not be illigal to run linux on a Windows computer, it is illigal to run an altered windows that hasnt been formaly granted permison by microsoft

[NoQuarter]

actually I think it's perfectly legal to run altered windows-just not to ditribute it or download it I assume the same applies for sony firmware

[jwilds73]

Again, let me reiterate:

The more accepted custom firmwares become, the more incentive ill-minded individuals will have at creating malicious firmwares.

Should I say it again?

People writing malicious code for the PSP is nothing new. We have already had people write bricking program's for the psp. Anyone downloading anything from an unknown developer with nothing else to their credit takes a huge risk. Even with known creditable developer's we take a risk. Dark Alex's name was trashed by someone else's lies but in the end his product worked his reputation was restored and he and his co-developer's opened up a huge door for many gamers.

[juliusnaim]

I can only see the custom firmwares as a good thing for the homebrew scene... scrap that it's got to be the way forward.

I think this is a real dividing point for the PSP scene as a whole, Sony will be sure to put blockers in the next firmware to stop firmware loading (devhook) and will try to stop any downgrading either and new games will also have firmware checks that are much harder to get around. Sony just don't want a homebrew scene at all.

At the moment custom firmwares are just mods or tweaks of the 1.5, how long will it be till someone does a complete re-write?

Some linux-head, (obsessed with getting linux onto everything from his pda to toaster), is bound to find a way to get linux on one at some point.

[cyph3r0101]

what i can say about this custom firmware rls, i wont use it unless the maker of it is well known (like dark alex custom firm.) but u have to take caution when doin it or be careful of other custom firmware that are rls... maybe some idiots will again rls a fake, bricker custom firmware. it happen on downgrader so expect some loners/ahole will do it...

im waiting for the firmware that epsilon will rls and hopes that hackers will crack it as a custom firmware for us (non-modchip user), that will be great if that sh(t happened. but im thinkin they postpone the rls to make security on the firmware they will rls... but who cares every goddamn software will be crack sooner or l8er...

[cyph3r0101]

i still dont understand why SONY dont want to embrace homebrew apps or games. reasons why sony should embrace it: PROFITS (MONEY) from customers...
read my reason here...
if a dev or group of dev rls a EMULATOR FOR SOMETHING FOR PSP(example: nintendo-GBA OR DS), r u catching my point...? ok heres the reason, if u were a customer, R U GONNA BUY GBA OR DS, OR SHOULD BUY PSP KNOWING PSP CAN RUN GBA OR DS GAMES. (im not saying sony dev who will develop it, a freelance dev)
sorry if i have evil mind:)

[mr_nick666]

There is only 1 real custom fw released - and thats Dark_Alex's, the others are just simple mods of his work.

Theres a simple solution to protect yourself from bricks .. only use stuff released by trusted developers.

It is NOT illegal to use custom firmware, as it was compiled with the PSPSDK, which is free and legal.

Trusted devs are definately the key :) I just cant see custom firmwares as a bad thing... If it makes something better then how can it be bad??? :confused:

[juliusceasar]

I think the main reason Sony don't like the homebrew scene is the associations with piracy. As much as the homebrew scene wants to distinguish itself from piracy allowing homebrew will result in an iso loader coming out.

[jwilds73]

I really want to know why we aren't running a completely custom firmware from the memory stick just like Devhook does with now up to 2.71. I'd be more then willing to give these custom firmware's a try if they offered this option. I don't know if I can simply replace the files in devhook with these custom ones but if I could I'd give these firmware's a try.

[NoQuarter]

It's seems like we are on the threshold of big changes economically, the open source movement leading the way towards a truly free market.Not this psuedo free market we have now.One where the end user decides what is produced.Big companies are going to have to change their market strategies or face major profit loss,face it or get left behind

[drEDN4wt]

Though i will say... Sony has a nasty trick with some games with 2.71... it forces the upgrade upon loading the umd. (i have a friend that was forced from 2.0 to 2.71 because of it).


Games such as?

[MikeDX]

Such as "LIES" - the fun game where its a race to find out who will get caught out first!

[jaws365]

I dig custom firmware because I hate to eject my umd every time I reboot my PSP, which is quite often. Also I think the other features are great.

Wraggster said something about time-triggered autobricking of PSP, anyone got some more info? That sounds really scary, a little terror-like actually.

[nonarKitten]

I would venture to guess (and I'm basing it on my knowledge of the legal system in Canada - and as the US is a little more draconian, I may be off), and say that distribution of a patched BIOS is illegal as it infringes upon copyright; the act of reverse engineering and bypassing the pre-existing encryption is against the DMCA (whcih we in Canada think is sooo stupid). So, anyone supplying these firmwares ought to be very careful.

[jwilds73]

Though i will say... Sony has a nasty trick with some games with 2.71... it forces the upgrade upon loading the umd. (i have a friend that was forced from 2.0 to 2.71 because of it).


Your friend is lying to you. There is not one game that auto updates your system upon loading.

[Psyberjock]

Well, any actions taken by Sony against Devhook or custom firmwares will be dependent upon us upgrading our firmware. Certainly they can make it more difficult to emulate the newer firmwares, but they can't hurt our homebrew friendly PSPs unless we update, and that has always been the case.

[Accordion]

well i use custom firmware and its great, i doubt sony will do anything more than make the firmwares signed to each psp upon install.

but surely if there is a way to stop something happening there is a way to make it happen

[deftonesmx17]

I would venture to guess (and I'm basing it on my knowledge of the legal system in Canada - and as the US is a little more draconian, I may be off), and say that distribution of a patched BIOS is illegal as it infringes upon copyright; the act of reverse engineering and bypassing the pre-existing encryption is against the DMCA (whcih we in Canada think is sooo stupid). So, anyone supplying these firmwares ought to be very careful.
I'm not targeting my response to only you but everyone that keeps saying this. It seems most of you have never used a custom BIOS flash for your computers Motherboard, have you? I had an MSI board that needed the custom, hacked, reverse engineered, whatever you want to call it BIOS as the offical MSI ones sucked. You could find these all over the place, even on MSI's german forums.

Also, I dont think dark_alexs custom firmware mods are even a hacked flash replacement. It seems with the 2 secs it takes to flash it that it has to be more of an extension to the original flash. Don't take this for a fact, but I beleive there is nothing illegal about making extensions to programs.

[F9zDark]

The legality of it depends on what is done. If the coder writes their additions from scratch, that is perfectly legal.

If the coder takes a dump of the psp's firmware and modifies parts of Sony's copyrighted work and THEN distributes it, is illegal.

Cases in the US Supreme Court deemed that circumventing any copyright protection installed by the owners of the copyright, is ALSO illegal. So just by decrypting that 2.0 and up firmware we are already breaking the law in the US.

The same applies to burning CDs or DVDs which also have these protections.

So in short, it all depends on how the new firmware was produced. If the additions were coded from scratch, then its legal. If its a copy and paste job using one of Sony's firmwares, then its illegal.

[jwilds73]

I have created iso's of games I legally own so as to play them from the memory stick. Having to carry around my PSP (in the OEM sleeve) along with any umd's for new games I want to play just isn't portable enough for me. I don't fully know all the copyright laws but I believe this to be "fair use". It seems just as stupid if Microsoft and other computer software companies required you to run all your programs from disc instead of installing them. Imagine trying to carry around your laptop with discs for every program you might need to run. It would be unduly cumbersome just like the psp and other portable gaming systems are now. Which is why ram carts were made for those systems also.

[F9zDark]

Well that was way it used to be, back in the days 5 1/4 floppy disks and even for some 3.5 disks.

As far as I have read, making ISOs of any CD, DVD or UMD that has copyright protection measures is illegal. But then again there is fair use.

[jwilds73]

I agree that is the way it used to be. The problem arises when technology is capable of more then their archaic business model's are willing to allow. I don't even see why I should have to go to the movie's at all or wait up to a year after a movie has come out to purchase it on dvd. I want to download it, burn it and watch it the day of release. Music has taken forever to become an "legal" internet product. Not because technology wasn't capable but because they were unwilling. If you don't give the customer what they want the customer will create a way themselves to have what they want. Weather it is legal or not. Businesses have to change their business models to be inline with what technology is capable of.

Running psp games directly from the memory stick saves on battery life and umd drive use/wear and prolongs my gaming experience. I believe the psx emulator SOny is producing will run downloaded games right from the memory stick also.

[r2works]

i dont think i'll be using any custom firmwares. the only way i can see myself using a custom firmware is it allows for a regional patch, unless this has already been acheived?

[NoQuarter]

well said jwilds73

[jaws365]

Firmare Timebombs !?!?! Any Info? Anyone?

[F9zDark]

It was just a theoretical possibility that someone could do to a custom firmware, so that when you install it, a timer is activated and after a certain length of time, the PSP is bricked from custom firmware.

This is a heinous act and while I do not believe anyone is embarking upon such a malicious crime, I know that there are people out there who would do that.

It is why I believe custom firmwares should not be allowed at all, because writing to flash is tricky as it is. The more desire there is for custom firmware, the more incentive malevolent people have at writing ones that would purposely brick a PSP.

[jaws365]

Ok, thanks for the info. But if if some sick-o get pleasure for bricking peoples hardware, then why not make an instant bomb instead?

[TerryMathews]

Ok, thanks for the info. But if if some sick-o get pleasure for bricking peoples hardware, then why not make an instant bomb instead?

Look at it from the perspective when people installed Dark Alex's POC firmware - only a few people tried it out to begin with, and others tried it once the firmware was proven to be safe.

Had the firmware instantly bricked the PSP, maybe 10-20 PSPs would be bricked. Set the bomb at say a month, and who can say how many would be bricked? A look at the number of views on the POC thread would lead some insight though.

[NoQuarter]

this is why source code for these type of things should always be available-so experienced coders could look at the source and determine if anything dangerous is in there plus we could compile it our self either way source code distribution makes sense.On another note I think we have more to worry about from sony installing root kits that install when firmware is decrypted

[jaws365]

Alright, I see.

But if it has not been confirmed, I think it is friggin paranoid that people consider it a great threat, even Wraggster speak of it as it already is an actual issue.

[juliusceasar]

But if it has not been confirmed, I think it is friggin paranoid that people consider it a great threat, even Wraggster speak of it as it already is an actual issue.
Totally agree m8!