PSP Homebrew Scene Going Illegal With Custom Firmwares and Devhook ?

[wraggster]

A concern raised with me about the legality of Custom Firmwares and also Devhook (Not the legal UMD version).

Lets look at Devhook, apart from the UMD version that we have at PSP News the other versions play illegal content and thus not only damage the PSP (i couldnt care less about Sony losing money but if the console was to die then that would be a shame), but they do incredible harm to the real homebrew scene, a scene that likes to stay legal, the sad thing is is that most PSP sites post both homebrew and the more dodgy stuff and glorify it too, some to the extreme of getting it on the big sites like Slashdot, but this isnt the way we want the homebrew scene to be, yes its ok to post hacks and exploits but anything with ISOs is very dodgy.

Then you have the Custom Firmwares, now as far as i know no one apart from Sony is legally allowed to have their firmware for download, i know they even went after sites like lik sang for having a mirror of the firmware, Now the custom firmware releases are good and all but the legality issue is one that should make all PSP webmasters take notice, remember if you host the file and it bricks a PSP then surely the likelyhood of being sued is there.

The real shame is that the PSP Scene which is the biggest ive known isfacing harm and with that bringing a lot of warezers to the homebrew arena.

Id like to hear from Devs, Hackers and any Legal experts their views on the issues above.

[ACID]

Whow that sucks i hope this site doesnt get hit with eanything like this because i personaly love it.

[QueadlunnRau]

Let's all move to China, or some other country that does not care about software legality!!!

JK

I really don't care much for the dodgy iso stuff (I support software companies and buy the games I like after reading tons of reviews) I do however admit I do not own all the emulator roms that I have. As for the custom firmware, I really don't see how that can be too harmful to Sony ... unless they run ISOs. A small part of the PSP's success is based on the homebrew scene, why can't they be like Microsoft and watch the hacking/cracking/homebrew scene and then copy them when new systems come out?

[JesusXP]

I agree with most of what your saying. However Sony is at fault for going to the lengths it has gone to - to prevent us from developing homebrew on the psp. At first we couldnt develop homebrew if we upgraded the firmwares, and then they locked us out of games. I feel like Sony deserves a big *f* you from the entire community anyways. Its rediculous, the only thing the PSP has going for it is the Homebrew community. Had they let us play with the platform from the begining theres no telling where we would be now. Sony tried to keep us out of developing our own software, but they also limited us to using the mediocre features they provided for us. The video playback via only MP4 was gay... converting .mov, divx/xvid avi's, mpg's shot with SONY's digital camera, and other formats is a waste of time and a pain in the ass. The web browsers uselessness, lacking flash or the ability to download and play content from the web was also a rediculous attempt to satisfy the consumer base. I bought my PSP intentionally to program on it. I really didnt expect to be blown away by the games they offered, however I didnt expect to be this dissapointed by the lack luster releases as well. Truthfully, I do own a few games, and I have some .ISO's... I find myself unable to be satisfied by either. There isn't any game I've played addictive enough or likable enough to satisfy a session of playing longer than 10 or 15 minutes... which is usually when I become frustrated and flip back to watching a movie, or listening to music. The two primary uses I would say that I have for this P.o.S. I'm kind of ranting, but I'm frustrated with how lame Sony is. The system design was flawed from the start. Memory Stick Duo ONLY... UMD ONLY... Sony Brand Media... ONLY... bullshit.. I dont feel like customizing a machine that you purchased should be considered illegal. If Sony wants to retain the rights to their PSP after I legally purchased it from them, than they can pay me. Why can we not modify the firmware if I know how to do it, and I feel like Sony's firmware is not acceptable? How come this is illegal, yet if Dell offers me ONLY windows XP, theirs almost an uprising of linux people telling me microsoft is monopolizing? I dont understand the differences in OS, versus Firmwares, or why Sony can seemingly get away with monopolizing and pushing proprietery formats vs Microsoft ... maybe someone could explain to me.

[eazy-e]

ppl keeep on hacking

[deftonesmx17]

I'm so sick of hearing about the "bad" devhook that loads ISO's :rolleyes:

This drives me nuts more than anything. I bet most of the people around here includuing these high and mighty "I wont use an ISO loader", have at least one of the following. A Xbox that has a custom dashboard on it(most likely using XBMC), have a PS2 with HDloader/HDadvance, have Swap Magic discs, have the boot disc for the dreamcast, etc, etc. All of which leave the possibility to load illegal downloaded games. Yup thats right, even if you just use XBMC for media purposes alone, you are still using a program that has the same illegal possibility as devhook. Not to mention things like XBMC and almost anything compiled for the xbox (including all the EMU's), are made from the XDK, which are highly illegal.

Is it that hard for people to grasp that some of us just can't deal with the load times of fecking UMD's??????????? Take PES5 on the PSP for example. It takes about 2 mins for a match to load from UMD, where it takes about 10-15 secs from an ISO. Not to mention the game runs much much smoother from an ISO and @ 333mhz.

[ENG]

Whow that sucks i hope this site doesnt get hit with eanything like this because i personaly love it.

Yea, it would be a shame for this site to have to change / be shut down because of custom firmware, after all the trouble this site has gone to avoiding iso discussion.

[Briggzy11]

I posted the new devhook here this morning and didnt get in trouble but Kaiser told me I forgot that the data within it was not encripted yet so I had to get the post removed. I understand that anyway but I dont think sony will die because of this homebrew thats for sure. To be honest they make money from it...

...Think about it, Friend shows another friend (without PSP) some homebrew (Like IRIS or Quake), friend without psp loves the homebrew and gets mommy to buy him/her a PSP. simple as lol, trust me I did that and people have done that because they seen my PSP (of course with custom boots and wallpapers etc lol)

EDIT:-

DCEMU wont die either, way too popular now and if sony shut it down, they will P*** off almost every buyer of the PSP haha, and that is not a good business move in my opinion.

[jaws365]

I bought Splinter Cell Essentials to find out it would not load on my FW1.5. When Devhook 0.4 was released it still could not boot the game. I got angry and downloaded the ISO. It worked, I flushed the original UMD down the toilet. I guess that was legal since i actually bought the friggin game.

Anyway, it would be interesting to know how many people uses the legal Devhook instead of the original version.

http://www.electricdungeon.org/NL%20images/guru01-1024.gif

[Briggzy11]

I bought Splinter Cell Essentials to find out it would not load on my FW1.5. When Devhook 0.4 was released it still could not boot the game. I got angry and downloaded the ISO. It worked, I flushed the original UMD down the toilet.

Anyway, it would be interesting to know how many people uses the legal Devhook instead of the original version.

You could of given me that UMD lol...

...I do use the original version to be perfectly honest with you Jaws, I never even thought of loading up illegal games and I do not intend to either. Devhook put that loader on to show just how powerful the program really is, damm BOOSTER even found out on the new version how to get homebrew working on a 2.71 PSP (Emulated of course)

Wraggster you have shown a few good points about the legality of the things you post on DCEMU and you have done well keeping things legal on the website, out of all the PSP websites that host homebrew you have the most original and you should not have to worry about DCEMU getting closed down or anything like that, as a normal PSP gamer, if i never found this site (The first PSP homebrew site I used) I probabily would not have a PSP now as I personally found it dull...

[TeamOverload]

Yeah the PSP scene is going illegal, but myself I try and keep myself away from that. Things like custom firmwares, I would likely use if I had a 1.5, as I dont consider firmware something bad as it is free anyways, but ISOs I dont touch.

[aries2k4]

This is always a touchy subject but I think both custom fw and devhook are good things.
As for custom fw, well if you buy a car you can pimp it up to your taste, so why not with the psp also?
Now Devhook.
The people who were going to pirate will do that no matter what, but there are many people who love homebrew(I love my emus), and aren´t willing to give up their 1.5. So they couldn´t buy the new games to play on the psp. The choice were, don´t play the game or resort to piracy to play it.
Now with devhook you can keep 1.5 and homebrew and still buy the game(helping Sony) and actually play it.
Were going to have to wait to see how Sony react to these things.

[borikua_rocks]

I'm so sick of hearing about the "bad" devhook that loads ISO's :rolleyes:

This drives me nuts more than anything. I bet most of the people around here includuing these high and mighty "I wont use an ISO loader", have at least one of the following. A Xbox that has a custom dashboard on it(most likely using XBMC), have a PS2 with HDloader/HDadvance, have Swap Magic discs, have the boot disc for the dreamcast, etc, etc. All of which leave the possibility to load illegal downloaded games. Yup thats right, even if you just use XBMC for media purposes alone, you are still using a program that has the same illegal possibility as devhook. Not to mention things like XBMC and almost anything compiled for the xbox (including all the EMU's), are made from the XDK, which are highly illegal.

Is it that hard for people to grasp that some of us just can't deal with the load times of fecking UMD's??????????? Take PES5 on the PSP for example. It takes about 2 mins for a match to load from UMD, where it takes about 10-15 secs from an ISO. Not to mention the game runs much much smoother from an ISO and @ 333mhz. Very well said. Unfortunatly the world of Homebrew isnt as black and white as some would believe. Its a shade of grey all the way. Whats legal to one may not be legal to others. I mean take a look at Super Mario War (on of my all time favorite games). Do you think that nintendo appreciates their mascot on a Sony PSP? I totally agree with you that the hardware is mines. i bought it, and i can do what I wish with it, and no one can stop me. If I wan tto paint the damn thing Pink, glue wings on it, and call it a butterfly, its mines to do as I wish. And the all mighty Sony cant really do anything about it. Custom Firmware is the same as custom building a PC utilizing a HP as a springboard.

[Briggzy11]

Its strange though because I can bet that employees in Sony use Homebrew as well...

[eLAy12]

The PSP itself is an amazing machine. But sony really dropped the ball on its support. The only reason the PSP is what it is is because of the whole homebrew community. The only reason why all of my friends got a PSP is because i introduced them to homebrew.

[jaws365]

Its strange though because I can bet that employees in Sony use Homebrew as well...

Yeah, probably custom formware that do not automatically boot UMD. I find that friggin annoying when testing unstable applications, or just when I use the PSP regularely, and I am just a lamer.

Jesus Crust, I have bought THREE PSPs (no.1 was stolen, no 2 had FW2.6 so I sold it). Now, I have spend approximately 900 Euros on PSP (not counting my 9 UMDs). To be honest, I would find it absurd to be sued because I used custom firmware after supporting these assholes with that much. I don´t even like the games, would have bought DS if it was not for the great homebrew scene on PSP (haven´t seen any C64/Amiga emulators or IR Shell on DS yet).

[vettacossx]

Id like to hear from Devs, Hackers and any Legal experts their views on the issues above

:D JMV DEV MOD GROUPS VETTACOSSX:D

i agree whole heartedley .....i dont think that piracy IN ANY FORM is ok...first of all if you enjoy the UMD games you have then SUPPORT the creators of the game WITHOUT YOUR SUPPORT the chances of a sequal to THAT AWESOME GAME YOUR PLAYING RIGHT NOW......ARE LESS :(
id hate to see sony take this console off the market because of PIRACY.....i would be ok if they took it off the market however BECAUSE OF HOMEBREW! theres NOTHING ILLEGAL about it even if SONY dont like it ;)

i mean i dont like the fact that SONY TRIES TO DICTATE MY PSP....anymore than anyone else and i do beleave that it is our right as the owners of the equipment to play homebrew that is LEGAL content and IF U WANT TO HELP WIN THE HOMEBREW WAR......dont support UMD theft......because thats what it is.........your taking money from the mouths of commercial game coders like our own PSMONKEY whom has done SOOOO much for the scene ......in his own spare time he has botherd to do what he does for nintendo all day just to make sure you can enjoy the benefets of HOMEBREW so lets not f*ck it up for everyone.....lets KEEP IT REAL guys IM ALL ABOUT INSTANT BANDS AT THE HINT OF ISO......i mean there are NO good exuses to put MY FAV PSP NEWS SITE IN DANGER OF CLOSING DOWN :(

[Alucard]

As the old saying goes, guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Same goes for this release. Devhook doesn't play illegal games, people play illegal games.

While devhook has the capability of playing downloaded ISOs, it also has the capability of playing legally dumped ISOs.

The fact of the matter is law is created by corporations, it is not based off of what is right and wrong. That is why a corporate leader can steal all they want from a company and skip jail, and me and you can go steal something small and go to jail for up to 20 years.

So, in my opinion, Devhook allows the user additional control over the PSP that Sony didn't want us to have. Not because we would do illegal things with it, but because Sony just wants to profit from every little thing. Bad video playback to sell UMD movies anyone?

Illegal activities will happen regardless if Devhook was released or not. I mean we have a modchip don't we?

Also, there is something else that is really really pissing me off that I would think would be a good discussion starter:

The theft of emulation and other ideas from homebrew freeware developers by large corporations.

Emulators, portable video players, location free players were all created by creative devs out there. None of these inovations came from any large company.

However, large companies now steal these ideas and attempt to patent them. Put a big price tag on them, and then try to make it illegal to create any alternate ones. Now, that is what I consider illegal.

However, as mentioned above, corporations make the laws, and therefore there is no reprecussions for these actions. Lets think about that for a second.

[borikua_rocks]

Yeah, probably custom formware that do not automatically boot UMD. I find that friggin annoying when testing unstable applications, or just when I use the PSP regularely, and I am just a lamer.

Jesus Crust, I have bought THREE PSPs (no.1 was stolen, no 2 had FW2.6 so I sold it). Now, I have spend approximately 900 Euros on PSP (not counting my 9 UMDs). To be honest, I would find it absurd to be sued because I used custom firmware after supporting these assholes with that much. I don´t even like the games, would have bought DS if it was not for the great homebrew scene on PSP (haven´t seen any C64/Amiga emulators or IR Shell on DS yet).
Yes, while the PSP is overflowing with homebrews and custom made applications, it really is lacking on great games that capture the attention fro more than 2 hours. I could count the number of games I enjoy playing on one hand. I have both DS and PSP and I have to say, in regards to gaming, the DS wins hands down. Now of course this isnt taking into consideration the EXCELLENT Homebrew scene on the PSP. Im just talking legal gaming.

[Privateer]

Emulators aren't illegal.
The ROMs they play are illegal.
Devhook isn't illegal.
The ISO's it plays are illegal.

Just think about it...

[deftonesmx17]

My post wasnt meant to support the downloading of ISO's. If youre going to speak of that, don't use me as a reference to anything within the same post. I was just stating that many people love to load their retail games from their MS or HDD due to speed and ease. Its much easier to carry my PSP with three of my games on my MS than to carry my PSP plus the three UMD's in something that will protect them.

[grin.ch]

If ppl are legit and they don't wanna use ISOs, they can still use the Normal DevHook b/c it as well plays UMDs. IDK why they've made "Legal" versions, but w/e.

keep going, Booster! You're a Genius! Btw, he's just figured out how to get homebrew running on 2.71 emulation! HELLZ yea!!!

[chriswyatt]

I only use my Supercard and my Qoob SX for legal purposes, even though it would be tempting not to.

(Actually, I did download Electroplankton and Nintendogs but that was just because I would have never bought them anyway, just wanted to try them out)

[karurosu]

Well, I like what Alucard said: Is the people that plays Illegal ISOs.
Devhook was released as both a firmware emulator and a UMD (and legal ISO player) what people does with it, it's their problem.

Just think about this: If you have a PC, with an internet connection, you can go to the internet and download all kind of illegal stuff (ranging from just downloaded games to something even worst) and nobody blames the ISPs, internet browsers or OS.

As for the custom firmware. There is no place were you agree to have a non-modified PSP. So it's perfectly legal to have yur PSP with whatever you want.
You may say: "Custom firmwares break the copyright". To all those people, Dark_Alex and all the developers have said it a million times: Custom firmwares DO NOT modify existing files (otherwise they won't be avaliable for download in every PSP site). These firmware mods simply add files to the boot procedure, givingthe PSP extra functions. If you don't beleive me, remember the installation procedure, it copies files, maybe replaces a couple in the flash (since it needs to change the configuration in the PSP to load the mod's boot code). But it's the same modificacion that you would do when replacing your windows shell (something perfectly legal!).

A quick reminder, downloading the "full packs" with devhook and the firmware already unpacked and decrypted is illegal. But getting the PBP is not.

Having the firmware decrypted can be considerd shady, cause there is no clear statement on how legal is for a person to have a decrypted copy of the Eboot. (and if that's the case, then not only devhook is illegal, but also MPHFL, MPHloader, RunUMD, and all other loaders)

see ya

[qaopjlll]

It seems very hypocritical to me that DCEmu would allow emulator discussion but wouldn't allow us to talk about the "illegal" version of DevHook, given that they are the exact same concept. If you are under the impression that creating a backup copy of a game you own is illegal, and hence any application that has the capability of playing these "illegal" backups is illegal, then surely any emulator would also have to be illegal unless it could only play Public Domain roms.

[SSaxdude]

I'm really tired of these people who go here and hate isos so much. It's like these people take offense in them. Not all of us have much money or want to spend much money on PSP games.

Actually, I should have boughten more games because my computer with all my isos (all 30 of them) won't turn on anymore.

Let's get real: piracy hurts the industry so little it's like throwing a marshmellow at a brick wall. The amount of people who don't pay for games versus the amount of people who do pay for games is very dismal. I only know two other people who use isos on their PSP; versus about 10 people who don't.

I wasn't buying any PSP games when I was really into homebrew. Now that I'm really into isos, I still don't buy any games.

[borikua_rocks]

Ok, heres a question which I know no one who bashes ISO's will respond to.

If I own a GBA Cart and I make a Rom to play on a GBA emulator. how is that any different than if I own a UMD game and I rip it as an ISO to a memory stick to run on Devhook? Or if I own a DVD and transfer it to a Memory stick to view it on my PSP? Again...shades of grey my friends. Shades of grey.

[.:}<3\/!}\{:.]

i think dev-hook is one of the best things in the PSP homebrew scenes and would be a shame to see it die, i dont think it's bad. i think its sony's fault that they want allow homebrew because if they did allow it then dev-hook probly wouldn't be here.....
i support the hackers and homebrew side^^

[shadowhawk22]

I don't think it is illegal. The legality issue comes up when we begin to share ISO's. Talking about ISO's is NOT illegal, although I recognise that some sites like to keep discussion of those things down as well. Devhook allows someone to rip their own firmware from the PSP, and then emulates it. It could be seen as illegal to give someone the tools to rip copyrighted firmwares, but I doubt it. This is like copying music CD's... It isn't legal to copy music from a CD to a computer, but no one cares if you do it, because the law of music right infringement is so lame that no one likes to get people in trouble for it. PSP firmware stuff is much the same, if its illegal then it is a tiny, lame, stupid law that no one should really care about.

Keep up the good work hackers, and you-- dcemu!

,Hawk

[The_Ultimate_Eggman]

serves $$$$$$ony right tough luck :).hope they loose millions they can afford it.Trying to block hb development is more reason for hackers to find ways to allow home made code to be run however many way they find to try to block it.The comunity will find twice as many to allow it.

[GobboFett]

The legality of homebrew for PSP, or emulators in general has been a widely debated issue and I don't think it will ever be resolved.

Of corse, emulators are developed legally from a coders bare hands but the intention of said program is to run illegal material (with some exceptions). Now we are in the era of full ISO's for games on PSP (which I strongly DISAGREE with). Then we get into Custom Firmwares which are in essence, streamlined exclusively to play illegal material such as ISO's which IS wrong. So I believe as long as it is kept legal (ie; DevHook UMD) there should be no problems or random suing ;)

DCEmu FOREVER!!!

[JesusXP]

...we should have all just supported gp2x from the start...

[borikua_rocks]

Well we also have to remember the reason for most custom firmwares and downgraders and etc is that Sony "tricked" us into upgrading our firmware int he first place. And not only that, but the ones who were lucky enought o be informed what exactly upgrading your firmware entitled, were denied special features. Windows updates pretty much daily, but we still ahve the option to choose which updates we want.

[tophead420]

wtf sony is slowly starting to piss me off and why you may ask becuz there getting all pissed off over bs that they shouldnt now some of the things i agree with like certain devhooks that load isos i can see and now i know isos a totally illegal and people should not be putting them on the net for download thats who sony needs to be going after not the homebrew developers they arent doing anything bad that but the firmware i dont get it why get all pissed for some one hosting a download of there fw i mean come on be real now i shuold be able to do what ever i please with my psp no matter what it is i spent the 250 bucks for the mother ****** now its mine sony so get over it imma hack and mod the shiz out of it becuz i own it now its nothing to get pissed over and as far as sony frowning about homebrew and saying it lowering sells of there games not really becuz most of the people i know dont have a clue about homebrew and what it is and i know people that do use homebrew still buy UMD games i know i do at least when i got the money and as a matter of fact im getting a new one next week now sony should chill out the reason sells are dropping is be cuz of price of games and hardware i mean 50 busks for a tiny ass disk that has a fualty bs casing u know what im talking about i know a few of you have had a umd break like the casing fall apart becuz its a cheap 2 doller piece of shi* they need a 2piece casing on umds not one thats 4 pieces(the 2 clear pieces and the 2 white ones) it should be fixed thats 1 reason i think why people dont buy a lot og umds well those are my thought on this and i know i got a lil off topic but im sorry im tired of sonys bullsh** lol and o yeah somy give us anther fw update so it can be hacked and then another becuz these exellent hackers will keep on hacking them so all igot to say to sony is f*** u sony F*** U :p

[SnoopKatt]

If someone made 100% original software, Sony can't sue you for writing it or using it unless it does something illegal. But does it? No. However, if it uses some code from other FW's, then that's illegal.

As for DevHook that loads ISO's, that's not illegal too. DevHook is legal both versions because it's just loading an ISO. It is not creating an ISO or making an image. I know that everyone is against it here (I don't like ISO's either), but that doesn't mean it's illegal. If it was illegal, then that would mean that all of our emulators are illegal, even if they run old games. It would mean that ePSXe (PC PSX emulator) and many other things are illegal.

[SSaxdude]

^ Please use sentences tophead420!

[SnoopKatt]

^ Please use sentences!
I did...

[jaydoo]

4 legs good, 2 legs bad
rom good, iso bad

how will you feel when Nintendo start charging for theirs and Segas back catalogue?

[Illegal Machine]

personaly I couldnt care less about what these companies think they can tell you what you can and can't do..


Just because THEY say it's illegal doesnt make it so. it comes down to this.


When you buy a UMD, or a CD, or ANY kind of media, you may be led to belive that you're actually purchasing the content contained within, however the reality of it is that you're buying the PLASTIC DISC which the desired media is embedded upon. nothing more, JUST a piece of plastic.

So then you can make the statment that you're buying a container and being enticed to do so with alluring content contained within. But what if the containers themselves become obsolete? the fact of the matter is that I don't NEED a UMD to play PSP games. Oops sorry Sony! guess you wont make as much money as you originaly decided to. OH WELL! Personaly I DON'T care because I DON'T own stock in SONY, EA GAMES, or any of the related companies that are currently experiencing revenue loss as a result of the rampant piracy that's going around these days.


nor do I give a shit about anyone who works for sony, ANY of its affiliates, the related stockholders, the people who work for the distributors, What it comes DOWN to is that I DO NOT CARE ABOUT ANYONE BUT ME.


Sorry Sony, Sorry stockholders, sorry employees.


but I'm ESPECIALLY sorry for all the douchebags that seem to think its their responsibility to defend these people in exchange for NOTHING. "Put down ISOs now", "Piracy is bad and keeps programmers from making money", "The PSP is going to turn into another dreamcast and die" YOU people are the most pathetic, considering how NONE of the afforementioned industry people would help YOU if you were dying in the street in front of them.



so think about that.

[shadow77]

As i have said before, devhook and custom firmwares are not illegal or else sony would be shutting down the sites hosting it.

Custom firmware just contains code that adds functionality to your PSP (in simple terms: it adds a module). None of the original sony firmware files are distributed / modified.

Devhook is just another hb program that can load isos / 2.x umds, you can do illegal things with it, but the code itself is not illegal. Its all up to the user. Its same thing with emulators ..

[rock_light]

Homebrew is just as harmful as pirating.

Actually saying that ppl are losing money on pirated copies that required abolutely no production cost besides creation is foolish and uneducated.

There's only one reason homebrew may not be such a large threat and that was because up untill a month ago 1.5 access was still restricted to most users. No one wants to develop for a system they can't test on. Btw: when 'I' talk about home brew I mean ALL homebrews, hacks, loaders, etc. (Not Sony Endorsed)

Anyways you homebrew fans ARE just as bad as any pirate out there. If you emulate at all your a bloody pirate anyways. Dont give me that freeware rom bulls**t you don't play those. Your playing Chrono Trigger, Megaman, Mario, Final Fantasy, etc.

Custom firmwares will only make sony money.
This is the effect of PSP pirates.

[Voltron]

1.) Homebrew (Legal & Dodgy) no doubt boost PSP Sales but many argue that Sony makes no money on HARDWARE sales. Only GAME sales.

2.) A higher quantity of expensive high-capacity PRO Duo memory sticks are no doubt sold due to homebrew & ISO Loaders. Sony probably makes a profit fo them. Except SanDisk has better sticks.

3.) If Sony plays their cards right with the PSOne EMU, that will make large amounts of profit and revive the PSP.

Basically, I think all of the countermeasures put in place to combat homebrew have actually hurt Sony more than it helped. And the ONE game that would have consistently sold due to the exploit (GTA) they patched so nobody is going to want to buy it. IT will be looked for USED.

Homebrew and all that comes with it is not unstoppable. I don't think there is quite enough homebrew junkies in the world to cause the PSP a quick demise. YET!!!

[borikua_rocks]

Its true. Ceating and Using Iso's is not illegal. Creating and Using Rom is not illegal. Creating an emulator is not illegal. Now, free distibution of such items, without actually paying for the original, thats another story. Custom Firmwares? Those are original creations meant to run on a hardware you paid to own.

[Harshboy]

exactly, you paid to own it, they did not give you rights to it, just to use it. This is similar to Microsoft's Windows. They did give it to you, you paid for it and they are letting you use it, its not yours, its just yours to use.....i kinda just countered your post, got any comebacks?

[jwilds73]

If Sony comes down on the homebrew community it will only push us off of their product and only a more homebrew friendly one such as the GP2X and XGP. I want my homebrew and emulators and if I can't have them on my PSP I will still have them only elsewhere.

[Dave the Rave]

If Sony comes down on the homebrew community it will only push us off of their product.
And Sony cares why? The majority of posters have already said that they don't buy UMD films and games so Sony have already made all they're going to out of people who only run homebrew.

[dthpsc]

Maybe I'll get flamed a little for saying this, but I think this whole anti-ISO campaign is a little ridiculous. Many, myself included, legally (yes, legally) dump our UMDs to ISOs in order to play directly from the memory stick and not have to carry around an extra UMD to play different games (you only need one in the drive). I always get a kick out of those "I hate ISO" signatures... sometimes I even laugh out loud to myself (not too loud though). ISO files are great for many reasons, and generalizing its use seems pretty ignorant to me.

I understand how playing illegal copies of games brings the game sales down, but honestly... how many PSP owners even know about this stuff, let alone have the abillity to exploit this feature? Let's get real guys, there's a very small percentage of PSP owners that know anything about playing ISOs. Saying that it'll kill the system is exagerating a little, don't you think?

Look at it this way. No no matter what particular programs we place the blame on (in this case DevHook, a great piece of software), another one will always come out. Look at DVD Decrypter... great piece of software, many great uses. They got shut down, now there's hundreds others like it. I hope that made sense, I'm just kind of typing whatever comes to mind now.

That's my 2 cents... or 10 cents... or whatever on this issue... I'm really tired of hearing about it (sorry but it's the truth). Love this site, no kidding I come here everyday, but this talk about piracy and all only promotes its use (many will come and see that there is, in fact a way to copy games and jump all over it). And, dare I say, I'm sure there's at least a few hypocrites out there who whine about it but use this kind of stuff themselves. Try not to get too upset about what I just wrote, I'm sure some of you will be a little offended.

-Peace out

[luis_05]

Ok, heres a question which I know no one who bashes ISO's will respond to.

If I own a GBA Cart and I make a Rom to play on a GBA emulator. how is that any different than if I own a UMD game and I rip it as an ISO to a memory stick to run on Devhook? Or if I own a DVD and transfer it to a Memory stick to view it on my PSP? Again...shades of grey my friends. Shades of grey.
Dude thats not the issue!! The thing is if u got the ISO ilegally!!

Most ppl wont agree but have u ever been in class and some idiot acts stupid so the rest of the class gets punish along with him? I have and Im afraid that sony might do the same. They may punish the rest of us cuz a couple of ppl are using ISOS!! think about it. Sony are so full of it they might do it

And how many ppl are playing homebrew? not many and yet Sony noticed it and released patches!! Same with ISOS thats why they release patches so that few percent wont play those ISOS no more, making it harder for hackers to find new exploits!! Think about it

[LazerTag]

Are custom firmwares for DVD players "illegal"

I would say the same answer must be true for other electronic devices?

[Sumo X]

I find it extremely hypocritical of Dcemu claiming the moral highground in regards to Devhook while encouraging the release of emulators. So it's bad to play and ISO of a game you own if it's for the PSP but good if it's for the GBA/SNES/Genesis?

Also, DCemu consistently promotes hombrew games that feature ripped sprites. Where's the outrage over that? The game engine might've been created legally, but the graphics surely aren't legally obtained.

Furthermore, since the Kxploit is basically a workaround of the security system of the PSP, it's arguable that ALL homebrew is illegal (not that I support such a view). So if DCemu was truly commited to legal homebrew, it could only be for 1.0 PSPs featuring completely original graphics, sound, and engine.

Just post the new Devhook and don't advertise that it can play ISOs if it'll make you feel better.

[jwilds73]

And Sony cares why? The majority of posters have already said that they don't buy UMD films and games so Sony have already made all they're going to out of people who only run homebrew.

So Sony is going to throw millions of dollars away prosecuting these figurative "few" Homebrew gamers and developers? Homebrew and Emulators are not covered in any major medium ie: G4, Gaming magazines etc. The bulk of gamers do not know anything about Homebrew or Emu's so throwing money away chasing those of us that do down would only bring Homebrew and Emulators into the limelight. It would be the worse thing they could do. Plus they could never hope to recoup the legal costs again utter folly to do this. They are better off leaving us alone and trying to woo us into upgrading with the newest firmwares capabilities.

[notaforumtroll]

Emulators and ISO loaders lead the horse to water,
Roms and ISOs make the horse drink.

[borikua_rocks]

I find it extremely hypocritical of Dcemu claiming the moral highground in regards to Devhook while encouraging the release of emulators. So it's bad to play and ISO of a game you own if it's for the PSP but good if it's for the GBA/SNES/Genesis?

Also, DCemu consistently promotes hombrew games that feature ripped sprites. Where's the outrage over that? The game engine might've been created legally, but the graphics surely aren't legally obtained.

Furthermore, since the Kxploit is basically a workaround of the security system of the PSP, it's arguable that ALL homebrew is illegal (not that I support such a view). So if DCemu was truly commited to legal homebrew, it could only be for 1.0 PSPs featuring completely original graphics, sound, and engine.

Just post the new Devhook and don't advertise that it can play ISOs if it'll make you feel better.
Couldnt have said it better myself. i mean, I love this site. I truly do. But to promote one illegal activity and strongly ban another...weak.

[Cap'n 1time]

we provide neither links to iso's or roms. We do not promote illegal activity and if you can point out to us a single occasion we we have I will take it into account and fix it. Emulation is not illegal in any way. The rom images we have provided are PD, and thus totally legal. We do not encourage the use of illegal material and discussion of it is always looked down upon.

If you own any illegal back ups of any game for any console, open discussion of it on DCemu will ALWAYS recieve a ban for it... period. Also these "patched dev hooks" do not load illegal ISO images and I am unsure as to why these programs have even been mentioned.

The idea, and the way we run DCemu is not hypocritical in anyway, however some of our users may choose to download illegal images of games and software and thats fine... but It will not be discussed here.

Also note that the "moral way" of the emulator and the "legal way" of the emulator MAY vary. I will not go into details, but if some of you are smart enough... you can figure it out.

[shadowprophet]

As i have said before, devhook and custom firmwares are not illegal or else sony would be shutting down the sites hosting it.

Custom firmware just contains code that adds functionality to your PSP (in simple terms: it adds a module). None of the original sony firmware files are distributed / modified.

Devhook is just another hb program that can load isos / 2.x umds, you can do illegal things with it, but the code itself is not illegal. Its all up to the user. Its same thing with emulators ..

I agree with this guy.

[fistikuffs]

To the many posts saying **** you sony if you wont allow homebrew blah blah. Sony spent millions developing the psp and if they don't want homebrew on it that is their choice and its a position they are entitled to. For the record i love homebrew so i simply won't upgrade.

As for the legal issue i fear that dcemu is on shaky ground. I find it hard to believe that all the people that downloaded any of the mame emus actually own those roms. And that can obviously be applied to the rest of the emus. Also when the sanitized dev hook was first released didn't dcemu link to the firmwares? In the context for what they were to be used for couldn't this be perceived as illegal?

I love dcemu its the only site i trust and the people on it are great. I think it would be wise for wragg to seek some legal advice on just how legal dcemu really is.

[Shiaoran]

I don't think custom FWs are illegal. I mean, is changing the faceplate to a third party one illegal? Is putting stickers in your console illegal? I don't think so.

[borikua_rocks]

we provide neither links to iso's or roms. We do not promote illegal activity and if you can point out to us a single occasion we we have I will take it into account and fix it. Emulation is not illegal in any way. The rom images we have provided are PD, and thus totally legal. We do not encourage the use of illegal material and discussion of it is always looked down upon.

If you own any illegal back ups of any game for any console, open discussion of it on DCemu will ALWAYS recieve a ban for it... period. Also these "patched dev hooks" do not load illegal ISO images and I am unsure as to why these programs have even been mentioned.

The idea, and the way we run DCemu is not hypocritical in anyway, however some of our users may choose to download illegal images of games and software and thats fine... but It will not be discussed here.

Also note that the "moral way" of the emulator and the "legal way" of the emulator MAY vary. I will not go into details, but if some of you are smart enough... you can figure it out.
I explained it better on my previous posts. What im trying to say is that if your going to BAN devhook for the ability of loading "illegal ISO" than you should also BAN Emulators which could be used to load illegal ROMS.

[carpy]

we provide neither links to iso's or roms. We do not promote illegal activity and if you can point out to us a single occasion we we have I will take it into account and fix it. Emulation is not illegal in any way. The rom images we have provided are PD, and thus totally legal. We do not encourage the use of illegal material and discussion of it is always looked down upon.

If you own any illegal back ups of any game for any console, open discussion of it on DCemu will ALWAYS recieve a ban for it... period. Also these "patched dev hooks" do not load illegal ISO images and I am unsure as to why these programs have even been mentioned.

The idea, and the way we run DCemu is not hypocritical in anyway, however some of our users may choose to download illegal images of games and software and thats fine... but It will not be discussed here.

Also note that the "moral way" of the emulator and the "legal way" of the emulator MAY vary. I will not go into details, but if some of you are smart enough... you can figure it out.


Remove all the links to all the other emulators for the PSP then. The likelihood that a user here will actually own a UMD, but choose to run an ISO rip of it from a memory stick is FAR GREATER than the likelihood that ANYONE involved in this site in any way, shape, or form owns ALL the PCBs for ALL the MAME roms they run in MAME4ALL.

Cut the bull.shit, seriously.

I love this site, but the rules of "Non-Sony Rom talk is ok, but don't talk about UMD isos" is extrememly hypocritical.

And it's not that I want to encourage illegal ISO use. I don't. Devhook's ability to run ISOs is beneficial to save battery life. It also makes it so I don't have to lug around a half dozen fragile UMD's with me.

[rock_light]

Maybe this topic should be closed before we nit-pick each and every reason the dcemu should be in trouble for. They are very careful to provide the most legal way to enjoy psp apps for free.

IE: Im sorry for raising any contraversal emu talk.

- I love my Public Domian rom collection . . . -

All those games, they're just so great...
I guess some are playing their 'backups' but perhaps maybe are not such a good topic for us.
Or the legalities.

I'm sure there is plenty of other ps2/ psp i nfo forums to bring up those topics.

[TeamOverload]

This comes down to a debate we had at qj.net before of roms vs isos. I dont remember why, but they allow rom discussion as well, but not isos. They allow devhook which I agree with, since it is a huge breakthru and does so much more than isos.

[grit]

As i have said before, devhook and custom firmwares are not illegal or else sony would be shutting down the sites hosting it.

Custom firmware just contains code that adds functionality to your PSP (in simple terms: it adds a module). None of the original sony firmware files are distributed / modified.

Devhook is just another hb program that can load isos / 2.x umds, you can do illegal things with it, but the code itself is not illegal. Its all up to the user. Its same thing with emulators ..

Ditto. Agree 100%!

[-LO-LEADER1]

We are doing nothin wrong...if anything, sony should be rewarding us for our honor and boldness to resist all the illegal activities..lol
keep it up wraggster and the rest of the staff...brothers 4 life:cool:

[F9zDark]

Personally I think the whole ISO thing is rather stupid.

Are we not allowed to download music playing apps because they can play illegally downloaded music, much in the same way that they can play legally made backups of our cds?

I got the DevHook full version and using fastloaded, made an ISO dump of GTA:LCS so that I could finally play the damn game multiplayer with my friends on my 2 PSPs.

Sadly that didn't work out, since the ISO loads alot faster than the UMD and the game gets out of sync and disconnects. So I went out and shelled out another 40 dollars for another copy of GTA:LCS.

And what does that have to do with my point? This site is essentially alienating fans who would like to make legal backups of their games, throwing them in with the pirates who don't give a shit.

Thats just not right. Devhook shouldn't need to be 'made legal' for this site simply because it can load ISOs. The PSP by default can play music, whether its illegal or not, and no one seems to argue about banning music apps from here.

Lay off a bit with the ISO loading, if Sony really wanted to put a stop to it, they would have sued the makers of Fastload and Devhook into poverty. But Sony isn't going after the people who make homebrew; they are going after the people that make and distribute their game's ISOs.

Yes, maintain strict standards on ISO discussion, eliminate any posts giving links to ISO downloads or providing emails to which they can be accessed, and ban the members who do that. But don't censor homebrew because it has the capability of loading ISOs.


About custom firmware, there is nothing wrong with it, so long as the author WROTE ALL OF HIS/HER OWN CODE.

The instant that author becomes lazy and throws in a Sony file, then custom firmware is ILLEGAL.

[hempy]

You guys are dumb

Kaiser: Trolling warning added

[Wally]

Devhook emulates 2.71 which means we can play loco roco on 1.50 with the original UMD.

2.71 cant play homebrew.

If sony lets companies make their own UMDS for demos and stuff, we wouldnt really have this problem.

DS have very good games where most games on PSP are tasteless (We dont even have a proper crash bandicoot game yet, which i would buy happily)

Ds has Mario and tons of cool games which last. when sony bring out the PS1 emulator i guess they want people to buy the same game they already bought 10 years ago from an iTunes store type interface so why buy them again. Sony need to trust us.

[NoQuarter]

I totally understand dcemu's view their just trying to protect the site and the scene,this is very respectable so we should respect them.Piracy is like drugs push it down in one place it pops up ten other and I really don't think sony is in a financial position to procecute everybody involved in the scene so point is they will really have a hard time stopping the movement which is closley related to the open souce movement which is bringing about the closest thing any of us have ever seen to a true FREE MARKET!

[MicroNut]

Why complain about the inevitable?
Enjoy it while it lasts.
Before you know it
It will be gone
And the next best thing will replace it.

[tophead420]

exactly, you paid to own it, they did not give you rights to it, just to use it. This is similar to Microsoft's Windows. They did give it to you, you paid for it and they are letting you use it, its not yours, its just yours to use.....i kinda just countered your post, got any comebacks?

ok your totally retarded i should be able to do what i please with my psp its mine not sonys at least not anymore im the owner of it so if i wanna hack and mod it or he** through it into a brick wall i can and what are they gonna do about it nothing thats what its not there say so to tell me what to do with it becuz its mine when i bought it they lost there right to my psp and they cant tell me modding it or distrubuting any hacks and mods are bad becuz i dont distribute anything for profit and thats what really makes them mad using there work and changing it and then selling it to people thats when it gets to a bad point but i dont do that so theres my come back buddy LMAO but thats just my opinion on this subject :p

[ACID]

tophead420 i agree with you i bought it its mi psp and can do with it what i want sony cant forse me to upgrade or anything of that sort. Actually if we think about it we bought a 1.50 psp when it first came out with the idea that we where going to use it not have to keep upgrading it to satisfie sony.

[Kaiser]

DCemu is fine without pirates. We won't fall for the legality argument. We all know the real reason people use those programs and we'll continue to ban them like we always have. However the real reason DCemu bans this discussion is because we don't want the same group of people who are often found on other sites that allow such talk (mostly idiots). We want to advertise a clean, safe and fun homebrew scene.

Our rules are fine and their is no justification for using illegal ISOs. The whole legal back-up argument is pretty weak as well.

[Ichijoe]

DCemu is fine without pirates. We won't fall for the legality argument. We all know the real reason people use those programs and we'll continue to ban them like we always have. However the real reason DCemu bans this discussion is because we don't want the same group of people who are often found on other sites that allow such talk (mostly idiots). We want to advertise a clean, safe and fun homebrew scene.

Our rules are fine and their is no justification for using illegal ISOs. The whole legal back-up argument is pretty weak as well.


So would you please do us the great Justice of marking the Line, between say a Rip-off ROM Immage of some Zelda and or Sonic Game to that of let's say for arguments sake Daxer?!

I'm not sure I get you?! If "Leagl Back-ups", do not hold H²o with you? Then why the Hell does this Site openly support and condone the Piracy of everyone elses Platform, (even good 'ol S0NY®™ to some extent w/the fabled PSX Emu.),. But, God forbid One should breath a Word about Devhook's abbility to run *.isos' and or *.csos'...

Talk about the Forking Pot and the damn Kettle!!!

[ACID]

Ichiejoe theres a differense beteween games that are been mass producet right now and a game that its not made anymore and the only way you can get is use. NES doesnt make games eany more for its platform neether does PS1 there for all rom sites are aloud to post the roms granted you still legaly need a copy of the original. PSP umds are new and are all still been produce so no rom site can have them example GBA even though old nintendo still releases games so no web is aloud to host its roms. The bottom line no matter how many times someone downloads a copy like you sayd Zelda or Sonic nintendo is not loosing money because they arent makeing it any more. Thats why with all systems that dont have current sofware sales.

[Ichijoe]

Dude your so full of **IT it reeks!

Don't come up to me all Religious about, One thing and then turn a Blind Eye away from the same thing! I could care less if NES and Co. are passé! There Games are to my knowledge very much still under Copyright! and will remain so for quite some time to come yet!

While the NES and or Other System may not be in any direct harm do to this policy, unlike a current System.

IT'S STILL PIRACY!! Either embrace this view 100%, not to mention all the Homebrews that are ripping off other Peoples good hard Work (e.g. Sprites), or STHU!!

Wasn't Waggster that said something about wanting = stealing a Ferreri? Bla bla...

Well by your argument I should be able to rip off old Elvis CD's from the 'net, Hell Elvis can't make anymore Money! HES' FREAKING DEAD! Right!?

Grow up!

Last Edit: It's freaking amazing how One Site can be so Two-Faced!!

[SweetFA]

Well by your argument I should be able to rip off old Elvis CD's from the 'net, Hell Elvis can't make anymore Money! HES' FREAKING DEAD! Right!?

Grow up!

Last Edit: It's freaking amazing how One Site can be so Two-Faced!!
Elvis CDs are still being made and marketed.
NES games aren't.

Not a very good comparison, was it :rolleyes:

[F9zDark]

Perhaps, but his points are valid. All of the emulators can run games that are still under copyright by their owners. If you go out and manage to find an NES game or PSOne game, the copyright owners will get royalties.

That isn't so much different from legally made ISOs, and personally, I find it appalling that staff members of this site would go so far as to say those things about its own members.

If I cared for piracy as much as you believe, why is it that I am here and not over at PSP-Hacks? Because I could give a damn about piracy.

The only ISO I have for the PSP is that of GTA:LCS, and that I made myself, for myself. No one else is getting that ISO. In fact, I don't even have it on my computer anymore, which is a clear indication of just how badly I need it(which now I don't, having purchased another copy of the game.)

ISOs are similar to just about everything found on this site. You all turn a blind eye to roms, even though no one here makes their own roms of the games they own. Which is also another thing, roms too, are illegal if you don't own the game.

Regardless of their availability, you can still find NES and SNES games for sale at game stores. And Ebay is another great location to find these products. That is no excuse either.

We may as well be 100% on this and do not condone the use of any products which can essentially be used for illegal activities. If you're going to be strict about ISOs, then be strict about all Music apps, Photo apps, Video apps, and Emulators; since all of those programs can run illegally obtained material; none of which provides the end user with a way to obtain these items legally from the things they own, mind you, unlike Fastloader.

[shadowprophet]

Dude your so full of **IT it reeks!

Don't come up to me all Religious about, One thing and then turn a Blind Eye away from the same thing! I could care less if NES and Co. are passé! There Games are to my knowledge very much still under Copyright! and will remain so for quite some time to come yet!

While the NES and or Other System may not be in any direct harm do to this policy, unlike a current System.

IT'S STILL PIRACY!! Either embrace this view 100%, not to mention all the Homebrews that are ripping off other Peoples good hard Work (e.g. Sprites), or STHU!!

Wasn't Waggster that said something about wanting = stealing a Ferreri? Bla bla...

Well by your argument I should be able to rip off old Elvis CD's from the 'net, Hell Elvis can't make anymore Money! HES' FREAKING DEAD! Right!?

Grow up!

Last Edit: It's freaking amazing how One Site can be so Two-Faced!!
You have quite possibly the worst attitude ive seen from an active member in the forums, Maybe its best if you become nonactive for about. ohh say seven days, to work on that attitude problem..

[SSaxdude]

Ok, old games (like NES) aren't new and the companies making them aren't making money off them. But there is still a big market for these games.

If I were to download a PSP iso, Gamestop or Ebgames wouldn't get my money from selling me this game.
If I were to download Super Mario Bros. and use it on a PSP emulator (and I don't own this game) then Gamestop or Ebgames won't get my money from selling me this game.

Roms and PSP isos are pretty much the same, so stop tricking yourself into thinking isos are this horrible thing.

Emulators could be considered illegal since some use bios. How many of you actually own a Neo Geo or Neo Geo CD?

There are so many advantages to using isos rather than UMDs.

[DPyro]

DS have very good games where most games on PSP are tasteless (We dont even have a proper crash bandicoot game yet, which i would buy happily)

You do realize that Crash Bandicoot is dead. As in, the rights to the game are owned by Universal Studios and therefor Naughty Dog decided to make another game working with Sony (Jak and Daxter). Sony now owns Naughty Dog.

[Kaiser]

Your all over-looking what I've already stated. Just because its legal doesn't make it okay.

~ We don't share any commercial roms on this site. Nether do we share and illegal PSP ISO's. Everyone should understand that.

~ Those loaders are legal sure enough, but we'd prefer not allow discussion or post news about them. We have many reasons for this rule. We don't want a community full of pirates and ISO loaders do far too much damage to the PSP. ISO loaders hurt the image of our site and they hurt the image of the PSP community as a whole (which is only trying to gain legitimacy). The coders behind them aren't doing anyone favours in the long run.

[Pico]

:D JMV DEV MOD GROUPS VETTACOSSX:D

i agree whole heartedley .....i dont think that piracy IN ANY FORM is ok...first of all if you enjoy the UMD games you have then SUPPORT the creators of the game WITHOUT YOUR SUPPORT the chances of a sequal to THAT AWESOME GAME YOUR PLAYING RIGHT NOW......ARE LESS :(
id hate to see sony take this console off the market because of PIRACY.....i would be ok if they took it off the market however BECAUSE OF HOMEBREW! theres NOTHING ILLEGAL about it even if SONY dont like it ;)

i mean i dont like the fact that SONY TRIES TO DICTATE MY PSP....anymore than anyone else and i do beleave that it is our right as the owners of the equipment to play homebrew that is LEGAL content and IF U WANT TO HELP WIN THE HOMEBREW WAR......dont support UMD theft......because thats what it is.........your taking money from the mouths of commercial game coders like our own PSMONKEY whom has done SOOOO much for the scene ......in his own spare time he has botherd to do what he does for nintendo all day just to make sure you can enjoy the benefets of HOMEBREW so lets not f*ck it up for everyone.....lets KEEP IT REAL guys IM ALL ABOUT INSTANT BANDS AT THE HINT OF ISO......i mean there are NO good exuses to put MY FAV PSP NEWS SITE IN DANGER OF CLOSING DOWN :(

Do you own turrican, no.
Did you even bother to check with who own's the image/game rights for image's/game engine's used (this aplies to sprite ripping too) for "LEGAl HOMEBREW", no and i bet it dident cross your mind either.
If you cant see why sony puts a stop to any ilegal software running on there systems then expect to see the psp die pretty quickly.

[carpy]

Your all over-looking what I've already stated. Just because its legal doesn't make it okay.

~ We don't share any commercial roms on this site. Nether do we share and illegal PSP ISO's. Everyone should understand that.

~ Those loaders are legal sure enough, but we'd prefer not allow discussion or post news about them. We have many reasons for this rule. We don't want a community full of pirates and ISO loaders do far too much damage to the PSP. ISO loaders hurt the image of our site and they hurt the image of the PSP community as a whole (which is only trying to gain legitimacy). The coders behind them aren't doing anyone favours in the long run.

Right. So you just ban everyone who posts the word ISO and stick your fingers in your ears and pretend it doesn't exist. Even though it's been proven time and again in this thread that there are legitimate LEGAL benefits to DevHook's ISO loading feature.

So when the PSP is officially declared dead this time next year, not because of piracy, but because of a tiny, underwhelming software library and too much competition from the big home consoles and the DS, and they start pulling UMD games off the shelves because they just aren't selling - what do you think you're going to do with you obsolete Sony PSBrick?

The only thing I hate more than people who intentionally pirate current, instore games - are people who download them, and then run around like a saint claiming they don't and passsing judgement on others who do.

Giant bunch of hypocrites, the lot of you.

[F9zDark]

Your all over-looking what I've already stated. Just because its legal doesn't make it okay.

If it wasn't ok, it wouldn't be legal in the first place. There is nothing wrong with making A SINGLE backup of a UMD for personal use. Hell, many computer games include that in its EULA, specifically allowing the end user to creat ONE backup of the game, in the event that the CD should become damaged.



Those loaders are legal sure enough, but we'd prefer not allow discussion or post news about them. We have many reasons for this rule. We don't want a community full of pirates and ISO loaders do far too much damage to the PSP. ISO loaders hurt the image of our site and they hurt the image of the PSP community as a whole (which is only trying to gain legitimacy). The coders behind them aren't doing anyone favours in the long run.

I suppose I didn't give that point much thought in the past. As the old saying goes, "You are who you keep." I guess sooner or later all this talk of ISOs, even if they are about software and not the ISOs themselves, would create enough hits on Yahoo when typing in 'PSP ISO' that pirates would eventually set up shop here.

Since that is probably what would happen, I suppose the best course of action is to just stick to what you have done. It's worked well enough thus far.

But then again, software like DevHook, which has features that benefit the community should still have a place on the homepage. Simply keeping the fact that it can run ISOs underwraps would be sufficient enough to keep pirates at bay I believe.

[F9zDark]

Right. So you just ban everyone who posts the word ISO and stick your fingers in your ears and pretend it doesn't exist. Even though it's been proven time and again in this thread that there are legitimate LEGAL benefits to DevHook's ISO loading feature.

So when the PSP is officially declared dead this time next year, not because of piracy, but because of a tiny, underwhelming software library and too much competition from the big home consoles and the DS, and they start pulling UMD games off the shelves because they just aren't selling - what do you think you're going to do with you obsolete Sony PSBrick?

The only thing I hate more than people who intentionally pirate current, instore games - are people who download them, and then run around like a saint claiming they don't and passsing judgement on others who do.

Giant bunch of hypocrites, the lot of you.

First off, the PSP won't be dead. Sony would not pull the plug on the PSP, especially since its doing pretty well for Sony's first shot into the handheld market. Sure the DS is selling more, but think of the target audience for the DS. 7-16 year olds, I'd say.

Given that audience its no surprise the DS is outselling the PSP in some countries. How many families out there with 3 or 4 children, who all need to have their own DS?

The benefits of the PSP surely don't warrant buying one for a 7 year old...

[carpy]

First off, the PSP won't be dead. Sony would not pull the plug on the PSP, especially since its doing pretty well for Sony's first shot into the handheld market. Sure the DS is selling more, but think of the target audience for the DS. 7-16 year olds, I'd say.

Given that audience its no surprise the DS is outselling the PSP in some countries. How many families out there with 3 or 4 children, who all need to have their own DS?

The benefits of the PSP surely don't warrant buying one for a 7 year old...

I hope for all of our sakes, you're right.

[jwilds73]

We are guests on this site is it really so much to ask that we respect the rules of this site regardless if we agree with them or not? We all have the choice to go elsewhere or create our own sites if we choose to discuss whatever we want. However as a guest in these people's home I will respect their rules. I suppose if you went to a friends for dinner and they required you to take your shoes off at the door you'ld get all offended and rude and say "wtf I don't take my shoes off at the door in my own house why the hell should I take them off at yours?" Any reasonable and respectable person would respect their friends wishes while in their home. This place is no different, grow up children.

[F9zDark]

We are guests on this site is it really so much to ask that we respect the rules of this site regardless if we agree with them or not? We all have the choice to go elsewhere or create our own sites if we choose to discuss whatever we want. However as a guest in these people's home I will respect their rules. I suppose if you went to a friends for dinner and they required you to take your shoes off at the door you'ld get all offended and rude and say "wtf I don't take my shoes off at the door in my own house why the hell should I take them off at yours?" Any reasonable and respectable person would respect their friends wishes while in their home. This place is no different, grow up children.

I respect their rules and I follow them as best I can.

But this topic was initiated by a staff member, to discuss and debate the legality of the issues:

ISOs
Custom Firmware

I really don't see how 'we are being like children' by sharing our opinions when we have been asked to. Yeah there have been many posters in this topic that have acted childish. But don't brandish all of us as children because we wish to speak our mind, which for some of us, goes against the rules.

[pspman354]

8pilojl

[Cap'n 1time]

We are guests on this site is it really so much to ask that we respect the rules of this site regardless if we agree with them or not? We all have the choice to go elsewhere or create our own sites if we choose to discuss whatever we want. However as a guest in these people's home I will respect their rules. I suppose if you went to a friends for dinner and they required you to take your shoes off at the door you'ld get all offended and rude and say "wtf I don't take my shoes off at the door in my own house why the hell should I take them off at yours?" Any reasonable and respectable person would respect their friends wishes while in their home. This place is no different, grow up children.

you win.


I respect their rules and I follow them as best I can.

But this topic was initiated by a staff member, to discuss and debate the legality of the issues:

ISOs
Custom Firmware

I really don't see how 'we are being like children' by sharing our opinions when we have been asked to. Yeah there have been many posters in this topic that have acted childish. But don't brandish all of us as children because we wish to speak our mind, which for some of us, goes against the rules.

This topic was probably created for you all to discuss, and I would say that a large majority of you arnt exactly acting like children.

A large sum of you seem to think that ISO's have a legit use, and it is possible that you do... however I would say that a much larger group of people are warezy ass monkeys who go around dling illegal stuff, wasting bandwith and killing the internet. It is these people that we are preventing from making a home in our site. The slightest mention of an ISO makes these people cream their pants and.. we at DCemu find the creaming of ones pants over illegal software to be disgusting.

This knowledge can surely be used for good, but sadly it can also be used for evil.. We find its best just to ban discussion of ISO's all together.

As for custom firmwares... it seems to me currently they are illegal... however the second they post modified sony files on our site is the second they get banned. Current meathods of hacked firmwares (to my knowledge) can be compared to the IPS patch of yesteryears rom hacks and translations.. these are perfectly legal.

[acn010]

this sucks big time >XP

[Kaiser]

Right. So you just ban everyone who posts the word ISO and stick your fingers in your ears and pretend it doesn't exist. Even though it's been proven time and again in this thread that there are legitimate LEGAL benefits to DevHook's ISO loading feature.

LOL

We'd never ban someone for mention the word ISO. The legal benefits it may have do not justify the obvious illegal one. Backing up your own UMD? Please. You know as well as I do that allowing such discussion would benefit piracy more then anything.


So when the PSP is officially declared dead this time next year, not because of piracy, but because of a tiny, underwhelming software library and too much competition from the big home consoles and the DS, and they start pulling UMD games off the shelves because they just aren't selling - what do you think you're going to do with you obsolete Sony PSBrick?

More homebrew of course. Piracy may not be the sole reason the PSP's death looks so plausible at the moment but it certaainly helps. Thats a very weak argument.


The only thing I hate more than people who intentionally pirate current, instore games - are people who download them, and then run around like a saint claiming they don't and passsing judgement on others who do.

Giant bunch of hypocrites, the lot of you.

You assume too much. Your in the wrong forum if you think we're a bunch of lyers and thieves.

[dtothabreezy]

kaiser strikes againi aplluade you !clap clap! i wana know why custom firmwareing would be illegal now devhook on the other is sorta but not really its not takin ne profit from sony except for the ice oos of devhook homebrew has acctually helped the psp sell i see pepole all the time on hear with 2 psp what are they compling about:confused: o and i defintely dont want the psp to die becuz i see so much pottiential thats not being done but i see in home brew what pottential thier is so its sorta a duble edge sord what am i blab in about :D

[Cap'n 1time]

kaiser strikes againi aplluade you !clap clap! i wana know why custom firmwareing would be illegal now devhook on the other is sorta but not really its not takin ne profit from sony except for the ice oos of devhook homebrew has acctually helped the psp sell i see pepole all the time on hear with 2 psp what are they compling about:confused: o and i defintely dont want the psp to die becuz i see so much pottiential thats not being done but i see in home brew what pottential thier is so its sorta a duble edge sord what am i blab in about :D

because its a violation of IP... and companies get bitchy about their intelectual property. Posting modified content is completely illegal. google Tecmo and the Ninja Hackers for proof of that.

[borikua_rocks]

Ok, old games (like NES) aren't new and the companies making them aren't making money off them. But there is still a big market for these games.

If I were to download a PSP iso, Gamestop or Ebgames wouldn't get my money from selling me this game.
If I were to download Super Mario Bros. and use it on a PSP emulator (and I don't own this game) then Gamestop or Ebgames won't get my money from selling me this game.

Roms and PSP isos are pretty much the same, so stop tricking yourself into thinking isos are this horrible thing.

Emulators could be considered illegal since some use bios. How many of you actually own a Neo Geo or Neo Geo CD?

There are so many advantages to using isos rather than UMDs.
You are soooo wrong on this, im sorry. But Nintendo ALWAYS re-releases its old properties. I mean they re-release dozens of SNES games on the Nintendo DS/GBA all the time. Even classic games from the NES era have seen new life on the portable system. Hell their Nintendo Wii will offer us their entire library of Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64 and even third party games like SEGa for download. Research before trying to prove a point.