Hombrew being sold on Ebay!

[Darksaviour69]

I have started this topic to list auctions on ebay that are selling homebrew games on ebay, so we can warn any one that bids on it that they are being ripped off!

first BOR
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=62053&item=8155963 621&rd=1&ssPageName=WD2V

Bad sellers:
eastcoastindustries (http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=eastcoastindustr ies&iid=8155963621&frm=284)

theon711 (http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=theon711&iid=815 6211086&frm=284)



the idea is that we can watch these seller and what they are selling.
So the bider will be warned about being ripped of and they will also know about the DC scene too!

[GPF]

he's also selling warez version of commercial dreamcast games and many dreamcast emulator compilation cdr's :(

[Darksaviour69]

yeah he also has a ebay store!!!! can you report this stuff to ebay?

[Kron]

You can do:

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/contact_inline/results.html?tier0=report_listing.html&tier1=1&tie r2=4&continueButton=Continue+%3E&contactUsJSFilena me=report_listing.js&contactTitle=Report+a+prohibi ted+item+or+listing+policy+violation

Unfortunately ebay are completely crap at resolving these sorts of things, Its seems that the profits are more important to them.

[DCDayDreamer]

Unfortunately ebay are completely crap at resolving these sorts of things, Its seems that the profits are more important to them.

If you can't beat them, join them...

an obscure idea, but what about starting an ebay shop from the site, if there was any staff member that was willing to burn off CDR's with homebrew content along with printing the covers and labels, they could then sell the items at cost price with 'buy it now'. Of course each listed item would have to state that it was a homebrew item, created with a legal dev kit and duplicted on CDR, it could also have a url on the page to link directly here - how's about that for DC homebrew promotion!.

[Darksaviour69]

or how about the other way round!!!

set up a store, have loads of buy its now auctions with price at £100000000 or something stupid. theN in the description have links to were your can download it for free!

[Eric]

well maybe because there is nothing Sega can do about the dreamcast cause its owned by a different person and its not a trademark its franchised by Sammy

[Mental2k]

Eric, sammy and sega are the same damn company now. Do you take silly pills before comin on the forum or somethin? Here dont report the warez yet, wait till i've bought some titles...er... jus kiddin. Or how bout we start an ebay shop and sell homebrew and make a profit, and give it to the developers, we could sell homebrew compendiums, then the homebrew writers would get some reward.

[Cap'n 1time]

Eric, sammy and sega are the same damn company now. Do you take silly pills before comin on the forum or somethin? Here dont report the warez yet, wait till i've bought some titles...er... jus kiddin. Or how bout we start an ebay shop and sell homebrew and make a profit, and give it to the developers, we could sell homebrew compendiums, then the homebrew writers would get some reward.

What about the people that create the dev tools? What about GPL? I dont understand how GPL works, but it would be kind of cool if some vendor created like a "Best Homebrew Of 2k4" Disk with art and whatnot and sold it in bulk on ebay for like <insert reasonable price and your own currancy here>. It could go to websites working closely with the DC scene and the developers. I guess you could call it a *charged donation* and since its a compilation it would be worth not having to go through and make your own sbi.

[milfzor]

re: darksavior....that's a great idea...but it costs money to list stuff on ebay :S

[Mental2k]

I know what you mean about those who create the dev disks 1time, I suppose its best if all just stays free eh. Unless asa you say they release a bulk one at cost rice or whatever.

[obelisk]

this sucks. this kinda crap hppened in the visual pinball community too. :( sad. as well as other many freeware/ homebrew stuff like it.

[Mental2k]

yeah abelisk man, shit happens, shitters make it happen!

[Christuserloeser]

an obscure idea, but what about starting an ebay shop from the site, if there was any staff member that was willing to burn off CDR's with homebrew content along with printing the covers and labels, they could then sell the items at cost price with 'buy it now'. Of course each listed item would have to state that it was a homebrew item, created with a legal dev kit and duplicted on CDR, it could also have a url on the page to link directly here - how's about that for DC homebrew promotion!.

I really like this idea - Count me in :)

[Darksaviour69]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=27236&item=8159119 214&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=sweet-hooligan&iid=8159119214&frm=284

[Mental2k]

but beats of rage was a comercial release wasnt it? surely he's allowed to sell that on, providing he's not selling a botleg copy?

[Darksaviour69]

no, Beats of Rage is freeware, very good Freeware, have you not tried it yet Mental2k, you should get the BOR image at dcevo, it has the original a 4 other mods on one disk

[curt_grymala]

No, Beats of Rage was never released commercially. That is, and always was, completely freeware. They never would have released it commercially, because it contains copyrighted sprites and backgrounds from commercial games.

They have gone back and forth on whether or not to release AotB commercially whenever it comes out, but I'm pretty sure they finally decided to release it completely as freeware, and look into the possibility of releasing novelty discs commercially (discs that will contain much more than just the game) to people that are interested.

[Mental2k]

Ah right oh. no, probs.

[Christuserloeser]

I'm pretty sure they finally decided to release it completely as freeware, and look into the possibility of releasing novelty discs commercially (discs that will contain much more than just the game) to people that are interested.

asupikku and me had a very long and intense discussion over at the original Senile forum (the first one, not Segaforums) and I would be glad if the ladies and gents over at Senile decide to go with the GOAT store for a DC special edition :)

[Darksaviour69]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=27236&item=8160784 249&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

this guy is reallying starting to any me, hes selling freeware for £12, and people are buying it!

[Mental2k]

Crap I know what was wrong, I was think feet of fury instead of beats of rage. *Yeah I have beats of rage. I quite enjoyed it. I would download some mods but the main problem is I'm runnin a 56k. Maybe I'll try some of the mods soon.

Has anyone tried telling the buyers its freeware?

[DreamDogg]

I am no lawyer, but I see two legal questions in this BOR marketing/phenomenon/issue:

1. The legality of distributing a game with nonlicensed copyrighted sprites and visual elements.

2. The legality of selling these game discs on eBay.

I think #1 is probably legal and acceptable in many circumstances, or at least the big software companies don't seem to care. The original copyright holders may even be pleased to receive the free advertising (and goodwill) which accompanies this kind of fan-based activity.

However, #2 seems more dubious. The eBay seller who has started selling BOR mods owns neither the original BOR mod, the value-added disc jackets, nor the original SNK/Capcom sprite graphics...

I'm not saying the eBay merchant doesn't add value. He most certainly DOES add value -- by going through the trouble of burning the discs, printing the disc jackets, buying the jewel cases, marketing and selling his product and shipping the finished good. In fact, I do respect his industry. He's filling a market niche. However, the underlying intellectual property is not his own, so his position is questionable.

I think the big lesson here is that there is a market niche for homebrew dreamcast software discs. I encourage everyone to find ways satisfy a market niche if they can imagine a way to do so legally.

[Mental2k]

Its not just illegal its immoral also. Why not post a link that will allow people to know where to download it.

[Darksaviour69]

i have contacted every bider, but the either don't respond or say somethink like e.g.
Thank you for letting me know its a shame i bid on it but the file is very big and i only have a 56k modem but i have a friend who has broadband so i have asked him to download it for me if he can not then my bid is still ok cheers from chris thanks

another thing that annoys me is that it not even his own cover, its someone elses work, he has just downloaded it and printed it!

[Mental2k]

yeah im with them on the 56k modem, thats the reason i would get it, if i did, but then I can always use DAP so i know i can get it eventually, so thats ok. I wonder if he's actually making much profit on it though?

[Mental2k]

has anyone tried emailing him yet?

[Darksaviour69]

I wonder if he's actually making much profit on it though

well let see , cd cost about 20p each, case lets say 50, printing the over and cd label lets say a very expencive £1 so that total cost £1.70 and the sold the last one for £10.50 and looking to sell this one for £12 and p&p is £2.00 - Royal Mail 1st Class Standard (Within United Kingdom) even thought or games i have bought on ebay that has Royal Mail 1st Class Standard at £1.25

so yeah hes making £8-£10 profit per cd, that good!


has anyone tried emailing him yet?

whats the point? he knows what he is doing it wrong, there is nothing we can do because we are no Sony or MS, ebay does not care!

[Mental2k]

Yeah I guess, £8-£10 is excessive.

[Darksaviour69]

he sold BOR for £32!!!!!!! this is getting beyond a joke now >:(

[Mental2k]

ffs that is outaline, when peeps good enough to give their time to make these, this guy needs some serious spammage methinks, may deter him. We could post his email addy, or would that be immoral?

[Darksaviour69]

more:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=27236&item=8162611 279&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=27236&item=8163121 507&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

bor seems to be so "rare" that is now being sold once a week on ebay!

[Mental2k]

yeah but what about spamming him?

We could write a php page that mails him whenever you go onto it, then sign up for a free lycos account annonimously then spam him when he does it.

Gettin email addressses shouldnt be that hard either....

[Mental2k]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=27236&item=8167050 140&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=27236&item=8167136 697&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
and another two

[DreamDogg]

Competition is the answer. As more merchants sell such "value-added" game packages on eBay, the consumer will quickly realize the game is not "rare," but in fact abundant. Prices will plummet. That's the free market system -- it works great.

I too, make free games. If a merchant can profitably sell such free software, then I say PLEASE go ahead and do it. Because it cultivates interest, grows the distribution network and widens the audience of free software. There are many merchants such as this one, who sell Linux CD's. The Linux OS is free, but the service is really valuable to those who cannot burn CDs. It is a legitimate and needed service.

As long as the distributor doesn't make false claims, or try to appropriate the intellectual property, or use the software illegally, that is.

[quzar]

Competition is the answer. As more merchants sell such "value-added" game packages on eBay, the consumer will quickly realize the game is not "rare," but in fact abundant. Prices will plummet. That's the free market system -- it works great.

I too, make free games. If a merchant can profitably sell such free software, then I say PLEASE go ahead and do it. Because it cultivates interest, grows the distribution network and widens the audience of free software. There are many merchants such as this one, who sell Linux CD's. The Linux OS is free, but the service is really valuable to those who cannot burn CDs. It is a legitimate and needed service.

As long as the distributor doesn't make false claims, or try to appropriate the intellectual property, or use the software illegally, that is.





Most homebrews are released under a license that prohibits the sale of them without permission.

[Mental2k]

You'd have to be a bit of an asshole to be doin it anyway, i mean, big corps they're makin plenty of money on it, and u dont feel so bad at rippin some of them off, but these guys do it for our enjoyment in their spare time. You gotta respect that.

[DreamDogg]

This particular merchant who sells the BOR Mods is probably violating the license, although I do not know for sure. He calls the game "rare," which is inaccurate; however, it is RARE when considering that nobody else sells a pre-burned, packaged BOR disc.

Although this merchant behaves badly, I think it would be beneficial for a larger number of *responsible* DC disc merchants enter the marketplace, because that will introduce more people to the DC Homebrew scene.

As more merchants smell profit, and sell more games, it will energize the entire scene.

[quzar]

This particular merchant who sells the BOR Mods is probably violating the license, although I do not know for sure. He calls the game "rare," which is inaccurate; however, it is RARE when considering that nobody else sells a pre-burned, packaged BOR disc.

Although this merchant behaves badly, I think it would be beneficial for a larger number of *responsible* DC disc merchants enter the marketplace, because that will introduce more people to the DC Homebrew scene.

As more merchants smell profit, and sell more games, it will energize the entire scene.


The point is that people shouldn't be spending money on something that they could get for free.

If the merchent made a point to say that it was only as a service to have a professional-looking copy, then that would be different, but they make it seem as if its not something that could easily be gotten.

[ron]

The people who sells homebrew at any auction page can be perfectly compared with rubbish, and should be prosecuted as criminals. Can't believe that someone can do that. ???

[ptr.exe]

£32 for BoR, when you can get it for FREE

thats ridiculous, but most people that buy DC games off eBay either know of the homebrew scene, or are part of it. The buyers must know what their paying for is freeware because to pay £32 you must be pretty into the DC scene.

Slightly off topic, and possibly not allowed - theres a guy selling Half-Life for DC as far as i know this wasnt released because of problems days before release. So obviously hes downloading it , does anyone know where the download of this is? ive searched but failed *:'(

[WHurricane16]

You know it's someone in the scene is the one selling this, don't you? That's the saddest part.

[DCDayDreamer]

Slightly off topic, and possibly not allowed - theres a guy selling Half-Life for DC as far as i know this wasnt released because of problems days before release. So obviously hes downloading it , does anyone know where the download of this is? ive searched but failed

No can do, that's an unofficial release of a commercial game, if we knew of a download we would never post a link to it. It is true however that it's been sold on ebay for some time now, even reporting it doesn't do much good because it pops up somewhere else via a different seller.


You know it's someone in the scene is the one selling this, don't you? That's the saddest part.

Are you serious?, if that's true maybe you should name and shame them. There are some people within the scene however that are considering selling a huge collection of BOR plus mods at cost, meaning about £2 for a CDR packed with as much stuff that'll fit on there (P+P is included for your £2). This is being considered to counter such illegal profiteering from freeware games.

[DreamDogg]

There are some people within the scene however that are considering selling a huge collection of BOR plus mods at cost, meaning about £2 for a CDR packed with as much stuff that'll fit on there (P+P is included for your £2). This is being considered to counter such illegal profiteering from freeware games.
Such an enterprise would be quite welcome, as it would benefit many, who, like myself, cannot burn .CDI's (Few Linux distros offer easy .CDI burning capability.)

Legal, reasonably-priced Homebrew CDs will serve a real market niche, and invigorate the whole DC scene.
;D

[curt_grymala]

Such an enterprise would be quite welcome, as it would benefit many, who, like myself, cannot burn .CDI's (Few Linux distros offer easy .CDI burning capability.)

Legal, reasonably-priced Homebrew CDs will serve a real market niche, and invigorate the whole DC scene.
;D

It is a pretty solid idea.

I wish there were more ways to burn this stuff using Linux. I am working more and more in Linux, but I still have to switch back over to Windows whenever I want to burn anything for the DC. Anyway - I'm meandering off topic again.

If someone were to make a compilation disc and sell it on Ebay, what mods do people think should be on there?

[DreamDogg]

I wish there were more ways to burn this stuff using Linux. *I am working more and more in Linux, but I still have to switch back over to Windows whenever I want to burn anything for the DC. *
I can't find any surefire ways to burn .CDI images under Linux. Although there are tutorials to use cdirip in conjunction with cdrecord, the process didn't work for my burner/computer configuration.

CDrecord for Linux is complex, it comes in many different forked versions which may not work the same way. It's very hit-and-miss.


If someone were to make a compilation disc and sell it on Ebay, what mods do people think should be on there?
I'd like to see a BOR compo cd. You could poll site visitors to see which BOR Mods are most widely acclaimed.

Another exciting thought is to publish the Dream Coding Grand Prix 2005 Finalists on a single playable CD.

[WHurricane16]

Are you serious?, if that's true maybe you should name and shame them.

I'm not saying I know who it is, or that I right/wrong. *It could have been a "newb" who asked how to burn X, Y, and Z, or it's a scene veteran. *Who's to say a scene veteran couldn't have done this? *We all have so many aliases on the internet. Like me, I have WHurricane16, Storminator16, my real name, another private name, and at work I have 3 e-mail addresses to go along with my 4 personal e-mail addresses. This is one of the problems I find with the internet: really, if someone wants to hide they can hide behind a lie or two.

[Christuserloeser]

I'd like to see a BOR compo cd. You could poll site visitors to see which BOR Mods are most widely acclaimed.
Another exciting thought is to publish the Dream Coding Grand Prix 2005 Finalists on a single playable CD.

Check http://www.dcevolution.net - We've thought about the same projects and are working on them *- some of them will be released these days. A BoR Collection with the first finished mods is already available.

[ptr.exe]

well it has to be someone in the scene so they've probably posted on here before, i think it's more likely a newb rather than a veteran as there are loads of them on these boards (including myself) and someone whos been here a while woud probably have at least linked to one of these sites as they'd want more people on the scene. Doesnt really matter that much as they wont be found, as posted by storminator its too easy for them to 'hide'

[Albatross]

I know its not Homebrew but - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38614&item=8172444 181&rd=1

[Saoshyant]

Back to the topic please, this is quite disgusting.

1) Do report to ebay nonetheless, it may prevent future problems like this if everyone complains.

2) Inform everyone bidding that that and further like those are a rip-off

3) Report the seller's page to www.theesa.com

4) Mental2k SPAM the guy to death!

5) If the authors do want to sell a compilation of BOR or something, do that only on author's site for a cheap price

This is what can be called my "2 cents", you don't follow it, I will.

[ptr.exe]

I know its not Homebrew but - *http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38614&item=8172444 181&rd=1

I was actually just about to post that link.

Theres way more emu's being sold on eBay than homebrew, those DreamSNES CDs are everywhere, but when DreamSNES boots up it says 'if you paid for this disk you were cheated, ask the perosn who sold you this disk to give you your money back' why wouldnt people leave bad feedback if they've seen that??

And its more likely that eBay will deal with those selling commercial roms as it definately is illegal.

[ptr.exe]

Hey DarkSavior, what happened to doing something about this? this topic is pretty much dead, and yet there are still loads of homebrew on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=27236&item=8173865 025&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

dont know how to post a clicky link so just copied and pasted :)

[Darksaviour69]

not much we can do, only contact the bidders and tell them they are being ripped off :-/

[WHurricane16]

Really, I wouldn't worry too much about this. *If someone wants to be ripped off, let them get ripped off. *Now if licenses are being broken somewhere, let the person who wrote the software handle it.

There isn't much anyone can do in these situations. * Just let it go. *This is going to happen now until the end of time. *I'm sure some of you download copyrighted movies, music, and games.....so who are you to criticize, no? A friend of mine even downloaded a movie at work the other day, scaring the pooh out of me. Course, you (who ever was just offeneded) isn't the topic of this thread so I apologize to offending anyone.

I'm not trying to be a tosser, but this is real life.

[Mental2k]

maybe its storminator burning it ;)

[ptr.exe]

maybe its storminator burning it ;)

hmm... maybe some interogation is in order lol.