The Legalitys of Firmware Updating

[wraggster]

Theres discussion around the PSP Scene about the Legalitys of Firmware Updating, heres what HeyU (http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=psp&thread.id=2591476&view=by_date_ascending&page=1) posted on the official Sony forums:


Well, it seems I may be on to something. I was thinking, that since a minor may not enter into a contract, which is what an update is, sony would have to resore it to its original condition if a minor updated it. Now the problem is, how do you prove that a minor updated it? It sux, because I would definately pull this on them if I could prove I updated. Any thoughts, I mean someone should video tape themself with their Photo ID in the pic, and update, thenget sony in court and see if they would comply. They would have to...... Its The Law!!!

Thoughts on this ?

[Larry]

I'd like to see it done as well. I wouldn't count on it, Sony would no doubt settle for the price of the PSP, or do just that, restore it to its former firmware.

Because it would cost so much to hire lawyers and what not to take them into court. It would just get brushed asside.

"If you got a good atterny, you've got the best legal system in the world."

[Makaveli777]

LOL!!! That would be funny. Then no more updates because of the trouble in court.

[CoderX]

:rolleyes: The sony contract is in place simply to make sure you dont break sony's lame rules.

:confused: Where you got the idea that sony is legily required to downgrade a psp is beond me. Although if a minor updates your psp, you now are not required to flow that contract as it is now void.

Sony is not legialy required to downgrade any psp, and it would not hold up in cort :(, altought i wish it would work

[pkmaximum]

Seems like way to much trouble to get a firmware back....

[BrooksyX]

Looks like sony better release an official 1.5 donwgrader that works on any psp. ;) (that would be the day)

[Broadus]

Sony would get some slick lawyer to turn everything around against whoever might be pulling some kind of lawsuit.
"Why would you want to downgrade? After all, don't updates improve your device? Hmmm? Hmmm hmmm HMMM?? Why am I talking about Chewbacca?"

[bullhead]

The money spent on the lawsuit would be better spent in paying someone to make you a downdater. It would probably be faster that way.

[.:}<3\/!}\{:.]

LOL......and yeah no more updates would be cool!!!
i like to see the day when all psp users are on 1.5.

[AtariFreek]

That would never hold up in court.

[Sauron96]

Sony would get some slick lawyer to turn everything around against whoever might be pulling some kind of lawsuit.
"Why would you want to downgrade? After all, don't updates improve your device? Hmmm? Hmmm hmmm HMMM?? Why am I talking about Chewbacca?"

If wookies do not live on Endor you must acquit, thank you the defense rests

:D

[Carl_Ripken]

as far as legality goes sony could probably just purchase some new laws. and it does seem like alot of trouble to prove the firmware was updated you could track the invoice or something to that effect and see what firmware was shipped with the unit. i mean technically if you have the original sales recipt or box to prove this the purchase date or product serial would indicate time of manufacturing. also indicating which firmwares were being shipped with the units. if we want to make a fuss out of this sony could go as far as saying that adults need to purchase and or update the units and anyone under 18 would be in violation of the contract. and ultimately the parent is responsible. Would any of this hold in court maybe who's brave enough to find out?

[Cloudhunter]

That would never hold up in court.

You said it best. A quote from me on the source:


I actually think this is a valid point, but the thing is, would anyone's parents want to take Sony to court over just a PSP? It would also show that there was intent to update, even though you technically can't accept the agreement.

Nice try, but I doubt anyone will have the resources... And the argument is shady at best.

Cloudy

[pob-pnuk]

i would not want no more updates as then your psp couldnt be improved unless they release a new psp console
and anyway sony doesnt lose in court

[Carl_Ripken]

its a case of the rights of the consumer being violated
in such a minor way that one case wouldn't do it. there would have to be a parents group protecting the rights of thier children.

[Carl_Ripken]

yeah a legal battle with sony almost always end out of court or not at all.can you really go toe to toe with a billion dollar corporation? again its a questions or rights not money but money holds sway in any court look at OJ a poor example but money and time mostly the jury tired of being in court....

[aries2k4]

Ya, just look at Sony´s tactics against Lik Sang.

[Bladestorm]

Alright people, first you have to understand that a "Law" is nothing more than a bureaucrats opinion backed by a gun. Now, updating firmware is in no way a contract. A valid contract requires four elements, in no particular order they are an "offer", "acceptance", "consideration", and a "meeting of the minds".

[samthegreat68]

or just dont update in the first place... DUH!

[The_Ultimate_Eggman]

$$$ONY's legal bpoys will have u stiched up so tightly by the time its resolved u wouldnt be a minor lol.Would like to see somebody try this stance tho.

[Ari]

It's more of an EULA than a contract, really. So should we require anybody that makes software with an EULA to uninstall it from our computers?

[mavsman4457]

News has been pretty slow lately but I didn't think it would come to this.

[emuking]

we would never have a case to begin with, once you agree to update its your fault, thats why you dont upgrade to a higher firmware

[emuking]

damn it is a slow news day :(

[The_Ultimate_Eggman]

News has been pretty slow lately but I didn't think it would come to this.
Lol well we could disscuss the finer points of stamp collecting or flower aranging if u wish.

[MUDD]

damn it man i swore off masterbation starting today
,there goes that idea ,this is so retarded and would be
tossed out.i watch judge judy so i would know

anyone else want legal advice just pm me

[Carl_Ripken]

no you dont need to agree to EULA simply boot past it with a disk go into pc bios set to boot from disc and wallah no user agreement.which is a good point where is the end-user agreementon psp their is none just like any other console you have to read the manual which is full of disclaimer state no responsibility for misuse.not to derail or anything but i thought we were having a serious discussion here. just because one person comes up with a clever way to work around the law does not mean he's a lawyer or correct. so for actual real info get a free consultation from a lawyer. what does masterbation have to with any of this?

[Basil Zero]

:rolleyes: The sony contract is in place simply to make sure you dont break sony's lame rules.

:confused: Where you got the idea that sony is legily required to downgrade a psp is beond me. Although if a minor updates your psp, you now are not required to flow that contract as it is now void.

Sony is not legialy required to downgrade any psp, and it would not hold up in cort :(, altought i wish it would work

i agree with you 100 percent, couldnt of said it better myself

[Emeriastone]

I think you're just trying to make something out of nothing.

[scarph]

News has been pretty slow lately but I didn't think it would come to this.

agreed
although ill probably get banned for insulting the god on earth wraggster

[YourStillWithMe]

mavsman4457-Also agreed.

Wragg-stop releasing dumb and pointless news. Don't you have better things to do with your time? No offence; but seriously, step it up.

[mavsman4457]

It's not that it shouldn't be said and that it's a stupid point but I just don't think it is worthy of the front page. And if nothing is worthy of the front page then I'd just rather see interesting news from yesterday.

[xy00gt]

Actually Sony's slick lawyers have lost a case here in Australia. Trying to make modchips illegal when they were both illegal and legal at the same time. Then they lost making modchips legal for all:D

Also here we were legally to backup our copies of music ect for mp3 player and this was only just at the end of last year.

[Jmax]

It would work once, then they would change the contract.

[Psphreak]

The scene can be slow at times but these frontpage "news" I would expect from QJ.net NOT Dcemu.

[tragedie]

Well I'm glad our younger members are no longer waving their signs of "LOL meh no j0b lollerskates 1.5!!!11[sic]"

You know, the games that you can actually buy aren't that bad...

Anyway, why are we even posting in such a ridiculous thread?

[crypysmoker]

I think it has to be some spolied kid that gets his way all thetime that came up with this.

I mean, Knowing that you are going into a contract as a minor basiclly defeats the purpose of this. Purposly doing it on video would show any court that you had the metality to know what you were doing thus treating you liek and adult.

Spoile dkids think they can whine about anythign and get away with it

[meanguns]

:rolleyes: The sony contract is in place simply to make sure you dont break sony's lame rules.

:confused: Where you got the idea that sony is legily required to downgrade a psp is beond me. Although if a minor updates your psp, you now are not required to flow that contract as it is now void.

Sony is not legialy required to downgrade any psp, and it would not hold up in cort :(, altought i wish it would work

In reality, Sony would have to honor it because, 1) the US court system won't let sony tell them what to do! and 2) Sony puts updates on every UMD a minor lets say a 6 year old gets hold of your psp does not matter who's child it is they did not know better as they are just learning how to use the device they hit the upgrade button then manage to upgrade the PSP they just don't understand all that mombo jumbo and UPGRADE the device accidently well because sony put the upgrade on the disk and B) force children to upgrade it before playing a game when there is no reason behind the upgrade that pertains to the game they are now responsible to what happens to that PSP lets say your battery accidently falls out as your upgrading because of too many drops on the unit the batter cover is defective because the tabs are broken! It's because of sony's faulty manufacturing that the battery came loose and fell out during an upgrade, who is at fault you or sony? The correct answer and the answer the judge would give is simply this, The reason behind this upgrade is invalid because, the device is made to play games the fact that the battery fell out of the device is not the fault of the user but the fault of the manufacturer of this device. The justice would find it odd that the updates have nothing to do with playing games on the device and are a futile attempt to control the use of the device the judgement would go to the plaintiff and he my also be awarded court costs, attorney's fees and punitive damages!

[ICE]

if your a minor just video tape yourself during an update and send the tape and your psp to sony demanding a 1.5.

[Cloudhunter]

if your a minor just video tape yourself during an update and send the tape and your psp to sony demanding a 1.5.Yeah, and see what you get in return, nothing. Tq all those people who wonder at the value of this news post: 1. It has a point and 2. Is anyone forcing you to read this? Do you have to pay for this site? No, so if you have any problems, keep on topic, and discuss your concerns in private if need be. Just my thoughts :p

Cloudy

[MUDD]

i swore of ciggs and coffee today ,there goes that

didnt i just say yesterday that this wouldnt hold in court ,i watch judge mathis ppl im telling you i know stuffs like this ,ppls come to me all the time for legality advice ,its like a calling or something like superhero powers

[DPyro]

Some important info from the agreement that everyone should read.

"This User Agreement can be accepted only by an adult 18 years or older. By accepting the User Agreement, you affirm that you are an adult 18 years or older and you are accepting this User Agreement on your own behalf or on behalf of anyone that you allow to use your account, including, if applicable, your minor child or children."

"No warranty is given for the quality, functionality, availability or performance of the content or this site. SCEI reserves the right to modify or withdraw the content at any time. To the fullest extent permitted by law, SCEI excludes all liability for any loss of data, damage caused to your software or hardware, and any other loss or damage suffered by you or any third party, whether direct, indirect, incidental or consequential and however arising, as a result of downloading content to your PSP® system."

[mnuhaily22]

HAHA, good stuff, but it would be cheaper to just buy a 1.5 from ebay or wherever else.

[Juanton3790]

If this happens den sony will eventually stop PSP support. If u upgrade den live wit it, wait 4 a downgrader and stop upgradin. Stop Bitchinn

[F9zDark]

Alright people, first you have to understand that a "Law" is nothing more than a bureaucrats opinion backed by a gun. Now, updating firmware is in no way a contract. A valid contract requires four elements, in no particular order they are an "offer", "acceptance", "consideration", and a "meeting of the minds".

The End User License Agreement is a contract. In the US these contracts are legal, however I have heard that in some countries these are not legal.

But as with any contract, it is the USER who needs to read it carefully before agreeing to it. In fact, just owning the PSP and being underage is a 'breach of contract' since there is the EULA in the manual. So, by purchasing a PSP, the minor relinquishes any rights he/she would have had in court since they have already 'agreed' to a legally binding contract when they are not of legal age.

In fact, agreeing to a contract where one is not legally allowed falls onto the one who did so (read: the minor committed a crime). NDAs for instance require 18 year olds to sign up, because its a legally binding contract that if, I should decide to tell SOE about Blizzard's new WOW expansion or what have you, I can be taken to court by Blizzard for breach of NDA.

Also, keep in mind, that these contracts don't exist to protect the USER. They exist to protect the COMPANY. If you are underage and download an update and bind yourself illegally to a legal contract, thats your choice. But said contract is there to protect the company's interests, not the user.

*Edit*

To sum it up, this would not work at all in the court system of the US and would be a severe waste of money. Companies like Sony have the power to bankrupt other entities with legal costs alone. Why in God's name would anyone want do such willingly to themselves is beyond all reason and one would seriously get further by buying a 1.5, hiring someone to make a downgrader, etc.

[samthegreat68]

but why would you update your 1.5 just to send it back and get a different one?

thats the dumbest waste of time ever

[Khorney]

"This User Agreement can be accepted only by an adult 18 years or older. By accepting the User Agreement, you affirm that you are an adult 18 years or older that basically means your in the wrong if you are under 18 and upgrade. its like entering an incorrect date of birth to see vids of 15 games on IGN (for example).

that said, it does potentially alienate large chunks of the market if they want to play a game aimed at younger children and its for 2.81, but legally they cant upgrade.

not that anyone reads these =P