Microsoft on PS3's HD Problem

[gunntims0103]

news via gamedaily (http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=14554)

If you bought your HDTV a few years ago, there's a good chance it doesn't support 720p resolution. And unfortunately, if you hook up a PS3 to these TVs, the only image you'll see will be in 480p, not 1080i. Microsoft's Andre Vrignaud believes this may not be fixable either...

As you probably have heard by now, some owners of older HDTV sets have been having trouble getting proper high-def visuals from the PlayStation 3. The PS3 outputs HD visuals for PS3 games in either 720p or 1080p, and if your HDTV does not support 720p, the PS3 won't upscale the picture to 1080i either.

While Sony initially told us that they are working on a fix (and still are apparently) that would come via a firmware patch, the company has since retracted its statement. Worse yet, it's not clear if this problem even is fixable via a patch because the PS3 hardware would appear to lack the necessary scaler.

Posting about his general PS3 impressions on his Microsoft Ozymandias blog Andre Vrignaud, director of technical strategy for Xbox Live, commented, "...it appears there's no internal hardware scaler in the PS3. As reported, it appears the PS3 is unable to output a consistent signal to your TV based upon your desired selection (ie, what your TV supports). This means that while I might want to play Resistance in 1080i, if the game doesn't support it the console drops down to a lower-common denominator of 480p. The game then tells me that if I want to play in the best quality, I need to quit out, go to the dashboard, change the PS3's resolution to 720p, and then relaunch the game. Oh, and when I return from the game, I'm obviously still at 720p, and not the 1080i I'd prefer to navigate the dash with. I experienced this myself and I can tell you it's hugely frustrating."

He continued, "This issue also affects people who have older HDTVs that only support 480i/480p and 1080i (not 720p - this was pretty common with earlier CRT HDTVs). These folks have no way to scale the game's output to 1080i, and are thus forced to play in 480i/p. This smells of the console being rushed to market, and I'm not holding out any hopes for any significant fix. It's bad, and feels like something Sony would have fixed if possible. My guess is the 'fix' they're working on is going to be a bit of streamlining in the dashboard (perhaps a switch to automatically change back to 1080i/p when returning from a game), but the core issue isn't going to be fixed. I hope I'm wrong, though, for the sake of all those folks having problems."

If Vrignaud is correct, and the resolution problem for owners of older HDTVs can't be fixed, then Sony has unfortunately alienated a larger group of people than they might think—people who don't want or can't afford to upgrade to a shiny new HDTV and who might very well put their money into a console from Microsoft and/or Nintendo.

For more of Vrignaud's (somewhat biased) impressions of the PS3 hardware, check out the blog linked above.

[F9zDark]

I still believe Sony should have waited until March for a worldwide launch... Market share loss means very little if the company needs to endure market share loss AND bad reviews and hardware issues...

[jerrt]

they thought they were ready, i'm just confused that they would have overlooked this feature. i mean, just telling it to upscale couldn't be that hard, but then again I dont' really know. [:

[PSPFR3AK]

my HDTV support 1080i so?

[bah]

PSPFR3AK: It may support 1080i, but what the article is saying that if it is an older set (or even some newer ones), it may support only the lower standard (480i/p) and higher standard (1080i), not the middle-range standard of 720p nor 1080 resolution in progressive mode.

Meaning that if the ps3 detects lack of 1080p or 720p support, you'll be stuck with SD res (480i/p)

The I stands for interleaved (only half the image is drawn per refresh: frame 1 defines lines 1,3,5..., frame 2 defines lines 2,4,6...., frame 3 defines 1,3,5..... and so on).
The P is progressive and means every line of video is updated at every refresh (frame of video being displayed to the screen).

The problem is games detecting lack of 1080P support and not switching to 1080i or 720p properly, rather resorting to the lowest res of 480.

[PSPFR3AK]

PSPFR3AK: It may support 1080i, but what the article is saying that if it is an older set (or even some newer ones), it may support only the lower standard (480i/p) and higher standard (1080i), not the middle-range standard of 720p nor 1080 resolution in progressive mode.

Meaning that if the ps3 detects lack of 1080p or 720p support, you'll be stuck with SD res (480i/p)

The I stands for interleaved (only half the image is drawn per refresh: frame 1 defines lines 1,3,5..., frame 2 defines lines 2,4,6...., frame 3 defines 1,3,5..... and so on).
The P is progressive and means every line of video is updated at every refresh (frame of video being displayed to the screen).

The problem is games detecting lack of 1080P support and not switching to 1080i or 720p properly, rather resorting to the lowest res of 480.
the grafix will still be good , no?

[bah]

The graphics will be the same, they just wont be high definition.
Play a PC game at 640x480 then at 1600x1200 and look at the difference.

Higher resolution images show more detail, look crisper and need less anti-aliasing to get rid of jaggies (the power lines in GTA: San Andreas on xbox vs high res on a PC would be a great example).

Im guessing everything is still rendered in the higher res with high res textures and scaled down, so it shouldn't be too bad. Just not HD.

[kwok]

HAHA

Sony truly suck.... Such a simple little issue yet they are mystfied at how to resolve it. Shows the current state of Sony, how disorganised they are and how unknowledgable they are.

I guess this gives an extra reason as to not buying the PS3. Sony should really learn from their competitors, MS and Nintendo. MS can do it no problem... Nintendo, cant be bothered with HD, thus no support, instead spending their time developing an awesome control method.

Is amusing how the PS3 shares the HD compat with Xbox, however an incomplete implementation. And the motion sensor support, "shared" with Nintendo but again a flawed design.

Prehaps they should spend some time innovating, rather than piss poor attempts at copying (Serves them right with all their piracy problems, u pirate others ideas, and others will pirate your games!). I guess sonys move to block importers like Lik-Sang is gonna really bite their asses as noone ends up buying a PS3!

HAHA

[ElRazur]

Before we start jumping on the "OMG GOD SONY THIS, SONY THAT Boat" let us see what they have to say!
Sure, they might have retracted the statement regarding the Patch-fix but im sure they wont just stay mute now that a MS rep is mentioned it.

I mean, if push come to shove, if they cant fix it via a patch, they will just recall the launch ps3s and offer a replacement one.......Whichever way lets us wait and see and not jump to "instant bashing"

[irongiant]

HAHA

Sony truly suck.... Such a simple little issue yet they are mystfied at how to resolve it. Shows the current state of Sony, how disorganised they are and how unknowledgable they are.

I guess this gives an extra reason as to not buying the PS3. Sony should really learn from their competitors, MS and Nintendo. MS can do it no problem... Nintendo, cant be bothered with HD, thus no support, instead spending their time developing an awesome control method.

Is amusing how the PS3 shares the HD compat with Xbox, however an incomplete implementation. And the motion sensor support, "shared" with Nintendo but again a flawed design.

Prehaps they should spend some time innovating, rather than piss poor attempts at copying (Serves them right with all their piracy problems, u pirate others ideas, and others will pirate your games!). I guess sonys move to block importers like Lik-Sang is gonna really bite their asses as noone ends up buying a PS3!

HAHA

Idiots like you give gamers a bad name.

[C0R3F1GHT3R]

once again EVERY console has its problems when it comes out at least the ps3 hasn't been frying like the xbox 360 when it came out. PPL need to shaddap and buy a better tv or lcd for it if they wanna play next-gen.

[ElRazur]

Iirc, this problem dont affect much tvs in europe but mosly the ones in the American market.

[morninghead]

Even if they were to re-call the PS3s and try to give everyone new ones that had that in there it would still take quite some time. They'd have to make a new PS3 with that function. The stuff to updscale isn't in there so it's not a simple answer of re-calling them. They'd have to re-call then make new PS3s specifically designed for that.

[ElRazur]

Even if they were to re-call the PS3s and try to give everyone new ones that had that in there it would still take quite some time. They'd have to make a new PS3 with that function. The stuff to updscale isn't in there so it's not a simple answer of re-calling them. They'd have to re-call then make new PS3s specifically designed for that.

I see what you mean, dont forget that recalling less than a million ps3s (given what the current figures are) and going back to the design board is better than the continous production of the current ps3? Dont you think? (hypothetically speaking off course.)

I dont know for sure if the physical thingy that does the Upscalling and what not is in the ps3 but i would think a company like sony will have a solution very soon - Given the fact that it affects "their major markets" - Japan and america...

[morninghead]

Yeah, I think it would be best if they did that. They keep making the ones they're putting out now, things just won't get better for them for a while.

[PSPFR3AK]

HAHA

Sony truly suck.... Such a simple little issue yet they are mystfied at how to resolve it. Shows the current state of Sony, how disorganised they are and how unknowledgable they are.

I guess this gives an extra reason as to not buying the PS3. Sony should really learn from their competitors, MS and Nintendo. MS can do it no problem... Nintendo, cant be bothered with HD, thus no support, instead spending their time developing an awesome control method.

Is amusing how the PS3 shares the HD compat with Xbox, however an incomplete implementation. And the motion sensor support, "shared" with Nintendo but again a flawed design.

Prehaps they should spend some time innovating, rather than piss poor attempts at copying (Serves them right with all their piracy problems, u pirate others ideas, and others will pirate your games!). I guess sonys move to block importers like Lik-Sang is gonna really bite their asses as noone ends up buying a PS3!

HAHA

Fission Mailed

[iniquitous_beast]

No need for a recall. Sony should fix this in their next hardware revision, though. Of course, they'll tout it as an awesome new feature which they added simply out of niceness.

Remember the scph-5xxxx revision ps2s? Those were the first ps2s that could support 480p dvd movie output, and they appeared pretty late in the big ps2's life.

Cheap "fixes" that are viable:

a) New box with the emboldened phrase: "Now supports 720p and 1080p high definition tv's!!!"

b) Firmware update which will remove the 1080i option.

c) Offer a rebate to anyone who has an incompatible tv by mailing them a "$10 off your next purchase of a sony HDTV!!!" coupon.

d) Publicly denounce 1080i as "not the REAL HD standard anyway".

[ElRazur]

^^^ You sound like you work for sony...lol.

[muffinman]

lol lucky i bought a new hdtv then :)

anyways this will affect the minority of people so im not sure sony will actually do anything about it.

[F9zDark]

Problem is, that minority will then sell their PS3s and buy Xboxes or Wiis. Something that Sony doesn't want.

I'm hoping they can find a software fix, but I doubt it.

[IndianCheese]

Idiots like you give gamers a bad name.

When I looked at your username, I thought it was "ignorant". Wonder why...

This guy had some good points and you have no right (or reasons, for that matter) to say something like this. Prove me wrong and you win.

[ElRazur]

When I looked at your username, I thought it was "ignorant". Wonder why...

This guy had some good points and you have no right (or reasons, for that matter) to say something like this. Prove me wrong and you win.

Please go back and read what the guy said, He made statement which if he was asked to back up will just lead to something he cant. Whatever his valid arguement or point is, it was lost by his "sony bashing stance" and from people's perspective he comes across as another immature fanboy. My view anyway.