Dismal PS3 Launch Forces Sony to Discard Blu Ray

[Elven6]

GadgetNutz's storybreaking reporter, The Bandito, has uncovered a developing story concerning Sony via his network of industry insiders around the Sony camp.

On the heels of various industry reports of the lackluster sales of Sony's new Playstation 3 console up to, during, and beyond the Christmas season, it's no wonder that Sony feels internal pressure to alter it's course to more profitable waters. Obviously, the number one deficit of the new electronic entertainment device is the sheer number of newly introduced technologies, each with it's own seemingly continuous chain of production pitfalls. This same collection of newly deployed technologies directly impacts the pricing, further straining the retail sales of the Playstation 3. Considering that HDDVD technology is moving towards a broader market of consumers, Blu Ray is taking a considerable hit regardless of the Playstation branding.


One doesn't have to pay close attention, or even take a second glance, to see that Sony, as a large corporation, has dropped the ball in it's own court. It has been reported time and time again that Sony has been facing financial difficulties, having to lay off workers, close plants, and refocus parts of their business. What only a few expected, Playstation 3 sales failed to match even the reduced supply during this holiday season. The affect of this has rippled through the major electronics retailers, creating a need to ship stock from store to store, and further impacting what profit margins retailers expected to see from the launch of a major new platform. The slick new Nintendo Wii and the powerhouse Microsoft XBox 360 managed to dominate the market, taking full advantage of the price differential, supply problems, and even the imagination of the consumer market. The season, in reality, isn't even over, and there is already a new captain at the helm, an almost unprecedented event indicating changes to come.

At a cost of over two hundred dollars per drive, the Blu Ray is the force behind the massive cost of the Sony Playstation 3. It is speculated that Sony is bleeding some three hundred bucks per unit, and continues the wild trend of manufacturers losing cash on the console in expectations to get their money back on the software. However, with a scant dozen titles or so, Sony holds little hope of a quick turn around in their fortunes. From it's core, the powerful Cell processor,with it's poor production yields, has added pitfalls to it's on rollout that is compounded by the difficulty in mass producing the Blu Ray in the Playstation 3. The tremendous cost of product, let alone support and delivery costs, may have been a factor in the recent executive level staff changes, but that change (of executives) has pushed the importance of other changes up the ladder of importance.

Sony is rumored to be making drastic changes to recapture the market before losing even more of it's command share to the likes of Nintendo (the success story of the holiday season) or the XBox 360 (still suffering in the land of the rising sun, but gaining momentum everywhere else). In a move that one source says is "aimed at family pricing," Sony is rumored to be working on a Playstation 3 that does not include the Blu Ray drive. Whether this will result in the current low-end model having a change, or a newer "entry level" Playstation 3, remains to be seen. However, this is in stark contrast to their previous, egocentric, statements regarding "what kind of consumer"* will be looking at the Playstation 3.

To further fuel the fire, Toshiba has been reported to be getting ready to announce at CES (The Consumer Electronics Show) a new HDDVD player in the sub-two hundred dollar range. If these reports hold to be true, Sony's Blu Ray hopes may be dashed in even more markets than just that of the video-game arena. The steep pricing of Blu Ray players already make the Playstation 3 the entry level model, and Toshiba may have just put the nail in the coffin of this format. This holiday season was Sony's chance to leap ahead of the HDDVD format, establishing Blu Ray in the consumer market.

Supply problems alone would have likely created problems with Sony's hopes about Blu Ray, but with lackluster sales it is nearly a forgone conclusion. This puts Sony in a terrible position of not only trying to turn their ship around, but if they aren't careful--it could very well sink. A Playstation 3 without Blu Ray technology may save the Playstation from the fate previously seen by Sega's Saturn, but it will be the death nail in the Blu Ray coffin.

http://www.gadgetnutz.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=00264

This is a developing story so Sony might change their minds... mabye.

[Shrygue]

Oh well, thats just too bad for Sony (as usual).

[Psumoni]

Wow, so the entire basis of this article is:

"In a move that one [unnamed, un-described] source says is "aimed at family pricing," Sony is rumored to be working on..."

I'm surprised that they didn't throw in a few betamax references and you've got every other article written about how the PS3 is going to fail.

[Elven6]

Did you make an account just to state that? Apparently this is leaked info and its being discussed has we speak.

Edit: If Sony does indeed make a model without Blu Ray how will the old games work? Will developers be releasing 2 copys of 1 game for a single system?

[blade47167]

PS2 six years ago said the exact same damn thing. 100million sold later PS2 is still going strong. Another bullshit rumor...

[steve-b]

It really doesn't matter what format the games are in, people will buy them. Only the AV geeks will care if HD-DVD or Blu-Ray wins.

[808]

Blu-ray is not just Sony's format. There are 18 different board members backing it, 65 contributors and 94 members, most of which are from massive electronic companies and conglomerates.

They will not just discard it.

[steve-b]

how many of those also support hd-dvd though?

[808]

how many of those also support hd-dvd though?

Not that many, Blu-ray still has a much larger backing.

[dmac]

If the new PS3 goes non Blu-ray and then the majority of people buy the non-blu-ray version will the developers only develop games on DVD? If so will quality and length of games suffer as a result? What about us that already have the PS3 will we be hurt by this?

[steve-b]

I think in the not-to-distant future disc capacity will be a minor concern. With the new compression methods that are just over the horizon capacity is not a problem. It's like the Mhz wars with CPU...it's not long before a new measurement is the must have.

[F9zDark]

The companies supporting Blu Ray are not supporting HD-DVD as it would be a conflict of interest and would be about as stupid as betting on two outcomes; imagine going to the race track on betting on two horses...

[steve-b]

the trick is to bet the right amount on every horse that runs...

[Elven6]

For those who don't know a majority of companys who support Blu Ray are owned by Sony so they were forced to jump onto the bandwagon. If Sony stops supporting Blu Ray then those members would also stop. And the some of the other studios who are supporting Blu Ray also support HD-DVD, I don't have a list ready but Wikipedia does.

[F9zDark]

the trick is to bet the right amount on every horse that runs...

LOL, how is that gonna work? As far as I know when betting is concerned only 1 horse wins; maybe I am wrong though :P

[Elven6]

If you bet on every horse then your not going to make a profit unless they all win.

[F9zDark]

For those who don't know a majority of companys who support Blu Ray are owned by Sony so they were forced to jump onto the bandwagon. If Sony stops supporting Blu Ray then those members would also stop. And the some of the other studios who are supporting Blu Ray also support HD-DVD, I don't have a list ready but Wikipedia does.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_corporations_supporting_Blu-ray

On that list I don't see any companies officially owned by Sony who are on the board of directors.

Really this article is BS, why would Sony even think about dropping BDRoms from the PS3 now? So far no games have been made on DVD for the PS3; I have only seen BD games. It would be utter stupidity to drop the format now, or even stop using them in the PS3; it would cost more to then ship games in BD and DVD format.

[Psumoni]

Wow, so the entire basis of this article is:

"In a move that one [unnamed, un-described] source says is "aimed at family pricing," Sony is rumored to be working on..."

I'm surprised that they didn't throw in a few betamax references and you've got every other article written about how the PS3 is going to fail.
No, I have had the account to gather files and such for quite some time... just my first post.

As I stated, this "leak" comes from an unnamed source that is talking of RUMORS of them THINKING of making something. This is the equivalent of a guy who hands out donuts at the meetings hearing a guy say "What if we made a PS3 w/o a Blu-Ray drive? You know, continue using DVDs for the games?"

If you've ever worked around corporate big-wigs, you would know that the minute somebody with enough weight in a company says that, you have to humor them. From the systems engineers to marketing, you'd have to make a report on how a PS3 sans Blu-Ray would work, sell or not, regardless of how sincere that suit was.

My opinion? Having already been using my PS3 for about 3 weeks now, I wouldn't miss the Blu-Ray for gaming, provided that they had a fast enough DVD drive. Load times are quite acceptable from the Blu-Ray drive, but I'd hate to see them get any longer. Retailers would probably hate to see all those Blu-Ray games recalled and replaced with DVD versions, but consumers wouldn't care, and the XBOX-360 has shown that the DVD format is still adequate for next-gen gaming.

Given that as far as consumers are concerned, there is no difference between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, and Sony's foresight to include Talladega Nights with every PS3 to make consumers aware of the feature was brilliant. Nobody who has purchased a PS3 is likely to ever purchase a HD-DVD player or HD-DVD.

Bottom line: Exclusion of Blu-Ray from the PS3 won't hurt it in gaming one bit, but it could hurt Blu-Ray's chance of winning the format war.

[jerrt]

i really can't see this as true. weren't the big wigs just talking about making a media only unit. i'm sure it will have blueray.

[DCergo]

Nothing but FUD.

All PS3 games are published on Blu-rays, and will be published on them for the lifespan of the PS3.

It would be supremely stupid to just segment the market with a PS3 that only plays DVDs, leaving the 1st/2nd generation games out of reach because they're on Blu-ray. This is not going to happen.

Sony bet the farm on Blu-ray, and they're sticking with it, for better of for worse.

[muffinman]

this article is bs indeed. Sony won't just ditch blue-ray as it is their new baby :). Hey who knows it might even catch on a few years down the line when the players are cheap enough

[gdf]

just because it doesn't have the capacity to play Blu Ray movies that's not to say it can't play B-R games no? the 360 cant play hd-dvd movies, but as far as i know the games are hd-dvds. sony should have done the microsoft thing as you can buy an hd-dvd drive for 360 for extra money. think about it, you should have a choice and there's no point in having hd disc technology if you can't use it. if you can afford an hd tv you won't mind shelling out another £100 for a new drive. actually, come to think f it the ps3 must be more expensive than the 360 pretty much because sony decided not to make the B-R disc drive optional and thus forced the consumer to pay for something they dont need. haha sony. 360 owns ps3! Bill Gates is laughing all the way to the bank...

[808]

just because it doesn't have the capacity to play Blu Ray movies that's not to say it can't play B-R games no? the 360 cant play hd-dvd movies, but as far as i know the games are hd-dvds. sony should have done the microsoft thing as you can buy an hd-dvd drive for 360 for extra money. think about it, you should have a choice and there's no point in having hd disc technology if you can't use it. if you can afford an hd tv you won't mind shelling out another £100 for a new drive. actually, come to think f it the ps3 must be more expensive than the 360 pretty much because sony decided not to make the B-R disc drive optional and thus forced the consumer to pay for something they dont need. haha sony. 360 owns ps3! Bill Gates is laughing all the way to the bank...

I'm guessing you wrote that whilst furiously masturbating to your Gears of War instruction manual?

[Elven6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_corporations_supporting_Blu-ray

On that list I don't see any companies officially owned by Sony who are on the board of directors.

Really this article is BS, why would Sony even think about dropping BDRoms from the PS3 now? So far no games have been made on DVD for the PS3; I have only seen BD games. It would be utter stupidity to drop the format now, or even stop using them in the PS3; it would cost more to then ship games in BD and DVD format.

Im guessing its like that since Sony already has a seat on the BDA its followers woulden't. Even on TV when you watch ads of upcoming releases, a majority of studios they say are publishing it on Blu Ray are not the list either.

[SSaxdude]

Even though PS3 games are on Blu Ray discs, most already out don't take up more than 9 gb (the size of dual layer DVDs.) Go on a torrent site, put in PS3, and look at all the games that are less than 9 gb.

[TuRDMaN]

These are also first generation games. Wait a couple months and see how big they get.

[mavsman4457]

Hahahaha, this is so dumb. Developers love being able to develop on bluray and not having disc limits. Many games have already been and are going to be developed on bluray. I'm telling you right now, this is BS. This thread should be closed or renamed as a rumor because it wouldn't happen. It would be so embarrassing to Sony if they actually just admitted defeat like this. They're not wusses. Whether the format fails or succeed or does neither and just lingers, Sony is going to stick by it for the entire duration of the PS3, which is going to be a long time with all the software updates it will have.

[slappy1]

Maybe it is a rumour, maybe not; but if you think that sony execs haven't at least considered dropping Blue Ray from a profitability perspective, you're in the land of Oz.

I think they are having some shortcommings now, but if they drop blue-ray they will probably have even more problems, as others have already stated. Blue-ray games won't play on the new systems, unless the consumer buys some kind of add on drive.

If they make the switch, all new games will be on DVD format, with the older games to be incompatible with the new system, or these games can be unpadded and rereleased on DVD format. Blue-ray can then be an upgrade, similar to HD-DVD on the 360.

Either way Sony has to make money, Correct?

Maybe the next gen systems can succeed with the HD format, when the technology is cheaper and more consumer priced.

Sony only dominates the 360 in Japan. This is simply brand loyalty, not common sense consumers. Everywhere else, Sony is having problems and needs to correct them. So lets just see what happens.

[F9zDark]

And what would Sony do in the future if they wanted to go back to BDRoms? Go the route of Microshit and make us use a space wasting external drive?

I doubt it.

[cloud_952]

o_O But they can't have a non-blu-ray drive for the PS3. The games that are out now are ON blu-ray, which would mean that the new PS3 couldn't play those games, as a matter of hardware issue. ^_^;

[F9zDark]

just because it doesn't have the capacity to play Blu Ray movies that's not to say it can't play B-R games no? the 360 cant play hd-dvd movies, but as far as i know the games are hd-dvds. sony should have done the microsoft thing as you can buy an hd-dvd drive for 360 for extra money. think about it, you should have a choice and there's no point in having hd disc technology if you can't use it. if you can afford an hd tv you won't mind shelling out another £100 for a new drive. actually, come to think f it the ps3 must be more expensive than the 360 pretty much because sony decided not to make the B-R disc drive optional and thus forced the consumer to pay for something they dont need. haha sony. 360 owns ps3! Bill Gates is laughing all the way to the bank...

Right... Anyone with a 360 will end up PAYING MORE for the same features as PS3. Lets do the math shall we?

PS3 with Wireless, 60gb, and BDRom - 600 USD

Xbox360 with 20gb - 400 USD
+Wireless (seperate) - 100 USD
+HD-DVD (seperate) - 200 USD

Total: 700 USD

So in the end, to attain the same features, you get slammed needing to pay 100 more for the 360 than you do for the PS3. And considering how shitty a business Microshit is, it wouldn't surprise me if 6 months down the road they start making their games use HD-DVDs to force people to buy them.

[Elven6]

Right... Anyone with a 360 will end up PAYING MORE for the same features as PS3. Lets do the math shall we?

PS3 with Wireless, 60gb, and BDRom - 600 USD

Xbox360 with 20gb - 400 USD
+Wireless (seperate) - 100 USD
+HD-DVD (seperate) - 200 USD

Total: 700 USD

So in the end, to attain the same features, you get slammed needing to pay 100 more for the 360 than you do for the PS3. And considering how shitty a business Microshit is, it wouldn't surprise me if 6 months down the road they start making their games use HD-DVDs to force people to buy them.

You realize many shops bundle many Wireless accesories with their Premium console right! Andd the HD-DVD drive is OPTIONAL!!!! You don't need it to get the most out of your games, you don't need it for games, you just need it to watch HD movies if you want to! So your statment is irrelavent and in a way just wrong.

[slappy1]

And what would Sony do in the future if they wanted to go back to BDRoms? Go the route of Microshit and make us use a space wasting external drive?

I doubt it.

Well, Microsoft's (ie. Microshit, see above) Add-on (The HD-DVD drive), is an affordable alternative to other HD-DVD players on the market, and its only purpose is to play movies not games. I have used the HD-DVD add-on for the 360 with King Kong, while viewing 1080i on a 50+ inch TV and the picture is definitely incredible and makes DVD picture quality look like shit.

Me Soo Ssssony, will do what they need to.

[F9zDark]

Thats what Sony is offering with BluRay, an affordable home solution. So I don't think they would just drop it in the PS3. The more people who have BluRay drives, the more successful BluRay will be.

Honestly, I think BluRay will ultimately win out. The capacity of BluRay discs will save studios alot of money when the price of discs come down, since they can package a 3 or 4 DVD/HD-DVD disc set on 1 BDRom disc.

[slappy1]

Thats what Sony is offering with BluRay, an affordable home solution. So I don't think they would just drop it in the PS3. The more people who have BluRay drives, the more successful BluRay will be.

Honestly, I think BluRay will ultimately win out. The capacity of BluRay discs will save studios alot of money when the price of discs come down, since they can package a 3 or 4 DVD/HD-DVD disc set on 1 BDRom disc.

A blue-ray disc has only about twice the storage of a HD-DVD disc at the most. So fitting 3 to 4 times the video and sound data on a blue-ray disc, as compared the HD-DVD, is highly unlikely.

I find it hard to believe that blue-ray will win out, though. HD-DVD movies are now being packed with the DVD version of the movie on the reverse side of the disc, to encourage the DVD player owner to purchase these before making the switch to HD-DVD.

Also, HD-DVD is way ahead of Blue-Ray in sales of players both stand alone players and through game systems.

Sony, at best, will only possess the smaller market share of HD disc sales.

Also, HD-DVD movies are cheaper than Blue-Ray movies and don't use MPEG-2 video encoding like Blue-Ray does.

Sony's only weapon that has been waged against HD-DVD is to only publish Sony Pictures and affiliates movies on Blue-Ray exclusively, which is the same thing they did with the BETA-MAX before releasing the movies on VHS approx. 1 year later.

So lets just see if history repeats itself.

[DCergo]

I find it hard to believe that blue-ray will win out, though. HD-DVD movies are now being packed with the DVD version of the movie on the reverse side of the disc, to encourage the DVD player owner to purchase these before making the switch to HD-DVD.

Also, HD-DVD is way ahead of Blue-Ray in sales of players both stand alone players and through game systems.

Sony, at best, will only possess the smaller market share of HD disc sales.

Also, HD-DVD movies are cheaper than Blue-Ray movies and don't use MPEG-2 video encoding like Blue-Ray does.

Sony's only weapon that has been waged against HD-DVD is to only publish Sony Pictures and affiliates movies on Blue-Ray exclusively, which is the same thing they did with the BETA-MAX before releasing the movies on VHS approx. 1 year later.

So lets just see if history repeats itself.

HDDVD/DVD combo movies are out there because HDDVD is in serious trouble :)

Blu-ray movies have seen a massive increase in sales (especially since the PS3 launch), and are about to overtake HDDVD online sales if they haven't already. Click here for some statistics (http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/)

Blu-ray has overtaken HDDVD sales at DVDEmpire (http://www.dvdempire.com/index.asp?userid=99365188214269&tab_id=60&site_id=69&site_media_id=0)
(smaller version of Amazon) HDDVD movies outsold Blu-ray for most of 2006 (duh), until the PS3 hit)

Dec 2006
Blu-ray 55.06%
HD-DVD 44.94%

Last week of 2006
Blu-ray 55.5%
HD-DVD 44.5%

Blu-ray has 90% of Hollywood and is missing one studio's support, and that is Universal. Universal's HDDVD exclusivity contract ends this month. The word is Universal is about to cave in and announce Blu-ray support in the coming months. As it stands, HDDVD has somewhere about 50%-60% of Hollywood studio support, in other words, the HDDVD holdouts are Fox, Lion's Gate, Live/Artisan, MGM, Sony Pictures, Touchstone, Disney, and I may be missing another studio, can't remember at the moment. All those studios make up roughly half, more or less, of Hollywood. That is a serious hurdle for HDDVD, and it will get really painful in 2007.

HDDVD has only one of the major electronics manufacturers exclusively making players for it (Toshiba). The rest are either supporting both HDDVD and Blu-ray, or Blu-ray exlusive.

Price argument doesn't often hold water. Check out Fry's and you'll see HDDVD titles going for as much as $10 more than Blu-ray titles. Most are the same. The price advantage HDDVD movies previously enjoyed has narrowed significantly. (new HDDVD movies at Amazon go for $20-$25 average, new Blu-ray movies average $20-$27. That small gap is closing.)

The Mpeg2 argument is old and false now. Many Blu-ray movies have been using the VC-1 and AVC codecs for a while now (Warner/Buena Vista/Disney for example): Unforgiven, The Searchers, The Phantom of the Opera, Under Siege, Superman, The Last Samurai, Million Dollar Baby, Goodfellas, Poseidon, Flightplan, Tim Burton's Corpse Bride, Swordfish, Space Cowboys, The Fugitive, Lethal Weapon 2, and House of Wax, Kingdom of Heaven: Director's Cut, Ice Age: The Meltdown, Fantastic Four, The Omen and lots more... all using the superior VC-1 or AVC codecs. (s:maxconsole)

Lastly, the 2007 movie release list is quite telling, Hollywood is clearly throwing its weight behind Blu-ray. The litmus test will be 2007, and if HDDVD can survive, or if PS3 doesn't help sales (unlikely).

[irongiant]

Also, HD-DVD is way ahead of Blue-Ray in sales of players both stand alone players and through game systems.

You got some official stats to back that statement up? No you haven't so here's some info:

"About 695,000 consumers own either a Blu-ray or an HD-DVD player, according to Tom Adams of Adams Media Research in Carmel, Calif. But only about 25,000 have purchased stand-alone Blu-ray players. Another 400,000 consumers have Blu-ray because they bought a Sony PS3 game console. Meanwhile, about 120,000 or so have a stand-alone HD-DVD player while about 150,000 have an HD-DVD upgrade kit for their Xbox 360 game consoles, Mr. Adams says. He adds that those numbers are well in excess of the 300,000 DVD-player sales in 1997, when that technology rolled out."

So that makes total HD DVD machines out there = 270,000 and total Blu Ray machines = 425,000. Add to that approx 500,000 PS3s sold in Japan and Blu Ray already has a massive lead.

I've heard a whisper that MS will be making HD DVD games in the future, thus forcing all owners to buy one!

[F9zDark]

I've heard a whisper that MS will be making HD DVD games in the future, thus forcing all owners to buy one!

And thats Microshit's common practice. **** their consumers in the ass with requirements to using their products. It wouldn't surprise me if that future was 2 weeks from now.

Added:

Hell in fact, it would make business sense to force their consumers to jump on HD-DVD bandwagon; at least then the sales for HD-DVD would increase and perhaps give it half a chance.

[slappy1]

True Blue-Ray must have some what of a lead in unit sales, due to the fact that the Playstation 3 has one built it. But only the consumer will determine what happens here. In my opinion the Blue-Ray players are too expensive, and are essentially identical to HD-DVD in picture but not so exactly in sound. HD-DVD are now reportedly going to hold 3 layers of data, for an incredible 50Gb of data evening the storage department.

Microsoft has repeatedly said that there will be no games on the 360 that use HD-DVD, this would cause to many problems but maybe there next gen system will. And, I am sure their next gen system will come out way before the other next gen systems will considering the fact that microsoft is already turning a profit with the sale of the 360.

Fact is, that Blue-Ray and HD-DVD will both be profitable and both will be around for the forseeable future. I am partial to HD-DVD myself, since I have experienced the movies for myself and that they have economically priced units and movies. Also the fact a minor scratch on the disc, won't curropt the data. But, I could care less about which format has the larger market share. I'll be buying HD-DVD movies, do what you will.

Also, Microsoft does not own HD-DVD. The only reason they support it is to squash the profitability of Sony.

[F9zDark]

I never said they owned it. In fact, its hollywood who will ultimately decide what wins out. If no studios produce HD-DVD movies, guess what? HD-DVD will be the next Betamax in a New York minute.

3 layers of data is as far as I know impossible. They can have 2 layers per side. A Dual Sided, Dual Layer HD-DVD comes in at 60gb of data. The same BluRay disc comes in at 100gb of data.

If they could make a 3rd layer, then you'd also see that happening with BluRay discs as well; then we'd have 75gb BluRays, so no matter what HD-DVD is still trumped.

As well, Sony could never drop BluRay. Resistance, a launch title uses 16gb of data (originally used 22gbs, but the PAL cutscenes were removed and replaced with an NTSC -> converter to reduce burn times.)

Right there, a Launch PS3 title utilizes BluRay almost to its fullest extent. Resistance couldn't have worked on DVD, with its 9gb storage capacity.

[slappy1]

I never said they owned it. In fact, its hollywood who will ultimately decide what wins out. If no studios produce HD-DVD movies, guess what? HD-DVD will be the next Betamax in a New York minute.

3 layers of data is as far as I know impossible. They can have 2 layers per side. A Dual Sided, Dual Layer HD-DVD comes in at 60gb of data. The same BluRay disc comes in at 100gb of data.

If they could make a 3rd layer, then you'd also see that happening with BluRay discs as well; then we'd have 75gb BluRays, so no matter what HD-DVD is still trumped.

As well, Sony could never drop BluRay. Resistance, a launch title uses 16gb of data (originally used 22gbs, but the PAL cutscenes were removed and replaced with an NTSC -> converter to reduce burn times.)

Right there, a Launch PS3 title utilizes BluRay almost to its fullest extent. Resistance couldn't have worked on DVD, with its 9gb storage capacity.

What? Do you know what you're even talking about?

HD-DVD is currently 2 layer, the 3rd layer creates 50Gb and would be compatible with all HD-DVD Players. Three layers has been done (Fact), and is going to be implemented in some cases.

Blue-Ray has many layers, getting very close to the discs surface. Sony has tried adding more layers to Blue-Ray disc with little success.

Sony never mentions HD-DVD in their HD TV manuals, only Blue-Ray. Sony will only publish Sony movies and their affialates movies on Blue-Ray.

HD-DVD has plenty of movie studios on their side, you need to do some research. Great movies like Batman Begins, King Kong, Tomb Raider, and many others are already on HD-DVD. The LOTR trilogy will be comming to HD-DVD also.

Go Blow Sony.

[F9zDark]

What? Do you know what you're even talking about?

HD-DVD is currently 2 layer, the 3rd layer creates 50Gb and would be compatible with all HD-DVD Players. Three layers has been done (Fact), and is going to be implemented in some cases.

Blue-Ray has many layers, getting very close to the discs surface. Sony has tried adding more layers to Blue-Ray disc with little success.

Sony never mentions HD-DVD in their HD TV manuals, only Blue-Ray. Sony will only publish Sony movies and their affialates movies on Blue-Ray.

HD-DVD has plenty of movie studios on their side, you need to do some research. Great movies like Batman Begins, King Kong, Tomb Raider, and many others are already on HD-DVD. The LOTR trilogy will be comming to HD-DVD also.

Go Blow Sony.

First off, you know what you're talking about? Judging from how half of your response has nothing to do with the topic indicates that (the bit about Sony and HD-DVDs makes no sense, as I never said a damn thing about thats...).

BluRays have 2 layers, just like HD-DVDs. Where is your evidence that HD-DVDs can get 3 layers and BluRays can't?

As well the fact that you think Tomb Raider was a "great movie" immediately makes your points suspect. Nor does your "Go Blow Sony" quip lead any credence to your claims; in fact, it does quite the opposite, I didn't insult you, you have no business insulting me, and by doing so you just forfeited any intelligent ideas you may have contributed to this debate.

[muffinman]

little success with multiple layers on blue ray disks is bs. I believe they made a 10 layer one a few months back which holds 250gb double and triple layered disks are easy for them not hard.

[DCergo]

If anyone's been paying attention to the CES 2007 going on now, you'd see Toshiba announced a 3 layer HDDVD disc, which is absolutely no surprise, since the HDDVD spec calls for 3 layers, maximum. We've known about this for ages, now.

But people seem to think this trumps Blu-ray for some reason, and it does not. LAST year, at CES 2006, TDK announced a working quad layer Blu-ray disc, 100 gigs. If you look at the Blu-ray specifications, Blu-ray can hold 8 layers, 200 gigs. We probably won't see that for a long time, however.

As far as HDDVD having plenty of studios, they do, but it amounts to perhaps only around half of Hollywood. HDDVD lacks Fox/MGM/Disney/Touchstone/BuenaVista/Sony Pictures/Lionsgate, (Blu-ray exclusive) which amounts to 90% of Hollywood support.

The only studio exclusive to HDDVD is Universal, and the rumor is that the exclusivity is going to end quite soon.

At the CES, the BD exclusive studios reaffirmed their exclusivity and commitment to the Blu-ray format. Even some bold claims were made about it being game-over for HDDVD :) But, HDDVD is still doing quite well, for now. Universal holding out has helped them tremendously. They still have a major uphill battle with the PS3 essentially giving the studios 1.5 million Blu-ray players out right now.