HD DVD Vs Blu-ray: HD-DVD goes beyond 50GB with new disc

[Darksaviour69]

Toshiba has announced a new 51GB HD-DVD Rom disc at this year's CES.

Beating Blu-ray by 1GB, Toshiba today said that they had successfully created a triple layer HD-DVD disc that could contain 51GB worth of data with 17GB on each layer.

"Continued improvement in disc mastering technology has achieved further minimization in the recording pit, supporting a further boost in capacity to 17GB in single layer and a full 51GB on a single-sided triple-layer disc. Toshiba has confirmed the disc structure and its successful operation." said the press release. "This time-tested physical structure offers proven volume manufacturing at little cost increment."

Toshiba has now closed the storage gab with Blu-ray, which can store 50GB on a dual-layered disc.
Source (http://www.dvdtown.com/news/hddvdgoesbeyond50gbwithnewdisc/4260)

Not sure if existing HD DVD players can read the new disc (I'm guessing they can). If so, this makes things interesting!

[g00gy]

but the name blu-ray sounds so much cooler

[phsychokill]

from what i read early on sony were claiming with blue ray they could go up to 6 layers giving them 200gb of storage be interesting if sony do that as it would blow hd dvd out of the water considering they needed 3 to match a dual layer blue ray

[alienanthropologist]

This doesn't bode well for Blue Ray. Blue Ray is considerably more expensive than HD-DVD, and it's introduccion to the market has been beset with delays and bad publicity, so if it can't offer a significant practical advantage over its competitor, Sony might have another impending disaster on its way.

What do the experts who know about this stuff have to say about this: assuming BD can hold up to 25GB per layer (is that right?), then, I wonder if they can create a triple layered Blue Ray disc with a storage of 75GB.

I mean, even if they can... who needs a disc with such monstrous storage capacity, as nice as it sounds.

[Tetris999]

ok now im screwing sony

[jstush04]

down with sony. more of an evil empire than microsoft, i hate to say

[pir8Smit]

200GB BR discs can be produced... TDK made some although I doubt that existing BR players can read them if the 200GB discs come into production at some point in the future

[I heart Nintendo]

HD-DVD all the way! What am I basing that fulè weight of support on? *shrugs* HD-DVD!!!!

[Ichijoe]

Damn High-Density Digital Versatile Disc is set to trounce ol Billy-Ray™!
First this, and now the news that S0NY®™ is refusing to print Pr0nz on it's supper-soar-away Billy-Ray™ Format, means that all the Cat-Calls over ßeta-Ray, ßetamax² are going to be well founded indeed!!!

Good-bye S0NY®™ you are the 'Weakest Link'®™...

[PSmonkey]

This really does not matter. I am not sure on the full limits but I remember blu-ray was planned with the idea of making up to 4 layers ideal (25GB per layer).

I say by next year CES sony will anounce that B-R pushes 100GB just to mock toshiba.

Blu-ray is also suppost to have more advantages over HD-DVD other then just capasity.

[quzar]

Blu-ray is also suppost to have more advantages over HD-DVD other then just capasity.

Such as? As far as I know HD-DVD has blu ray beat out everywhere but capacity per layer. The menu systems are much more useful, they have support of more studios, and most importantly of all in my mind: almost all HD-DVDs that are being released currently are two sided, with the second side being a legacy DVD.

[ikarimaru]

I'm looking for a special quote where a special someone says nobody will need a Hard Drive over a certain capacity... hmmm

Funny how technology CHANGES... Instead of saying, "OMGz, guYz, whY wuld wE EVER neeD 200 giGs?!?!11"
Why don't you say, "Hmmm, that's a lot of capacity. What new technology will make use of that space in the future?"

Sometimes you people just confuse me. You seem to all be techies, but you don't think like them...

[Darksaviour69]

quzar, Blu ray has far more studios backing it. recently more studios are starting to support HD dvd, but Blu ray currently have more supporters

[quzar]

quzar, Blu ray has far more studios backing it. recently more studios are starting to support HD dvd, but Blu ray currently have more supporters

hrm. that's odd, i guess i havn't looked at lists in a while =P

[Darksaviour69]

http://www.hack247.co.uk/2007/01/07/hd-dvd-vs-blu-ray-a-comparison/

[pir8Smit]

This really does not matter. I am not sure on the full limits but I remember blu-ray was planned with the idea of making up to 4 layers ideal (25GB per layer).

I say by next year CES sony will anounce that B-R pushes 100GB just to mock toshiba.

Blu-ray is also suppost to have more advantages over HD-DVD other then just capasity.

AS I said 200GB BR discs exist NOW, nevermind waiting til next year

[quzar]

AS I said 200GB BR discs exist NOW, nevermind waiting til next year

so you can go out and buy one now? and use it in standard players? link?

[Darksaviour69]

if you look at the article (http://www.hack247.co.uk/2007/01/07/hd-dvd-vs-blu-ray-a-comparison/) you will see that the blue ray tested limit is 100gb and the theoretical limit is 200gb. the tested limit for HD was 45Gb, now they got 51gb with a theoretical 60gb limit

[quzar]

if you look at the article (http://www.hack247.co.uk/2007/01/07/hd-dvd-vs-blu-ray-a-comparison/) you will see that the blue ray tested limit is 100gb and the theoretical limit is 200gb. the tested limit for HD was 45Gb, now they got 51gb with a theoretical 60gb limit

theoretical tests. there are also theoretical tests of 10ghz processors. there's a huge gap between in the lab, and being talked about at industry conventions.

[MZeroEW2]

hmm rather intresting, although by adding more GB per layer 15 to 17GB, they also change the distance between the data tracks, now all current HD-DVD players CAN'T (cannot) see the closer data tracks, thats the big diff between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD the data tracks and laser focus

(in fact blu-rays are cheaper to produce. just more to convert exsiting dvd plants over to Blu-ray plants, this is becasue blu-rays are a single disc, while dvd and hd-dvd are a two disc proccess to make one disc, notice the seem in the middle of DVD's or HD-DVD's).

anyways it's really rather pointless who wins. the fact is the PS3 uses Blu-rays for games and thats not going to change, look at UMD

[Kaeruyaki]

Looks bad for Sony. Bluray discs are very hard to make, and 9/10 discs made are no good, meaning that only 10% are actually being sold. The only thing they had above HD DVD is gone now, and I doubt they would risk adding more layers and increasing the bad disc rate.

[phsychokill]

if you think the ps3 will sell millions its a blue ray player so its gona give them one hell of a kick start as oposed to buying adon for the xbox 360 that is no use for anything other than playing movies. pluss size and technology doesnt matter if you look at betamax and vhs the betamax was actualy more advanced than vhs was but vhs still won in the end. the fact is sony has alot of suport mac, disney and fox to name a couple as oposed to hd dvd with the only suporter actualy worth mentioning being microsoft they may rule the os of every pc but but they cant do anything to windows to stop blue ray even if they want to.

[Ennohex]

Woah!
Imagine a triple layer blu-ray disc!
75gig!!

[felonyr301]

guys hd-dvd is going to win because the porn industry said they going to go with the HD-dvd instead of the blueray. Sadly the porn industry is the key here.

[Asherek]

guys hd-dvd is going to win because the porn industry said they going to go with the HD-dvd instead of the blueray. Sadly the porn industry is the key here.

That might have been true during the Beta/VHS war or when DVD's were first introduced, but the Internet wasn't nearly as prevalent for either of those 2 format introductions.

It's quite a bit different now, with porn being so readily available over the Internet, it's not as big of a deal anymore.

[woods05]

In my opinion, I don't think Sony will do well in the next gen disc war.
A lot of people [no one here] don't know what a Blu-ray disc is. On the other hand, HD DVD is obvious. Everyone already knows what a DVD is and they probably know what HD is.
Having HD DVD with over 50 GB is just an added bonus.

[homebrew1973]

HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, what difference does it make which one you decide to go for later on? There`ll be many more drives available that`ll play both formats. And the idea of paying £20-£25 per film anyway, what a joke....

[Veskgar]

I am behind Blu-Ray and I ain't no SONY fanboy. I think Blu-Ray is superior for Next Gen gaming and movies.

It might take a couple years, but Blu-Ray will end up being the industry standard. HD-DVD will not get stomped out, but I doubt it will topple Blu-Ray.

So yeah, my preference is Blu-Ray! My biggest disappointment with both formats is that a lot of movies offer more bang for your buck on DVD.

I'm a huge movie buff and when movies that are available in unrated, extended, director's cut, etc. on DVD are coming out on BLU-Ray without all that extra content, it pisses me off.

Why?

Because the most annoying thing about DVD's is that if you buy a DVD movie, in 6 months a new SPECIAL, DELUXE, ULTIMATE, EXTENDED, etc. etc. etc. version comes out. So you have to buy the damn movie all over again.

It looks like the stage is set for that exact same scenario when it comes to Blu-Ray. And because Blu-Ray movies will be more expensive that is just not acceptable to me as a consumer.

That is probably due to movie studio greed than the format the movie is released on but it is still unacceptable.

Let me now give an example of why I'm so pissed. I'll use the movie Tears of the Sun as an example:

DVD version:
http://www.dvdempire.com/Exec/v4_item.asp?userid=99365222522284&item_id=677230&searchID=67666

Blu-Ray version:
http://www.dvdempire.com/Exec/v4_item.asp?userid=99365222522284&item_id=1178582&searchID=67666

The DVD version is a far more great value than the Blu-Ray. Notice the length of the DVD version is 132 minutes but the Blu-Ray only 121 minutes.

*COUGH* RIPOFF!! *COUGH*

[Makaveli777]

Question is it true that with more layers on a disc it becomes more vulnerable to scratches and harder to read.

[Joe88]

guys hd-dvd is going to win because the porn industry said they going to go with the HD-dvd instead of the blueray. Sadly the porn industry is the key here.

you would think but all the big movie companies have took blu-ray except for a few which went HD-DVD
company support for blu-ray compared to HD-DVD is pretty pathetic

[shadowprophet]

guys hd-dvd is going to win because the porn industry said they going to go with the HD-dvd instead of the blueray. Sadly the porn industry is the key here.
but It's not just about the porn.
When a new format starts going exclusive toward certain forms of media it's only natural regardless of specs or power or even storage space that this format simply will not appeal to as large a fan base as say a format that isnt as exclusive on its media.

[acn010]

besides the discs are fragil and easy to be scratched, thats what im worried about

[telboy007]

Ahh, they're both the same thing. It's bound to go with which has the coolest name. :)

[Rustof]

sony isn't a bad coorporation, just remember how cool the fact that they Made The psp in the first place was

the battle of next gen discs will be resolved by customer appeal. Instead of replying on forums to show your support go out and buy HD-DVD or Blue-Ray discs. I say vote with your dollars to decide who wins. After enough people buy discs and players the producers will have enough units produced cheaply to drop the price until the avrage joe can buy the product...and that's when I buy my new Blue-Ray player.:D

[J sims]

I vote for Hd dvd as it has LESS DRM built into it(not DRM Free). Fox studios required both formats to have additional drm added to the already present AACS. Hd DVD to my knowledge did not comply while blu-ray did.

[MaxSMoke]

I hate to be a spoil sport, but WTF does this have to do with the PSP or Homebrew? Why is this site filling it's pages with random tech junk? It's burying actual PSP news with meanless clutter completely unrelated to why this website exists in the first place. Does this website really need filler this badly?

[SSaxdude]

Blu-Ray has better storage per layer, but in comparisons HD DVD has better picture in movies and is much cheaper.

TDK has talked about making 200 gb Blu-Rays but said that they have no intention of actually producing them.

[SSaxdude]

sony isn't a bad coorporation, just remember how cool the fact that they Made The psp in the first place was


Yeah but the only reason to own a PSP is because of coders who give us tons of great homebrew and whatnot.

[r2works]

Toshiba always staying on top of technology.

[quzar]

but It's not just about the porn.
When a new format starts going exclusive toward certain forms of media it's only natural regardless of specs or power or even storage space that this format simply will not appeal to as large a fan base as say a format that isnt as exclusive on its media.

Actually, porn was one of the things that made VHS the clear cut choice for the format wars back then. At the time Sony refused to licesnse the technology to any porn studios for use of home releases. Considering this was the first time (other than film reels) that people had the ability to watch pre-recorded video at home and that it was quite a few years before cable became popular it was a big deal.

[mnuhaily22]

Ya, I knew Microsoft would kill Sony in the end.

[DCergo]

1) TDK announced and introduced last year at the CES 2006 a 100GB quad layer BD.

2) TDK announced this year at CES 2007 a six layer BD at 200GB.

3) These will reach market, but not for a long time.

4) Those worried about scratches: All bluray discs are have a protective composite 0.1mm coating on the surface, making them 100 times more durable/scratch-resistant than normal DVDs. Read some FAQs about the various formulas companies are using on blurays: Durabis on TDK discs, Accucore/Scratch Guard on Sony discs, etc.

5) HDDVD has a specification of 3 layers, maximum. Bluray has a specification of 8 layers, maximum. This was always planned and if you have been following the industry, this is no surprise.

6) As far as porn goes, Vivid is still supporting Bluray, and the vicechair of the Bluray Association specifically commented about this and said that adult content is not being refused. There's a story floating about that Sony said "no" to porn, this is false.

7) Blurays have caught up to HDDVD sales. At DVDempire, Blurays are soundly outselling HDDVD movies.

8) HDDVD has one exclusive studio, Universal (the rumor in the industry is they will announce support for Bluray this year). In addition to the other supporting studios, it adds up to about half of Hollywood supporting HDDVD.

9) Bluray has Fox, Lions Gate, MGM, BuenaVista, Touchstone, Sony Pictures, Disney as exclusives. In addition to other neutral studios, like Warner and New Line, that adds up to 90% of Hollywood. Spiderman 3? Pirates of the Carribean? You'll need a bluray player. Those and tons of others aren't coming to HDDVD.

10) Cannot exclude the PS3 effect. 1.5 million of them out in the wild, and 1.1 million sold in, as in, in the homes now. The more PS3 that are sold, the more blurays will be sold.


“We are looking forward to this pivotal year and the ultimate establishment of Blu-ray as the high-definition packaged media standard. In fact, Blu-ray sales performance surpassed HD-DVD for the first time the week of December 24 and did so by an impressive 20 per cent. What’s more, by the end of the first quarter our research shows the sales gap widening to Blu-ray outselling HD DVD by a 3.5-to-1 ratio,” noted Mike Dunn, President Worldwide, Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment. “We remain extremely encouraged by the growth in sales and player penetration and are fully committed to creating the most compelling products possible and to the continued pioneering development of BD with our partners.”


HDDVD is on really thin ice (dying). The studios are throwing their weight behind Bluray, especially in 2007.

[J sims]

I personally for HD movies would like to see this instead off HD dvd and blu ray.
http://www.moskalyuk.com/blog/10-layer-dvd-to-trump-hd-dvd-and-bluray/1247
10 layer DVDs may not hold as much as the other formats but it isn't as raped with DRM either