Would an Homebrew Console Be a Realistic Venture and What Would you Need ?

[wraggster]

The systems on sale today are great in their own way but none apart from the made for homebrew GP2X handheld console support Homebrew and Emulation.

So what got me thinking is could a Homebrew Console (like a Wii/PS3 etc) be done and done cheaply but with a decent enough spec for Homebrewers and Independent Programmers to learn their craft on.

Any homebrew console really would need i would say a processor of 700Mhz, at least 64MB of ram or even 128mb ram. A decent graphics chip that can do 2d and 3D.

For storage and maybe a virtual Memory option say use SD Cards, cd/dvd drives are expensive and break a lot so a static device would be longer lasting ?

Maybe USB ports and possibly a VGA Out.

You can see where im going with this but for what price could this realistically be done and also what specs would you include. I for one think Wifi would be needed for Online Homebrew games.

Now if only someone would take this Dream and develop it.

Thoughts?

[bullhead]

If it was to bee good, you would need some really dedicated programmers.

bull, x.

[dzeikei]

There is one thing with all of that already included... it's called a PC

[JKKDARK]

A homebrew console don't sell well.

[SSaxdude]

1 ghz processor, 256 mb of ram, 40 gb hard drive, and it would cost $300.

[qskint]

using microatx you could build a pc based system such as the one SSaxdude said whilst staying small, and have it running some form of linux. would be more than powerfull enough whislt being quite well priced.

spec somehting in the region of 1-15ghz cpu, 256mb ram, 40gig hdd that could be upgraded, dvd drive and some cheap graphics card with 128mb ram

[ikarimaru]

Depends on if you're going to be designing a new dedicated processor. Masks alone for those cost $2 million. I'm sure you could talk some chip manufacturer into letting them use their technology for a price, though...

[tgm123]

chip an xbox and you have exactly what you want all very cheap too less than £100

[scarph]

wouldnt it be a homebrew
not an homebrew

[StormB]

I think the GP2X is the closest you're going to get

[wipeout2000]

Well thinkk about about it this way. Why would you make a homebrew app for a homebrew console, when you can easily make it for a pc. Most homebrew people don't make complex games or apps. And even if they did, they would probably make it for a pc that can use usb gamepads instead of a homebrew console that essentiallly does the same thing. the only way i can see that happening is if the console was ultra portable (like the size of 2 psps stacked on each other and had wireless everything

[Mr.Modem]

chip an xbox and you have exactly what you want all very cheap too less than £100

Exactly what I was going to mention.

[mnuhaily22]

What about the PSP, I think we forgot about that...

[Dickhead]

Well to be true homebrew it will have keyboard support and include a user friendly but very powerful programming language program that even joe blogs could use. I think also it will need support for all sorts of readable media,a fast cpu processor, wifi,bluetooth and 3G support internet ready, 1 Terabyte of ram and able to process next gen graphics, Also I think it should look cool and not out of place in your living room. Why not use a mac or a PC or even a Windows Mobile smartphone then??

[shadowprophet]

In fact I had an idea for a homebrew console quite a while ago. I think Its a great idea. however the homebrew scene would need to grow a little, we need more people interested in this idea. maybe some hard moders could come up with a few ideas based on pc parts or something ?

[tgm123]

I have a 300 gig hard drive in my xbox and emulate everything from crappy calculators right up to Playstation 1, Not that well though but the rest are perfect emulators including N64, it can even run linux and emulate windows 98 what more could you ask for?

And immagine the emulation possibilities with the Xbox 360? A triple core processor running at approx 9ghz!!!!!!!

[Is'lan]

Yeah, I probably wouldn't waste my money on it. What would it be able to do that a PC can't? At least with the gp2x it's a handheld.

[Chuthbert]

There is one thing with all of that already included... it's called a PC

A homebrew console don't sell well.
Yep.

[Amigamul8r]

Hi!

I have such a thing: A notebook! In my opinion it is perfect for this.

But i would like to have a small handheld with homebrew software - especially emulators. I can imagine a fast version of the gp2x. Today a 600Mhz handheld is possible. How about a quad core cpu?

And a display like a psp, but a touchscreen like on pocket pcs. So emulation of systems that have a mouse would be possible.

Those were just some ideas...

Greetings

Tobias

[Vegetable]

There is one thing with all of that already included... it's called a PC

Discussion over.

[Turn2]

You don't have to chip an Xbox just a soft mod. Its gotten to be easier than the old Dreamcast days. The Xbox also make great media extenders. I can keep my videos on my pc and stream them to my TV through the Xbox not to mention all of the emulation and old pc ports to the xbox.

If you don't have a Xbox you better get one because the market for the used ones is already starting to go back up and I suspect just for this reason. It is close to perfect for a homebrew console.

The PS3 running Linux to my understanding only runs slightly faster or about equal to a 800MHz PC and it costs 5 times as much as a used Xbox.

[nebulator]

I err .third or forth the whole xbrick idea, however i think it isn't exactly what is asked for, a homebrew console being one made just for that, and with surrport and to make it easy for stuff to be developed for it .. or something ..

[drEDN4wt]

this is what you want...
..it even comes with a handle.
http://206.14.132.88/products/Travla/c134/C134.html

[BrooksyX]

Yeah I say that the PC is the greatest homebrew console ever but to have a decent one it may cost you a lot of money.

If I were to say the specs on a good homebrew console I would go with a 1ghz x86 cpu, 256mb shared ram, decent video chipset, 40gb upgradeable HDD, Standard dvd drive, Ethernet for ftp/online. usb ports, customizable linux os. $200

But basically what you are buying is a cheap linux box. So I don't think that now days something like that would sell.

[RibStabsHeart]

I love my XBOX. Playing most all games with an actual controller on my TV is amazing. I need a good/full set of DOS games though, for memory sakes.

The main thing it needs is for EPSXE to pull the stick out of their ass and release the source to people can port it to xbox. PCSXE is a ****ing terrible emulator about 75% of the time.

[mnky]

um, xgp anyone?

[Herbster]

Won't a PS3 running Linux do what you want?

[Veskgar]

Wow, I had no idea that the XBOX was such a versatile homebrew mega-machine. Full speed N64 Emulator? Damn.

I actually saved my old XBOX and it is in great condition. I want to soft mod it but I'm not sure if I can. What if I played Halo 2 on XBOX live a while back? I'm sure Microsoft put some sort of update on it to not allow soft mod, right?

I have one of the games that has the linux installer but now I need Action Replay right?

[J_Villa1983]

I believe it could be done by reengineering a version of linux, almost like TIVO. Next create a battleplan of what specifics are needed. For example, Decide whats going to be the lowest processor to be supported and create everything to work off of that. For instance, If someone has a more powerful machine.. it wont take anymore advantage than the lowest processor speed supported (just to keep development on a level playing field).
Next after some standard like that is created license it out the OS like what was done with the 3DO back in the early 90's. Except.. don't hire Trip to run it. =)
The problem that I have lies with getting people to trust it with their dollars as a platform. I have tried many different "based on open source" products and I have mixed feelings on it. Tivo is impressive and I'm not too thrilled with the gp2x.. The unit itself is kind of cool but the corporate support really sucks. So if you could get a decent group of people behind it, it may be a cool idea to build not just for video games but as a complete media center solution.

-JV

[Christuserloeser]

I think the GP2X is the closest you're going to get

Yeah, and it has a TV out :)


Other than that, you can produce and sell homebrew games for Dreamcast, so that's probably the closest to what you've described.

[mentalmummy]

I think it would run a version of linux designed to boot quickly and require minimal user intervention (ie a nice graphic display controllable with a joypad used to select items on screen) so the user has the benefits of a console and a pc without needing to be a pc savvy person.

I think a 1.5 Ghz cpu, 40 Gb hdd, low cost Nvidia gfx card with tv out (say one of the 6600 series?), wireless networking card and digital joypad would be good.

While it is true such a thing is essentially a pc it is a very user friendly one requiring minimal user knowledge and intervention and people would pay for a decent console system able to play films, music, games, emulators etcetera out of the box.

That`s one thing that attracted me to the GP2X and before that the Xbox (once it had been altered to have XMBC on it).

People will pay for an all in one unit :)

[kiore]

As a few have already suggested ,a pc is the best you'll get.

[spudhead2121]

How about a 3.2 Cell cpu, 256 of ram, 60 GB HDD, WiFi, 500 mhz GPU, BR DVD Drive, HDMI, bluetooth, PS3 and Wii controller support, custom Linux OS and for under cost price of about $600.

If you have not guest I'm talking about the PS3 with a customized Linux OS made for games. I think homebrew works best on hijack hardware. A PS3 and Wii controller are just the best combo.

[J_Villa1983]

How about a 3.2 Cell cpu, 256 of ram, 60 GB HDD, WiFi, 500 mhz GPU, BR DVD Drive, HDMI, bluetooth, PS3 and Wii controller support, custom Linux OS and for under cost price of about $600.

with the luck they've been having it REALLY doesn't inspire confidence in "made with open source products" does it? I'm not saying it wouldn't be cool to hack it though.

[Sterist]

yur cpu n ram choices carry a hefty price tag

[gs01rnb]

The dreamcast fitted the bill nicely as far as the homebrew scene, would be nice if there was a dreamcast 2.0, updating the system but keeping the lack of protection intact

[/.Revenge]

There wouldn't be much of a reason to choose a homebrew console over a pc.
The only advantage would be that it would provide developers with a standardized
platform which would reduce, if not eliminate, hardware compatibility issues.

[Turn2]

Wow, I had no idea that the XBOX was such a versatile homebrew mega-machine. Full speed N64 Emulator? Damn.

I actually saved my old XBOX and it is in great condition. I want to soft mod it but I'm not sure if I can. What if I played Halo 2 on XBOX live a while back? I'm sure Microsoft put some sort of update on it to not allow soft mod, right?

I have one of the games that has the linux installer but now I need Action Replay right?


Actualy you can get on live with a softod but you have to use one of the new ones. If you want the know how go here and start reading the forums

http://www.xbox-hq.com/html/

everything that you would need to know is there tons of VIP members to help out as well.

[curt_grymala]

wouldnt it be a homebrew
not an homebrew

Not if you're a Brit, like Wraggy.

In proper English, the letter "h" is always preceded by the article "an" rather than "a". I think it has something to do with the fact that the "h" is supposed to be a silent letter when properly pronounced.

Anyway - I really don't think a homebrew console would get very far, as software is where console manufacturers make most of their money.

I could definitely see making a reasonably sized computer case, and placing some decent hardware inside, then making it compatible with televisions, but it would never really make any money for anyone.

[opiate81]

yeah a pc does it for sure or if you like console games as well go for an xbox
I'd save my xbox after my missus if my house was burning!! it has 2x250 GB HDD`s and a 10GB (for Linux)
I have about 1GB of homebrew and HEAPS of emulators
its my multimedia and gaming heart.. Id be lost without it!!

[shadowprophet]

I don't know. To me something just seems narrow minded about snubbing a homebrew console idea just because if its similarities to a pc. in the same turn that would have been like the wright brothers asking do we need airplanes, And some small narrow minded group of people standing up and saying. No we already have boats and trains.

The whole Idea that a big cumbersome pc is a suitable replacement idea for a true homebrew console. just doesn't cut it.
In the same turn and in fairness bill gates could have asked does the world really need an X-box and the world could have Said, No we already have at least one Big ugly pc in our homes, why do we need another.

[snkrock25]

there already is one. its called the dreamcast. idunno if you missed it. but this site is named after the device.:confused:

[shadowprophet]

there already is one. its called the dreamcast. idunno if you missed it. but this site is named after the device.:confused:

ummm. Somehow, I think you missed the point of this entire thread. But thats okay, nobodys perfect ;)

[bm4n]

You just described 100% a modded Xbox...You can do w/e you want and its almost the same as PC programming...This "dream console" you keep bringing up, Wrag, is not really a good idea. If you want to make games use what we have which is PCs, Xboxes, and now XBLA via XNA on the Xbox360. All powerful, all useful, all relatively simple to learn...Why make a new machine that will fail because it will have no commercial games when we already have 3 great platforms?

[Vangar]

That console your talking about is a PC =P. In fact a homebrew console wouldn't work because so many people have PCs that do the exact same.

EDIT: About the plane thing. We couldn't fly before without planes, what could we do with a homebrew console that we can't do with a PC?

[jaycee900]

Why do people keep saying the PC is the best console...the PC is infact what its letters are standing for 'personal computer' note the computer word at the end, a console in pure gaming terms means just that a 'console' that only plays games i.e master system, snes, playstation, xbox etc. A computer is an object that do several things i.e atari st, amiga, pc, mac, c64, speccy etc

So Wrag knows what he means when he states a homebrew console, but he also means completely open source, where as the xbox and dreamcast are not open source even though they already have emulators and homebrew on them.

But anyway, but on topic, IF there was a chance of an open source console being made just for that purpose then firstly and probably it wouldnt happen as the hardware would have to be at a profit to be worthwhile unless its a joined project with each unit being sold at production cost for the community.
Spec wise at least 1ghz cpu, 256mb gpu, 256mb ram, a sd slot is not practicle on a console, CD drive, dvd is not really needed, 4xusb slots for controllers/and or mouse, keyboard combo, cheap sound card and rgb scart, vga connectors.

[dejkirkby]

I kinda agree with Shadowprophet here. Stating that a PC or a modded Xbox does this isn't really answering the question. That would be like telling Microsoft "We don't want the Zune because we have the iPod or telling Sony we don't want the PS3 as we have the Wii (Well maybe not with the 2nd example.)
The specs I would really like for this project are as follows.
1ghz or higher processor, preferably AMD.
512 DDR2 ram
40+GB HDD
2 usb ports, I think that would be adequate.
Any sort of TV-out
Any decent sound card.
On a serious note, if this project ever saw the light of day I think the support for it would surprise a lot of the big software houses.

[knownX]

why limit yourself to a console. Like he said up top pcs are the best console. ever changing pcs get faster and faster and for homebrew it is limitless a console was a good thought but if so you would need to be upgradeable to fit the needs of a very wide crowed and the pcs done that pretty well.

[inlovewithi]

Enough with the PC. All I want is a console that would aloud me to play all of my old system on my TV, using S-Video, without having to take them out of the closet. I think that's the point of the article. That's why I've been thinking of getting an X-BOX. Because of stress, I rather have things simple, just turn the power on, and pick the game I want to play. Computers complicate things, and they're noisier, and requires a lot more configuration. I would have to set my computer closer to my TV, and have to deal with the resolution every time I'll have to use it. I'm getting stressed out just thinking about it. I now want to live in a bubble and not play any games for 2 years. Just give me an X-BOX that sits next to my TV.

[Turn2]

I understand wraggster's post, but I think all of the answers here just answer the question rather than avoid it. I don't think there is any money to be made by developing manufacturing and marketing a dedicated homebrew console. it is much easier to use a pc or the like (my idea a cheap one) that is fast enough to run all of the emus. As far as actual game develpment goes any developer of games with out millions to spend or the equivilent of the hours of work needed to use up those millions would not ever need anything larger than a maxed out 1 Ghz range PC to run the games. Take a look at how long it takes to develope a homebrew dreamcast game.

I think the best you could do is to create a line of Console type cases with a built in power supply made to match the case and be able to mount lets say a baby ATX board and standard PC parts to a persons liking. Just make the boxes with the USB ports on the front and some type of PCI or AGP cable to plug into a slot so that the card can be mounted parallel with the MB.

If someone actually makes a mint off of this please find me and spare a guy a million. :)

[IndianCheese]

At least 750mhz

DEFINATELY CD/DVD drive/playback

Universal media card slots (SD/MMC/MS/CF)

That's all I would demand. Of course, it would have other specs, but I can see those as most important. It would also be crazy good if it ran off of a sort of Windows engine (even though Apple pwnz Microsoft) so we could port our favorite emulators to play all of our old games, in addition to the emulators that even played off of a disc, like ePSXe, so it would be an all-in-one console. I would love to be able to pop in a PlayStation disc, play for a while, swap it with a Dreamcast disc (like you can do on any PC with the right emulators), and jump right back into the game. The name of the console?

Tehbrew.

[jaycee900]

I think the best example for the people saying use a pc is using the pocket pc and gp2x as examples, people like to program and get the most out of hardware, i dont like the fact in some ways pc's are so upgradable that the developers hardly ever get the most out of hardware as in the same way as say the Amiga 500 was pushed to the max, the idea of a seperate console is the same as the gp2x, to have a community of people on a set standard of hardware, i mean there are faster open source platforms in pocket pc and palm units some of the new ones are using 1ghz xscale processors, the gp2x has dual 240mhz processors yet it has sold 30,000 units, people like developing for seperate machines more than pc orientated ones.

btw the name i would have would be : coshc (completely open source homebrew console)
yeah its crap but imagine how good the name could be if we took longer than 30 seconds to think of one!)

Other idea about this console is what emulators it would be able to run;
Obviously all the 8 bit and 16 bits machines, neo-geo, n64, ps1, cps2 etc but i know my comp struggles when trying to run some of the 3d intense mame games ridge racer onwards, if it was to be marketed then 3d would have to stick out to make people want to buy one.

[10shu]

the origami or umpc would be a good alternative...
pentium 1Ghz, 1go of ram, hd 60Go, touche screen, tv out, camera, etc...etc... just no gamepad!!! :)

Ive tested one...it run great with game like metalgearsolid, trackmania, midtownmadness, or emulator like mame, winuae, project64, etc...
you just need to have a usb game controler

[drewganov]

The homebrew console idea is fairly decent, and possibly you're looking at it from the wrong angle. Instead of just a high end CPU, why not take the "best of" chips from highly emulated systems, and set the architecture up to use the proper chip depending on the game to be played? A good example of this is in the DS. It has the GBA chip inside it to run GBA games. That would also contribute to higher success rates in emulation. I would include a decent CPU for more current applications as well. Just an idea.