German Past Haunts Gamers' Future

[wraggster]

Wired has up a very thoughtful article examining the current anti-violent gaming trends in Germany, and reflecting on their connection to WWII. Article author Bruce Gain discusses some of the history of post-Nazi Germany, and points out how violent games rile politics in that country by reminding it of its past. Says Gain:

"Some German officials link these games to an increase in violence among the young and cite at least one instance where a gamer applied the lessons learned from a first-person shooter to a real-life murderous rampage. Remove the connection, they argue, and you prevent further violence. Germany has a lot of gamers, but the violence found in many of these games is widely criticized there. It has some of the strictest video-game censorship laws in the Western world. For example, laws prohibit the sale of Counter-Strike and other titles with blood-depicting graphics switched on. But for many politicians, the laws don't go far enough."

via /. (http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/08/2110227)

[Broadus]

I HATE IT WHEN I'M REMINDED OF THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD! ESPECIALLY THE HISTORY OF MY OWN COUNTRY! YEARGH!!!

Germany can't have blood in their games? Jeez.
I've never played a single World War 2 game, save Return to Castle Wolfenstein, that had any sort of "extreme" violence. Just look at Call of Duty and Medal of Honor, the two most popular (more or less) WW2 FPS series. They always strive to keep their games rated below mature. Even Brothers in Arms and Day of Defeat don't have all that much violence in comparison to most other first-person-shooters.

[fatdad]

i think its because in all those games germany is seen as the bad guys.....

[Broadus]

You think WHAT'S because the Germans are seen as badguys?

Hey, I know a dude in Germany that likes Call of Duty.
Though I made a modification for Call of Duty that switched the Allies for the Axis (making the player a German), which is probably why he was so interested in my mod...
I've always wanted to see one WW2 FPS game where the player is an Axis soldier in a single player adventure.

[voorheesda]

Agreed that the germans are painted out as the bad guys....but then again...hitler was evil we can all agree with that. but its partially wrong.... and games are just like "interactive-movies" so if these guys are for sure :D then ban all movies too.

and yes....i would really love a game where you played the "evil" side.

[Cless_Elric]

My opinion? Germany as a whole is crazier now than EVER! Only it's in a suicidal way that doesn't harm others. Can they just be normal like americans for one lousy decade? It's either the now post-modern nihilistic beehive people, the previous evil nazi empire, the ancient maurauding barbarians... There's no moderate position for those wackos.

[mufasacasinos]

And tell me, in what way are Americans "normal"? Why is it that you would consider people - people from many different ethnicities, religions, and cultures - "normal" merely because of the country from which they hail?

I agree, in large part, with Germany. Violence in games has become overextended. Why should we glorify the slaughter of humans, even if they are merely a series of ones and zeros? Yes, to the machine that is all they are. But to the human mind, they can be real people, or rather, they can become real people.

Moderation is the key. I love games like Warcraft or similar RTS's, and even though I do not really like shooters, I know that there are some that are quite decent as far as violence is concerned. But blood and gore is only a promotion of violence.

[souLLy]

My opinion? Germany as a whole is crazier now than EVER! Only it's in a suicidal way that doesn't harm others. Can they just be normal like americans for one lousy decade? It's either the now post-modern nihilistic beehive people, the previous evil nazi empire, the ancient maurauding barbarians... There's no moderate position for those wackos.

keep your borderline racist views to yourself, even been to Germany, ever met any German people? Tell me one nation that doesn't have a history of violence, the fact that they're trying to move on from it shows they're not happy with the events of their past.

I would also say that 'normal like America' is a completely subjective thing and probably most people around the world would not find the American lifestyle normal, particularly the countries America is currently at war with.

[HepburnFan]

Hi!

The german "hunt for violent media" began in the early 80s. Our politicans just used the upcoming wave of horror-videos to make some propaganda ("Let's do some action, it's election-time soon!").

This worked, the people buyed it and hundrets of "dangerous movies" (classics like Romero's "Dawn of the Dead") got banned.

At next, they "had to do something" against the violent videogames (yes, we're still in the 80s and talking about stuff like "Barbarian" and other c64 classics -wich are STILL forbidden to sale to minors, even today in the year 2007!).

In cause of that, german gamers had to play badly censored videogames. Silly "cyborgs" instead of terrorists, green blood if you hit an enemy -in german game-versions shit like this is normal...

I think, "Mortal Kombat II" and "Manhunt" aren't games for Kids, that's right. But in my country they're forbidden, even for adults. That's stupid.

Our basic law says, there ist no censorship.

...but it seems, gamers (and filmfans) have no rights in germany...


Ok, my grandfathers made a mistake in the past -but we can't recover losses with censorship.

So, german cencorship is'nt really about working up traumatics. It's all about making propaganda, affect "doing something" and collect votes.

Our Politics can't fight unemployment, crime and real problems like that.

So they createt a virtual enemy, they can mess with.


greets,
hep


PS: My english isn't really good in writing, i hope you understand what i wanted to say with that^^

[Billo-Exx]

the tabloids are the baddest >_<
tehy state us with murders and so on and the half of germany believe those f*cking papers
Now there is a lawconstruct which says:
"selling oder contributing games with violent content is getting 1 year of prison sentence... well im 18 now and it doesnt interest me anymore but its kind of sad ohw dumb the state of our country is >_>

[John Vattic]

History is evil! Let's forget history and repeat mistakes!

p.s. LMAO@"normal" America

[HepburnFan]

History is evil! Let's forget history and repeat mistakes!

If we don't remind our history, wer're damned to make the same mistakes again and again, thats right.

But i think, it must be possible to remind our history and improve mistakes WITHOUT let it rule over our lives and WITHOUT using it as excuse for state control of our media.

Things went wrong in the past, thats right. But now we punish ourselfs with some kind of "violence-prohibition" in our media...?


It is just wrong to cut peoples rights with censorship and agitate them against something/one -THAT is a fact, i learned of our history...

[Cless_Elric]

keep your borderline racist views to yourself, even been to Germany, ever met any German people? Tell me one nation that doesn't have a history of violence, the fact that they're trying to move on from it shows they're not happy with the events of their past.

I would also say that 'normal like America' is a completely subjective thing and probably most people around the world would not find the American lifestyle normal, particularly the countries America is currently at war with.

I'm sorry If I was overly harsh, it was out of concern for the german people, not malice. The sickness of nihilism, of anomie, is very sad to me. Lest you doubt the severity, take a look at the empty schools in places that aren't being kept alive by immigrants... I just wish for them to be at ease, to feel relaxed and happy, to be "normal like americans"... that is all.

[Christuserloeser]

Wired has up a very thoughtful article examining the current anti-violent gaming trends in Germany, and reflecting on their connection to WWII. Article author Bruce Gain discusses some of the history of post-Nazi Germany, and points out how violent games rile politics in that country by reminding it of its past. Says Gain:

"Some German officials link these games to an increase in violence among the young and cite at least one instance where a gamer applied the lessons learned from a first-person shooter to a real-life murderous rampage. [...]"

Nazi's didn't play Counter Strike. ;)

...also I am a bit curious why they did forbit games like Wolfenstein 3D and any other FPS that came after that which allows you to play against Nazis. In my opinion that just proves how little has changed. The German state and the general public still does show a lot of respect for their facist history (jaja, "good ol' times") and many authorities try everything to support rewriting history to make Nazi-Germany look better than it actually was. There's the actual problem.

Two examples: The great Dresden swindle (poor Germans beeing mass-murdered by evil Allies), genocide exhibitions run by "Human Rights" government organizations putting German war casulties on the same level as Jewish victims during the Shoa, etc.



I've always wanted to see one WW2 FPS game where the player is an Axis soldier in a single player adventure.

There are MANY games by German 'developers' that allow you to do that. I would refuse to play anything like that. I fail to see the reason anyone would actually want to play anything like that, but oh well...

mumbles something about a lost cause...



There's no moderate position for those wackos.

I actually tend to agree with you there. As soon as this country is fully respected, they'll use it for their own purpose. They already do.

If I'd have been asked, GDR & FRG should never have been "united" in the first place (read: FRG bought the GDR). At least in the GDR the state tried to fight facism - That never was the case with the FRG and it still isn't. They just covered everything up.



If we don't remind our history, wer're damned to make the same mistakes again and again, thats right.

But i think, it must be possible to remind our history and improve mistakes WITHOUT let it rule over our lives and WITHOUT using it as excuse for state control of our media.

Well, history doesn't rule my life. I rule my life. At least I try.

Also, I don't think they're using it as an excuse for the control of the media. They use the control of the media it because it worked for them in the past (heck, it's even been the same people running the media as were in Nazi-Germany).

They also always and still use(d) their control of the media to cover what my and your grandfather REALLY did in their youth (shooting Russians, Amercians, bombing UK to hell, being members of the SA/SS/NSDAP without beeing forced to become member, etc.). My grandfather was soilder fighting for Nazi-Germany in Soviet-Russia and he never told me a single word of what he did there. I am pretty sure that's the same as what the entire generation of his did: cover it up until you die.



It is just wrong to cut peoples rights with censorship and agitate them against something/one -THAT is a fact, i learned of our history...

Good point :)



keep your borderline racist views to yourself, even been to Germany, ever met any German people? Tell me one nation that doesn't have a history of violence, the fact that they're trying to move on from it shows they're not happy with the events of their past.

It's impossible to judge a lot of people by having met a few or been to a country on vacation.

Also the comparision to other nations' dark past is not and never was a good excuse for facism.

[Cap'n 1time]

My opinion? Germany as a whole is crazier now than EVER! Only it's in a suicidal way that doesn't harm others. Can they just be normal like americans for one lousy decade? It's either the now post-modern nihilistic beehive people, the previous evil nazi empire, the ancient maurauding barbarians... There's no moderate position for those wackos.

Germany is controlled by their own conservative Christian right correct? If it is in any way similar to the christian right we have here in America, then they are undoubtedly crazy and unethical... Though I'm thinking they are quite different.

As for the "barbarians" comment. Considering the white peoples of England that live there today are descendants of anglo saxons (who were rather barbaric) and sometimes a cross between that and roman blood (who also started out as barbarians), I dont think It is very fair to talk about the ancient history of a country and use it to describe the people today.

[Christuserloeser]

Germany is controlled by their own conservative Christian right correct? If it is in any way similar to the christian right we have here in America, then they are undoubtedly crazy and unethical... Though I'm thinking they are quite different.

Yeah, they are very different. Positiv about the Christian right here (CDU/CSU represent them in our parlament) is that they seem to be not as Anti-American as our "left" and at least appear to be Pro-Israel. At the same time, they are the ones with a huge organization of Nazi ancestors ('Bund der Vertiebenen', now a "Human Rights" organisation) on their back.

The Social-Democrats (SPD) once were similar to Labour or the Democrats in the US I think, though they seem to be much more conservative and libertarian than what you know in the US or UK. They are exactly as much nationalists on one hand and EU fanatics on the other as the Christian right. Thinking of it, except for the Anti-American thing I can't seem to find any difference at all between both parties. That must be the reason why they are governing together now. ^^

The communists are pretty much dead since 1989. What's left of the former socialist GDR's government (PDS. Die Linke) is a bunch of sad Anti-American idiots that now fill the gap when the Social-Democrats once again moved to the right (1998 with Schröder). I still voted for them since we're lacking any alternative and at least they still have a tiny little bit of potential.

[Cap'n 1time]

The communists are pretty much dead since 1989. What's left of the former socialist GDR's government (PDS. Die Linke) is a bunch of sad Anti-American idiots that now fill the gap when the Social-Democrats once again moved to the right (1998 with Schröder). I still voted for them since we're lacking any alternative and at least they still have a tiny little bit of potential.

If by anti-american you mean anti-meaningless war and anti-bush they they perhaps have a little bit more in common with the average American today then you would think.

[Christuserloeser]

If by anti-american you mean anti-meaningless war and anti-bush they they perhaps have a little bit more in common with the average American today then you would think.

I guess it's more the kind of beeing Anti-American in general and of beeing Anti-Bush and Anti-War as an excuse for hating everything American. But that should not be reduced to the German left by all means, it's a general problem in Germany and the rest of the world too.

[MaxSMoke]

What is up with German's and their contempt of personal space? It seems like they just love to play Big-Brother to each other and lord of what everybody else does. It's this kinda thinking that got them into two world wars, and will undoubtfully bring alot more trouble and grief in the future. They should spend less time worrying about video games, and more time fixing their dwindling economics that lead to poverty.. and there in.. violence.

[MaxSMoke]

And another thing, ENOUGH WITH THE GERMAN BASHING! Maybe if there were a few games were the German's WEREN'T the bad guys, maybe they wouldn't have such a low opinion of games.

It's worth noting that WWII propaganda, on BOTH SIDES, was pretty heavy. Each side vilifying the other with alot of allegations, hyping up the negative, and ignoring their own atrocities. And yes, the Allies did plenty of civilian killing. Bad things happen in war. But this war was like 60 years ago. We haven't held a grudge against Japan that long, and they did much worse against the Koreans, Philipios, and Chinese.

Maybe if a certain Religous/Politial group wasn't busy hyping German history for their own political ends, the world could finally move past this small speed-bump in history and things would improve for the better.

That is, unless we all WANT to see Germany move further into the same kinda Isolationism that started the first two world wars. Video games and movies are just the starting block in a very bad trend. Some positive German roll models in movies and games could go a long ways towards reversing this trend. You can't vilify somebody, insult their heritage, and expect them to remain open and friendly. Respect is a two-way street.

[Christuserloeser]

They should spend less time worrying about video games, and more time fixing their dwindling economics that lead to poverty.. and there in.. violence.

Good point. I think the whole ban on video games and blaming games for the recent increase in violence is nothing but a tactical move to draw attention away from politicians actually beeing responsible for the fast growing poverty of vast parts of the population. The sell-out of state property during the past 17 years has nothing but the goal to enable German companies to rule the European market. (Remember when RWE bought London's water supplier?)

To get back on topic: That means I don't think it's really Germany's past that haunts gamer's future.



And another thing, ENOUGH WITH THE GERMAN BASHING! Maybe if there were a few games were the German's WEREN'T the bad guys, maybe they wouldn't have such a low opinion of games.

I have to live here, I can bash as much as I want =P

Also, there are many games where Germans aren't your enemies: Mario, Sonic, Tetris, Sega Rally, and I am sure there are some I forgot. ^^

Also why do you think Nazis = all Germans ? Nazis for me are Nazis. They do not represent each and every German. We got plenty of other folks here too, like libertarians and other funny people. ^^

Anyway, I really do enjoy killing Nazis in a video game. There's nothing wrong with that.


It's worth noting that WWII propaganda, on BOTH SIDES, was pretty heavy. Each side vilifying the other with alot of allegations, hyping up the negative, and ignoring their own atrocities. And yes, the Allies did plenty of civilian killing. Bad things happen in war. But this war was like 60 years ago. We haven't held a grudge against Japan that long, and they did much worse against the Koreans, Philipios, and Chinese.

Much what ? Worse ?

I mean, I am well aware that Japan was facist too. What they did against China (which was already a democracy at that time) can not be forgiven. Perhaps one should be more careful with Japanese politics and history too ;)

The main difference is that Japan didn't have much of a choice. It wasn't a democracy and the kaiser of Japan decided to join the Axis.

As you might know German was a democracy when they elected Hitler and they very well knew what his goals were. And what I know is that people in Germany actually enjoyed what they did: wiping out 35 Million Russians, trying to exctinct all Jewish life and culture, fighting communism, democracy, homosexuality and so on, for them seemed to be the right thing to do. And that's just been 60 years ago. There are people still living here that were 20, 30 or even 40 years old at that time.



Maybe if a certain Religous/Politial group wasn't busy hyping German history for their own political ends, the world could finally move past this small speed-bump in history and things would improve for the better.

I don't think I actually understood what you wrote there. But if you meant what think you meant, you aren't really worth my time talking to you.



That is, unless we all WANT to see Germany move further into the same kinda Isolationism that started the first two world wars.

Please check your facts. Isolationism didn't start any of those wars. The German population and authorities had the freedom of choice and are fully responsible for their actions. It's not that people are that stupid over here.



Video games and movies are just the starting block in a very bad trend. Some positive German roll models in movies and games could go a long ways towards reversing this trend. You can't vilify somebody, insult their heritage, and expect them to remain open and friendly. Respect is a two-way street.

There always were and still are plenty of fantastic German role models (Marx, Luxemburg, Kant, just to name a few). It's just that no one cares.

Anyway, I agree with you that disrespecting someone for their heritage would be good choice. Still, you should choose carefully who actually deserves your respect and who not.

[Shadowblind]

Get it people. You CANNOT judge the people in a country by what its political leaders do. This includes the US, Germany, Britain, and all countries. The country as a whole is not bad, whether or not its political system is corrupt.

MORAL: Dont judge people by what the country they live in does.