Do You Believe In Aliens?

[ExcruciationX]

Just cause I feel like it, I put a poll up to see what you people believe in.

[Triv1um]

I believe there are aliens, but not the propper stereotypical alien.

Just, i know we are here, so there must be something out there.

[shadowprophet]

The universe is so vast. with each star in the sky representing a possible solar system, or galaxy.

People often underestimate the vast size of even a single galaxy, With our galaxy "the milkey way" our entire solar system being only the size of a pin hole on the outer edge.

To concive the Universe in all its vastness, and truly understand that even our imagination cant reach so far as to understand that.

To Believe that we are the only life in this vast universe, Is truly narrow minded.

[weirdelf]

I'm a retard:p

[bullhead]

There must be. Also, did you once say you saw a space ship EX?

[ExcruciationX]

Yep. :)

[Cap'n 1time]

I think the chances are highly unlikely that we are the only planet to produce life. I cant say for sure about intelligent life (it seems we are sort of special) but I imagine it's out there too.

[SnesR0X]

Has to be something else out there, but I'm not convinced they've gotten anywhere close to earth yet, For fun Ex, I think you should work out how long it would take for us to get to the next galaxy at light speed, how many years would it take?

[Sonicboy 101]

Of course they're real. How else would Ex be here? :D

[JKKDARK]

yes, of course

[gdf]

pretty obvious. there must be some intelligent life in our gigantic universe.

[joshisposer]

I think there has to be. If we are the only living things in the whole universe, then the universe is pretty much doomed...

[shadowprophet]

I've met people who have varied perceptions of the universe.

I even once met a fully adult lady in her 30's that thought the sun went out at night and was indeed the moon "only with the lights turned off" As painful as it is for me "not to" I didn't laugh at her.

It dawned upon me that astronomy is just another subject that some people suck at. Like geography or state capitals. So its easy to understand that when someone wants to get a point across. Its best to have all evidence that support your theory readily available.

I would like to start off with a simple google image of The entirety of the known universe.


http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7682/universe1pf2.jpg


This simple pseudo 3d image represents all the known universe to date with the most advanced technology science has to offer. This includes radio imaging, inferred scans and microwave telescopic resonance imaging, Which is well known for its incredibly high frequency, I wont go off on a rant, But ill give a simple explanation. As you know, a microwave is simply a wave like any other with an incredibly high concentrate of peaks and dips. this " high definition wave" is used because it can travel great distances and accurately gage measurements like size and density of objects that other means of technology could never hope to reach.

Anyhow. on to the pic. This pic is a 3D image of the known universe.

If this image where scale, "which at some inconceivable fraction, It most likely is"

At that scale. We don't have the technology to see our galaxy on this map, "It would be so miniscule that even the most sophisticated microscope "in all the world" wouldn't be able to detect our faint presence on this, "The KNOWN universe"

But that's just the beginning. This is after all just a representation of what technology can allow us to see. And even mighty technology has its limits.

But this Box represents all we know. yet you can clearly see this mass continues outside of what we are able to see , it just goes on.
An even more plausible thought would be. This is what we can see of our universe, But in the long run this is only a cursory glance at the sky with a magnified glass. Even inside this apparently ongoing mass of galaxies and stars, there will be discoveries we could have never imagined. and as one could assume this scale image of the known universe, is little more then a peace of a larger possibly infinite and ongoing "vast reality"

It's painfully obvious that in our own lifetimes and the lifetimes of countless generations beyond us. we wont possess the technology to fully explore even our own galaxy. " its estimated that traveling at the speed of light it would still take countless generations to cross "our milky way".

To give you a momentum to work with, it takes the light from our own sun eight minuets to reach us here on earth. Some stars have went through there entire birth to death cycle" billions of years" before their light even begins to peak in our most sophisticated technology. Think about that for a second.....

For all we really know, outside those walls if what we know to be the known universe. there are stars and planets the size of this entire area the scale represents.

When facing an infinite universe. One absolutely must be open to a mirid of different possibilities.

Now how big is the universe really? Yeah, 100 out of 100 %, there is life out there beyond earth.

[The King]

wow shadow u know wat ur talking about
i have always believe that they are ET's out there because it would realy suck if we were the only intelligence life forms out there

[mexicansnake]

Yep, big and nasty aliens!!!

JK

[ExcruciationX]

Traveling the speed of light is a waste. There's too many draw backs, including your mass would get very large, and you would travel 100s of years into the future.

I think the best way to do it is to figure out how to travel to a different dimension. Then, we can start exploring.

[Kaiser]

Yeah I do. The universe is simply too vast for us to be alone.


Plus I've always thought it be cool if our future was somewhat like Star Trek (crazy adventures and all).

[SnesR0X]

Traveling the speed of light is a waste. There's too many draw backs, including your mass would get very large, and you would travel 100s of years into the future.

I think the best way to do it is to figure out how to travel to a different dimension. Then, we can start exploring.

You are convinced that alternate dimensions are real?

[joshisposer]

I'm not sure about other dimensions, i'm not sure either way, but more in the there is way. I think, there is someone just like me, not really an evil twin, that is doing the same thing as i am. Not like the Futurama episode where they sort of are opposites with decisions though

[BrooksyX]

I don't believe in aliens because it goes against my beliefs but I do think about it sometimes. The universe is a huge place and to think we are the only ones in such a huge space. If the universe was a person the earth would be like one tiny cell in the its huge body. So basically I don't believe in them but I haven't completely ruled out the possibility.

[eatnooM]

Traveling the speed of light is a waste. There's too many draw backs, including your mass would get very large, and you would travel 100s of years into the future.

I think the best way to do it is to figure out how to travel to a different dimension. Then, we can start exploring.

Without going on about alternate dimensions and whatnot, you're understating a little on the special relativity front :p

EDIT: Where's the "Yeah, but **** knows what they'd be like" option? ^^

[shadowprophet]

I think science fiction has distorted many a persons understanding of what a dimension is.

people have these fantastic notions of other parallel worlds that co reside with our own, possibly counter us, yet, in another plane that we are unable to access.

A basic understanding of mathematics and common since would tell one many truths.
If they could only accept the truth once it where presented to them.
We live in the third dimension. That being height width and depth. 3d.
The second dimension only representing height and width.
and the first only representing one of those three characteristics.
These are the dimensions of physical reality. And in such we need them to live.
If one where magically able to travel to another dimension, what happens when they land in a dimension that doesn't support the three necessary ones they need to exists?

"ouch, height and width , but no depth= would most certainly equal death"

Some people even believe that gravity " like that of a black hole found at the center of every galaxy"
because of its inconceivable power can warp and distort time, That also is a misconception.
Time is not a tangible object, In fact time is only a conception we humans conceived to measure the passage of natural deterioration of mass. (everything has a beginning and end, what's new will eventually become worn out and old. what's old will eventually cease) and time is merely an idea or perception imposed on us, a form of measurement if you will, " could we really possess the power to travel through an intangible form of measurement?
When we have such theories as "time travel is possible", when its well known that time is just an intangible measurement. An idea that masks a concept that we truly have no understanding of.


Time travel will never be possible, That's why its important to live each day like its your last, Because you never know what tomorrow will bring.

Since the beginning of modern science people have always been prone to fantasies, and at every turn someone is always taking the easy way out. This theory cant be proven wrong as we don't have the power to wield a black hole or the technology to achieve the speed of light. So therefore,
Light speed travel must allow us to travel in circles so fast we would meet ourselves, and black holes instead of natures gravitational death traps, Must be portals to other worlds and times.

Science sure does have a long way to go before its grown up. You can clearly see this in some of the almost child like ideas pseudo science spouts off today.

Einstein believed that if one could travel fast enough they could travel through time.

But the laws of motion in its basic principal state that once an object is moved its not in the same place it was. so even if you could move as the speed of light your not going to run into yourself, "because there you are in the present" The same place you have always been and always will be.
at the very least you would find a streak of light much akin to a vapor trail, and that's it.


Not to be an ass or anything. But I truly hope i've dashed a few dreams with this post.
The ever practical SP.

[ExcruciationX]

I agree with you, SP.

When there's a will, there's a way. Of course, I won't live to see it, and our race probably won't see it either.

[eatnooM]

Einstein believed that if one could travel fast enough they could travel through time.


http://xkcd.com/c209.html

Ambiguity ftw :]

[shadowprophet]

http://xkcd.com/c209.html

Ambiguity ftw :]
lol I like that, :thumbup:

The natural progression of time is the only form of time travel conceivable :cool:

[White_Hawk_UK]

Scenario one: God created us.
Outcome: All life in the universe is on Earth, and everything revolves around it, because um... it's all there for us to marvel at... or something.

Scenario two: We evolved.
Outcome: Probability dictates that it is extremely unlikely that we are alone, and that there is certainly intelligent life out there.

Scenario three: Aliens did it.
Outcome: The Earth is a goldfish bowl; we just haven't noticed yet. There's nothing to marvel at, as it's all just cheap furnishing in some great cosmic apartment.
__________

My opinion on faster-than-light travel: Einie was dead-on. Nothing with mass exceeds the speed of light... or technically, even comes close to it.
Solution: Negate mass! Warp has problems, but it's less implausible than FTL travel.

Time travel: Time is an abstract concept, as insubstantial as the number zero, though probably conceived of much earlier than 'zero' was.
IMO: You might alter the rate at which you traverse time, but there's no reverse. Please keep limbs inside at all times, and wait for the ride to come to a complete stop before getting off.
__________

I hope that wasn't too disruptive... *scarper*

[Yobumtin]

Like everyone else has said, there has to be other intelligent life forms in this universe.

[SSaxdude]

People who believe in aliens are on the same level as people who believe in ghosts/near death experiences/talking to the dead/conspiracy theories in my book.

[White_Hawk_UK]

So your opinion is that Earth harbours the only life in the universe, against all the odds, and that we got here by some cosmic accident that, despite the incomprehensibly vast numbers of other viable planets throughout the universe, has not happened anywhere else; not in the billions of years longer that the universe has existed than this humble little solar system? o.O

[joshisposer]

I don't believe in aliens because it goes against my beliefs but I do think about it sometimes. The universe is a huge place and to think we are the only ones in such a huge space. If the universe was a person the earth would be like one tiny cell in the its huge body. So basically I don't believe in them but I haven't completely ruled out the possibility.

I'm sorry, i just don't like that. When a religion/belief holds you back to what you actually believe in. I think a child should decide what religion he believes in the most and maybe have the parents help him. Religion is too wacky where it actually tries to change the way you want to think to the point where you don't want to believe it because of your beliefs, not because of what you think is true.

[VampDude]

I believe in there being a colony of ExcruciationX's roaming a galaxy far far away

[ExcruciationX]

People who believe in aliens are on the same level as people who believe in ghosts/near death experiences/talking to the dead/conspiracy theories in my book.
So, you're calling us stupid, eh?

The idea of an extraterrestrial being isn't so far off, "dude". Don't write us off as incompetent, blood bags, when you should listen to us and take what we say into consideration instead of a fairy tale.

I have to admit, most of the conspiracy theories you hear are pretty dumb, like the Moon Landings, and the Klu Klux Klan running K.F.C one. Here's what I believe in, just because I feel like it.

I do believe in ghosts.

I do believe in near-death experiences (take some Ketamine :p), although I'm not sure it could be a soul rising from the body, rather it could be some sort of Extra Sensory Perception thing, like for example floating up on to the roof and seeing a red shoe there, and when people actually go up there, they see it. The mind is powerful. It wouldn't surprise me.

I do not believe someone could talk to the dead, although I'm open for debate on this one.

I do not believe in most conspiracy theories. The mind likes to match stuff up, so it can be stored easier (Like seeing faces in clouds, or Dark Side Of The Oz). But some of these could be true, especially since our government likes to make them look stupid (like Aliens). When anybody with basic scientific knowledge comes along and says "Dude, that couldn't have been a hot air ballon distorted by desert air!", they get a dunce hat thrown on their head.

[SnesR0X]

I think people who believe in ghosts are a little messed up, to say the least. ( To be fair, you put the no option saying they're a retard)

[BrooksyX]

I'm sorry, i just don't like that. When a religion/belief holds you back to what you actually believe in. I think a child should decide what religion he believes in the most and maybe have the parents help him. Religion is too wacky where it actually tries to change the way you want to think to the point where you don't want to believe it because of your beliefs, not because of what you think is true.

There is more solid proof that Christianity is true and the only way to heaven then there is that Aliens exist. I am not going to go against my beliefs and believe in a very abstract idea of Aliens. Much of the hype around the existence of Aliens are based on practical jokes. Yes its fun to think sometimes that there is someone else out there in the Universe, but all my thoughts on this subject come from fictional stories, games, and movies.

[ExcruciationX]

I think people who believe in ghosts are a little messed up, to say the least. ( To be fair, you put the no option saying they're a retard)
I'm not messed up. I believe in them.

Oh, guys I forgot to tell you. Remember that freaky experience I had at that house (a guy had died there)? Well, apparently the figure I saw in the window was my friend that was wearing aluminium foil to try and scare me.

But that doesn't explain the tap on my shoulder...

And the retard thing is a joke. It's my odd humor. :p


There is more solid proof that Christianity is true and the only way to heaven then there is that Aliens exist. I am not going to go against my beliefs and believe in a very abstract idea of Aliens. Much of the hype around the existence of Aliens are based on practical jokes. Yes its fun to think sometimes that there is someone else out there in the Universe, but all my thoughts on this subject come from fictional stories, games, and movies.
Don't take this as an insult, but you sound just like the dumb clucks at my school, closed-minded, not willing to look at other's ideas, dismissing them as B.S, while they're dangling on a one inch thread above the Grand Canyon.

[SnesR0X]

well, I believe that when you die, you rot in the ground

nuff' said

[ExcruciationX]

well, I believe that when you die, you rot in the ground

nuff' said
Whoa, man, that's such a cool theory. It could be true! :p

[SnesR0X]

Whoa, man, that's such a cool theory. It could be true! :p

I shall trademark it

[ICE]

yes there are aliens. i pass them almost everyday leaving my house as they are working construction for a subdivision. HUNDREDS I SAY HUNDREDS!!! stupid mexicans....

[SnesR0X]

yes there are aliens. i pass them almost everyday leaving my house as they are working construction for a subdivision. HUNDREDS I SAY HUNDREDS!!! stupid mexicans....

ok...

[ICE]

ok...alright then.

[SnesR0X]

alright then.

i just didn't think it was funny

[ICE]

who said i was joking?

[SnesR0X]

who said i was joking?

so you're really mad at mexicans who only get minimum wage?

[ICE]

lol yeah go back to mexico and eat a burrito j/k. im just saying that i believe in aliens because they work down the road from my house. just stating that this poll was poorly worded... extra-terrestrials not aliens man. theres a difference...

[joshisposer]

snes, where we are from, well atleast for me, making fun of them is alright. I'm above the border where it is disturbing of how many illegal "aliens" are in our country. They actually line up in front of walmarts and wait for jobs. I hate them damn mexicans, they should come here legally and learn ƒucking english so my school doesn't get more ƒucked up.
I believe in ghosts though. There is a haunted hotel that I can visit, like 2 hour drive thats pretty nice. A woman died in one of the rooms. They kept her dress in the closet. Its pretty cool because she will actually mess with your shit. No joke, it's not the manager, it's the dead woman. My sister left makeup out in plastic bags and it was opened and used. Stuff will be moved, IT IS AWESOME!
You can pm me if you want more info, but it is quite a drive outside of AZ.

[ExcruciationX]

lol yeah go back to mexico and eat a burrito j/k. im just saying that i believe in aliens because they work down the road from my house. just stating that this poll was poorly worded... extra-terrestrials not aliens man. theres a difference...
I thought Christians were supposed to be nice to everybody? :p

Oh, maybe they don't support God's word. :p

Sorry, I just like being a jackass sometimes.

[joshisposer]

http://science.qj.net/Paranormal-beliefs-can-lead-to-memory-problems/pg/49/aid/88897
For all of us that believe, we have a higher chance of short term memory loss. I knew i sort of did, but this proves it. I do believe in reincarnation, i'm not all like i was a rat or something, i just think when i die, i become someone/thing else. I do tend to repeat myself.
I repeat questions a lot to my bro, who gets annoyed at that, and this finally helps me out a little. I don't get myself caught up in believing something like it says though...

[SnesR0X]

well to be honest I only know 1 mexican, a friend of mine named Alex. It's sorta funny, because he's a Jewish Mexican, sometimes we call him that, and he just has his pride boom. But, no, we generally don't see a ton of mexicans in British Columbia, so I guess that's why we don't make fun of them

[sourced]

im positive aliens exist. it could just be that they are like.. 10000000000 lightyears away, as far as we know, we still dont know how big the universe is. i think that the possibility of us seeing aliens in the flesh are quite slim, although, i am convinved that somewhere out there, they exist.

[White_Hawk_UK]

Proof of Christianity? A cult that collated generations of fables and beliefs from a multitude of cultures, hi-jacked various pagan festivals (Christmas, Easter, etc), and then violently and mercilessly oppressed all other belief systems and non-conforming cultures within its field of influence. Yeah, sure, there's more proof of Christianity than there will ever be of God.

Something that amuses me no end is the idea that someone (especially an adult) who believes an omnipotent deity created the universe in seven days, and that Satan planted dinosaur bones to confuse us (or that God did it for some sick joke or test of faith) can so easily dismiss even the undeniable possibility of life beyond our solar system.

It's a bit like saying "there's no tooth fairy... Santa says so".

Really, I'd laugh more if it wasn't so chronically sad.

[shadowprophet]

The fact of the matter is, That unintelligence rears its ugly head every day.
The irony of that is. it usually shows itself in the form of someone else trying to belittle others to make there selves feel superior. This in itself is a cry for attention, showing a contempt and loathing for a belief that they do not share. so, much like a child in full tantrum mode "they lash out". showing their childish intellect in all its glory.

It's a sad state of affairs to be sure. However, Im not content allowing someone to slander someone's entire way of life, and yet there only punishment be that "their stupidity shows"
No. intolerance like that calls for something more severe.
There is a difference between sharing ones opinion, And sinking ones self down to the level of a pissed off three year old that didn't get in his full nap time..
If you don't believe in christianity, that's all fine and good. But when someone insults a members intelligence based solely on their spiritual beliefs. Thats not.

The only thing worth intolerance is intolerance itself.

[White_Hawk_UK]

Who insulted your beliefs? I certainly didn't.

If a statement of fact (albeit, with a bit of a tone) is insulting to you, then perhaps you have not the conviction of your beliefs.

I suggest you read-up a bit on the real history of Christianity and the bloody rampage that gave it its roots. If you like, I can provide you with some interesting insights into a religion I probably know more about than you do - and I by no means wish to come across as some sort of irreverent smart-a**e, but I read these things called 'books'. They're a bit like your bible - many are a number of otherwise loosely-connected stories collated under a single title. Many are factual representations. Many others still, are just exercises in fiction.

I have read the bible. I think the butler did it.

Basically, all I did was agree that there is, indeed, irrefutable "proof of Christianity" while stating my reasons. I regret if that causes you offence, but you should understand that my views and beliefs are no less valid than yours, and I will not apologise for them.

If your belief system dictates that my views and beliefs should be opressed, then I would have to question the message of 'tolerance' that has become a very, very recent edict of Christianity.

Here's a question for you: if I don't defend my belief system with violence, righteous outrage, or the taking of life (mine or others), does that mean that my beliefs are due less protection than yours? Should I have less right to feel insulted simply because I don't scream "heretic"!?

If this is the sort of community where the nature of my posts to this thread lead to a ban, then I think it safe to say I'm better off out of it.

That being said, I respect people regardless of their beliefs, but I was making a point. I get the impression that you missed it. That's not unexpected. :P ;) *cheeky, charming, disarming grin* <---sometimes, this grin thing works, you know...

[shadowprophet]

You have no idea who your talking too. with all modesty I can say I most likely know more about biblical history then anyone else whom has ever graced these forums.

history, Is based on factual evidence, If you had read absolutely any world history dated to the time.
You would know that christians had no choice but to fight.

We where labeled heretics and marked for death. We lived in caves and feared for our family's and our lives.

Any man. Christian or no. will defend his family to the point of death or killing others that would threaten the life of our family's. Its not only biblical. Its every mans Duty to defend his family " with his life if necessary"

People see televangelists on tv preaching their soft spoken turn the other cheek theories and get the impression that christians are these weak little wash away hippies with the integrity of a mon chi chi.

Well, before you enlighten us on all the blood we Christians spilled. Why don't you go back and read up on why we did that?

in those times. We where sought out and killed on sight. We where marked as heretics that shunned the laws of Judaism, We where ruthlessly sought out and killed, Our wives and daughters raped before our very eyes.

People think that because christians tend to be forgiving and peaceful. that we will sit back and pray while the enemy comes in and rapes kills our family's.

Before you Quote history. YOu need the full story. Every war that has ever been has sported two sides. instead of reading one side of a story, Why don't you hit up a library sometime.

* this isnt about anger and im not going to bann you. However If you would choose the way you got your opinions about christianity across a little more, I dunno, Less offencively. That would be great in the future.

[ICE]

Proof of Christianity? A cult that collated generations of fables and beliefs from a multitude of cultures, hi-jacked various pagan festivals (Christmas, Easter, etc), and then violently and mercilessly oppressed all other belief systems and non-conforming cultures within its field of influence. Yeah, sure, there's more proof of Christianity than there will ever be of God.

Something that amuses me no end is the idea that someone (especially an adult) who believes an omnipotent deity created the universe in seven days, and that Satan planted dinosaur bones to confuse us (or that God did it for some sick joke or test of faith) can so easily dismiss even the undeniable possibility of life beyond our solar system.

It's a bit like saying "there's no tooth fairy... Santa says so".

Really, I'd laugh more if it wasn't so chronically sad.

you dont have a clue what your talking about. not one part of that is correct at all. christianity hi-jacked other cults and pagan festivals? not even close. i believe you are thinking of catholicism buddy. also they accepted all these holidays and practices that i dont follow.

who told you that god made the earth in seven days? http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=57237 just go there first post will explain it.

also satan planted dinosaur bone? wow thats a no comment.

[SnesR0X]

how do christians explain that there's donisaur bones though?

[ICE]

there were dinosaurs then they died.

EDIT: read the first post-- http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=57237

[shadowprophet]

The fact of the matter about dinosaur bones, is that people think we christians believe "Time began" when the events in "Genesis" took place. however it's widely accepted and known that in Greek and Hebrew. The language the bible was written in. " Genesis" means " Made New"
The earth had been Created "" and destroyed" Before the events in Genesis even took place.

" and the "earth" was void and without form"

Why was it called " The Earth" And yet It was Void and without form.

People Have no concept "That God Is a creator" Its his First title. And As such Like any creator.
"or even an artiest" They will scrap a project if it doesn't turn out like they had wanted.
The bible speaks of one such destruction of the earth " with the story of noah.
However reading in the old testament. One can learn many things.
The flood wasn't the first time the Earth was destroyed. It's even widely theorized that in fact the earth had been created and destroyed many times before The events in genesis took place.

How could something be "Void-Empty" and without form, Unless it was destroyed?
If it was in the process of being created for the very first time. The Words Void and without form would not apply.
Think about it.

[SnesR0X]

well theICE_MAN, that goes against most of the christian communitey but whatever

[ICE]

ive often wondered about that particular phrasing. it makes some sense. i think i'll look into that one.

i find it funny that a lot people think christian means "simple minded person who disregards science" lol. of course no one here says that.

EDIT: my post on the other thread goes against most christians? most christians arent christians. i am no respecter of man and i dont care if people disagree with the truth. genesis's use of the word day was simply a marker for separating unprescribed amounts of time. with that fact you can line up creationism and the "science" of how things came about quite well.

[White_Hawk_UK]

First-off, I would like to admit to a little inaccuracy - not all Christians are devout creationists hell-bent on denying dinosaurs ever existed. Don't consider it a retraction - my brush is no wider than that of someone claiming that considering the possibility of extra-terrestrial life is akin to believing in ghosts.

"You would know that christians had no choice but to fight." - that explains the crusades perfectly, along with the desecration of Egypt and the undeniable benevolence of Constantine, countless burnings at the stake... look, I really don't feel like writing a novel here. Thanks for clearing that one up, though.

"...because christians tend to be forgiving and peaceful..." - I have never suffered from such a delusion.

As for theICE MAN, I don't think any amount of research will debunk my assertion that Christianity hi-jacked older festivals. Rather than argue this, perhaps there is a greater revelation that might interest you: the Romans didn't stand crosses up on their ends - crucifixions were made with a cross like an "X", and the crucified were normally hung upside down. The symbol that Christians use nowadays was actually far older - it was a symbol used to ward-off bad spirits. Get this; it was used by Pagans long before Christ was hung upside down on his "X". The age-old, upright symbol was easy to adopt, as it meant that those who were converted could hold onto something familiar.

"i believe you are thinking of catholicism buddy" - seeing as all this occurred before Henry VIII splintered Christianity from the Catholic Church, then yes, you'd be right there. Thanks for agreeing with me. ;)

Beyond that, theICE MAN, I have little interest in arguing with those who will hear no argument. I really have expressed about as much as I ever wanted to on this subject.
__________

To clarify: a poster pointed out that to believe in aliens was stupid, and that there was more proof of Christianity. I found the wording amusing, and decided to agree that there was indeed, plenty of evidence of "Christianity".

I also thought it amusing that ET theorists might be declared stupid by one with equally questionable beliefs.

In essence, tolerance is a two-way street, and to bandy words while showing a closed mind to any possibilities but the ones they were indoctrinated with - to show not one spark of critical thought - is a demonstration of the very ignorance that makes freedom of belief impossible in the first place.
__________

Shadow - your point is taken, and I have admitted to using a "tone" in my post. Of course, I find great amusement in all this, but I sometimes forget how easily a fanatic can be offended by a reasonable argument. I shall measure my tone in future. ;)

[ICE]

First-off, I would like to admit to a little inaccuracy - not all Christians are devout creationists hell-bent on denying dinosaurs ever existed. Don't consider it a retraction - my brush is no wider than that of someone claiming that considering the possibility of extra-terrestrial life is akin to believing in ghosts.

"You would know that christians had no choice but to fight." - that explains the crusades perfectly, along with the desecration of Egypt and the undeniable benevolence of Constantine, countless burnings at the stake... look, I really don't feel like writing a novel here. Thanks for clearing that one up, though.

"...because christians tend to be forgiving and peaceful..." - I have never suffered from such a delusion.

As for theICE MAN, I don't think any amount of research will debunk my assertion that Christianity hi-jacked older festivals. Rather than argue this, perhaps there is a greater revelation that might interest you: the Romans didn't stand crosses up on their ends - crucifixions were made with a cross like an "X", and the crucified were normally hung upside down. The symbol that Christians use nowadays was actually far older - it was a symbol used to ward-off bad spirits. Get this; it was used by Pagans long before Christ was hung upside down on his "X". The age-old, upright symbol was easy to adopt, as it meant that those who were converted could hold onto something familiar.

"i believe you are thinking of catholicism buddy" - seeing as all this occurred before Henry VIII splintered Christianity from the Catholic Church, then yes, you'd be right there. Thanks for agreeing with me. ;)

Beyond that, theICE MAN, I have little interest in arguing with those who will hear no argument. I really have expressed about as much as I ever wanted to on this subject.
__________

To clarify: a poster pointed out that to believe in aliens was stupid, and that there was more proof of Christianity. I found the wording amusing, and decided to agree that there was indeed, plenty of evidence of "Christianity".

I also thought it amusing that ET theorists might be declared stupid by one with equally questionable beliefs.

In essence, tolerance is a two-way street, and to bandy words while showing a closed mind to any possibilities but the ones they were indoctrinated with - to show not one spark of critical thought - is a demonstration of the very ignorance that makes freedom of belief impossible in the first place.
__________

Shadow - your point is taken, and I have admitted to using a "tone" in my post. Of course, I find great amusement in all this, but I sometimes forget how easily a fanatic can be offended by a reasonable argument. I shall measure my tone in future. ;)

you still have no clue dude. catholicism is NOT christian. dont try and tell me that we both started from the same group because we didnt. catholicism branched off from the Babylonian church not judainic messaism(mispelled lol)

and how do you figure that im close minded? i just offered a doctrine combining science and religion and yet im closed minded?

sure catholicism and christianity are often called the same by people who dont know their beliefs but if you take the time, oh say 5 minutes, you'l see they're COMPLETELY different.

and whats your point about the cross? that we draw the wrong shape in our portraits? fyi we arent even supposed to make images of jesus in the first place.

all of your claims are against catholics so take it up with them and leave the christians be.

[Shadowblind]

You believe I exist, don't you?

So you believe in aliens.

[White_Hawk_UK]

*gasp* *choke* ...sorry, theICE MAN, you'll have to stop there - I might die laughing! If such a distinction exists, then Christianity is what... a couple of hundred years old? I suppose, as the Bible was written more than two centuries after Christ died, that sort of time-scale is of little relevance...
__________

I am of the opinion, getting back to the ET argument, that if intelligent extra-terrestrial life does exist, and if they have developed to the point of inter-stellar (nay, inter-galactic) traversal, then there is little question that once they encountered Earth, they would most likely never return!

I mean, when you're in a bad neighbourhood, do you think to yourself, "nice place, I might come back here and molest a few cattle"?

No, we're the no-go zone of the universal community - the object of curtain-twitches and doorstep whispering in the next solar system. We are the "trailer-trash" of the universe, and all that we've got coming is an eviction and demolition order.

Who hasn't read HHGTTG here? If you have to ask what that means, just say "me". ;)

[ExcruciationX]

If you may have noticed, I'm staying out of this one.

[ICE]

*gasp* *choke* ...sorry, theICE MAN, you'll have to stop there - I might die laughing! If such a distinction exists, then Christianity is what... a couple of hundred years old? I suppose, as the Bible was written more than two centuries after Christ died, that sort of time-scale is of little relevance...



your ignorant. your saying that if christianity is differnt from catholicism then its only a couple hundred years old? juddianic messiasm(mispelled) was the first form of christianity and it began only months after jesus died.

the bible was written two centuries after christ? now your just making stuff up.. the old testament was written BEFORE christ and the new testament was right after. all the gospels were written about 70 years at the most after his death. we know this because none of them mention the destruction of the temple which occurred in 70 ad.

if you have any FACTS you wanna throw at me go ahead.

[White_Hawk_UK]

What that has to do with extra-terrestrials, I don't know... *giggle*

EDIT: OH! Hang on! Yes, of course! God is not technically "of this Earth", so therefore, he's an extra-terrestrial!! I get your point. Well said! ;)

[ExcruciationX]

the bible was written two centuries after christ? now your just making stuff up.. the old testament was written BEFORE christ and the new testament was right after. all the gospels were written about 70 years at the most after his death. we know this because none of them mention the destruction of the temple which occurred in 70 ad.

I didn't know that one. ;)

[ICE]

you attacked christianity with false claims and i defended it. if you stop attacking i'll stop defending.

EX- sorry for hi-jacking your thread but im not going to let people bash my beliefs based on what they think i believe or on they're stereotypical perception of christianity based on what they saw on tv.

[ExcruciationX]

EX- sorry for hi-jacking your thread but im not going to let people bash my beliefs based on what they think i believe or on they're stereotypical perception of christianity based on what they saw on tv.
Hey, it's alright. Doesn't bother me. :)

I hate people that stereotype other people. I know most Christians aren't like that.

But, we alien believers are stereotyped too. They make us look like we're insane people. That must be our government doing that.

[White_Hawk_UK]

I want you to imagine someone standing in front of you. He has tears in his eyes, but he's grinning broadly, so it's pretty obvious he's been laughing his nuts off. :rofl:

Now, he extends an arm, slaps you on the shoulder and says in a hammed-up, sorta' campy, jovial way:

"No, silly - you started it!" :p

Now he looks as if he's waiting for the next serve. You probably want to hit him (being the good Christian and all), but there's a peculiar twinkle in his eye; and that grin... that damned grin... what is it with that grin..? :D

[ExcruciationX]

I want you to imagine someone standing in front of you. He has tears in his eyes, but he's grinning broadly, so it's pretty obvious he's been laughing his nuts off. :rofl:

Now, he extends an arm, slaps you on the shoulder and says in a hammed-up, sorta' campy, jovial way:

"No, silly - you started it!" :p

Now he looks as if he's waiting for the next serve. You probably want to hit him (being the good Christian and all), but there's a peculiar twinkle in his eye; and that grin... that damned grin... what is it with that grin..? :D
It's called religious zeal, and it's something you have.

What is with people, trying to disprove the other? In the end, you people will still believe in the same thing so what's the use?

[ICE]

Hey, it's alright. Doesn't bother me. :)

I hate people that stereotype other people. I know most Christians aren't like that.

But, we alien believers are stereotyped too. They make us look like we're insane people. That must be our government doing that.

ok cool. as you all may know i am passionate in my beliefs but that by no means makes me dogmatic or a bigot. a close-minded person would not have questioned the creation story in genesis like i have or studied every other "mainstream" religion i could before settling on christianity.

as for extra terrestrials im not sure if there are or not. of course we've all seen the videos of UFO's but whose to say that they arent experimental aircraft? my immediate feeling on the topic is that its prolly not intelligent E.T.'s visiting us for the last 50 years or more but never contacting us. i mean why repeatedly visit us but never go past flying over head?

i know people say they've been abducted and all but the concept of a small human-like creature that evolved to that shape billions of light-years aways is a concept that well lets face it. the odds arent in its favor. if there are E.T.'s they wouldnt look anything like us unless you subscribe to the theory that they came here and planted us here and we descend from them.


"No, silly - you started it!" really now? you posted this on page 6 post 52--


Proof of Christianity? A cult that collated generations of fables and beliefs from a multitude of cultures, hi-jacked various pagan festivals (Christmas, Easter, etc), and then violently and mercilessly oppressed all other belief systems and non-conforming cultures within its field of influence. Yeah, sure, there's more proof of Christianity than there will ever be of God.

Something that amuses me no end is the idea that someone (especially an adult) who believes an omnipotent deity created the universe in seven days, and that Satan planted dinosaur bones to confuse us (or that God did it for some sick joke or test of faith) can so easily dismiss even the undeniable possibility of life beyond our solar system.

It's a bit like saying "there's no tooth fairy... Santa says so".

Really, I'd laugh more if it wasn't so chronically sad.

my first post on the topic was on page 6 post 55 which i believe was AFTER YOURS. how could i have started it if YOU POSTED FIRST?

[White_Hawk_UK]

Nice one.

You have a point there - the idea of life elsewhere looking an awful lot like life here sounds incredible.

The thing is that physics is pretty much a universal thing, and the very same rules of mathematical physics and chemistry that lead to such alarming occurrences of symmetry on Earth (in crystals and biology, for instance) are probably pretty-much Universal.

This is in no way a well-informed opinion, but a moment's thought: if life does exist elsewhere, and, just supposing, the building blocks of these ET organisms relies on similar chemistry (I mean, just imagine, another watery, nitrous planet in orbit around a yellow dwarf), and the terrain is a solid, irregular mess that makes the evolution of wheels improbable (limbs, after all, are bio-mechanically easier to achieve) - then why shouldn't life develop elsewhere with a body+limbs configuration?

Essentially, most complex life here is a basic worm (ie- a tube along which food passes) with variously sophisticated extra junk plugged-in at regular anchor points. This equipment, if one subscribes to the theory of evolution, develops as a natural solution to a need; to sense food, to move towards food, to make food more compliant to consumption, perhaps.

Why shouldn't there be, among all the floating brain-gas-pods, and the sentient blobbelly-mushrooms, at least one creature that evolved to look just like Snoopy?!

Seriously though, I should think that ET, if it's out there, probably has as many different forms as there are grains of sand on a beach - but the probability is that at least some of it could end-up looking vaguely hominid, even if the rest is just mobile goo.

Just a thought.

[ExcruciationX]

as for extra terrestrials im not sure if there are or not. of course we've all seen the videos of UFO's but whose to say that they arent experimental aircraft? my immediate feeling on the topic is that its prolly not intelligent E.T.'s visiting us for the last 50 years or more but never contacting us. i mean why repeatedly visit us but never go past flying over head?

They wouldn't still be experimental after 50 years. Becides, people have been seeing them for 1000s of years.

And if they were made by us, why aren't they mainstream yet?


i know people say they've been abducted and all but the concept of a small human-like creature that evolved to that shape billions of light-years aways is a concept that well lets face it. the odds arent in its favor.
Hell they aren't.


if there are E.T.'s they wouldnt look anything like us unless you subscribe to the theory that they came here and planted us here and we descend from them.

How do you know that? Have you met one?

[ICE]

look im just saying that just because you see something in the sky doesnt mean its an alien. its called a UFO for a reason ya know?

if you believe we evolved independently into this form and that another species on a different planet did the same and we both turned out to have 2 eyes, a nose, a mouth, 2 legs, 2 arms etc. then you may need to look at the odds involved there.

and no ive never met an ET but im willing to bet that they wouldnt look like us. unless of course you think they they planted us here and in that case they would.

[gdf]

just because there's an old book written about something doesn't mean it's true. also i agree they wouldn't look like us. the most likely aliens nearby are microorganisms possibly on one of the moons of saturn. (the ice one).

and dude fix your sig! ouch.

[ICE]

why must you constantly attack me? i left you alone now please do the same to me. ive already explained that the bible is 98% the same as the scroll's they were based on so please if you feel the need to attack me come up with something new.

also no, they wouldnt look like us most likely.

and no i like my sig the way it is.

[gdf]

lol i wasn't attacking you, you brought up religion and made a comment that i thought i could turn around to wind you up which is clearly very easy. sorry i'll stop doing that now :p!

your sig is like...demented man! I think it's my fault, put back your nice icy pic.

[ICE]

lol i like this one. fyi i wasnt angry. i thought i put everything very tactfully and was quite calm.

[gdf]

yes well done.

back on topic.
aliens.
aliens killed god.
lol.

[White_Hawk_UK]

Nice show of character, tIM.

Regardless of my overwhelming urge to keep digging, I would now be showing a complete lack of character to do so, as I think anyone else would be. Let our example of being an arse serve as a lesson in how not to conduct a debate.

Moving on (as we should)...

"They wouldn't still be experimental after 50 years. Becides, people have been seeing them for 1000s of years." - this is undeniable. If millitary technology was advanced enough for high-G, high-velocity aircraft tests in a time long before spitfires, I really don't see why aircraft like the Eurofighter would be the most advanced modern example of high-G maneuverability nowadays.

There are many historical accounts of UFOs, particularly before human flight was conceived of. A quick Google yields some interesting results (for instance- UFOIndia.org (http://www.ufoindia.org/article_ps_ancientufos.htm)), but your local library would likely yield more fruitful results, if you're lucky enough to have one.

Throughout the ages, in cultures across the globe, there have been accounts of strange lights in the sky. In particular, almost every major conflict in history is surrounded by sightings - even over Roman battlefields!

As recently as WWI and WWII, pilots of every nationality reported inexplicable sightings, and men in the field of battle described low-flying, high-velocity, unidentified flying objects.

Much can be passed-off as a product of the human psyche - the need to believe in something as a consequence of the fear of death (or some-such article of psychology) in times of stress or mortal danger - but the sheer proliferation of stories and accounts back through countless ages, to a time when crude cave-paintings were rendered as lasting testimony... it beggars belief that it could all be imagination, or human experimentation, or stress-induced hallucination.

Of course, this in-and-of itself does not necessarily suggest the activity of sentient extra-terrestrial beings in high-technology flying machines, visiting Earth for the sake of overseeing the latest human act of mass carnage, but it certainly stretches rational explanation to extraordinary lengths.

No. While experimental aircraft could be to blame for a lot of very recent sightings, there are simply too many historical accounts to be ignored or dismissed so easily.

Just my 2p.

[ICE]

our understanding of our surroundings is far more basic than we admit. im just saying dont be so quick to assume that something you cant explain is an alien. it could very well be some undiscovered event that has nothing to do with anything intelligent.

while im not saying aliens arent real and just ignore it im also not saying that they are. we need to find a scientific middle-ground on the topic and look at this subjectively. the question isnt is there life out there. the question is is it intelligent. the fact that bacteria exists on some planet seems a bit irrelevant.

[White_Hawk_UK]

Beside the fact that bacteria on another planet would classify as EXTREMELY SIGNIFICANT, this topic begs discussion of the possibility, not the belief.

When it comes down to it, the only logical debate any of us could have on this subject is that of probability. As anything beyond evidence is conjecture, nothing can be gained of declaring one's belief in UFOs - the pole, while poorly posed and insultingly worded, deals with whether or not any one of us believes in "aliens", the thread is a more appropriate place to pose theories and debate evidence. It certainly isn't a place to discuss the semantics of belief... is it?

[ExcruciationX]

I'm not "digging further" either.

BTW, how old are you, White Hawk?

[VampDude]

Aliens exist, but I highly doubt that they are called "Aliens" by their own

[shadowprophet]

white hawk. I have to say, your skills of debate are top knotch.
In my earlier days here I would have reveled in this. Still, for what skill you possess you hide lack of knowledge and facts behind it. Just spouting off random events roughly dated to the era the topic pertains too, while throwing in a little tone and a pinch of attitude doesn't cut it my friend.

If you want to prove something, give us something real to work with. So far you have been working with well known topics and key phrases any number of "christian chat room athiests" have been spouting off for years "in any given christian chat room on all the web"
Prove to us your not just a forum troll hawk, bring me something real, bring me dates, times,events. In essence, bring proof of your claims. proove to us all that without a doubt, God isn't real, proove to us beyond doubt that aliens aren't real.
The way I see it, unless you can do these things, your opinion means about as much as any other "standard forum troll.

[The King]

wow told u of there

[sourced]

white hawk. I have to say, your skills of debate are top knotch.
In my earlier days here I would have reveled in this. Still, for what skill you possess you hide lack of knowledge and facts behind it. Just spouting off random events roughly dated to the era the topic pertains too, while throwing in a little tone and a pinch of attitude doesn't cut it my friend.

If you want to prove something, give us something real to work with. So far you have been working with well known topics and key phrases any number of "christian chat room athiests" have been spouting off for years "in any given christian chat room on all the web"
Prove to us your not just a forum troll hawk, bring me something real, bring me dates, times,events. In essence, bring proof of your claims. proove to us all that without a doubt, God isn't real, proove to us beyond doubt that aliens aren't real.
The way I see it, unless you can do these things, your opinion means about as much as any other "standard forum troll.


its because the the christian religion is not even meant to be taken literally. this "God" that is mentioned in the bible is not a real being, he is merely a symbolism of the fact that people who believe in the christian faith should have fear of what they are doing(e.g fear of doing wrong thigs or sins) none of these evens are real, they are merely symbolisms and guides on how to act and live as a christian.


back to topic:

aliens are green.

[Cap'n 1time]

aliens are green.

PROOF?!

[kcajblue]

hes wrong. aliens have many colors. here is one.
http://www.overspun.com/images/Coulter.Alien.jpg

[sourced]

lol. it was a joke. aliens can be red too. kidding.

[White_Hawk_UK]

I've had enough, Shadow. Seek help. Let it go now. Chill. Put the stick down. Take a deep breath and count to ten. Not everybody is as fanatical about certain things as you are, and most don't give a flying-blue-monkey at all!

I don't know why you crave my attention so much, and while I appreciate your compliment, I neither need nor desire your approval or praise. In fact, your momentary simpering appears to be no more than a fake smile while you attempt to deliver yet more inept personal insults - something you seem to have a bad habit of. It is unbecoming, and lowers my opinion of you further. I have no interest in what your opinion is of me, nor whether you think my opinion valid - in fact, I fully expect you are incapable of accepting that any has a view but your own, as this is generally what I have come to experience from fanatics.

Furthermore; I am not "your friend", so don't patronise me. Despite my good humour, I have little tolerance for insincerity and pathetic attempts at intimidation. I don't know you, and you certainly shouldn't presume to know me.

Have you ever thought that the reason these are well-known topics of discussion, is because they are pertinent? The reason that people still protest about the occupation of Iraq, for instance, is because it's still f***ing occupied!

If you're still on the religious issue, do your own investigation - the topic is not worth further discussion to me - but, if you've finally moved-on back to the topic at hand, then I can provide some interesting links to sites that are certainly informative. By no-means do I assert that this material is definitive or comprehensive, but at worst, it's an intriguing diversion.

As I'm neither a UFO specialist, nor a researcher on your payroll, read what you want and make up your own mind. I haven't stated anything that hasn't been written about a thousand times, and I'm sure that you know how to use your local library. I am not the enthusiast now that I was when I was a child of theICE MAN's age, and I can't be bothered doing your walking for you.

I prefer to remain open-minded, myself; agnostic re: religion, AND UFOs. My great regret, from time to time, is that freedom of religion does not guarantee freedom from religion. That is not intended as a slur, but one does tire of the subject, especially when facing outraged idignation and a tirade of abuse and spittle in the process of discussion.

Without further ado, a few links for your perusal:

UFO Evidence (http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1742.htm) - quotes and whatnot
The Bible UFO Connection (http://www.bibleufo.com/) - a popular subject. Some interesting dates (http://www.bibleufo.com/ufos.htm), too
UFO India (http://www.ufoindia.org/article_ps_ancientufos.htm) - this one, again
Historic UFOs (http://www.rense.com/historic/hist.htm) - more, etc
UFO Area (http://www.ufoarea.com/lloyd_tuatha.html) - druidic connections?
Project1947 (http://www.project1947.com/bcausenc.htm) - a popular year, that...
UFOs in Earth's History (http://www.crystalinks.com/ufohistory.html) - petroglyphs and cave paintings
Alienation Sam (http://www.alienationsam.com/historic_ufo/index.html) - etc...
ECETI (http://www.eceti.org/ufohistory.htm) - don't be fooled by the skull (explicable, and human, obviously)
UFOpsi (http://www.ufopsi.com/) - and so on...
UfOpsi again (http://www.ufopsi.com/articles/hynekclassification.html) - explaining the Hynek Classification, and states "90% of UFO sightings find natural, astronomical or technological explanations the witness could not identify.". A fair assumption, I'd say.

If you really can't sleep, and you need some more reading material, Google it for yourself. I grow weary of you - and I mean that sincerely. Whether or not I'm a troll, you are starting to be a bit of a pitbull.

Put the teeth away and step slowly away from the leg. Good boy.

The King: Get a life, kid.

Ex: The information you seek, is available on my profile.
__________

That being said, I have more important things to do now, and persistent irritation has made this thread far less interesting to me. I can't be bothered any more. See you around the forums, people. The best of luck to you and yours - good health, good fortune, and good bye.

[shadowprophet]

I never got offensive toward you, Yet, you return with no ammunition for a debate that you started, With common petty flames and insults. Based on the prior offences alone you would be banned.

Make no mistake in crossing commonly used phrases for intimidation. " I am not a friend to you"
I am as I always was, "A Mod allowing a " standard troller" Enough rope to hang himself with.

And sure Enough. You hung yourself well. Congratulations.

Pathetic attempts at intimidation. I let you slide on so many offences. You think I was being nice to you? that perhaps your the shit or something? That I don't deal with people like you every day?
Sounds like you need a week to chill.

Never, proceed to tell a mod at Dcemu how to do his job. I found your debates entertaining.
however you candor was less then thrilling. , " I will do my job. You will stop trolling" You will understand this!

Yet again. People mistake my soft nature and good will to hear another side of a story for weakness.,

This one will learn his lesson.

[joshisposer]

Aliens exist, but I highly doubt that they are called "Aliens" by their own
That's cause alien is a word *we* would describe them. It's pretty much a word describing them, we would call ourselves aliens either but they might, but they probably would use their own words though.

[ICE]

its because the the christian religion is not even meant to be taken literally. this "God" that is mentioned in the bible is not a real being, he is merely a symbolism of the fact that people who believe in the christian faith should have fear of what they are doing(e.g fear of doing wrong thigs or sins) none of these evens are real, they are merely symbolisms and guides on how to act and live as a christian.


back to topic:

aliens are green.

second time ive heard this in the last 2 days lol. let me quote myself--


i disagree. if you read the bible and take none of it literally then you still wont be a christian and you will gain nothing. "do not murder" well they didnt mean that right?

these books are meant to be taken literally IN CONTEXT. use your head and figure out whats meant to be taken literally and whats an analogy. its not hard.

now back to topic. i still dont think that space bacteria would get me too hyped up so for me the question isnt about that, its about is there intelligent ET's out there.

[gdf]

i think that finding any sort of life in space in my lifetime would be quite exciting as it is still very unlikely that there are intelligent aliens anywhere near us. they are definitely out there somewhere. it's pretty much impossible they aren't.

[KU_kwaH_etihW]

SP: Suit yourself. I stand by what I've said. A zealot will have his way, and such abuse of power is typical of your type. I accept that my previous post was provocative, but I make no excuses.

You must be an incredible touch-typist, with your head that far up your arse. I admire that.

Enjoy your autocracy.

[Sonicboy 101]

BAN EVASION!
ps: your name is spelt backwards. :D

[gdf]

that's the point.
also i don't think he insulted you that badly shadow...
meh, it's not my argument.

[joshisposer]

Are you allowed to have two accounts?
IP check or just look at the name like sonic said, lolz backwards!

[shadowprophet]

The problem isn't me or my opinions on this guy.. Since he's been here he's done nothing but troll,
He's had mixed words with several members and every post he makes is insulting to someone.
The point being. This guy is jut a troll. And since he doesn't know when to keep his damned mouth shut and cant respect authority or the rules here, He's just problem.

I have to deal with his type every day, an insult here a flame there. finely when something has to be done about actions like that, they have the gall to say hey, What did I do wrong.
The problem is point blank respect. IF a member can't come into a set of forums and show a little damned respect to other members, especially a mod. Then that chump needs the fastest ticket out of here.

I have a job to do, and that's to make sure people like this guy aren't causing trouble, I'll do my job,
Every time.


It's my Job.

[Kaiser]

you still have no clue dude. catholicism is NOT christian. dont try and tell me that we both started from the same group because we didnt. catholicism branched off from the Babylonian church not judainic messaism(mispelled lol)

and how do you figure that im close minded? i just offered a doctrine combining science and religion and yet im closed minded?

sure catholicism and christianity are often called the same by people who dont know their beliefs but if you take the time, oh say 5 minutes, you'l see they're COMPLETELY different.

and whats your point about the cross? that we draw the wrong shape in our portraits? fyi we arent even supposed to make images of jesus in the first place.

all of your claims are against catholics so take it up with them and leave the christians be.

I know I'm late in this topic but this caught my eye while browsing through the pages. Don't ever and I mean EVER say that Catholics are not Christian. I find that extremely insulting. The Catholic church is far from perfect (like any church) but it is still Christian. I mean the establishment of the Bishop of Rome dates to the infancy of Christianity.

As for the rest of this argument, I'm going to say that I agree with White Hawk UK here for the most part.

For the record, what church do you belong to Iceman? I didn't know there were many iconoclasts left.

[ICE]

I know I'm late in this topic but this caught my eye while browsing through the pages.

Don't ever and I mean EVER say that Catholics are not Christian.

I find that extremely insulting.

i know your a mod and all and if i offended you im sorry but lets face it. juddianic messiasm(christianity in its first form) and catholicism are very different. if you want me to explain i will but you clearly find this to be a touchy topic so i wont unless you gimme the green light.

[The King]

wtf is it with u and all this religion talk
nearly every were i see u write u always end up talking about religion

[ExcruciationX]

i know your a mod and all and if i offended you im sorry but lets face it. juddianic messiasm(christianity in its first form) and catholicism are very different. if you want me to explain i will but you clearly find this to be a touchy topic so i wont unless you gimme the green light.
I call B.S on that one.

They are the same thing. The only reason they are classed as different things, is because of one little different belief that th other one doesn't believe in. So they start they're own.

[ICE]

i started 2 threads on religion. all the other times i talked about it someone else brought it up. dont blame me if dont wanna hear it. blame them.


I call B.S on that one.

They are the same thing. The only reason they are classed as different things, is because of one little different belief that th other one doesn't believe in. So they start they're own. i'll explain it if kaiser doesnt ban me. actually it'd be cool if someone would explain how they're the same and i'll give counter points lol.

[ExcruciationX]

But, you still believe in the same God, you obey him, you get to Heaven. You still follow the Ten Commandments, you still prey. Becides minor differences, how are they different?

[ICE]

But, you still believe in the same God, you obey him, you get to Heaven. You still follow the Ten Commandments, you still prey. Becides minor differences, how are they different?

wow um first off obeying god and following the ten commandments to get to heaven is islamic doctrine not christian. we are saved by grave through faith. believe in christ(faith) and your in(grace). now i know salvation without works is dead but what that means is if you truly believe your gonna do whatever jesus asked. you owe him lol. basically if you say that your saved but you dont act like it... your most likely not saved.

Ex check you inbox.

[Kaiser]

i know your a mod and all and if i offended you im sorry but lets face it. juddianic messiasm(christianity in its first form) and catholicism are very different. if you want me to explain i will but you clearly find this to be a touchy topic so i wont unless you gimme the green light.

Go for it. I'm not going to ban you for arguing against me. That would be an abuse of my power.

Are you claiming that your a part of the original Judeo-Christian belief system?

All Catholics are Christians but not all Christians are Catholics. Thats a simple way to compare each.

edit: BTW I have overturned all bans on White Hawk. SP jumped the gun in this case.

[SnesR0X]

I almost want there to be no talking about this stuff anymore, too many people are getting pissed off at each other

[Kaiser]

We shall continue that discussion here.
http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/sho...708#post405708

Back to discussion of Aliens and such in this thread. :)

[SnesR0X]

I want to meet an alien, and scare the crap out of it :)

[White_Hawk_UK]

That's an amusing thought - that aliens might arrive, take one look at us, and run for their lives! We've all had Star Trek for years, so we're probably partially prepared for something fugly to come in peace - so unless ET has similarly prepared, these little pink bags of flesh we call bodies, may well be horrid looking to a handsome green blob...

If I met an alien, I'd ask for a tissue (or fluid) sample. Photos can be passed-off as fake, but try proving that ET's saliva belongs to something earthly!

[ExcruciationX]

Of course, your government would cover it up...

[White_Hawk_UK]

There's no end to such conspiracy theories... I just can't help but wonder sometimes if beneath all the ranting of madmen, writers and investigators, buried in the great pile of misinformation surrounding so many historical incidents, there isn't a small grain of truth to be found. There are just too many shifty goings-on from the side that supposedly has nothing to hide... O.o

On a side note, I also wonder if 2001: A Space Odyssey promoted stories like these (http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicphotos.html).

That film was made in 1968, and actually inspired by Arthur C Clark's earlier short story The Sentinel, written in 1948 for a BBC writing competition, so it's plausible at least. ;)

I always loved both the original story and the movie, and so that link above rather appeals to me.

[ExcruciationX]

Think about it.

Proof of an Extraterrestrial race has the power to ruin the U.S, and any other countries that hold any scrap of info if revealed. They'll protect it with anything to keep our country going.

They don't care about the religious side of it, they only care about losing money (which will happen).

Also, supposedly, my avatar is a real picture. ;)

[White_Hawk_UK]

I'm not sure it's entirely correct to state that they wouldn't care about the religious side of things, especially as in the US, church and state are fairly indivisable.

Think about it; if religious leaders applied enough pressure to have school and history books re-written to inaccurately portray the method of crucifixion used by the Romans, how far would they go? There was a time when you were risking death just to suggest the Earth wasn't round, or wasn't the centre of the universe...

Taking the Catholic Church as just one example, it's a popular belief that the Vatican would gladly destroy evidence of extra-terrestrial life, as it would challenge certain assertions as a basis of their belief system. This is an easy assumption to make, and hard to disprove as a theory - absence of proof isn't proof of absence after all.

Governements also have to consider certain ramifications of confirming things that may prove to be otherwise explicable. I'm sure there's plenty being kept secret, regardless of the truth, but just imagine how easily a governing body could be discredited if they appear to subscribe to a belief, not just in the possibility of ET life, but in it's apparent affinity for visiting Earth.

It's easier for them to deny any proof until such a time as it becomes impossible. If the day comes when ET decides to land on the White House lawn (for example), it won't be a career killer for a country's leader to suggest that ET exists. Until then, there are still plenty of people to cry "crackpot" at the merest suggestion.

Perhaps you could provide a little detail on why you think it would be financially damaging to admit ET exists? I'm genuinely interested. :)

[ExcruciationX]

I don't know. It would make sense for a government to fall. It's already corrupted by keeping it secret.

[Gold Line]

did you know man has never steped on the moon it was all just fake.

[White_Hawk_UK]

Not that old biscuit again. This is where different groups of conspiracy-theorists must surely come to blows...

If man did not step on the moon, then they can't have found structures to explore, and over which to have the conversations listed in the link I provided above (post #116).

The two theories are mutually exclusive.

Unfortunately, while there is still plenty to question, most theories about the moon landings being faked are easily debunked. One should not confuse sheer weight of misinformation for proof of conspiracy.

[ExcruciationX]

I disagree, Goldline.

We've been to the moon. End of story.

[Gold Line]

I disagree, Goldline.

We've been to the moon. End of story.

yea i know but the live tv one was a fake

[Sonicboy 101]

I've seen loads of people go on the moon.
Well, on tv anyway. :rolleyes:

[shadowprophet]

I'm not certain that its been proven, but there have been many theories that there may be many rare and exotic materials to be found on the moon. "it's entirely possible" that it would be difficult for any given nation to stake a claim there though.

[White_Hawk_UK]

Yup. There are some interesting discoveries that show we have a lot to learn about the resource potential of the moon - from minerals unlikely ever to form in Earth's environment (eg (http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/moon_mineral_040427.html)), to vast solar-wind deposits of Helium-3 that could provide ready fuel for fusion reactors here on Earth - or even be an abundant source of power for moon settlers. Helium-3's value "in today's dollars is $5.7 million per kilogram" according to Direct.ca(2004) (http://www.direct.ca/trinity/helium3.htm).


Scientists estimate there are about 1 million tons of helium 3 on the moon, enough to power the world for thousands of years. The He3 is mainly imbedded in an ore called ilmenite.

A space vehicle with a payload bay the size of a space shuttle could bring back enough helium-3 to generate the electricity to satisfy the United States’ needs for a full year.


With the help of Hubble, according to National Geographic (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1019_051019_moon_oxygen.html), scientists discovered large volumes of this oxygen-rich mineral that could even make the production of breathable air a tantalising reality on the moon.

Regarding mining rights, Direct.ca mentions:

...a loophole in Space Law allows individuals and companies to hold Mineral Rights on the Moon, Mars and other celestial bodies. Growing concern from Scientists that these rights may be held hostage have been alleviated by a three man North American team; Dr. Joseph Resnick, Dr. Timothy R. O'Neill and Guy Cramer (ROC-Resnick/O'Neill/Cramer team) who have acquired the mineral rights for 95% of the side of the moon that faces Earth, the polar regions and 50% of the far side of the moon.
:eek:

[S34MU5]

Well you kinda made it so people would have to choose yes, by putting "im a retard" on the no option.

I chose no.

[SnesR0X]

why not?!?!?!?

[shadowprophet]

I question the physics of mining the moon though. What happens when we begin strip mining the moon? Can it be assured that this would never alter the moons gravitational pull on our oceans.

Its been proven "as far as I know" that the moons gravity is the force that gives us high and low tide. If the moons gravity where altered "even faintly". It could have a devastating impact on Microbial life in our oceans.

I'll grant you, im no physicist, So its far beyond my scope to say that mining the moon could effect its gravitational pull. Still as important as it is to life on earth, I would fear to do such a thing.

[ExcruciationX]

I question the physics of mining the moon though. What happens when we begin strip mining the moon? Can it be assured that this would never alter the moons gravitational pull on our oceans.

Its been proven "as far as I know" that the moons gravity is the force that gives us high and low tide. If the moons gravity where altered "even faintly". It could have a devastating impact on Microbial life in our oceans.

I'll grant you, im no physicist, So its far beyond my scope to say that mining the moon could effect its gravitational pull. Still as important as it is to life on earth, I would fear to do such a thing.
I never thought about that.

Now I'm questioning if we should mine there or not.

[shadowprophet]

An interesting side note on your avatar excruciationX, That picture has never been debunked.
It was taken in 1952 and later colorized for a documentary done for NBC.



""Yeah, I know, that sounds silly.
I read up on ufology. If anything else its a very interesting subject""

[Bradman]

The very idea that we are totally alone in the vastness of the universe is almost as terrifying as it is ridiculous.

[White_Hawk_UK]

I won't pretend to be a physics genius, but I can clear up a little detail or two:

The Moon gives us tides - this isn't just proven, it's observable and has been 'known' for generations. It is widely held that without the moon - and therefore, tides - life may never have evolved in the first place!

Tides are mostly caused by the pivotal affect of what is essentially a dual-planet system (Earth+Moon) rotating around its barycentre (the centre of combined mass). However, the tides are also influenced to a lesser degree, by the gravitational force of the Sun.

The mass of the moon is calculated at 7.35 x 10^22 kilograms (or 74 quintillion(US numerical standard?) tons (http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/AdaLi.shtml)), which works out at about 1.23% (1/81) of Earth's mass. As its average distance from Earth (an elliptical orbit means that this distance varies) is 384,467km, I'm sure you agree that the measurable effect it has is quite remarkable.

With this sort of mass, it is unlikely that human mining operations could have a noticeable impact upon it over anything but the most substantial period of time.

There is one thing to consider; the Moon's average distance from Earth is increasing by 3.8cm a year (such precision of measurement is made possible by laser reflectors left upon the surface of the moon by the Apollo missions) as a result of transferred momentum - a rate that has exponentially decreased over the 4.6billion years the Earth is estimated to have existed. This means that it once had a far, far greater influence on the Earth's tides.

It is a generally accepted theory that the Moon will eventually find a stable orbit very far from Earth, leaving the Earth with a pronounced wobble. The timescale involved is astronomical, however.

A slightly related fact; the action of the Earth's oceans/tides upon the surface of the planet (combined with the transfer of angular momentum to the Moon) has a braking effect equivalent to about 2.3milliseconds every century (though this rate is non-uniform and unpredictable). While this doesn't sound like a lot, the rate of decelleration is increasing. In one millenium, the day will be over an hour longer!

As the human biological clock is based on a 25hr day and is adaptable only to shorter periods, this could spell catastrophe for our entire race (think jet-lag multiplied daily). It also means that over time, it will take greater fuel-loads (or lighter payloads) to launch craft into space as they rely greatly on the imparted angular forces nearest the equator to aid rocket launches.

It should be noted that the gradual settling of the Earth's shape into a more perfect sphere as its rate of rotation decreases (reducing the angular forces that cause the equatorial bulge) is the primary reason for the tectonic activity that gave birth to countless mountain ranges and their modern-day replacements (though not necessarily the only reason for all tectonic activity). The Tsunami that struck South-East Asia not so long ago is an example of a minor adjustment in the Earth's crust as it settled.

As the Earth slows, and gets nearer to a spere in shape, the resulting tectonic activity decreases - which is why the mountains we have now will probably be the last ever formed on this planet. Earth has reached maturity, and calmed in the process.

Once you reach maturity, its all a downhill ride to old age, right..?

One way or another, I doubt we have enough time to substantially affect the moon's mass before we near our own demise!

(I welcome corrections to my interpretation of the facts, of course)
__________

On a side note, the Wikipedia has something to say about moon rights:

Although several flags of the Soviet Union (scattered by Luna 2 in 1959 and by later landing missions) and the United States have been symbolically planted on the Moon, no nation currently claims ownership of any part of the Moon's surface. Russia and the US are party to the Outer Space Treaty, which places the Moon under the same jurisdiction as international waters (res communis). This treaty also restricts the use of the Moon to peaceful purposes, explicitly banning military installations and weapons of mass destruction (including nuclear weapons).

A second treaty, the Moon Treaty, was proposed to restrict the exploitation of the Moon's resources by any single nation, but it has not been signed by any of the space-faring nations. Several individuals have made claims to the Moon in whole or in part, although none of these are generally considered credible.

[ExcruciationX]

White Hawk, how the Hell old are you?

[Sonicboy 101]

He's 29.

[ExcruciationX]

He's 29.
Obviously a vary bright twenty nine year old.

[shadowprophet]

Obviously a vary bright twenty nine year old.

Yeah. white hawk has surprised me a few times,

fascinating sort really,


"off topic edit"

I just found this, http://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page1988.html?theme=light

It seems a man in New Mexico found this interesting Rock with a very interesting design on it.
I could only assume its "native american" "possibly ceremonial" Its possible it could even be Mayan.
Its more likely someone just felt creative and made this their selves, Still its very interesting, Take a look

[White_Hawk_UK]

Cool. The pattern looks organic. I had a look to see if there was any relevant geological information online that might aid in an analysis. Alas, quick searches are no substitute for a degree. (hehe)

Still, you're neglecting the possibility that the pattern could have natural causes..? Water may not seem obvious out in the desert, but that rock appears to show signs of weathering, and even prolonged water errosion; the deep, rounded gouges/grooves, for instance.

I found something similar while I was looking for possibilities. A different formation, maybe, but with intriguing details. This one even poses the possibility of a mysterious message; though the offered explanation seems most plausible. o.O (http://cita.chattanooga.org/messageboard/)

[shadowprophet]

I suppose this could be natural causes, That's not the first thing that normally comes to mind when one sees a pattern this intricate, "Or at least, It took me a few minuets to study this, Before I decided this could be natural :o , lol. Still this piece belongs in a museum somewhere.

I also found this interesting piece of news, Which is of course, Off topic again lol.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6566317.stm

This article, explains how tiny microchips will be imbedded into plastic sheaths, "made into a kind of smart dust" to explore other planets. :cool:

[Accordion]

I just found this, http://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page1988.html?theme=light

It seems a man in New Mexico found this interesting Rock with a very interesting design on it.
I could only assume its "native american" "possibly ceremonial" Its possible it could even be Mayan.
Its more likely someone just felt creative and made this their selves, Still its very interesting, Take a look


most likely water erosion, proximity to molten rock[bubbles from volcano?] or even the remains of a moss, or lichen

or of course someone just had some fun

[tactful mcbee]

wow, now thats a biased test lol

[Accordion]

wow, now thats a biased test lol

there are many similar!

[White_Hawk_UK]

You know... I still haven't added my vote to that poll... :P

EDIT:
Recent UFO sighting in Guernsey (BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/guernsey/6591365.stm)), if anybody's interested.

Excerpt:

Captain Ray Bowyer was flying an Aurigny plane from Southampton to Alderney when he saw the objects through binoculars.

Mr Bowyer said he was "pretty shook-up" by the sighting.

"This is not something you see every day of the week - it was pretty scary," he said.

At first he thought it was the sun reflecting from greenhouses in Guernsey. He said the objects were bright like the sun, but did not hurt his eyes when he looked at them.

The stationary objects were also observed by other aircraft and the passengers on the plane.

John Spencer, deputy chairman of the British UFO Research Association, said: "These types of sightings have been reported by pilots - generally accepted to be reliable and sensible observers - since the 1940s and they have excited attention to this day.

"Such light effects are often popularly thought to represent alien visitors but many UFO researchers believe they more likely represent natural, atmospheric, phenomena not yet fully understood by science.

"However, a similar encounter in 1978 over the Bass Straits in Australia, where the pilot was in radio contact with the ground throughout, resulted in the pilot never being heard from again, so these phenomena are important to study."


That page includes a link to a fairly sober UFO research website, UFOEvidence.org (http://www.ufoevidence.org/) - good for a read. :)