Girls are best at gaming

[wraggster]

via the sun (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007200086,00.html)


WOMEN play computer games more than fellas — and are BETTER at them.

Two-thirds of those aged 25-43 play regularly, compared to 35 per cent of men, claims a poll of 2,000.

Psychologist Susan Quilliam said multi-tasking-women were better at problem solving. She said: “They are more intellectually prepared than men.”

[Jonesyxxiv]

lol

[Totalitarian]

Lies!

Firstly, there are no women on the Internet. If you ever face "one" in an online game they're likely a 50 year old man wearing a girl mask.

Secondly... errr. The Sun?

*shoves it where "the sun" doesn't shine*

...and lastly. What are women doing out of the kitchen anyway? I'm hungry.

*dives out of thread*

[The Hombrew Hunter]

If you do encounter a girl on a PC game, they're asses.

Plus, you can rape 'em.

Every girl I've faced in PVP hit the ground covered in blood in 5 seconds.

I love doing that. :p

[wolfpack]

notice how this study is done by a woman?

i say this is a little biased if you ask me

[sroon]

Its true lol Every girlfriend iv had always kicks my azz in videogames lol
maybe i just suck
( O )( O )

[Xiofire]

Does it really matter if your male or female? Just shutup and play the game. Sheesh!
-Xiofire

[g00gy]

Yep we men are teh Pro.

Hmm i wonder if there are any women on dcemu.

[FBomb]

Hmm, i believe this picture best describes my reaction to this article:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/AmericanBastard/women_internet.jpg

[Basil Zero]

Does it really matter if your male or female? Just shutup and play the game. Sheesh!
-Xiofire

Hehe

Exactly what I was gonna say.

As long as your having fun, so what who's better than who.

FBomb, that pic ROCKS!! LMAO

[Gene]

2000 is a very small figure compared to 6 billion people in the world. I would say that this experiment would not be considered a true random sample of the population.

If it was more like a random sample of 100,000 then i would believe the numbers to be a correct representation.

[Xcliber]

I'll bet that poll was taken on a website that mostly women visit to begin with...

[Shiesty]

women are only better than men at folding clothes and getting yeast infections


fact.

[XioN980]

Wome are cool :D

Feminists suck!!! :mad:

The only women that play games are feminists try to prove that women are superior.

Which is kinda stupid considering they claim to fight for equality, how can you have something superior over the other if one is superior??!? :confused:

[samthegreat68]

sexist doctor lady...

its funny when women like that have an inferiority complex and think that they need to prove something. we are all people just live your life!!

[Shatter]

Forum sexism is *way* funnier when people don't just repeat one another. But anyway:

Dumb study in the first place. Though plausible, no one's going to take you seriously talking about the 23-45 age group. Now, talk to me about your preteens to early twenties and you've got something.

I had an advantage when I started gaming because I was a youngest child and had watched my brothers play for years. That same element of surprise applies with age and gender - most people don't expect girls to game.

And, of course, the key advantage: most gamer guys who would actually care about this survey and/or believe girls to be inferior have not, in fact, touched a girl in their small, lonely lives. Once they sense the presence of a Double X'er, they get all flustered and can't remember their basics. Then we win. It works beautifully.

That being said: I am an inferior gamer. Not because of any gender reasons, but simply because I don't play enough to be good.

[The Virus]

Why is this sexist bullshit even being posted here? For me it's damn ****ing annoying that every time I go to see PSP news I find this sexist shit instead. ffs

[Gene]

Wome are cool :D

Feminists suck!!! :mad:

The only women that play games are feminists try to prove that women are superior.

Which is kinda stupid considering they claim to fight for equality, how can you have something superior over the other if one is superior??!? :confused:

Good point.

[Shatter]

Wome are cool

Feminists suck!!!

The only women that play games are feminists try to prove that women are superior.

Which is kinda stupid considering they claim to fight for equality, how can you have something superior over the other if one is superior??!?Good point.

My god...brilliant! Of course! How had I never considered that fighting for equality and competition are mutually exclusive things?

Oh, yeah, that's right. When I prove my superiority in, say, a simple card game, I am then treated equal to those who had once treated me unequally.

I play games because they're fun. And because I've got a competitive streak in me a mild wide.

Of course, guys would never try to prove their superiority over one another in any sort of competitive way. That would be so harsh and unfeeling. They all get along, and play for the fun. There's no ego involved at all.

People play games to have fun and to win. It's not about girls being better than boys or boys being better than girls. It's about Me Gamer being better than You Gamer. Save your gender battles for some other medium, because gaming is about personal pride. No feminist movement ever said,

"And, in 2003, RunzWiTD4BoyaZ successfully 'pwnd' Splurginator333xxx5, marking her two-hundredth triumph for feminists everywhere. Thank you, RunzWiTD4BoyaZ. Truly, an American hero."

[chrisnoob]

What kind of games was this based on Everyone Knows the CS source pros are all guys

[Nikolaos]

Never!!! i refuse to believe it *runs*

[Veskgar]

You have to take into consideration that the majority of women online play web-based puzzle type games. Like on POGO or YAHOO and stuff like that.

There is only a small percentage of women playing MMORPG's or first-person shooter type games.

I honestly don't think you can compare web-based novelties like POGO, with video games on the XBOX 360, PS3, or PC.

I have nothing wrong with girl gamers and wish there were more. I have noticed that a lot of girls I know really enjoy HALO 2 on XBOX live. So perhaps when HALO 3 is released there will be an influx of girl gamers signing up for XBOX Live accounts.

[jdnation]

What 'computer games'? Yeah, because solitaire and hearts are so exciting... I'll gladly bow down before women's abilities being superior to men in free Windows card and puzzle games. Quality article there 'The Sun'

[IM back!]

this is sexist bull.

xxgamer is equal to xygamer. the end.

BTW Shatter: i didnt know we had a girl gamer at dcemu.

[The Hombrew Hunter]

And, of course, the key advantage: most gamer guys who would actually care about this survey and/or believe girls to be inferior have not, in fact, touched a girl in their small, lonely lives. Once they sense the presence of a Double X'er, they get all flustered and can't remember their basics. Then we win. It works beautifully.


Ma'am, I respect your views on this subject, but unfortunately...

I must call Bullshit.

Even if a guy didn't touch a girl before, depending on how nerdy they are, they could just take it as some kinda computer player.

Not saying I would, but I know plenty of people who don't care if you're male or female.

XX or XY, doesn't matter. I still hand you your ass as Mr. Game and Watch or Lord Toshiro.

Gaming isn't about male or female.

Depends on your skill, hand-eye coordination, and how long you've practiced.

It's like a sport. Doesn't matter if you're male or female in Basketball. It depends if you can shoot or not.

And I've played a few rounds of some Naruto fighting game with a girl I have a crush on. I never played it before, but I'm a button masher. I still won. Of course, Button Mashing usually works better than actual strategy.

Edit of Off Topic- AWESOME! QUESTIONABLE BEHAVIOR! LET'S ALL HAVE A DRINK!

*gets drunk*

[Shatter]

I'm with you on this, Hombrew. Well said. Although, at the professional level, men do have a physical advantage in basketball. Unfair, but true. Men and women aren't built the same, so there is some small advantage to be had in basic physiology.

But that's not my beef.

What I'm not understanding is how, post after post, each and every one of the jokers thinks he's being somehow original.

The jokes aren't offensive to my sex, they're just offensive to my sense of humor. The joke has been done, people. Unless you have something that's actually, I don't know...clever? To add, then just keep your biting wit to yourselves.

A handy guide:
"Get me a napkin, woman" joke: acceptable within five posts.

"What games? Barbie Horseback, sure." - two posts

"Bitch ninja'd my epic!" - seven posts

"This sounds like some feminist bull." - unlimited acceptability.

"Feminists suck! = teh dykes n bitchez." - you lose at life. Please try again. Unfortunately, this will require a total reboot.

"Whatever! I am a man! A manly man! The beef-eating beefiness that is my macho manliness insists that women must remain in the kitchen! I am literally ripping my shirt as I flex my biceps in rage! Halo 2 is a game ruled by us, the dominant sex, that is, the men! With penises! That are very large! Man thoughts!" - acceptable within ten posts.

There. I hope this has cleared up any and all confusion.

[Jonesyxxiv]

Shatter did you just make an account on this site to argue this subject? 30% of your posts are in this thread.

[Basil Zero]

The Sun is like the most horrible news paper i hear from my friends from euro

so........of course they would make a bad article on a bad newspaper LOL

[pt9087]

LMAO! that is funny. i have only come across a few girls on online games! i think its all lies!

[10shu]

Ohh! if the Sun say so it must be true :)
next time could u also post the page 3???...

[The Hombrew Hunter]

Ah.

I understand what you're getting at, Shatter.

Though, I've met quite a few female asses on GW.

Damn that xX Sakura xX...I swear, I will hunt her down in PVP and slash open her intestines with my short blades.

I DON'T LOSE LIFE EVERY SECOND, BITCH.

....

Ahem.

[gtgpeople]

and this is why a lot of you will never get layed and relay on masturbation.

[devdj]

ah pussy are good at puzzle type games but they are no where near at the top level of real games like FPS and RTS and RPG games no way but they are good at the sims type and the virtual sex games. Oh bye the way did ya know Jamie Lee Curtis was born a Hermaphrodite, who have both female and male sex organs but are still referred to as females, its just some info i came across looking up info on the actors and actress's from the Halloween movies.

[Shatter]

Shatter did you just make an account on this site to argue this subject? 30% of your posts are in this thread.

...no, I made this account to shamelessly plug my home site. After that fell through, I decided to check out the rest of the site.

And then I found this topic. And who doesn't love a good conflict? Silly me, I thought I'd find an intelligent discussion. But making fun of stupid people is almost as entertaining. More, really.

[iniquitous_beast]

Not a large enough survey. If I read it correctly, it said that 2 out of 3 women are gamers; while only about 35% of guys are? That can't be true. If female gamers outnumbered male gamers, then the majority of male gamers would not still be virgins (since the accusation has already been made). Also, this site would have many more female members.

How do you define a gamer anyway? I have talked to quite a few women who played video games back in the 8 and 16-bit days but stopped around the time that they hit puberty. They can't be counted as gamers, even if they might try a song of Guitar Hero at a friend's house from time to time.

The location of the pole is also important. I'm in Kansas right now, and if I were to do the same pole and apply it to the same age category, I'd probably find a lot of women who were too busy with religion and parenting to even consider games.

BTW: Welcome to Dcemu, Shatter.

[wolfpack]

...no, I made this account to shamelessly plug my home site. After that fell through, I decided to check out the rest of the site.

And then I found this topic. And who doesn't love a good conflict? Silly me, I thought I'd find an intelligent discussion. But making fun of stupid people is almost as entertaining. More, really.

i challenge YOU to a game of halo 2 on xbox live (no joke, i wanna see how good you are) :thumbup:

or any other game that works

[SnesR0X]

interesting, maybe if a guy and girl have equal experience the girl has the upper hand, but it seems a bit fishy to me

[Basil Zero]

To tell u the truth, I havent even met a girl(internet or real life) that plays games.

[Kloe]

this survey has no scientific approach what so ever. For one, which type of games is this person referring to? If she's referring to all games across all genres i'm sure she didn't do that much research... because guys are better at some types of games while women are better at others. IF she wanted to make this study somewhat worthwhile she should have studied all genres and had a bigger sample than 2000. Overall i'd rate this research 1 out of 10, not even worth listening to.

[jwilds73]

Women are great problem solvers. This woman needed 5k gold in World of Warcraft and came up with a quick and easy solution http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/3307/wowmounttd6.jpg :rofl:

[dark heart]

NOBODY CARES. now go back and make some better news "the sun"! --worst news ever-- (as far as i know.) :D

[XioN980]

Shatter: You misunderstand what i mean, you see, i tread genders EQUALLY, i dont believe feminsists are STUPID i believe they are so ARROGANT that they become IGNORANT, you dont seem to be able to read between the lines

also Are you a man or a woman? cos not all the girls i know like feminism at all, they also believe it is overrated.

Why is it that we only have violence against women laws?

Because its bat to beat a woman you may say...

But of course it is NEVER provoked is it :)
And doesn't that sorta contradict the whole point of feminism?

Also the fact that feminists brought in these laws in australia, and not violence against men laws as well, is also defiant of the feminist cause

I havn't lost at life at all, i and i still think modern-feminism is completely self contradictory, not at all what original feminism started out as, and you contribute to this.

Kepp your snake in its cage.... DYKE

BTW: Its spelt Mile MILE no "d" twit

[gdf]

ehh.. the study said 2/3 between 25-45. MY ARSE. my mum and all her friends have played singstar like once. why are there not many women on online games or websites? because none of them play! i have nothing against women gamers but this study is clearly just a heap of shit. it is sorta like saying "not only do men like to shop for clothes MORE than women, they also spend more money at it!"

[Mc_Logical]

lol women may be more intellectually prepared than men, but men have faster reactions and response to things, resulting we will prob kick ass lol but who cares really?

[Shatter]

Shatter: You misunderstand what i mean, you see, i tread genders EQUALLY, i dont believe feminsists are STUPID i believe they are so ARROGANT that they become IGNORANT, you dont seem to be able to read between the lines

also Are you a man or a woman? cos not all the girls i know like feminism at all, they also believe it is overrated.

Why is it that we only have violence against women laws?

Because its bat to beat a woman you may say...

But of course it is NEVER provoked is it :)
And doesn't that sorta contradict the whole point of feminism?

Also the fact that feminists brought in these laws in australia, and not violence against men laws as well, is also defiant of the feminist cause

I havn't lost at life at all, i and i still think modern-feminism is completely self contradictory, not at all what original feminism started out as, and you contribute to this.

Kepp your snake in its cage.... DYKE

BTW: Its spelt Mile MILE no "d" twit

...let's not get started on grammar, shall we? For someone with multitudes of typos in his own typing, it's not good buisness. But I get off topic.

1.) There are not just 'violence against women' laws. Domestic violence applies to everyone. Children, husband, wife - everyone. It's a common misconception that only women are protected, simply because it is more common for a woman to be abused than a man. Not that it doesn't happen, just not as often.

Never provoked, is it? Oh, of course. Burning her man's meal? Bitch needs a fat lip - that'll teach her. Beatings are never justified on either end, except in self defense. Other than that? No. No, it's never provoked. There is nothing you can do or say that should be replied with a strike - unless you are in danger of being harmed. Speaking as a girl with some anger issues, this is a very hard lesson to learn. But that doesn't change the truth. Tell me, how does a woman 'provoke' a strike? What, she doesn't want sex tonight? She shouts at her hubby for some dumb mistake, even though she knows it was just a mistake, but it's been a really long day and she takes it out on him? That's wrong. She should apologize. Because that's wrong to do, too. But there is never, never any need for causing harm. So, no, you ****ing idiot, it's never provoked.

Although, I would like to hear how you say it can be deserved. Let's see you back that statement up, boy.

I'm not a feminist myself. And I think the cause has sort of run its course - not that we don't have farther to go, but just because the hard-core feminists are so ridiculously militant about it that I can't take them seriously. I believe women should have equal rights - so I suppose in that way, I'm a feminist - but I'm not on the "OMG MEN = TEH GREAT OPPRESSORS! RAARR!" bandwagon.

But please, do respond with how a woman can 'provoke' a strike. Not just make a guy angry, but actually deserve to be hit. Neither a husband nor his wife should ever lay harm on the other.

[El Stefio]

I'm just amazed that anyone actually gives a toss what the Sun has to say about anything...

[megalodon]

I'd really like to have some more normal, sane, girl-gamers. My ex was a girl-gamer that was ten times better than me in FPS's and any fast-paced game, but if I beat her even ONCE in a given game, she would disconnect, and never play with me again in that particular game. She was also quite a bit of a nut-job, I'm afraid, and I'm not saying that just because she is my ex. Thank god my current girlfriend is not a gamer.

But that is really not the point here. Saying that most girl-gamers are better at games because: “They are more intellectually prepared than men.” is just sexist and is exactly like all those monkies here screaming: "women belong in the kitchen!!!", only this time, it's pseudo-scientific.

[Hungry Horace]

I'm just amazed that anyone actually gives a toss what the Sun has to say about anything...

unfortunately there are a lot of people too lazy (and sometimes stupid) to read anything else and/or form their own opinions.

whilst i think the statistic is dumb (you can prove anything you like with stats) surely a male / female divide is something that we all want to break down?
this "articile" (if 3 lines counts as an article these days) does nothing but promote the somewhat tragic behaviour we've seen here.


i've played many of my friends at games and some girls and better at some games than me, and others are a bit rubbish. It's all down to the individual in the end.

[gutbub]

hey, did u guys notice the study is based on 2,000 people?
2,000 out of 6,000,000,000
is that even a half of a percent?

[Psyberjock]

Shatter: You misunderstand what i mean, you see, i tread genders EQUALLY, i dont believe feminsists are STUPID i believe they are so ARROGANT that they become IGNORANT, you dont seem to be able to read between the lines

also Are you a man or a woman? cos not all the girls i know like feminism at all, they also believe it is overrated.

Why is it that we only have violence against women laws?

Because its bat to beat a woman you may say...

But of course it is NEVER provoked is it :)
And doesn't that sorta contradict the whole point of feminism?

Also the fact that feminists brought in these laws in australia, and not violence against men laws as well, is also defiant of the feminist cause

I havn't lost at life at all, i and i still think modern-feminism is completely self contradictory, not at all what original feminism started out as, and you contribute to this.

Kepp your snake in its cage.... DYKE

BTW: Its spelt Mile MILE no "d" twit

Woah woah woah there buddy.... You're going a little overboard here. Why are you flaming Shatter? Cause she's witty and makes you feel insecure?

Chill out, you're single-handedly proving your own case against yourself. You're like judge, jury, prosecution, defense, AND executioner all wrapped up into one.

Are you really even a coder? What have you coded? I'll immediately stop using that program if it's on my PSP. I don't want to even be remotely connected to the crazy ideas you're cooking up.

[stedaman]

"She says"

Utter rubbish.

[shadmeister]

For those of you in the US or other, the Sun is a tabloid paper that has Front Page titles such as "Freddy Starr ate my Hamster". It is a low brow newspaper, that also has a woman showing her breasts on Page 3. (hurrah).

Other such papers are the Daily Sport, which is slightly worse with headlines such as "Lancaster Bomber back from the Moon" ( i kid you not). In addition, on the positive side for the Daily Sport, it does seem to have more breasts. (hurrah x 3 )

Any article in the Sun will have to be taken with a pinch of salt.

In addition, my wife thought i was a Pagan. Every night it was burnt offerings. :D

[bullhead]

If The Sun said it, it must be true. (What she said about multitasking made sence though)

[ShinMike]

oh well this article should be digged haha its too funny

anyways, spending over 2 hours a day playing a game even if its bejeweled, its good enough to call someone a gamer, so there, i've met girls pretty good at puzzles and some at fps.
its all equal, they arent as hardcore as the guys can get, but they are still gamers, and maybe better than the guys! =/

[Shatter]

That's pretty good stuff. I once saw one...I think it might have been the Washington Star. The article has these pictures of toy dinosaurs in black and white, like the little plastic ones six-year-old's play with, blown up to look like they're taller than the man in the pic. Title:

Saddam's Secret Weapon: And Bush Knew About It!

[RedKing14CA]

so thats why i get my ASS kicked on CSS....

[Broadus]

Wow, another one of those "Women are another species which must be constantly analyzed" things. How refreshing!

[Chronomaster]

To begin, I will say I created this account just because this topic always interests me.

Shatter, first off, I've been dying to say this since your lines caught my attention. If you came to this thread expecting to see a decent conversation on the idea of one sex holding generic superiority over a certain task, know this.

You're on the internet.
YOU'RE ON THE FRICKIN' INTERNET.
We are all more likely to die by meteor impact (figurative) as you read this post before a civil conversation ever takes place across the intartubes.
With that out of the way, I'll begin my content.

To the article, someone has pointed out that it is in fact from a tabloid. I'll ignore this to make my point that any study done in gender studies towards video games to obtain this result is a steaming pile of horse scat. If such were true, I'd have a lot more girl friends than the small handful I know (I'm at a dearth of friends overall, but it just means I'm closer to the ones I know). Seriously, out of the entire college population in my area, I haven't seen a single girl play video games well. Hell, I'm hard pressed to find moments where girls were playing video games in public. To extend this, I know a girl who was once a devout video gamer, and even pressured her to play with our group every once in a while, and she would lag behind our play group. My experience and passive research is just as good as a sampling of 2000 people, no?

The claim itself is a load. The possibility, however, never is. That is to say, women can exceed men just as easily as men can exceed women in a gender-neutral (as in, without social bias) activity. Gender isn't a relevant quality. Experience is. No evidence will tell you otherwise.

[Hungry Horace]

@ shadmeister - you should let people know however, that allthough the Sun is "low brow" it is the most popular newspaper (if you can call it that) in the UK.

somewhat sad really.

i guess most people cant be bothered kicking their brains into gear.

[Adrenalin]

As 95& of previous posters, i agree this is bull.

The truth is guys, women always complain about their rights and fight for "equality" but what they really want is MORE power than men.

Women have come so far in todays society in terms of gender equality.
BUT as they gain more power do the feminist groups decrease? You'd think so BUT NO, the groups just grow and grow.

Where are the male support groups? There is none. Why? Because most of us don't bother bitching about such trivial matters.

Get back in the kitvhen bitches!

End Rant.

[heavenintheabyss]

I love women.

[Shatter]

As 95& of previous posters, i agree this is bull.

The truth is guys, women always complain about their rights and fight for "equality" but what they really want is MORE power than men.

Women have come so far in todays society in terms of gender equality.
BUT as they gain more power do the feminist groups decrease? You'd think so BUT NO, the groups just grow and grow.

Where are the male support groups? There is none. Why? Because most of us don't bother bitching about such trivial matters.

Get back in the kitvhen bitches!

End Rant.

Some militant feminists do seem to be looking more for reparations than actual equality. But, then, as the saying goes, "If you would hit the mark, you must aim above it."

Feminist groups *are* decreasing. Do you see big bra-burning days anymore?

But as more problems are solved, more always show up. It's the way of things. Think about it like food. You're eating a three-course dinner of potato soup, steak, and a chaser of blueberry pie. I have bread and water. "This is bullshit," I say. And I fight. And I am positively *ecstatic* when you give me a hamburger, a Coke, and a Freezie-pop. But my kids say, "This is still bullshit." And they fight. And *they* get (after much struggle), potato soup, steak, and a piece of blueberry pie.

For awhile, things are good. But the keener-eyed diners are saying, "Hey...why do they have salt? Why is their meal cooked to order? Why is their pie topped with whipped cream? This is still bullshit."

By this point, however, the original steak-eater is saying, "Jesus! Just take what you're given, it's not that big of a difference!"

The diner who had bread and water says, "Yeah...but it could be worse. It's bullshit, but I can't do anything."

The later diners who had hamburgers say, "Meh. It's bullshit I can live with. Is salt and whipped cream worth this much effort?"

But these newest diners are still right. "If it's not such a big difference, why can't I just have my salt and whipped cream? This is bullshit."

Of course, there are your wackos - the old guy grumbling because now he can't have as much steak now that everyone is getting steak, and wishes they would just go back to giving bread and water. There're the new diners that demand lobster tails and creme brulee, and believe that the first diners deserve only crumbs.

But no one takes the wackos seriously. And when the wackos join one side or the other, that side is weakened. And because they're the loudest and the most obnoxious, no one really hears the order - only the wackos.

So ends this long, drawn-out metaphor. Yaaaay, metaphors!

[heavenintheabyss]

Some militant feminists do seem to be looking more for reparations than actual equality. But, then, as the saying goes, "If you would hit the mark, you must aim above it."

Feminist groups *are* decreasing. Do you see big bra-burning days anymore?

But as more problems are solved, more always show up. It's the way of things. Think about it like food. You're eating a three-course dinner of potato soup, steak, and a chaser of blueberry pie. I have bread and water. "This is bullshit," I say. And I fight. And I am positively *ecstatic* when you give me a hamburger, a Coke, and a Freezie-pop. But my kids say, "This is still bullshit." And they fight. And *they* get (after much struggle), potato soup, steak, and a piece of blueberry pie.

For awhile, things are good. But the keener-eyed diners are saying, "Hey...why do they have salt? Why is their meal cooked to order? Why is their pie topped with whipped cream? This is still bullshit."

By this point, however, the original steak-eater is saying, "Jesus! Just take what you're given, it's not that big of a difference!"

The diner who had bread and water says, "Yeah...but it could be worse. It's bullshit, but I can't do anything."

The later diners who had hamburgers say, "Meh. It's bullshit I can live with. Is salt and whipped cream worth this much effort?"

But these newest diners are still right. "If it's not such a big difference, why can't I just have my salt and whipped cream? This is bullshit."

Of course, there are your wackos - the old guy grumbling because now he can't have as much steak now that everyone is getting steak, and wishes they would just go back to giving bread and water. There're the new diners that demand lobster tails and creme brulee, and believe that the first diners deserve only crumbs.

But no one takes the wackos seriously. And when the wackos join one side or the other, that side is weakened. And because they're the loudest and the most obnoxious, no one really hears the order - only the wackos.

So ends this long, drawn-out metaphor. Yaaaay, metaphors!

Shatter,
I'm with you.
I have a book recomendation.
Its called Female Chauvinist Pigs: Women and the Rise of Raunch Culture.
Its an interesting look at current "feminists".
give it a read sometime.