Anyone else worried about Revolution's Power?

[ptr.exe]

Just a thought: with the other two next-gen consoles boasting huge processors that will undoubtedly pump out heat, surely the Revolutions small size - 3 stacked DVD cases, will limit the possibility of a powerful machine ie. how can you cool a powerful proccessor in a tiny box?

I'm well aware of Nintendos policy of gameplay not graphics which i completely agree with, but surely in the fight for its old spot of no. 1 in the home console market, its gonna need a machine with a good graphical punch to convince the casual gamers out there.

Any thoughts?

[fackue]

The Revolution is known to be 2-3 more powerful than the GameCube making it roughly a little faster than the current XBox.

I'm not really worried, because it's said that all 3 consoles will provide the same graphics.

From what I read Nintendo is going to release specs on the Revolution once the get the stats on what the games are playing at, and figuring out what speed they play.

[Darksaviour69]

The Revolution is known to be 2-3 more powerful than the GameCube making it roughly a little faster than the current XBox.


the gamecube currently closer to the xboxs power than that (actually sometimes it has the best looking of multi platform games i.e. POP:WW) but i do thing that the Revolution will be the weekest, but you never know

[ptr.exe]

I don't mind it being the weakest, but at least close to the competition.

Fackue, where did you hear that? at nintendo's pre-E3 press conference they said the revolution will be slightly more powerful than GC, although they always play down the power of their consoles.

[Cap'n 1time]

Nintendo has taken some crazy risks lately (trading internet options for connectivity). I dont think they are going to blow it this time really. Besides, i think that the new Zelda looks similare to what the Next Gen consoles are pushing out. Do we really need life like graphics to play games? Hell I still like my snes.

[ptr.exe]

I agree, but my thoughts are more on what the mainstream casual gamer will think of it, i wan't ninty to pull back at least a bit of the market in Europe.

Risk? do you mean favouring online as appose to connectivity? if yes then; its no risk! connectivity was a dud, online hasn't taken off so well this generation but should be big next time.

[kof2000]

just a dateil. the graphics today (gamecube) r really nice looking so the next gen dont need a processor 100 times more powerfull to have realtime cg graphics. i think the revolution will do the job...

[Cap'n 1time]

I agree, but my thoughts are more on what the mainstream casual gamer will think of it, i wan't ninty to pull back at least a bit of the market in Europe.

Risk? do you mean favouring online as appose to connectivity? if yes then; its no risk! connectivity was a dud, online hasn't taken off so well this generation but should be big next time.

online play was VERY populare for the xbox. i would say at least 1 in 5 xbox owners had xboxlive or some way of connecting their xbox's through the internet.

Nintendo would have done just fine with internet connectivity in my opinion and it might have even killed some of the competition if they had included it.

[Darksaviour69]

1 in 5 xbox owners had xboxlive or some way of connecting their xbox's through the internet well in the uk, i don't think thats true, i only know 1 or 2 with xbox live but i know loads with xboxs. also only about 20% of the uk has BBand!

[Cap'n 1time]

well in the uk, i don't think thats true, i only know 1 or 2 with xbox live but i know loads with xboxs. also only about 20% of the uk has BBand!

oh. i guess thats just for the US then. I dont xbl did to great in japan either.

[Darksaviour69]

Only 1.7 million have sold in Asia. ( That compares with more than 13 million in the US and another five million in Europe) ... also in the other hand the dreamcast the last time i heard (5 years ago) had sold 2.5-3 million units (i think its more the 4-5 million mark in the end as 10million dreamcast where made and sold in the worldwide).

so yeah the xbox was a huge failure in japan. world wide there where about 20million xboxs sold, about the same as the gamecube, (but the gamecube is a little less i think). just to point out MS lost money for every xbox they sold while nintendo made money for every GC sold... so the xbox success (and ninty failure) are not a big as you think

[Christuserloeser]

GameCube and XboX are very close to each other when it comes to gfx. Their on par. The Revolution will be better than the GameCube so what's exactly the problem?

I don't think Nintendo will have the weakest system - in fact even if they do have the weakest system, after all their new machine technically will still be absolutly comparable to what MS and Sony will come up with.

See Dreamcast and PS2 - they're much much weaker than XBoX or GameCube though both of them still seem to be able to produce similar graphics than XboX or GC - especially the last generation of PS2 games looks pretty much like better XBoX or GameCube games.

PS: DC has sold about 5 million times in about 1, let's say 2 years (JP) - just like Saturn in four to five years. The other 5 million DC's were sold the year after Sega stopped production.

[ptr.exe]

I'm not going to explain fully, but basically companies are lazy, the GC and Xbox could be pushed so much further but they don't as then you'd have a massive divide in the quality of multi-format games on Ps2, GC and Xbox, Sony's major influence into many of todays publishers stops this from happening. However the divide is clear on console-exclusive titles.

There is a huge differance in quality between DC/PS2 and GC/Xbox, look at GT4 or GTA:SA on Ps2 by Gc/Xbox standards they look crap, GT4's backgrounds are ugly and poorly done, and GTA is just plain ugly. Whereas Metroid Prime, Halo, Resi4 all prove what a little more power can do graphically.

Anyway, ive gone off topic. The Revolution will probably be very similar to Xbox 360 power-wise, as the Xbox is getting released almost a year earlier Revolution will be of similar power by then, as Nintendo have said they are not putting much emphasis on graphical power. Ps3 will be most likely the most powerful as simple-minded Sony will focus on producing the most powerful machine with the lowest production costs and therefore crap build quality.

PS: don't see your point about DC sales.

[Darksaviour69]

its not fair to say that they are lazy, the higher the detail, the more work that has to done which leads to higher development costs. at the rate its going the next gen development cost r going to be HUGE... is this bad because there will be less game, and less original games...... what everyone has forgot XNA, ms's middleware tools that seem to make the process easier... that could be a big factor in the next gen war

[Cap'n 1time]

Ps3 will be most likely the most powerful as simple-minded Sony will focus on producing the most powerful machine with the lowest production costs and therefore crap build quality.

not really. The xbox should have a similare price, but i think it will be more expensive to produce. 3 cores capable of 1 teraflop vs. a cell processor capable of 2 teraflops.

What really sets them apart is the type of memory they both use though. Thats where I think Sony will pull ahead. Still I believe that the xbox will be more costly to produce.

Also, as you said, Sony has more support on the software side of things so i dont think you will see much of a lack of Software taking advantage of the hardware.

Both systems are very powerfull and Not many games on the current market could take FULL advantage of them. But as for the revolution - nintendo has never really done anything graphically amazing. It is all about gameplay.

[ptr.exe]

I know they'll have a similar price, i meant sony will try to increase their profit margin/decrease loss as much as possible, by cutting corners in production - sony products used to be a sign of quality they are now the worst built electronics on the market.

to be honest i don't mind that the Revolution could be underpowered personnally, but i think it may not do so well because of it, which concerns me considering the condition Nintendo is in in Europe/USA.

[WHurricane16]

I don't know, Nintendo is still being Nintendo when it comes to hardware specs. This will be there doom. No one cares about the 'Cube, and they are doing there best effort to make sure no one cares about the Revolution.

Odd company, reminds me of another one, Sega.

With a game like Resident Evil 4 in your stable, and an awesome new Zelda coming and no one is still talking about your system then you have issues. They can't even win in the current market, I thought there fan, media, and industry alienating tactics will go away.

Bye bye, Nintendo. Sorry for your stubborness.

*cough*It all won't matter when developers start cranking out the next generation of innovative software tricks with the PS3's cell processor *cough*

[Cap'n 1time]

... I think nintendo should start listening to their fans. They can still turn things around, but not with the current way they are managing things. Even their handheld is expected to loose its steam.

Speaking of their handheld - that gameboy micro. its a sexy machine but unless its like $40 i wont be buying it.

[MetaFox]

Can I ask what Nintendo's doing wrong? As it doesn't seem to be doing anything wrong in my eyes. I always see people saying Nintendo is doing everything wrong, but don't ever see anyone backing that comment up.

All I've ever read was complaints about the "kiddie" Zelda and lack of online play, both of which Nintendo are rectifying after listening to complaints from their fans.

So, what's Nintendo doing wrong? They're making more money than Sony and Microsoft (as far as the games industry is concerned), and they're making games that I enjoy. They don't seem to be doing bad at all.

[Christuserloeser]

They're doing nothing wrong. All that's not as good compared to Sony and Microsoft is the amount of time and money spend on advertising. Too bad that this is an important topic cause people are of course curious to learn about the quality of a new product. And that quality always was and will be Nintendo's speciality compared to all the more or less average Sony and Microsoft games.
If anyone complaining about Zelda - Wind Waker would ever have played it, they would pretty quickly change their mind pretty...

[quzar]

yea, i second that. even if nintendo sells less consoles, they are pushing out what, a good 20-30 first party titles that sell at a VERY high rate in ratio to consoles sold. Even if there are fewer GCs and GC games out there, it is almost all done by nintendo themselves, so they are in a very good position.

[WHurricane16]

Can I ask what Nintendo's doing wrong? As it doesn't seem to be doing anything wrong in my eyes.

Hmmm, ok....are you a die-hard Nintendo fan or something. Let me break this down:

(1) Marketing: I rarely see a single commercial for any GC games anymore. At least they should market games like Resident Evil 4 (it's 3rd party but Sony markets it's 3rd party games) or their Greatest Hits collection more. If you haven't notice but this is exactly what Sega did....poor marketing or none their of when their competitors hammered them with hype marketing.

(2)Fans: Where do I begin. The fact that this bastard plays proprietary mini-DVDs is a pain in the ass. First, it limits storage so the competitors can have bigger games the GC can't have. Second, you can't play DVD movies on this pig. Definitely a big deal for people on a budget, or people who travel alot. I didn't bother bringing my GC with me to the Middle East. Third, the whole online play fiasco....this is what gamers wanted in their next-generation consoles but Nintendo turned a blind eye. Which leads me to...

(3)Developers/Producers: The whole online play fiasco...if developers are having online games developed for other systems Nintendo just screwed itself right there because they had no plan to support it before nor after the GC launched. So when EA wanted to make online play a factor when competing with Microsoft's XBox Live, EA pretty much said "screw you, Nintendo". Sega, still competing with EA even though their sports franchise was clearly better, was losing money because of their GC software sales were shyser. This, and past Nintendo transgressions (staying with cartridge when software developers were trying to push the envelope with mass storage CDs) is a joke to the video games industry. Shows a tune of arrogance on their part. Nintendo wants to make high quality games, and will have the passion to do so for their own system but they have to think producers have little money to support their system when they have to carefully weigh the options/resources on what kind of games they need to produce when the market is flooded with consoles (and Nintendos many hand-held systems).


All I've ever read was complaints about the "kiddie" Zelda and lack of online play, both of which Nintendo are rectifying after listening to complaints from their fans.

First of all, Wind Waker is one of the greatest games of all time. If pubes rather play Grand Theft Auto instead of possibility the greatest game of all time that's an oversite by them. Don't lump every critic of Nintendo in the same category. To add to this, a very competitive console 1st part games does make. Another reference to Sega and it's Dreamcast.

Second, Nintendo has not rectify it's online strategy. EA jumped ship because of this, Sega sports has jumped shipped partially because of this (in my opinion, I can go deeper if you like), and there isn't a single game worth buying a GC for just to play online. Btw, I'm sure there is only a handful of games you can play online with the GC. I'm not talking about LAN games either.


So, what's Nintendo doing wrong? They're making more money than Sony and Microsoft (as far as the games industry is concerned

Because of their plethora of Gameboys, saturating it's on hand-held market. This is the ony reason Nintendo makes money. Any other stat you see is a lie, because I do not see Gamecubes flying off the shelves, and I don't see the big selection of GC games from store to store like I see PS2 and XBox (which is only hot in the US because American gamers are "different").

So, that's my take on it.....a take I totally believe to be 100% accurate. I don't care for consoles much at all (even though I just bought a PS2 again and I do own a Gamecube) so my opinion on the matter isn't blinded. 'Course, I'm still a bit miffed about the entire Dreamcast situation but I think that helps me view Nintendo's situation (and the video game market itself) in a more defined "light". I said the market can't sustain 3 consoles, and I still think I am right. The Revolution will dangle along because Nintendo will have 1st party games to keep it afloat at launch but Nintendo is looking at certain doom unless it changes some of it's strategies. Allowing the system to at least play DVDs will make it more respectable in my opinion...and I'm probably going to get a little heat for saying something so silly but the little things do count.

[Cap'n 1time]

If anyone complaining about Zelda - Wind Waker would ever have played it, they would pretty quickly change their mind pretty...

your absolutly right there! it was a hell of a good game. i even grumbled a little bit till i actually played it.

[Darksaviour69]

So, what's Nintendo doing wrong? They're making more money than Sony and Microsoft (as far as the games industry is concerned), and they're making games that I enjoy. They don't seem to be doing bad at all.

it not that good at nintendoland
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4581965.stm



As a result, it is forecasting a rise in operating profits to 115bn yen in the current fiscal year. However, that is less than the 122bn that many analysts had been expecting.

not bad news, but not good. but i do agree nintendo are doing better than people think. there bussiness plan does not aim for market domainance (unlike sony, and MS) so they don't have to be the market leader! while sony and ms are banking on it!

[Cap'n 1time]

This i read at xbox-scene.com today. It links to some site, which links to another japanese site called famitsu or somthing like that. Odd, but according to this, the japanese are more interested in the Revolution then they are in the PS3.



Next-Generation Survey in Japan: Xbox360 3rd
>> From advancedmn.com:


A new survey published by Famitsu has found out what next-generation console Japanese gamers are most interested in.
The survey found that 42.2% of Japanese gamers are most interested in the Nintendo Revoluton, with the PlayStation 3 coming in close behind with 39.8% of Japanese gamers being most interested in Sony's next-generation console. Only 18.0% of Japanese gamers said they were most interested in Microsoft's Xbox 360.


Read the whole article on advancedmn.com.
(May 30 23:46 EST) - (direct link to article)
(Posted by:: XanTium)

[Christuserloeser]

Heh, me too :D

[ptr.exe]

Nintendo are doing well in Japan, alot of people forget that. However in the UK they are barely a presence, the majority of shops you go in don't stock GC games, but with the arrival of the DS this is changing more and more shops are stocking DS stuff and actually having a decent display as appose to the non-existent GC and barely stocked GBA.
Good to see readers of a respected magazine like Famitsu are interested in Nintendo's next-gen offering.
As for Nintendo's marketing its still bad but is on the up, particularly DS ads, Nintendo DS sponsers all the Channel 4 top-100's and all comedy on Channel 4. There were loads of ads for DS at launch - and they were good as appose to the GCSE art student feel of the Donkey Konga ads.

[MetaFox]

Hmmm, ok....are you a die-hard Nintendo fan or something.Nope, I've just got a different view on "bad decisions" than most, apparantly.


(1) Marketing: I rarely see a single commercial for any GC games anymore. At least they should market games like Resident Evil 4 (it's 3rd party but Sony markets it's 3rd party games) or their Greatest Hits collection more. If you haven't notice but this is exactly what Sega did....poor marketing or none their of when their competitors hammered them with hype marketing.o_O Every time I turn on the TV, I see a commercial for Donkey Konga 2. I was just thinking the other day that I hadn't seen this much Nintendo advertising since the days of the SNES.


(2)Fans: Where do I begin. The fact that this bastard plays proprietary mini-DVDs is a pain in the ass. First, it limits storage so the competitors can have bigger games the GC can't have. Second, you can't play DVD movies on this pig.I don't give a cow's patoot about DVD playback. Counting my PS2 and PC, I have 8 DVD players, I really don't need more.

As for the mini DVD format - I say good for Nintendo. It's the longest running disc format to continue without being cracked (outside of Bleem).


(3)Developers/Producers: The whole online play fiasco...

Second, Nintendo has not rectify it's online strategy. EA jumped ship because of this, Sega sports has jumped shipped partially because of this (in my opinion, I can go deeper if you like), and there isn't a single game worth buying a GC for just to play online. Btw, I'm sure there is only a handful of games you can play online with the GC. I'm not talking about LAN games either.Nintendo hasn't rectified it with the Gamecube, and likely never will - but they're doing it on the Revolution and the Nintendo DS.

I don't see that as that big of a concern, at least not this generation. I only have one friend who went online with a console game, and he did not find it an enjoyable experience. Though, admittedly he went online with a PS2 game and not Xbox Live (I've heard Xbox Live is great, but it's not free - and my friend is cheap ;)).

Nintendo is likely building an Xbox-Live type of system for it's Revolution (and speculation is that it's going to be free).

I think Nintendo did the right thing to wait to get on the online bandwagon. At the time of the Gamecube's release online play on consoles was in it's infancy, and it's still in it's infancy. There still aren't many users for the Playstation 2 who go online, and Xbox Live is popular because of it's infrastructure. It costs alot of money to run servers, and since Gamecube would have to go the Playstation 2 route, Nintendo would lose money in order to enable GameCube games to go online.


Because of their plethora of Gameboys, saturating it's on hand-held market. This is the ony reason Nintendo makes money.Someone said it best on the DCEmulation forums a while back: Nintendo would rather be a profitable third than a money losing second or first. Nintendo makes money for each Gamecube sold, whereas Sony (and especially Microsoft) lose money on each console, and make it up in Software. Nintendo makes money in hardware and software. And that's not counting (as you said), the oversaturation of the gameboy market. Nintendo makes a good deal of money in all three markets. They're hardly struggling.


it not that good at nintendoland
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4581965.stm$87 Billion yen is "not that good"? O_o

[Cap'n 1time]

I think Nintendo did the right thing to wait to get on the online bandwagon. At the time of the Gamecube's release online play on consoles was in it's infancy, and it's still in it's infancy. There still aren't many users for the Playstation 2 who go online, and Xbox Live is popular because of it's infrastructure. It costs alot of money to run servers, and since Gamecube would have to go the Playstation 2 route, Nintendo would lose money in order to enable GameCube games to go online.


I am thinking about What the revolution's internet capabilities might be used for. As all of you know, the revolution will be able to run (through emulation I imagine) Nes, SNES, and N64 games... and mabey more nintendo machines. I think that they might charge a fee to download these older games on the machine. Thats really cool and all (hell id pay for it) but i have this bad feeling that nintendo might not pay much attention to online gaming... again.

[FrierTuck]

The whole subject is kinda scary, nintendo is going through its dark age only to be followed (hopefully) by a renisance period of unimagenable wealth and prosperity and games. All we can do is bunker down and wait until all the cards have been played.

[ptr.exe]

nintendo is going through its dark age only to be followed (hopefully) by a renisance period of unimagenable wealth and prosperity and games

I agree that its only a matter of time, but however i seriously doubt i'll ever see it in my lifetime :p
Nintendo have to wait until the market get bored of Sony, which i guess will happen some time around PS7. Also Iwata's tactics are a disgrace outside of Japan, advertising aside they're just not forcing shops to sell consoles.


but i have this bad feeling that nintendo might not pay much attention to online gaming... again

I think nintendo won't use as much as Sony or MS do at the moment where most games will have an online feature, but they will use it selectively for certain games eg. Animal Crossing. The amount of online success revolution has depends on 3rd party support, which should be good as many developers eg. Free Radical - TS3 wanted GC versions of their games to have online but Nintendo would not assist in the setup, if Revolution already has it then devvers will happily take advantage.
As for the retro downloads, i think the NES and SNES will work great as you can store hundreds of NES/SNES games on a single SD card, but won't N64 games take up loads of space?