BBFC rejects Manhunt 2

[mikebeaver]

Via MCV (http://www.mcvuk.com/)

British Classification body rules Rockstar cannot release upcoming PS2 and Wii sequel in the UK

"With Take 2 already in turmoil following the recent company-wide restructuring, the group has been dealt another blow with the news that Rockstar’s upcoming sequel Manhunt 2 has been rejected by the BBFC, meaning it cannot legally be supplied anywhere in the UK.

The only other game to ever be rejected by the body was Carmageddon in 1997, though that decision was overturned by the Video Appeals Committee.

"Rejecting a work is a very serious action and one which we do not take lightly,” BBFC director David Cooke stated. “Where possible we try to consider cuts or, in the case of games, modifications which remove the material which contravenes the Board’s published Guidelines.

“In the case of Manhunt 2 this has not been possible. Manhunt 2 is distinguishable from recent high-end video games by its unremitting bleakness and callousness of tone in an overall game context which constantly encourages visceral killing with exceptionally little alleviation or distancing.

“There is sustained and cumulative casual sadism in the way in which these killings are committed, and encouraged, in the game.


“Although the difference should not be exaggerated the fact of the game’s unrelenting focus on stalking and brutal slaying and the sheer lack of alternative pleasures on offer to the gamer, together with the different overall narrative context, contribute towards differentiating this submission from the original Manhunt game.

“That work was classified ‘18’ in 2003, before the BBFC’s recent games research had been undertaken, but was already at the very top end of what the Board judged to be acceptable at that category.

“Against this background, the Board’s carefully considered view is that to issue a certificate to Manhunt 2, on either platform, would involve a range of unjustifiable harm risks, to both adults and minors, within the terms of the Video Recordings Act, and accordingly that its availability, even if statutorily confined to adults, would be unacceptable to the public.”


In my opinion this is just the iceing on the cake, they can show what they like at the cinema or on TV, but we cant play a game because it might make someone violent, the BBFC are hypocrites.

[ICE]

hahahahaha good thing im american ;)

[Ci5tm Konfliqt]

That's annoying and as stated they are hypocrites

[Sonicboy 101]

Why does Britain always get treated like crap?

[Elven6]

This is gonna be mass imported just like Shenmue 2!

[Uberman]

Children are one thing, but disallowing adults to play it on those grounds is nothing short of censorship. I'll be amazed if they can get away with that.

[mcdougall57]

Why does Britain always get treated like crap?

same question and opinion

[Dogmatic1]

I think mod-chip sales just went up :p

The BBFC only bans stuff that it thinks will encourage public disorder (films like Bumfights where banned because they feared it would inspire copycats). They allowed the first Manhunt game, and there was quite a large murder case a while back where one teen killed his "friend" with a hammer; and blamed it on inspiration from the game. I think they're just covering their backs.

I know local councils can overturn BBFC classifications for films, but I don't know if the same applies for games, or if they can introduce their own classification when the BBFC has refused to give one.

[Raydar]

The BBFC are just a bunch of fascits - they should not be allowed to choose what people can and cannot play. The whole organisation needs to be disbanded and replaced with something which JUST passes classification and does NOT censor.

We're still living in the dark ages here.

[Elven6]

Why does Britain always get treated like crap?

Probably because Britian treated the World like crap back in the day.

[sick made j]

Wow.... too bad they don't let britts have guns or they might be able to overthrow their nazi parlament. good thing you guys can move to the u.s.a. (as long as you dont mind a massive increase in crime rate!) ha!

[Cloudhunter]

Thanks Jack Thompson! And everyone else who blamed Manhunt for the killing.

Cloudy

[sick made j]

sorry... the only thing I was joking about was the higher crime rate un the u.s.... not trying to imply any correlation....oh, and can anyone tell me where to get a Jack Thompson tee shirt (I love to hate that prick)

[cataphrax]

With freedom comes excess. The more freedom you have, the less safe you are from the general public. Not like video games are any great problem. Violent video games have been around lets say 15 years (i know, i'm probably wrong) Don't you think if there was anything to this whole video games make terrorists bullsh*t, someone would have gone on a rampage by now? Sure, theres been Columbine and V-tech, but those guys were a little screwy to begin with. I wrote about this for my english thesis. The crime rate in americas the lowest it's been for like 30 years. No ones been killing in the name of Manhunt or Doom at all. While i'm sure any violent game will aggravate the situation, only if it's someone who really needs some help to begin with. Also, when did it become a national organization's problem to tell kids what they can and can't do? Hasn't that always been the parents problem? This same bullsh*t happens all the time, whether its prostitution, gun control, video games, or radio. Goddamn, swears are just words, not tools of corruption, sex is just a bodily function and violent video games are just fantasy. Deal with it Jack Thompson.

[R4mbo]

Good Luck people from UK. Never forget you can boycott your Gouvernment by illegal downloading, which could be in your eyes a "protest".

[Baboon]

Well I think I could be getting a mod chip sooner than later. I was going to wait for my warranty to run out but this might make me change my mind now.

[Basil Zero]

I feel sorry for the european fans, not only do they get releases late, but they live in a place where good video games dont get released.

hopefully GTAIV wont get the same treatment as manhunt 2 got.

[jerrt]

i also frequent the video game website Destructoid and two of their editors [that live in england] are working to get support to show BBFC that they don't like this decision. i don't know how this site is about linking to the blog of the one who is starting this up, but i'm all about getting the word spread and help be garnered for what is truly right.

http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/JimSterling/uk-dtoiders-we-need-you-manhunt-2-related--33325.phtml

[Demolition49]

omg that has made me mad. Imports and modchips here i come, now i will actually get one, i was going to be legal but you cant stop my playing games i want to play.

[jonezybaby]

Good Luck people from UK. Never forget you can boycott your Gouvernment by illegal downloading, which could be in your eyes a "protest".

amen!!! if every1 starts to illigally download, surely every1 cant be put in prison?? lol

[Dickhead]

Well Iam from the UK and the policial correctness and regulations in our nation has become too much. I voted Tory not labour in the last Goverment election.

[Veskgar]

With freedom comes excess. The more freedom you have, the less safe you are from the general public.

That's a good point. In a truly free society, you won't be able to stop some of the whacko's out there because even whacko's will have rights. However, what people need to ask themselves is would they rather be less safe from the general public or less safe from their government?

See, in the United States, although you may be less safe from the public, especially in certain areas, you have the right to defend yourself, your property, and your family. With deadly force if need be. And free people prepared to not be victimized would be more of a deterrent to criminals than police. If only people would realize that it is a dangerous world we live in and stop being so complacent about safety.

With more government intervention, means more loss of privacy and the watering down of certain rights. That could easily lead to abuse and corruption by government officials. I'd rather be a little less safe from the public in my opinion. Censorship is not going to do much good. The more you say people can't have something, the more they want it.

I think this was a mistake to censor or not allow a Video Game. And the same thing better not happen in the United States.

[Uberman]

That's a good point. In a truly free society, you won't be able to stop some of the whacko's out there because even whacko's will have rights. However, what people need to ask themselves is would they rather be less safe from the general public or less safe from their government?

See, in the United States, although you may be less safe from the public, especially in certain areas, you have the right to defend yourself, your property, and your family. With deadly force if need be. And free people prepared to not be victimized would be more of a deterrent to criminals than police. If only people would realize that it is a dangerous world we live in and stop being so complacent about safety.

With more government intervention, means more loss of privacy and the watering down of certain rights. That could easily lead to abuse and corruption by government officials. I'd rather be a little less safe from the public in my opinion. Censorship is not going to do much good. The more you say people can't have something, the more they want it.

I think this was a mistake to censor or not allow a Video Game. And the same thing better not happen in the United States.


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Unfortunately, collective intelligence has been on the decline in both countries since the Revolution. :(

[Dogmatic1]

Wow.... too bad they don't let britts have guns or they might be able to overthrow their nazi parlament. good thing you guys can move to the u.s.a. (as long as you dont mind a massive increase in crime rate!) ha!

Technically, we can own any gun we like... as long as we can justify it. Sadly, "I want a Glock 23, because it's a very efficient crime prevention product" isn't valid justification. Oh well :p

And no, short of a) marrying an American b) being some sort of genetic scientist c) being a millionaire, we can't legally live in the US (and quite ironically, after we have owned a gun [illegally], we can't stay there for any more than 90 days).


See, in the United States, although you may be less safe from the public, especially in certain areas, you have the right to defend yourself, your property, and your family. With deadly force if need be. And free people prepared to not be victimized would be more of a deterrent to criminals than police.

The idea in the states, as far as I understand it is "you're as safe as you make yourself". Primarily, you are responsible for your own safety, and you only become a victim if you allow yourself to be. Here in the UK, you're not allowed to take your own safety into your own hands, you must rely on the Police. This isn't just the idea of the current government, but one of the people; so the only way to remedy it is to break the law, and be looked down upon by your peers... but I think my safety is worth it.

Dickhead: Voting Tory isn't anything to be proud of either; they're just as guilty for the "nanny state" as Labour (they did introduce most of the stupid laws, and Labour have just decided they're not quite stupid enough).

[Accordion]

Well Iam from the UK and the policial correctness and regulations in our nation has become too much. I voted Tory not labour in the last Goverment election.

thats one of the most disturbing yet funny thing i have ever read in my life... people like you will be the ruin of this country.

and for those that don't know; the BBFC are very relaxed in their ratings and have just downgraded their rating system for games to a lower level compared to film.
which means this game must be awful.

[oooooomonkeys]

they cant tell us what we can and cant play? nothing should be able to be banned just given a rating of some sort. this is one of the crazyiest(sorry for the spelling) things i ve heard in my life. i agree with the nazi comment we live with a bunch of fascists and dictators who just do as they please cause they think it makes a better place for the general public as a whole, when we dont even get a choice ?

[watupgroupie]

Probably because Britian treated the World like crap back in the day.
Yes true but germany made a world war and i think most people have gotten over that because people change.

[devdj]

so will it not be cumin to Ireland after all

[mcdougall57]

See, in the United States, although you may be less safe from the public, especially in certain areas, you have the right to defend yourself, your property, and your family. With deadly force if need be. And free people prepared to not be victimized would be more of a deterrent to criminals than police. If only people would realize that it is a dangerous world we live in and stop being so complacent about safety.

i think id rather miss out on manhunt 2 or import it than have a robber dive through my window with a machine gun and be prepared to defend myself with a .45 magnum thats in my bedside cabinet

[Veskgar]

The idea in the states, as far as I understand it is "you're as safe as you make yourself". Primarily, you are responsible for your own safety, and you only become a victim if you allow yourself to be.

That is true to some extent in a lot of cases. However, I've seen surveillance video footage of 90+ year old elderly people being punched repeatedly so that some crackhead can take the $20.00 or so in the victims purse, wallet, etc. The victim certainly didn't "allow" that to happen. And that brings me to my main point. If more able bodied people showed better character and stood up against crime, those scum of society would think twice.

Now we can't all become vigilante's but hopefully people will start becoming better aware of their surroundings and what's going on around them.

Back on topic, this game can't be much worse than a lot of the R rated movies playing in theaters or unrated DVD's hitting store shelves every week. And movies are mostly live-action. Video games are computer animation.

If this goes through without a fuss, what's next? Hopefully a lot of people will make their opposition to this decision heard.


i think id rather miss out on manhunt 2 or import it than have a robber dive through my window with a machine gun and be prepared to defend myself with a .45 magnum thats in my bedside cabinet
I hear you! LOL - But that mentality feeds the point that censors of violent media try to make. It sounds like you are saying that if Manhunt 2 is allowed to be purchased by most anybody, there will suddenly be a surge of machine gun wielding violent criminals diving through people's windows. I also don't want to minimize the role of the police as they are owed a lot of credit and respect. Well, most of them. And communities are undoubtedly safer when there is a good police presence that is active and involved in positive ways with the community. Its just that criminals know that most people will just call the police instead of doing anything themselves. And then it takes the police so many minutes to arrive on scene. So in some cases, the police being called might not act as the biggest deterrent.

But if a town or neighborhood starts getting a reputation of ordinary people watching out for each other and not tolerating crime, criminal elements, troublemakers, etc. will likely decide to operate elsewhere.

[StormB]

thats one of the most disturbing yet funny thing i have ever read in my life... people like you will be the ruin of this country.

Can you qualify this? I really don't see how someone voting Tory makes them part of the ruin of the country. Surely people are entitled to vote how they see fit?

Will

[Spotfist]

well I just had a look on play.com and they say the game is "18+ (BBFC)"


http://www.play.com/Product.aspx?title=3317695&r=PS2&PRODUCT_TITLE=Manhunt+2

[cataphrax]

This whole argument is an absolute load. Censorship in and of itself is an unjust and inhumane activity. First of all, the censoring of swears is ridiculous as they are just words after all and not in fact a magic spell that will corrupt the youth. Also, if you abolish one swear, another will simply take its place, they are nessescary pieces of language that are merely strings of sounds that are used to express anger, hate, or some other emotion in a profound way, not some evil, immoral act. Then theres sex which is an absolutely natural occurence which is going to get to the youth no matter what. And finally violence which yeah, isn't all that great, but until theres anything conclusive done linking video games to violence its not right to restrict the public to the entertainment it desires, the public will decide whether they like the game or not, its not up to a federal commision to decide whether or not they can play it. I've looked at the studies done and there is not a shred of empirical evidence tying video games to violence or anything else for that matter. Besides which, how ridiculous is it to believe that little Billy who gets straight A's, has no family problems, is socially active and perfectly happy will suddenly become a deranged serial killer or some wife-beating racist because he watches South Park or played a level of Manhunt? People are naturally violent, id rather have someone vent it out on manhunt than me. It's not like if someone is murderously angry theyll play a violent video game and get even more angry. Do you get more angry when you punch a pillow? Sure, youll get ideas from it i bet, but if your gonna kill someone anyway, who cares where you got your inspiration on how to do it. If not video games, then a book and the cycle continues. Sorry, for the long post.

[cataphrax]

Yes true but germany made a world war and i think most people have gotten over that because people change.

Well, to be fair, the Nazi party started a World War and the other world war is quite a gray area. And to my knowledge, the Nazi party hasn't changed that much. People change, but groups like that usually do not as the people who are attracted to a group like the nazis probably aren't looking to turn it into a cleft pallete aid organization.

[dragonplus.cn]

跟我没关系

[Dudley]

hahahahaha good thing im american ;)

This post came back to haunt you rather didn't it?