Is $ony even trying anymore?

[BelmontSlayer]

Every new firmware they release gets cracked. They almost never change the encryption keys, let alone try a new algorithm. I'm guessing the only reason they even patch the holes is to make it look like they are taking a firm stand against piracy. So, what do you guys think? Will $ony ever try to take a stronger stance against the hackers?

*Note: I'm all for homebrew and hacking, I just want some opinions*

[parkermauney]

They haven't stopped obviously, didn't they change all the prx's to elf's or something.

I hope they don't quit, that means no more custom fw's! :(

[Anonymous D]

i spose they reckon that anyone who wanted homebrew would have it by now. they are wrong obviously as with the new exploit ishall cbe converting a few ore friends to the cause

[JKKDARK]

the software sales are good, so I don't think hacing the homebrew is really a problem.

[mexicansnake]

the software sales are good, so I don't think hacing the homebrew is really a problem.



Ohhh trust me they are a HUGE problem, just look at my city... The most part of the OE or other psp hacking stuff users buy pirated isos :(.

The homebrew is not the problem... the problem is the piracy.

[Gold Line]

why would sony want to block homeberw do you know how much cash there making from people like dark alex
people only buy a psp for homebrew.

[Anonymous D]

thats very true Gold line i only bought my psp for homebrew and a lot of my friends had deserted thier psps unitl i showed them homebrew apps.

[mexicansnake]

why would sony want to block homeberw do you know how much cash there making from people like dark alex
people only buy a psp for homebrew.

I got my psp just for homebrew, some homebrew apps like iso loaders or emulators and some other applications that could lead to piracy are "the problem" for $ony or another gaming company.

for $ony, a "normal" user would not download pirated .isos or roms, they own a copy instead and then they rip its contents and then they use the .isos or roms with the homebrew emulators, they fear that some users will not do that and then begin to download without paying. And the best way to avoid that is blocking the homebrew.

In theory they are still winning money but hey, look at a warez site, look at the top torrents downloads and presto! you will find
the pirated psp games on the top with thousands of leechers. They are loossing more money with this.

Harsh for some users (like me) I know but these are bussiness for $ony.

[Anonymous D]

but every device nowadays gets hacked for piracy, just some of us are more moral and will pay for games that are genuinley worth it, which is very few recently for the psp

[Gold Line]

they also make cash from nintendo most of my mates got a psp because they wanted to re-play all the great snes/nes games.

so theres dark-alex (+all other coders) who take months coding for the psp and sony makes all the cash from other peoples ward work.

and do you think hackers could beat sony? do you really think that? do you think sony forgot to block the gta lcs hack in 3.03? if you do your a dum ass sony wants homebrew on the psp and we all know it.

[Anonymous D]

knowing rockstar they put it in in the first place lol as has been suggested with the lumines exploit

[Gold Line]

and yes sony are getting riped off because of psp isos but there making more cash from homebrew than loseing it

[mexicansnake]

they also make cash from nintendo most of my mates got a psp because they wanted to re-play all the great snes/nes games.

so theres dark-alex (+all other coders) who take months coding for the psp and sony makes all the cash from other peoples ward work.

and do you think hackers could beat sony? do you really think that? do you think sony forgot to block the gta lcs hack in 3.03? if you do your a dum ass sony wants homebrew on the psp and we all know it.

One playing nintendo roms without owning the real cadridge is piracy.

Hackers and $ony are on the same side, the problem here are the crackers. But if they were crackers indeed they can beat them and make them stop all the projects for the psp cuz they are not longer "bussiness" for $ony. Trust me they are losseing lots of money everyday look at some warez charts.

[mexicansnake]

and yes sony are getting riped off because of psp isos but there making more cash from homebrew than loseing it

They are loseing more money. You dont have a minimal idea of what is this psp piracy... (no offence)

[Gold Line]

i still think if sony wanted to block us they would. how can hackers get past sony every time?

[VampDude]

Sony should encourage homebrew like they did with the PS2 giving away a YA-BASIC program with launch day PS2's on the bundled Demo disk!

[Skull One]

As a software developer and as an adult with many many years under my belt, I would like to address some questions, statements and assumptions made so far.

1) As long as both keys and the encryption system are in the same memory space, at the same time, the system can be cracked. It is simply a matter of time and effort. This rule has been around since the 1960s and will continue till the day the human race ceases to exist.

2) $ony can't radically change the PSP firmware without fully testing every game already released. The cost to do that would be more than the money they would make in possible increased sales due to no piracy.

3) $ony has to fighting piracy to avoid anyone saying in court "They allowed it to happen for so long...."

4) Piracy is not a victimless crime. No matter how you spin it, theft is theft. Develope software for public use for at least 15 years before you dare to argue that it isn't.

5) Hardware sales are usually, Big N being the exception, done at a loss. The PSP is an example of that. So increased sales of PSPs due to piracy is not helping their bottom line in any way, shape or form.

6) If $ony wanted to support home brew for the PSP they would. The reason they don't is because they wouldn't be able to keep the wholes in the firmware hidden. Not that it really matters due to statement #1.

7) The software industry as a whole sees money as the only solution to their problems. So as long as their are people that will legally buy software at inflated prices, they will continue to operate as is. The only software industry to flurish with a free based model is Linux. And the jury is still out on how successful it has been.

If you plan to respond please do me a favor. Use a logical and defensible argument and a spell checker.

[mexicansnake]

As a software developer and as an adult with many many years under my belt, I would like to address some questions, statements and assumptions made so far.

1) As long as both keys and the encryption system are in the same memory space, at the same time, the system can be cracked. It is simply a matter of time and effort. This rule has been around since the 1960s and will continue till the day the human race ceases to exist.

2) $ony can't radically change the PSP firmware without fully testing every game already released. The cost to do that would be more than the money they would make in possible increased sales due to no piracy.

3) $ony has to fighting piracy to avoid anyone saying in court "They allowed it to happen for so long...."

4) Piracy is not a victimless crime. No matter how you spin it, theft is theft. Develope software for public use for at least 15 years before you dare to argue that it isn't.

5) Hardware sales are usually, Big N being the exception, done at a loss. The PSP is an example of that. So increased sales of PSPs due to piracy is not helping their bottom line in any way, shape or form.

6) If $ony wanted to support home brew for the PSP they would. The reason they don't is because they wouldn't be able to keep the wholes in the firmware hidden. Not that it really matters due to statement #1.

7) The software industry as a whole sees money as the only solution to their problems. So as long as their are people that will legally buy software at inflated prices, they will continue to operate as is. The only software industry to flurish with a free based model is Linux. And the jury is still out on how successful it has been.

If you plan to respond please do me a favor. Use a logical and defensible argument and a spell checker.

Man, we all have an opinion about this. Well I know that my grammar is not perfect but at least I´m trying, you grammar is not perfect look at your post.

But if you want to have a more complex debate we could do it it in spanish or use translators (for you)
and you will discover that my arguments are highly logical and defensible, adult like arguments.

Sony must stop piracy in order to avoid industry demands, the game developers like: Blizzard, Namco, Bandai... They can demand Sony because Sony is not being responsable to elimintate the current piracy in the PSP system.

Business are business they have to be faster, better and of course cheaper, constant improvement, they can´t allow something big such the piracy.

If you plan to response to my statements or my grammar then we should do it in another place because here is not the perfect place to start talking about "OUR" mistakes, I hope you can be the enough "adult" to do so.

[Skull One]

I chose, to use the $ony spelling to keep in tone with the previous posts. 1960s is the proper way to write it since I was not showing possession. "Many many" is an accepted form of using a double word emphasis without using a comma. Please don't try to teach me English or proper grammar. I have been writing short stories, technical articles, trade paper articles and military briefing papers probably since before you were born. I also happen to be Dyslexic. Which means I have to be extra careful when I write.

And if you wish to use a different language, please feel free. If I don't know the language, I will have an associate translate it for me. I have a great many assets at my disposal.

Sony does not need to meet any demands from its developers. It is the other way around. Rockstar's Manhunt 2 is the perfect example. Sony won't publish it until they fix it. That fact can not be argued with. Sony has been accused of making a harder system to developer for than the XBox 360 yet developer are still cranking out projects. Sony has the reigns and the developers are begging to have permission to develop for the platform.

Developers care about two things:

1) How much a project costs to make versus how many units can be sold.
2) How much they have to pay to have the rights to publish the title on a given platform.

Interview any developer to see how right I am.

A business has to be right first above anything else. There are three things you can offer when doing any job. Time, money and quality. Pick any two. Third will get hammered. After 25 years as professional programmer that statement has held up every time. You don't have to be cheaper if you can defend your costs with a good product. It is called market demand. You don't have to be faster it your product has the best quality and meets the user demands. And trying to be faster is usually the best way to sink a project before it ever gets off the ground.

I never once questioned your grammar or your ability to make an argument. My statement was a challenge to keep the discussion in context to the original question and to avoid the "j00 l0z3r" form of debate that is so often prevalent on a public forum.

[splodger15]

Ahh this goes back to the time when it was an argument on piracy on the PS3.

The main way to stop piracy would be if you dropped prices on games. I mean if I had a PS3 I would pirate games on it simply because I am not paying £50 or so for a game that I may not even like.

I wouldn't mind paying for PS3 games if they were lets say £20-£30 I would have no objection in paying but £50 thats taking it to another level

[jamotto]

Sadly, Sony can't just lower the price. It would not do their profit margin any good.

[pibs]

Ohhh trust me they are a HUGE problem, just look at my city... The most part of the OE or other psp hacking stuff users buy pirated isos :(.

The homebrew is not the problem... the problem is the piracy.

wth people buy pirated isos for psp:confused:
that takes it to another criminal level of distribution.

and its not that sony is not trying its that they are busy with other things like the ps3 updates.

this one guy at gizmondo actually makes sum sense.
OldSchoolGadgetLover says:

You know, I have some advice for all the PSP owners running home brew on their devices.

Please just sell your damn unit to someone who doesn't mind buying games, and go out and get a relatively cheap GP2X (a Linux based emulator system) that lets you play about every ROM out there.

It won't try to force you to stop playing stolen ROMs by forcing OS updates on you that disable your pirate hacks. Heck, it encourages and explains how to perform the hacks.

The PSP is actually a pretty cool handheld gaming system, but only for those folks who do not mind buying new games. That's Sony's niche, I guess.

Use the right tool for the right job gentlemen.

[splodger15]

Who the **** buys pirated ISO's when you could get them for free. I have no obligation what so ever at buying PSP games as they seem to be at a good price but as soon as the price sky rockets then yeh most people will pirate just for the fact like everyone is doing it as they don't want to pay to high money

[-Xandu-]

why would sony want to block homeberw do you know how much cash there making from people like dark alex
people only buy a psp for homebrew.

Sony doesn't make money from PSPs... They make money from the games. Say, Sony makes a PSP with 400$~ and they sell it with 200$~. So that's why they fight homebrew/hacks...

[yaustar]

The main way to stop piracy would be if you dropped prices on games. I mean if I had a PS3 I would pirate games on it simply because I am not paying £50 or so for a game that I may not even like.
Then download the demo and/or read a review. If it is still too expensive, then get a second hand copy. Pirating a game to 'try before you buy' is a poor argument in this day and age.

During the SNES and Megadrive days, we had to pay up to £50-60 for a new game which is a lot more expensive (given inflation) then what you are paying now for a 360/PS3 game.

@Skull One: Finally, someone that is talking sense for this argument. :)

@-Xandu-: Finally, someone understands. :)

[-Xandu-]

Due to the Playstation 2 popularity here, gaming company Game Valley (http://www.gamevalley.net/gamevalley.html) proudly sells PS2 games at 8$ or less.
Of course they're pirated. And since every one buys pirated games are everywhere, original games have disappeared from the market completely!

And also, since BluRay isn't available yet nor the PS3 is cracked, they sell 90$ imported PS3 games rather than 60, that's how piracy begins.

@yaustar : Thanks ;).

[mexicansnake]

Who the **** buys pirated ISO's when you could get them for free. I have no obligation what so ever at buying PSP games as they seem to be at a good price but as soon as the price sky rockets then yeh most people will pirate just for the fact like everyone is doing it as they don't want to pay to high money

1- They are regular users.
2- They dont have a fast internet connection.
3- They dont know how to use that kind of stuff.
4- They think that its faster.
5- Its boring for them to wait ages to download something.
6- They dont speak english (they cant surf the warez sites the most parts are in english).
7- They are around 5-12 years old or people that dont know how to use computers.

Ok Ill give you an example, because it seems that you cant get it...

http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.mx/MLM-15633708-juegos-programas-temas-para-tu-celular-sony-ericsson-_JM

http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.mx/MLM-16004215-psp-downgrade-5000-juegos-tuneo-pasa-videos-psp-chip-_JM

http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.mx/MLM-16054384--umd-magic-juega-con-tu-psp-desde-tu-disco-duro--_JM

Do you need more examples?. Because THEY buy them.

This one is interesting but its just windows vista :p:
http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.mx/MLM-16065348-todo-en-uno-windows-xp-windows-vista-office-2007-antivirus-_JM


@ skull one read the last part of my previous post.
Dont even try to be perfect, we all commit mistakes (me for example)
and well... That part of dislexyc has nonsence. You dont have to tell us that
because we already know that and there are mods that can watch out for that, we dont need babysitters. And
you are not the only writer or programer around here...

And of course in cases of piracy the first affected are the game developers because that is their job
and Sony must face the piracy and attend his systems, the PSP on this case. Sony is a global
corp. They care about of his industry, and avoid any big problem such piracy on his products.

The business must be fast, if you are not fast someone else would win, How cant it be cheaper? in fact
the piracy exists because the inflated costs, in theory the final product would not face
piracy if it has quality and a rasonable price. The videogames are expensive... If you bring a high
cost to a product one sector of the population will not be able to buy that product, and then it will not become
a good business because just a small part will get it an remember that they also have the piracy in the other hand
they are lossing time, money, and clients! all in one bad movement.

If there is not demand the product will stop to be developed and then it will not exist in the current
market. If you speak about quality it must be rasonable for the price, quality is good but it
have to be adecuate at a rasonable price. A ferrari for example, it has a big quality but it is
also expensive, and thats the reason why the most part of the popuation is not able to buy one.

[mike_jmg]

mexicansnake

So true

But you're missing something, here in our country you know games are even more expensive (don't have any idea why) How come is that we have to get a PS3 for Us $1000 or if you get it cheaper is around Us $900 also the games are no under 90 bucks

I got my psp for Us $360, value pack and the two most lame umds you´ve ever seen (smart bomb, Tron movie) this is just stupidly inflated price, since this was when value pack was around Us $250, I have no idea who keeps that $110 extra

That's why a lot of people in here likes piracy, the ones that have money, they go to the US and buy the games at the price they sould be, but the ones that can´t afford that trip buy pirated games

I've seen a lot of people give up their psps because they have no games, they don't want to pay ridiculus sums of money, and they prefer to sell their sistems

and as you've said most regular users have no fast internet conexion or conexion at all, so how can they see a preview, a review, a demo, they go to some local pirate guy who sells them like 5 games for under 7 bucks (psp DVD)

So things against piracy are going nowhere in here until prices are right

[splodger15]

piracy exists because the inflated costs, in theory the final product would not face
piracy if it has quality and a rasonable price.

Well you tooks the words right from my mouth.


Then download the demo and/or read a review.

Just because a game has a rating of lets say 9.0 and I buy it and think its crap I would be pretty annoyed. Everyone has there own different tastes in games because a review says 9.0 you yourself would probaly rate it a 5.0.


.

During the SNES and Megadrive days, we had to pay up to £50-60 for a new game which is a lot more expensive (given inflation)

At that price I would pirate them with no care in the world

[mexicansnake]

mexicansnake

So true

But you're missing something, here in our country you know games are even more expensive (don't have any idea why) How come is that we have to get a PS3 for Us $1000 or if you get it cheaper is around Us $900 also the games are no under 90 bucks

I got my psp for Us $360, value pack and the two most lame umds you´ve ever seen (smart bomb, Tron movie) this is just stupidly inflated price, since this was when value pack was around Us $250, I have no idea who keeps that $110 extra

That's why a lot of people in here likes piracy, the ones that have money, they go to the US and buy the games at the price they sould be, but the ones that can´t afford that trip buy pirated games

I've seen a lot of people give up their psps because they have no games, they don't want to pay ridiculus sums of money, and they prefer to sell their sistems

and as you've said most regular users have no fast internet conexion or conexion at all, so how can they see a preview, a review, a demo, they go to some local pirate guy who sells them like 5 games for under 7 bucks (psp DVD)

So things against piracy are going nowhere in here until prices are right

Good points also... Here in our contry the videogames are more expensive than there and I can prove it. In the USA a psp has a price of around $180USD here we have it at $3300 mexican pesos aprox: $300 USD, here is always the same, the original games are luxury, well they dont see a demo, they just hear about one game and then buy it, buy cheap magazines, see the tv and then they buy the pirate game. and 7 bucks for a pirated game? no way here they pay $10 to $20 mexican pesos $1USD to $2USD
for 7 games aprox.

And the PS3 at liverpool or El palacio de Hierro, game planet, mercadolibre (Good stores in Mexico) coasts: $10 500 mexican pesos and the games $1000 mexican pesos. Expensive I know :p.

[mike_jmg]

10 a 20 varos, me estan timando (LOL)

for the ones who speak english

$10 to $20 mexican, I'm getting ripped off (LOL)

[pibs]

Just because a game has a rating of lets say 9.0 and I buy it and think its crap I would be pretty annoyed. Everyone has there own different tastes in games because a review says 9.0 you yourself would probaly rate it a 5.0.

Just rent the games dude. blockbuster has a great deal that if you like the game u rented u can buy it for $14 im not sure if its still goin on but thats how i bought some of mine.If people are going to be all about homebrew why don't they just get a gp2x?dax as much as i respect him, i still remember when he started off making dax iso loaders which was forgotten after his custom firmwares. sad to say but dax was a great contributer to the piracy scene thats why sony hates his guts.

[JKKDARK]

Video games companies don't care about Mexico, that's why original stuff in your country hasn't a good price. And then piracy is allowed.

[yaustar]

Just because a game has a rating of lets say 9.0 and I buy it and think its crap I would be pretty annoyed. Everyone has there own different tastes in games because a review says 9.0 you yourself would probaly rate it a 5.0.
So try the demo like I said in the text you quoted. A review will also give you the gist of what to expect in the game regardless of the score. Between the two, you should be able to get a solid enough judgment if the game is right for you.


At that price I would pirate them with no care in the world
By doing that, you have just taken money out of my pocket (in a very round about way) as a games developer. Theft is theft, its like stealing a car when you can't afford it.

[Russoxley187]

Now I gotta go find a copy of lumines...
Wal MArt here I come

[mexicansnake]

Video games companies don't care about Mexico, that's why original stuff in your country hasn't a good price. And then piracy is allowed.

@ JKKDARK:
I know why you are saying this.
I dont care about you, you are just like any other rock on my way, and you are not a problem for me.

In fact:

Nintendo has a big tax exemption selling videogames here in Mexico, and enforces users to avoid piracy. You should have some culture before posting a nonsense-comment. Investigate before speaking non-solid base arguments.

Microsoft has a considerable invertion here in Mexico
as many other companies like HP. Look at the news if you dont believe me.

Currently the companies are wasting millions of dollars here just because they cant handle the piracy, indeed they care about it, we represent the most valuable buying power in the whole latin-america, and you dont know how big is this place.

[JKKDARK]

Tell me mexicansnake, how many official games were manufactured on Mexico? None

[mexicansnake]

Tell me mexicansnake, how many official games were manufactured on Mexico? None

Haahhahhahahhaha such ignorant (whatever you are)
and how many in Germany?, hey. Its like saying: What doesnt have Germany?.

That was a foolish and childish post.

Many developers are mexican, some mexicans work at the ibm, microsoft... I know many of them.
Your comments are going offtopic so stay on topic.

Some mexicans also work on the Sony corp as artists.

[JKKDARK]

Haahhahhahahhaha such ignorant (whatever you are)
and how many in Germany?, hey. Its like saying: What doesnt have Germany?.

That was a foolish and childish post.

Many developers are mexican, some mexicans work at the ibm, microsoft... I know many of them.
Your comments are going offtopic so stay on topic.

Some mexicans also work on the Sony corp as artists.

How many on Germany? A lot, some examples:

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000EQC9OK.03.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

http://games.germanblogs.de/pub/germanblogs/games/3_ctc_cover.jpg

Now show me the ones manufactured on Mexico

[mexicansnake]

How many on Germany? A lot, some examples:

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000EQC9OK.03.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

http://games.germanblogs.de/pub/germanblogs/games/3_ctc_cover.jpg

Now show me the ones manufactured on Mexico

You are late.

but here faster than you a small taste, eat your words:

http://xbox360.guias-trucos-juegos.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/Viva-Pinata-Xbox-360.jpg
http://ps2.guias-trucos-juegos.com/wp-images/total-overdose.jpg

Both with mexican developers. Maybe not manufactured but done with some of our hands.

This is senceless...

Now get on topic. And dont waste your words.

[JKKDARK]

You are late.

but here faster than you a small taste eat your words:

http://xbox360.guias-trucos-juegos.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/Viva-Pinata-Xbox-360.jpg
http://ps2.guias-trucos-juegos.com/wp-images/total-overdose.jpg

Both with mexican developers. Maybe not manufactured but done with some of our hands.

This is senceless...

Now get on topic. And dont waste your words.

These covers are from games released on Europe.
Even if they are developed by mexicans, mongolians, europeans, etc, the price will be higher in your country.

[mexicansnake]

These covers are from games released on Europe.
Even if they are developed by mexicans, mongolians, europeans, etc, the price will be higher in your country.

@ JKKDARK
And your point is...
your posts are senceless, without solid bases, you have kid like arguments.

Another game made in Mexico:
http://www.gametunnel.com/games/index.php?PAGE=game_detail&AID=735
http://pc.gamezone.com/gamesell/p30373.htm

We are talking about if Sony is even trying.
Now get back on topic.

A true fact is that without Sony, we would not have the PSP and without the PSP we would not be here speaking. I hope Sony is making new firmwares to then use the nice features provided. Using the features via OE firmwares of course.

[JKKDARK]

@ JKKDARK
And your point is...

We are talking about if Sony is even trying.
Now get back on topic.

I said Video games companies don't care about Mexico, then you said i was wrong.
I did give you my answer, which is correct.

[VampDude]

Tell me mexicansnake, how many official games were manufactured on Mexico? None

Ultra Fernando Brothers (or whatever it's called) on the Sega Saturn was made in Mexico, it was said to be a very good Mario64/MarioKart64 clone I remember seeing it either in the Official Sega Saturn Magazine here in the UK back in 1998 or in Computer&VideoGames

[JKKDARK]

Ultra Fernando Brothers (or whatever it's called) on the Sega Saturn was made in Mexico, it was said to be a very good Mario64/MarioKart64 clone I remember seeing it either in the Official Sega Saturn Magazine here in the UK back in 1998 or in Computer&VideoGames

Very interesting, but the game is UNOFFICIAL. I don't see this game on gaming sites like IGN or GameSpot..

[VampDude]

Very interesting, but the game is UNOFFICIAL. I don't see this game on gaming sites like IGN or GameSpot..

Maybe so, but it was in an OFFICIAL magazine!

[mexicansnake]

Very interesting, but the game is UNOFFICIAL. I don't see this game on gaming sites like IGN or GameSpot..

Take this but translate it ignorant, also its OFFICIAL. Made, coded and everything else here.

http://www.videojuegosamazing.com/videoenmexico.htm

Once again try to search before posting.

Not enough?

http://www.videojuegosamazing.com/2002/snowb3/snowbrothers3.htm

Mexico is loaded with official videogames made and manufactured here, just do a google search in spanish.

More, this was shown in the mexican tv news:

http://www.toditonoticias.com/paginas/noticias/Tecnologia/129773.html

The developers are: Enrique Medina, Édgar Berriozábal y Víctor de la Cruz Serrano.
Publisher: Instituto Politecnico Nacional.

[JKKDARK]

Yeah I know about these small companies. But what about games made by big companies?
Will you see a Konami game for consoles manufactured on Mexico?

[mexicansnake]

Yeah I know about these small companies. But what about games made by big companies?
Will you see a Konami game for consoles manufactured on Mexico?

My small but ignorant friend: The mexican Instituto Politecnico Nacional is a huge and famous institute in Mexico here is more than konami is...

Presidencial info about the game:

http://fox.presidencia.gob.mx/buenasnoticias/?contenido=22526&pagina=148

Go sleep now. In fact these mexican industries are getting bigger. At least we have these small industries, thats something that
Germany dowsnt have.

[JKKDARK]

Please read my second post on this thread.
You're mad because official games don't have a good price on your country. I'm telling you the reason: Games by big companies are not manufactured on Mexico, you have to import them from North America, Europe or Asia. Then the price will be higher.

just a note: I reported one of your posts because you called me "Stupid retarded", which is not allowed on this forum.

[Shadowblind]

Oh sure, Sony's trying....to make people buy a piece of sh*t.

Name 1 good game other then Resistance for the PS3 that isn't also on the 360.

[mexicansnake]

Oh sure, Sony's trying....to make people buy a piece of sh*t.

Name 1 good game other then Resistance for the PS3 that isn't also on the 360.

My little brother has a ps3 and he has resistance(I like it) but the other games are few and bad...

[yaustar]

What JKKDARK is trying to say is that Mexico is not consider a major territory when it comes down to localisation of games which force you to buy your games elsewhere, sometimes at a higher price.

[mexicansnake]

What JKKDARK is trying to say is that Mexico is not consider a major territory when it comes down to localisation of games which force you to buy your games elsewhere, sometimes at a higher price.


JKKDARK was mixing nonsence ideas. This explanation is better.

[punkonjunk]

So try the demo like I said in the text you quoted. A review will also give you the gist of what to expect in the game regardless of the score. Between the two, you should be able to get a solid enough judgment if the game is right for you.


By doing that, you have just taken money out of my pocket (in a very round about way) as a games developer. Theft is theft, its like stealing a car when you can't afford it.

OK dude, I understand the anti-piracy campaign completely, but I can't support it.

If all cars costed 1,000,000 dollars, but they were also a necessity, I would be forced to try and steal one. Buying one is just too far outside of my budget in all practicality now when I could get one for like 1,000 dollars. They are cheap and come with many nice things.

Now I have an idea for game design. Torrenting large files takes a long time. And games wouldn't be that hard to sell cheaper with a bit of reworking how everything works, I'm sure.
So lets consider this.
I can't afford a PSP, so I got one used. Cheap and busted, and put custom firmware on it after fixing it. If they were 129 dollars new, maybe I could get one. but 180 used? **** that.
Now, the games are pretty small, but about the max of how long I'd like to wait on my connection, albeit crappy.
If the games were 40 gigs each, I would not be pirating PSP games, under any circumstance. I'd just rather buy one. I know that's impractical to say because you can't just pack in blank data to increase the size - Someone will make a trimmer of some sort.
They need to truly be big. So include more extras, and pay attention to graphics. I know this is totally impractical for a handheld, which brings me back to the price point.

Big cheap games - I would buy those. A 20 dollar PSP game? When it takes a month to download? in a heartbeat.

I bet PS3 piracy will be rediculously slow-going. Homebrew yes, I support that. That's sweet. Piracy I don't support per se, but honestly who can blame us.
It's like stealing an apple in the market. I know this isn't a necessity, but it's a way of life. I'm used to always having two handhelds on me. It used to be a gameboy and stupid handheld crap. Now it's PSP and DS.

I'm very tired so I'd understand if I made some mistakes, let me know if I'm totally unclear in what i'm saying.



@mexicansnake - You are pretty much the coolest mexican ever. I would not have been able to hold myself back at all if someone said something as ignorant as "Game companies don't care about mexico"

Man, that's ridiculous.

[JKKDARK]

I would not have been able to hold myself back at all if someone said something as ignorant as "Game companies don't care about mexico"

Man, that's ridiculous.

Give me a perfect reason why big games (Konami, EA, Sega, Activison, etc) are not being manufactured on Mexico.

[yaustar]

It's like stealing an apple in the market. I know this isn't a necessity, but it's a way of life.
You don't have to play games to survive, but you do have to eat. THAT's the difference.

[punkonjunk]

I knew people would get hooked up on trivialties. You don't even have to steal the apple to survive, there are much less pleasant things to eat.

But yet one will steal something they desire strongly enough if it is too far out of the logical limit for them, economically.

Can you please not nitpick my philosophy on this, and rather address the concept I created for stopping new-age piracy, or stemming alot of it?

[yaustar]

So you are saying that piracy is convenient due to sizes? Games are 'expensive' because it costs money for hiring developers for the game as well as distribution, marketing and advertising. By adding more content, you need more developers and/or more time to create it therefore driving the price up even more.

Edit: Theft is theft. It is illegal, end of story. If you can't afford it, then you shouldn't have it. Stealing out of desire is not forgivable, stealing out of necessity is.

Edit2: Look at research on how much a games costs and where the money goes. By self distribution or online distribution, you can cut a lot of money from the price of the game to something more reasonable. However, self distribution is costly in itself and the market/audience isn't yet right for online distribution to get the sales. Even when games are cheap, they will STILL be pirated just because they can still get it for free.

Take a look at how Introversion deals with piracy:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=19283

[punkonjunk]

Did I ever say it wasn't theft? Did I argue with that?
Please climb down from your high horse and read what I'm saying. I'm explaining how I Justify it, and how that justification could be defeated by inconvenience.

For the love of god, stop arguing protection and the fact that piracy is wrong. I agree, and I don't care. That wasn't even my point.

I know they would still be pirated by some if they were cheap, but not by me, and not by alot of pirates I know. If it was only 20 bucks to get a game, and it took a week to download, I would buy the bastard.

I can say that doing this would probobly remove at least 50% of piracy in the USA, maybe more.

But you know, argue that stopping it doesn't matter because piracy is wrong, and we should all just stop on morals.
Pfffft.

[Tesseract]

I rather thought Introversion's tactic was the best I'd seen so far. It does exactly what punk was talking about and making it more inconvenient to pirate than it does to purchase.

For those who haven't read the article, they flooded the P2P services with demo versions of Darwinia and DEFCON labelled as full cracked versions. The full games are available for purchase at Games stores or for download at their website.

Again, though, I think that 'reasonable price' tends to be the biggest driver. I will gladly pay $20 for Impossible Mission, but $50? Come on... I played this game 20 years ago on my C64. Hell, I could set the damn thing up and play it right now for less trouble.

I think one thing that would be nifty is if SONY would support UMD Backup in one form or another with official firmware. It wouldn't be that far of a cry from downloading PSX games from the PSNetwork, and would address all the valid reasons that folks generally tend to make legal backups: UMD disc/drive wear and tear, Battery conservation, Convenience.... as well as pave the way for full-game distribution via the PSNetwork.

This combined with an open platform for Homebrew would see a quick cool-down in the 'Firmware War' that folks are so keen on. People who want to pirate are going to find a way to do so. There will be very few ways around this.... But by 'legalising' the main reasons for most of us to be running the custom firmware, SONY could actually regain a lot of control over something they currently are just playing catch-up with.

[yaustar]

Did I ever say it wasn't theft? Did I argue with that?
Please climb down from your high horse and read what I'm saying. I'm explaining how I Justify it, and how that justification could be defeated by inconvenience.

For the love of god, stop arguing protection and the fact that piracy is wrong. I agree, and I don't care. That wasn't even my point.

I know they would still be pirated by some if they were cheap, but not by me, and not by alot of pirates I know. If it was only 20 bucks to get a game, and it took a week to download, I would buy the bastard.

I can say that doing this would probobly remove at least 50% of piracy in the USA, maybe more.

But you know, argue that stopping it doesn't matter because piracy is wrong, and we should all just stop on morals.
Pfffft.
TBH, I can't see the point you are trying to put across originally apart from:

They need to truly be big. So include more extras, and pay attention to graphics. I know this is totally impractical for a handheld, which brings me back to the price point.

Big cheap games - I would buy those. A 20 dollar PSP game? When it takes a month to download? in a heartbeat.
Where I made the replies to:

So you are saying that piracy is convenient due to sizes? Games are 'expensive' because it costs money for hiring developers for the game as well as distribution, marketing and advertising. By adding more content, you need more developers and/or more time to create it therefore driving the price up even more.

Look at research on how much a games costs and where the money goes. By self distribution or online distribution, you can cut a lot of money from the price of the game to something more reasonable. However, self distribution is costly in itself and the market/audience isn't yet right for online distribution to get the sales.
Related the inconvenience issue, did you read the link I posted about Introversion's prevention method because it sounded like you missed it completely.

Take a look at how Introversion deals with piracy:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=19283

The other lone point was made because it sounded like you were justifying piracy because you practise it/support it. Every thing else (as shown above) is related to your justification from convenience and price.

Edit: Theft is theft. It is illegal, end of story. If you can't afford it, then you shouldn't have it. Stealing out of desire is not forgivable, stealing out of necessity is.

The reason why I am on my 'high horse' is because as a games developer, that is (in an abstract way) money out of my salary at the end of the day.

There is no real way to stop it or a proven method to reduce it. Lowering the price cannot be done due to the points I made above. The only 'real' method there is at the moment is to enforce the law.

Edit: As a side note, there is one case I can remember (but can't find again) where a developer did a test on piracy. He made a game that was free but needed (free) registration to unlock the game. The game was still cracked and pirated.

[Oops]

Sorry by advance for my bad non-native English but I also have some things to point out, especially about ethics.

When condemning piracy it is usually implied that victims are honest and innocent.

Who wants to:

- Sell a high price the same thing several times at the same person (ports of oldies) ?

- Sell updates as if they were something completely new (NFSxx for example) ?

- Force people to pay again in order to keep the right to use software they already own (locked PS1 emu) ?

- Offer products with generally a shorter lifetime and a degraded quality of content,except the eye-candy but for the same price (look at the whole videogames history) ?

- Want to make bigger and bigger profits against the customers and the employees interest ?

I'm not defending piracy but I wanted to point out that this matter is not all black or white and that in the customer side there is some reasons to feel abused.

[yaustar]

Sorry by advance for my bad non-native English but I also have some things to point out, especially about ethics.

When condemning piracy it is usually implied that victims are honest and innocent.

Who wants to:

- Sell a high price the same thing several times at the same person (ports of oldies) ?

- Sell updates as if they were something completely new (NFSxx for example) ?

- Force people to pay again in order to keep the right to use software they already own (locked PS1 emu) ?

- Offer products with generally a shorter lifetime and a degraded quality of content,except the eye-candy but for the same price (look at the whole videogames history) ?

- Want to make bigger and bigger profits against the customers and the employees interest ?

I'm not defending piracy but I wanted to point out that this matter is not all black or white and that in the customer side there is some reasons to feel abused.
If you don't like it, don't play it and don't buy it. Why bother pirating a game that you see in this way?

[Oops]

Even if you're dodging the point, you're perfectly right about the conclusion. I regret it a lot because I used to buy many games, because I was and still am a videogames fan and also to support the guys who rocked my game consoles and PCs.

Nowadays except a few ones, they're told what to code by ignorant-greedy-pragmatic goldenboys, which I believe make a lot more harm to the videogames (thus to gamers and to developpers) than "pirates".

Anyway, about Sony's strategy I remember they admitted that they left the PS1 quite open to piracy in order to conquer the console market. This corporation is so big that its matter is not making some benefits now out of the PSP but just fighting Nintendo to make huge benefits when they'll dominate the market. I admit this seems a bit weird as a strategy but every big corp wants to be another Microsoft. What I don't understand is how they'll achieve this with such methods and such a poor software (globally) ...

[yaustar]

Nowadays except a few ones, they're told what to code by ignorant-greedy-pragmatic goldenboys, which I believe make a lot more harm to the videogames (thus to gamers and to developpers) than "pirates".
I don't have to point out that games are now a business. Great, unique games such as Ico, Okami, Exit, Alien Hominid, etc don't usually sell that well to mass market.

Licensed, sequel based games do because that is what the mass market wants hence why they do a lot of them. Publishers don't take risks on new IP that cannot be proven to sell.

What you should see now is a shift to online distribution of smaller, cheaper ( to purchase and development ) games from PSN, XBLA and Wiiware. This in turn will allow developers and publishers to make more risks to create unique games.

In very general terms, they just care what sells. Whether it plays great or not is a side issue.