Heavenly Sword not possible on DVD

[Shrygue]

via Computer and Video Games (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=170950)


The benefits of the higher storage capacity of Sony's Blu-Ray discs have once again been pulled into the spotlight as Heavenly Sword chief development 'Ninja', Nina Kristensen, tells CVG that the game would simply not be possible on DVD.

"We have jam-packed the Blu-Ray disc absolutely full," declared Kristensen, as she confirmed rumours that the audio alone was allocated 10GB of space on the 25GB Blu-Ray discs.

That's more than an entire dual-layer DVD game, which holds a total of 8.5GB.

We wondered if this meant compression methods usually used to squeeze content onto normal DVDs had not been used, but Kristensen insisted otherwise: "We used compression all over the place. We had to be really judicious at the end with what was going on the disc and what wasn't.

"I think it's one of those things - if you give us the space we're going to fill it with stuff. It means the audio can be of a higher quality and stuff like that. It all adds to the quality of the package," she told CVG.

[DimensionT]

Multi-disk games anyone?

[F9zDark]

Multi-disk games anyone?

This has been said alot in response to Blu-Ray, and quite frankly, I don't see it happening a lot with these next-gen titles (well perhaps for the 360, still using DVDs...)

Look back in history, when we had CDs only for games. There were plenty of multi-disc games. Then the next generation came around and we were using DVDs for games. Why use multiple CDs when one DVD sufficed?

Really, there is no reason to regress. For the 360, which has no other option yet (although I will not be surprised if Microsoft makes HD-DVD necessary for Halo 3...), then yeah this is the way to go.

But why would developers making games for the PS3 go multi-DVD when they can use 1 Blu-Ray?

You can fit nearly 6 DVD games on 1 Dual-layered Blu-Ray.

[DimensionT]

This has been said alot in response to Blu-Ray, and quite frankly, I don't see it happening a lot with these next-gen titles (well perhaps for the 360, still using DVDs...)

Look back in history, when we had CDs only for games. There were plenty of multi-disc games. Then the next generation came around and we were using DVDs for games. Why use multiple CDs when one DVD sufficed?

Really, there is no reason to regress. For the 360, which has no other option yet (although I will not be surprised if Microsoft makes HD-DVD necessary for Halo 3...), then yeah this is the way to go.

But why would developers making games for the PS3 go multi-DVD when they can use 1 Blu-Ray?

You can fit nearly 6 DVD games on 1 Dual-layered Blu-Ray.

Yeah, I know doing this for the PS3 would be stupid.

I just said what I did in responce to the guy in the main post saying "this game wouldn't be possible on DVD". The only way it would be impossible would be if the game constantly loads a DL-DVD disk worth of data, which isn't feasable.

Saying that it can't be done on DVD is a lie. The "10GB of sounds" or whatever could just be stretched out over numerous disks. Even if it takes 7 DVDs (blue-rays hold 60GB and DL-DVDs around 8GB right?), it would stil be completely doable.

[pibs]

Fanboys are going to jump all over this one, but we find it interesting that Ninja Theory is so quick to brag about how they filled the disc when early reports claim the game takes under 10 hours to complete.

TheFeed believes that Blu-Ray should be used to extend gameplay and give gamers more than 5.1+ surround sound that takes up a third of the space. A lot of sound means what? A lot of cutscenes! Hopefully the game will be fun and have some replay value.

At least it will sound great!

I read this over at G4.com makes a lot of sense. I want a game to play, if it is going to be a bunch of clips with little gameplay, I would rather save my money and watch the clips on the gameplay hd channel.

[rokobungi]

yes yes funny that pc games that some people play at resolutions of GREATER THAN 1080P (like say... bioshock on the pc side) can scale so well but when it's a console you need 7X the space

ah and looking at my bioshock install directory it's only taking up 5.5 gigs they were at least 2.5 gigs from filling the disk if they were seriously constrained they would be pushing that upper limit.

btw yes it is the steam version they don't feel the need to pad everything to make it look bigger.. if they did they could pack in some extra 00's anywhere they wished. (you can pack terrabytes of 00's in a tiny 5-6 k compressed file)

now... how big is that sword in heavenly sword again???? is that some sort of complex?

[jdnation]

PS3 owners get more bang for their buck. Already the fiasco with PGR4 has shown that developers are designing content with the DVD limitations in mind therefore they cut out certain ideas before going to development that would've been in there if they had the storage space. PS3 owners get more for their money. But 360 owners will settle for less. Well... so long as you enjoy what you have it it doesn't matter that much. In any case I highly doubt BioShock will carry the high quality surround audio that Heavenly Sword provides, nor does it contain multi-languages. ID has already stated that their high res textures will require multi-disc for 360 and PCs whereas only one blu-ray disc for PS3. In due time more games will require a HDD to play on 360.

[pibs]

PS3 owners get more bang for their buck. Already the fiasco with PGR4 has shown that developers are designing content with the DVD limitations in mind therefore they cut out certain ideas before going to development that would've been in there if they had the storage space. PS3 owners get more for their money. But 360 owners will settle for less. Well... so long as you enjoy what you have it it doesn't matter that much. In any case I highly doubt BioShock will carry the high quality surround audio that Heavenly Sword provides, nor does it contain multi-languages. ID has already stated that their high res textures will require multi-disc for 360 and PCs whereas only one blu-ray disc for PS3. In due time more games will require a HDD to play on 360.
Large games may simply be the result of poorly optimized programming, not an indication that they couldn't be smaller if they had to be, and still deliver the same experience.

As programmers get better at developing games, they figure out how to do more with less resources. Compression routines improve over time, and multimedia formats become smaller (such as the development of the mp3 and DivX formats).

source:http://www.gamesfirst.com/index.php?id=1132

[DimensionT]

PS3 owners get more bang for their buck. Already the fiasco with PGR4 has shown that developers are designing content with the DVD limitations in mind therefore they cut out certain ideas before going to development that would've been in there if they had the storage space. PS3 owners get more for their money. But 360 owners will settle for less. Well... so long as you enjoy what you have it it doesn't matter that much. In any case I highly doubt BioShock will carry the high quality surround audio that Heavenly Sword provides, nor does it contain multi-languages. ID has already stated that their high res textures will require multi-disc for 360 and PCs whereas only one blu-ray disc for PS3. In due time more games will require a HDD to play on 360.

How exatly are PS3 gamers getting more for their buck? By getting 10GB more of shows that play on the TVs in The Darkness? They could've easily spread that useless 10GB over multiple disks, and it would've cost the same to buy. It's cheaper to print 2/3 DL-DVDs then one blue-ray as well.

Multi disk games mean nothing more then having to swap the game at some point.

"OMG! I have to get up and put another disk in the tray? That's lame!"

"Should've gone with blue-ray"

:rofl:

[Cokemusic]

I hate disc swaping personaly , increases no. scratches and when I'm feeling lazy it's a pain.

Plus Blu Ray sounds cooler , if that isn't a good enough reason I dunno what is.

[rokobungi]

yeah I know 10 gigs of sound data must make it sound 10X better that 1 gig of sound data.......

just like how xbox had true 5.1 sound in games that made all the games better than the ps2 ones... right?

[DimensionT]

Plus Blu Ray sounds cooler , if that isn't a good enough reason I dunno what is.

LMAO!!! Thanks for pointing that out to me.

Runs off to buy a PS3


yeah I know 10 gigs of sound data must make it sound 10X better that 1 gig of sound data.......

just like how xbox had true 5.1 sound in games that made all the games better than the ps2 ones... right?

Yup... 5.1 makes your video games sound better then the things you hear in real life.

They say 10GB of sound, but they don't anything about what those 10GB sound like. For all we know, they could be 10GB of Atari style beeps and boops... That aren't even used in they game. Just so they can say "Hey! The sounds on our disk take up more space then the biggest 360 game!".

[lmtlmt]

How exatly are PS3 gamers getting more for their buck? By getting 10GB more of shows that play on the TVs in The Darkness? They could've easily spread that useless 10GB over multiple disks, and it would've cost the same to buy. It's cheaper to print 2/3 DL-DVDs then one blue-ray as well.

Multi disk games mean nothing more then having to swap the game at some point.

"OMG! I have to get up and put another disk in the tray? That's lame!"

"Should've gone with blue-ray"

:rofl:

hahaha Ps3's do not have disc trays, and blu-ray is not spelt with an 'e' plus wouldnt you rather not have to swap a disc than swap one?

if you would rather get up and swap a disc apposed to not having to swap a disc and load it all up again then you are an idiot.
:thumbup: :thumbup:

[DimensionT]

Sorry, but I'm not a fat, lazy a-hole. Having to get up for 10 seconds to swap a disk means nothing to me.

You missed my point...

The only swapping that needs to be done, would be on the 360 (hence disk tray). That guy was implying that the PS3 gives more bang for it's buck over the 360, for stupid reasons. There's nothing the PS3 can do content wise that the 360 can't (all be it with more then one disk).

As for "blu-ray"... Who really gives a crap?

[F9zDark]

Yeah, I know doing this for the PS3 would be stupid.

I just said what I did in responce to the guy in the main post saying "this game wouldn't be possible on DVD". The only way it would be impossible would be if the game constantly loads a DL-DVD disk worth of data, which isn't feasable.

Saying that it can't be done on DVD is a lie. The "10GB of sounds" or whatever could just be stretched out over numerous disks. Even if it takes 7 DVDs (blue-rays hold 60GB and DL-DVDs around 8GB right?), it would stil be completely doable.

It could be done, but at what cost? Developers would have to pour over each and every level determine all the sounds, dialogue, music, etc and then hand copy them all to the disc. And do this with every disc.

Yeah its doable, but heaven forbid the devs mess up, putting one line of dialogue on disc 2 when it belongs on disc 3.

Like I said, it can be done, and developers have had little problems making multi-disc games in the past. But then again, we don't know exactly what went into making that multi-disc game. Maybe they had a program which automatically scanned all the data and piled it into disc ISOs based on how the story of the game will play out. Maybe they had to hand select everything.

But doable or not, its just plain easier to release a game on a single disc.


yes yes funny that pc games that some people play at resolutions of GREATER THAN 1080P (like say... bioshock on the pc side) can scale so well but when it's a console you need 7X the space

ah and looking at my bioshock install directory it's only taking up 5.5 gigs they were at least 2.5 gigs from filling the disk if they were seriously constrained they would be pushing that upper limit.

btw yes it is the steam version they don't feel the need to pad everything to make it look bigger.. if they did they could pack in some extra 00's anywhere they wished. (you can pack terrabytes of 00's in a tiny 5-6 k compressed file)

now... how big is that sword in heavenly sword again???? is that some sort of complex?

The thing is, PC games are vastly different. For instance, ultra compressing the data for INSTALLATION is alot easier and more efficient than ultra compressing data for READING (as in console games).

The more time spent having to decompress the data and write it to memory, the more loading time is necessary. PCs this isn't a problem, since once that data is decompressed, its written DECOMPRESSED to the hard-drive.

The whole PC argument from either side (for Blu-ray or against Blu-Ray) doesn't really hold up because PCs CAN afford 99.9% compression on all files to make it fit on a DVD, because its going to be installed to hard-drive anyway.

Consoles can make use of compression where necessary, and have done so in the past. But the compression isn't nearly as good as those put into use on PC games when developers are really aiming for a single disc game.

[F9zDark]

They say 10GB of sound, but they don't anything about what those 10GB sound like. For all we know, they could be 10GB of Atari style beeps and boops... That aren't even used in they game. Just so they can say "Hey! The sounds on our disk take up more space then the biggest 360 game!".

I'd like to believe with Andy Serkis (voiced and did motion capture for Gollum) and Weta (did special effects for LOTR) working on Heavenly Sword that the 10gbs of sound wouldn't be Atari beeps. :p

[DimensionT]

I'd like to believe with Andy Serkis (voiced and did motion capture for Gollum) and Weta (did special effects for LOTR) working on Heavenly Sword that the 10gbs of sound wouldn't be Atari beeps. :p

You never know... ;)

[NotThat1337]

I didn't really mind swapping for the Final Fantasy's. I don't think it's that big a deal, but does leave a lot more room for stuff like 10gb's of sound if developed on bluray!

[rokobungi]

really though it's only 900 MB of sound data per language if you want to look at it that way.. they could do this on dvd just without all the language options. besides even though the games are region free doesn't mean sony likes people to import or that they will do a worldwide simul release on the game .. does it? remember that lik sang thing?



and some xbox360 games DO decompress to the hard drive (along with just raw copying the data to the hd) to speed things up


again I have the steam version.... EVERYTHING is ALREADY on the hard drive... and it's still only 5.5 gigs if it's so massively compressed that it would stress the processor for even a second I'm sure they would decompress the more used textures a bit

if bioshock had 11 language options and lossless compression I bet it would take a lot more than 10 gigs of data

and don't all the HD(edit:that means High Definition so the wii isn't included) next gen systems have HDD's anyways..(that's the worst thing ms did is make the HDD 'optional' when you really do need it for some of the functions.)

[F9zDark]

As far as I know, the Wii does not have an HDD and the 360 Core does not either.

I really don't understand why MS shafted Core owners. Some people say they don't exist, but really, whats the point to the Core at all? No HDD, which is apparently needed for BC.

And the HDD found in the Premium is paltry as hell. Last time I ever used a 20gb HDD was 6 years ago.

[Shadowblind]

No, DVD wouldn't be suitable. 2 DVDs are, but one DVD no.

Ya know, 1 DVD for all the stuff that matters, then the other DVD for, well, whatever they put on it?

Yeah, Blu Ray doesnt make you put out effort.

P.S. You probably wouldnt like brain age for the DS. Too much effort.