The OS Discussion Thread.

[Triv1um]

Ive made this, to keep the discussions about the best OS out of other peoples threads, so you can keep it all in this one.

Discuss all things to do with Operation Systems.

So, the big question.

Linux or Windows or even OSX?

Whats your views? Advantages? Disadvantages? How compatiable is WINE now? Is it worth the hassle of a dual boot?

---

I personally think is great with a dual boot, but I still use Windows for other things. Ubuntu is my chosen linux distro, and im dual booting with Vista. (bah!!!)

I am not a up-to-date user of WINE, so im not sure on the compatabilty of it. I am using Photoshop 7 with it, but ive heard CS2/3 might work now?

Anyway, discuss. :D

[acn010]

im a CS2 an3 user so i stick with windows... plus i use other programs

[JKKDARK]

PSO can't run on Wine so in other words, Linux sucks and Windows owns.

(and I just named only one game!)

[Triv1um]

Well why not dual boot JKK?

What else do you have against linux?

[acn010]

im not against any os but im used to windows

[Shrygue]

I have Windows XP on a 300GB drive, Kubuntu Linux on a 500GB one with secure LVM partitions (is it LVM?). So I can pick and choose which drive to boot from when I turn on my computer.

[NoQuarter]

Appropriate thread,thank you.

I started using Linux/GNU because of my constant windows probs and it's free.

I currently dualboot mac OSX and ubuntu on one lappy and on the other I have slackware(it has lower specs than my
macbook).
Honestly I'm kind worried apple is gonna become the next microsoft though.Even if they've been around a long time,that itunes and DRM crap sux.

acn010:
Ubuntu is really easy to use and has GREAT community forums!

[the_eternal_dark]

Shrygue, Logical Volue Manager. It's what allows the Linux kernel to manage the various types of volumes and their respected filesystems within a particular system.

[Shrygue]

Okay, that's good. I just wonder how one would change the password after setting it.

Here's something I've been trying to do for a while now and can't seem to make it go right. My current installation of Kubuntu 7.10 uses kernel 2.6.22-14 and I wanted to add version 2.6.7 or 2.6.8.1 and I keep getting compilation errors. I have looked at tutorials on how to make a Debian package for them and I still keep failing, particually on the part where you need to setup the .config file. Just wanted to do it for a test drive, see what it's like and maybe make ndiswrapper 1.52 install as I'm on 1.43. No problem with the current version of the Windows wifi driver module but I'd still like to upgrade it anyway.

[the_eternal_dark]

Okay, that's good. I just wonder how one would change the password after setting it.

Here's something I've been trying to do for a while now and can't seem to make it go right. My current installation of Kubuntu 7.10 uses kernel 2.6.22-14 and I wanted to add version 2.6.7 or 2.6.8.1 and I keep getting compilation errors. I have looked at tutorials on how to make a Debian package for them and I still keep failing, particually on the part where you need to setup the .config file. Just wanted to do it for a test drive, see what it's like and maybe make ndiswrapper 1.52 install as I'm on 1.43. No problem with the current version of the Windows wifi driver module but I'd still like to upgrade it anyway.

Why are you wanting to use an older kernel? 1.52 of ndiswrapper should work on kubuntu, no problem.

[Shrygue]

Attempt to place ndiswrapper 1.52 on it = errors, don't know why.

What, 2.6.7 / 2.6.8.1 are old ones? Then please tell me, what is the very latest Linux kernel as I'm confused which is it?

[the_eternal_dark]

I got into using Linux mainly for hosting game servers, particularly CS Source and UT2k4. I started to experience slowdowns and random BSODs and figured that I would switch over my main desktop to Ubuntu 6.10. I've since updated to 7.10 and currently await 8.10 to release. I have since been hosting and playing games completely within Ubuntu with no problems. CoD4 and ET:QW are currently my favorite games to play. I have had NO problems in using Linux (any variant) to do what I have done on Windows. Linux has performed better than Windows in almost every task I have thrown at it. The only problem I had was learning how to build the CS dedicated server.


Attempt to place ndiswrapper 1.52 on it = errors, don't know why.

What, 2.6.7 / 2.6.8.1 are old ones? Then please tell me, what is the very latest Linux kernel as I'm confused which is it?

I believe 2.6.25 or so. What errors do you recieve in compiling?

[Shrygue]

Uh, hmm, let's see.... I think it's to do with reference info missing from somewhere. Like "no such -blank- on line whatever so or so. I can't say exactly what it is if I'm online. Also I'm still pretty new to Linux anyway.

Speaking if which, my reason for taking on Linux was simply to try something new, see if it appealed to me. I've used WIndows XP for quite a while but to be honest, I think I've been with Windows 3.1 a bit more than XP. Yes, I have some problems here and there in Linux OS but I'll eventually work them out. Kubuntu is ace, be looking forward to the next release when it arrives.

[the_eternal_dark]

Uh, hmm, let's see.... I think it's to do with reference info missing from somewhere. Like "no such -blank- on line whatever so or so. I can't say exactly what it is if I'm online. Also I'm still pretty new to Linux anyway.

Doesn't sound like a missing dependency or anything of that nature. If you get the chance, let me know if you find out the error.

[quzar]

My 2c:

I've tried using various *nixes before and simply don't find them as useful. Most of the time the issues that arise are not those of application software, as I don't have many special needs on that front, but of drivers for specialty hardware, which is often extremely lacking.

I've never had severe problems with windows with the exception of when my parents upgraded from 3.1 to 95 back in the day, which I totally didn't like. Many people say things like "you have to reset windows once a week or it'll become unusable". Bull. My desktop's uptime is measured in months, and the only time I do end up turning it off is generally either when installing major pieces of software that require rebooting (video drivers, windows updates, etc) or when physically moving the machine.

As for the other major issue commonly cited for 'windows sucking', security, I've had issues with virii/hacking maybe twice in the past 6 years. 99% of keeping safe is user action and not any sort of protection software.

The last bit would be OSX. Great system, but minimally configurable. If you don't like Windows there are oodles of third party things (and first party ones) that let you modify almost every aspect of the common use of the system. OSX however, if you don't like it, tough. The key to it of course is that the system is designed in such a way that many people do like it, and kudos to them.

Something I'd reccomend if you are looking to switch OSs and have no need to use any specific program (that is to say for instance, you'd be fine using gimp as opposed to PS, or whatever) is SkyOS (http://www.skyos.org/). Completely ground-up, and uses a digital distribution center for programs. Basically what this means is once set up, one of the options is to go to a download center, managed by the creators, and have easy access to pretty much all the software aviailible for it. In the same place, you can place bounties for people to port open source software, or contribute to funds to do so. Great system.

*All of the above refers solely to Windows XP when discussing Windows, as many of the statements are simply not true of previous versions.

[beetroot bertie]

I can't honestly say which is best as I've not touched enough OSs to really understand or know in any depth, but since my College days I've been using Apple Macs on a daily basis and I like the OS very much. For somebody like me who's not too technical and just wants a stable OS for me to do stuff on, then it does the job very well in my opinion and I can't say the same for my experience with Windows (most of which is pre-XP).

I wish it (OSX) was better supported by 3rd parties in some areas and it lacks the wealth of software that other platforms have but you can usually find something to do the job that you need it for. Some more configuration might be nice too as mentioned already by Quzar.

I think that really all you need from an OS is something stable and easy to use, as the rest of the functionality really comes from the apps themselves. The OS should really just allow you to use everything trouble free. Maybe one day I'll try other OSs (not Windows though) but for the time being ignorance is bliss I'll stick with what I know and I think Apple are very good with their OSs.

I do hope that their increased popularity doesn't turn them into another MS but time will tell.

[Triv1um]

I think it will. Apples are becoming very very popular, and they will see there huge gap in the market as they get even more popular.

They will become like MS, I've been told by some avid Mac users that its already going that way.

[ninja9393]

I love Linux, but my only problem is after a day of working with ndiswrapper, i coulden't get my USB wifi device working on there so imm using windows till i get it working or i buy a new card

[Eviltaco64]

Im downloading uBuntu 8.04 x64 right now.
It's 95% complete!

Im going to dualboot it with XP.

EDIT: I completely agree with what Quzar said above ^.

[Triv1um]

Im downloading uBuntu 8.04 x64 right now.
It's 95% complete!

Im going to dualboot it with XP.

EDIT: I completely agree with what Quzar said above ^.

I was going to download that beta.

Tell me whats its like when you have it up and running. :D

[Eviltaco64]

I was going to download that beta.

Tell me whats its like when you have it up and running. :D

I'll do that!

btw, I see that you're having wonderboy nostalgia...im used to seeing the live action michael angelo avatar


Edit: Bad news :(

I just realized that my computer is incompatible with the x64 architecture.
Even though it features EM64T (being the oldest processor to do so [Pentium 4 3.06 GHz, 533 MHz FSB]), a pirated copy of Windows Vista x64 that I used as a test says otherwise :mad:

Ah well, Im about to download the x86 version!

[ICE]

The best option is to dual boot between Ubuntu and Windows XP imo. Everything you need right there. I have about a 70/30 split between Ubuntu and XP.

[the_eternal_dark]

PSO can't run on Wine so in other words, Linux sucks and Windows owns.

(and I just named only one game!)

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=2170

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=3092

For someone who posts news about it in the PC Gaming News area, you don't look around much there (winehq.org).


My 2c:

I've tried using various *nixes before and simply don't find them as useful. Most of the time the issues that arise are not those of application software, as I don't have many special needs on that front, but of drivers for specialty hardware, which is often extremely lacking....

....As for the other major issue commonly cited for 'windows sucking', security, I've had issues with virii/hacking maybe twice in the past 6 years. 99% of keeping safe is user action and not any sort of protection software.

I do agree about the hardware support for any of the *nix systems is kinda crap, but that is mainly in the drivers for the hardware, and in almost every case its the manufacturer's fault, not the OS. And really, it's not the manufacturer's intention to ignore any OS's other than Windows, it's in Windows where they make their money, which is where many people in the home computing and business cubicle computing are most experienced with using, and many companies follow what makes them money the easy way, targeting the largest user base. That and the lack of specs on the specific hardware that has no *nix drivers makes it difficult for anyone to reverse engineer and build their own drivers.

And many users are not like us here on dcemu, they are your general use, chain-letter forwarding, outlook using, non-system updating, porn surfing general users that often screw up their systems with virii/worms/etc. In that sense, most of the security issues come from the fact that many Win-exploits don't require administrator access to f*ck up a computer. Much harder to do on a *nix system in the same respect, due to the fact than any system wide changes needs access to the root account.

But as far as the Windows family of OS's go, XP is my favorite. Mac OSX isn't that bad either, but proprietary tie-in is very heavy with that system.

[Triv1um]

btw, I see that you're having wonderboy nostalgia...im used to seeing the live action michael angelo avatar

Haha, indeed..

I'm having yet another wonderboy 3 - Dragons Trap craze. Have you played it yet?

[quzar]

I do agree about the hardware support for any of the *nix systems is kinda crap, but that is mainly in the drivers for the hardware, and in almost every case its the manufacturer's fault, not the OS. And really, it's not the manufacturer's intention to ignore any OS's other than Windows, it's in Windows where they make their money, which is where many people in the home computing and business cubicle computing are most experienced with using, and many companies follow what makes them money the easy way, targeting the largest user base. That and the lack of specs on the specific hardware that has no *nix drivers makes it difficult for anyone to reverse engineer and build their own drivers.

Of course, but that doesn't make my soundcard work, ya know? If the right drivers aren't out there, it's a problem, regardless of whose fault it is, which keeps me from using the OS.

[Eviltaco64]

Yeah, once again I agree with Quzar again.

I doubt that I couldnt even find the drivers at the current time that I need for Vista let alone Linux (excluding older versions of Red-Hat).

[the_eternal_dark]

Of course, but that doesn't make my soundcard work, ya know? If the right drivers aren't out there, it's a problem, regardless of whose fault it is, which keeps me from using the OS.

What sound card are you referring to? I'm curious. I've had one that wasn't acting right either.



I doubt that I couldnt even find the drivers at the current time that I need for Vista let alone Linux (excluding older versions of Red-Hat).

If it was the OLD OLD kernel (2.4.x), you could probably find out if there is a patch to add it back into the current kernel or request on the developers forum of your favorite flavor to add that support back in for your hardware. Ubuntu has done this numerous times, as has Fedora.

[Junixx]

I installed Ubuntu 8.04 beta just now, everything is working fine, including my Nvidia card. I'm glad this is a LTS release because its worth it, ive been amazed at how much Ubuntu has been easier to use ever since I started with 6.06 (Had to manually do ALOT of things with Dapper, and I was new then and had no clue what to do)

[quzar]

What sound card are you referring to? I'm curious. I've had one that wasn't acting right either.

Oh, I was just giving a possible example of a likely candidate (historically soundcards are problematic driverwise if they're not soundblasters ;) ). The one thing I had major issues with back in the day was my DSL Modem, a SpeedStream..3010 (iirc). The very first time I tried Linux, which was dualbooting Mandrake (no longer goes by that name) in 02. My computer was the family server though, which was a dealbreaker.

Since then there's always been something, most recently with my Sony laptop and none of the hotkeys working nor my PCMCIA WLAN card (a horrible Netgear deal). For the hotkeys there was a set of hacky things to get them to sort of work, but bah. For the wireless adapter though, nothing.

[Shrygue]

No wifi? Try ndiswrapper with the compatible Windows drivers work to make it work.

As for soundcard issues, my Creative Xtreme Audio card doesn't work in Linux but I still can use onboard sound from the motherboard. If your motherboard supports onboard sound, try it that way - unless you really insist on using the sound card. I'd like to, because I prefer having the EAX effects turned on - more fun to listen to music that way.

[Triv1um]

I can never go on with Ndiswrapper. It never works for me. Haha

[Shadowblind]

I dual boot XP and Vista. XP owns all.

[the_eternal_dark]

No wifi? Try ndiswrapper with the compatible Windows drivers work to make it work.

As for soundcard issues, my Creative Xtreme Audio card doesn't work in Linux but I still can use onboard sound from the motherboard. If your motherboard supports onboard sound, try it that way - unless you really insist on using the sound card. I'd like to, because I prefer having the EAX effects turned on - more fun to listen to music that way.

Ndiswrapper only works on some cards, not all.

And as for the X-FI cards, there are beta drivers/support for them, check http://opensource.creative.com/soundcard.html if you want to test it out.

[xg917]

ehh i dont realy have a problem with any OS, the computer in my room is a mac. as everyone knows, the new apple computers could run windows xp. im used to both. i get the same experience with both operating systems.
there is a lack of programs for apple though.. i use windows for recording and editing my own songs and stuff like that. psp stuff i could use mac or windows, its the same deal and programs are similar. the only thing i dont like about mac is that there is no video or audio chat support for any of the messengers, so i use windows for any special occasions like that. idk im always on and off of mac and windows, i use mac most of the time

i think in reality, windows and apple are really similar to one another in my point of view. maybe you use your computers for some other things, games for example. there is a much more larger variaty of games on windows system than apple. i dont play much games on my computer though. thats what i use ps2 and nintendo for :)

[Video_freak]

I'm in the same boat as xg917. I run Mac OS on my MacBook but sometimes launch XP (in VMware Fusion) for Nero or something. Also, I used to run Vista on my desktop but switched back to XP MCE because it's just far more reliable and performs better. Overall, though, I feel Mac OS does everything it's advertised to do- and it does it very well. So I guess I'm going for Mac OS then.

[the_eternal_dark]

I'm in the same boat as xg917. I run Mac OS on my MacBook but sometimes launch XP (in VMware Fusion) for Nero or something. Also, I used to run Vista on my desktop but switched back to XP MCE because it's just far more reliable and performs better. Overall, though, I feel Mac OS does everything it's advertised to do- and it does it very well. So I guess I'm going for Mac OS then.

The easiest way to get the best of all worlds.

[Triv1um]

Has anyone used that Office 2008 for Mac yet?

Is it any good?

[the_eternal_dark]

Has anyone used that Office 2008 for Mac yet?

Is it any good?

It's a bit faster than 2004 but nothing special. Get Open Office for Mac instead and save your money.