The generational blues.

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January 12th, 2009, 12:31
shadowprophet

The generational blues.

Times sure seem to have changed a great deal just in the last year in the video game sceen,

It dosn't seem that long ago when walking into any set of forums with a pro ps3 attitude was an offence worthy of execution. "dcemu was never like this, for some reason, but most video game forums where, it only goes to show how specail this place is"

I remember posting my pro ps3 comments at 1up and various other forums only to be attacked rabbidly and without mercy by endless waves of 360 fans with no ken to reason or logic "at that time" Times certainly have changed, now a ps3 supporter can even get away with saying something like
"360 sucks" and they have a good chance of making it out alive lol.

This thinking as is my norm lead to deeper thoughts and eventualy into software development.

Is anyone privy to the old saying "first generation software blues" This is a expression that basicly mean,

First generation software is generaly the weakest on any given console as developers are new to the console and still learning how to program for them.

I simply have to state, I can understand back years ago when all we had to work with was the snes and nes and atari
and n64 and such that each console had to have it's own launguage. those systems where simply not powerful enough to support the kind of launguages we use in consoles today.

But with every generation that goes by, in my opinion the first generation blues are less and less forgivable.
i simply dont understand why a universal programing lanuguage can not be decided upon for the entire industry.
programing launghages arent really like hardware, languages simply dont become obsolite as often, languages can be updated esily via firmware updates.
Why must the 360 and ps3 have completely alien languages from one another?
to avert hackers? spftware piracy? I dont buy that The secutiry of a given peice of software isnt determined by the programing language.

As consoles become more and more powerful. every generation, every first generation software title seems like a step back. Why? it doesn't make the job any eaiser on the developer to have know learn four completely different languages to port to other consoles or handhelds. The language windows was programed in has changed very very little since windows 95. oh sure its been updated and its a different point version, but thats just spliting hairs..

So why does the console business force the developer to learn multiple difficult languages? it is this thinking that forces many smaller developers to side with one console or another. They simply dont have the time or the resources to learn another language and develop for it.

all on all, if major console brands decided on a standard programing language, it would save money. it would save time it would save a lot of headaches for not just the developer, but the end consumer as well.. It reminds me of something my great grandfather once said to my grandfather "they often dissagreed about everything"

For all your education, you have very little common sence.

This is how i view the industry, for all it's research and power and influience over the consumer, sometimes the console developers seem to have very lttile common sense.

Thoughts? opinions?

I'm going so sleep, nighty night.
January 12th, 2009, 12:36
Eviltaco64

I thought PS3 and 360 both used C. It's that the 360 and PS3 have very different architectures.

Not sure though.
January 12th, 2009, 12:42
shadowprophet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eviltaco64

I thought PS3 and 360 both used C. It's that the 360 and PS3 have very different architectures.

Not sure though.

it could be c, im not entirely sure.
i was almost certain it wasn't though.
January 12th, 2009, 20:38
Blue Protoman

A universal game language would make multiplatform games more common.
January 12th, 2009, 22:40
Eviltaco64

With these newer consoles, it's not about the language.
It's about the hardware inside.

Say there's a game on the Xbox 360 that a company were to port over to Playstation 3. They're already using certain code that would make it run more efficient on the 360, making good use of the 360's components. When they would port it over to the PS3, that optimized 360 code obviously wouldnt do a thing on PS3 unless it were modified to work with it. So, they'll have to optimize the PS3 version by re-writing or making new code that's PS3 friendly. If they didn't know the PS3's hardware all to well, it would be a subpar port as they wouldn't know how to squeeze more out of the hardware (or they ran out of time), which was the case with many games.
January 13th, 2009, 08:33
shadowprophet

yes,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eviltaco64

With these newer consoles, it's not about the language.
It's about the hardware inside.

Say there's a game on the Xbox 360 that a company were to port over to Playstation 3. They're already using certain code that would make it run more efficient on the 360, making good use of the 360's components. When they would port it over to the PS3, that optimized 360 code obviously wouldnt do a thing on PS3 unless it were modified to work with it. So, they'll have to optimize the PS3 version by re-writing or making new code that's PS3 friendly. If they didn't know the PS3's hardware all to well, it would be a subpar port as they wouldn't know how to squeeze more out of the hardware (or they ran out of time), which was the case with many games.

I was some what tired last night and blurting my thoughts aloud, "you guys would be shocked how often i do that,"

so tired it escaped me, the necessity of the differences in their tool chains,

what's most embarrassing is i am aware of that necessity,,
its been taught to me by many talented coders, quzar and drk razII included,

I chuck this one up to fatigue,, still i did drop the ball.
its times like this, when its best to roll with the punches admit my folly, and have a good laugh about the whole thing,

:p

If I had continued my coding, "as i had promised too" this tool chain issue would have been more evident in my mind..
January 13th, 2009, 09:57
Eviltaco64

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowprophet

I was some what tired last night and blurting my thoughts aloud, "you guys would be shocked how often i do that,"

so tired it escaped me, the necessity of the differences in their tool chains,

what's most embarrassing is i am aware of that necessity,,
its been taught to me by many talented coders, quzar and drk razII included,

I chuck this one up to fatigue,, still i did drop the ball.
its times like this, when its best to roll with the punches admit my folly, and have a good laugh about the whole thing,

:p

If I had continued my coding, "as i had promised too" this tool chain issue would have been more evident in my mind..

You're not alone there! I've tried picking up C once and Assembly twice. It wasn't that I didn't understand it as far as I had read (and that was mainly explaining bits, bites, words, how to convert binary to hexi/decimals and vice versa, etc), but I just didn't have the patience to self-teach myself.

I'm sure I'll end up taking a few more cracks at it before I actually start to learn and know what I'm working with.
January 13th, 2009, 10:29
shadowprophet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eviltaco64

You're not alone there! I've tried picking up C once and Assembly twice. It wasn't that I didn't understand it as far as I had read (and that was mainly explaining bits, bites, words, how to convert binary to hexi/decimals and vice versa, etc), but I just didn't have the patience to self-teach myself.

I'm sure I'll end up taking a few more cracks at it before I actually start to learn and know what I'm working with.

how true, For me, what prevented me from continuing,, was when it dawned upon just how much a game developer needs to know, beyond c/c++ I developed a good understanding of c/c++ but when I discovered I would also have to learn direct X, and some other sound utilities it dawned upon me that learning to code was not for the impatient,, it's takes a form of dedication thats boarderlines workaholic/obsessive in nature.

I had always intended to return to codeing. as I still do some day. But I have a mountain i must climb to reach my goal.

I dread that mountain.
January 13th, 2009, 17:44
ICE

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowprophet

how true, For me, what prevented me from continuing,, was when it dawned upon just how much a game developer needs to know, beyond c/c++ I developed a good understanding of c/c++ but when I discovered I would also have to learn direct X, and some other sound utilities it dawned upon me that learning to code was not for the impatient,, it's takes a form of dedication thats boarderlines workaholic/obsessive in nature.

I had always intended to return to codeing. as I still do some day. But I have a mountain i must climb to reach my goal.

I dread that mountain.

I enjoy it here at the bottom of the mountain. Weather's nice.
January 13th, 2009, 19:22
pibs

Yup Eviltaco said it "its the hardware". I am currently in limbo trying to learn C# to build an XNA game. But with this KUDO game creator coming out, I might just give that a shot since I wish to build something simple.

BTW when did we get the similar threads section at the bottom of the page? That was an excellent idea that will hopefully get more people talking in the tumbleweed threads.