History is evil! Let's forget history and repeat mistakes!
p.s. LMAO@"normal" America
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History is evil! Let's forget history and repeat mistakes!
p.s. LMAO@"normal" America
If we don't remind our history, wer're damned to make the same mistakes again and again, thats right.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Vattic
But i think, it must be possible to remind our history and improve mistakes WITHOUT let it rule over our lives and WITHOUT using it as excuse for state control of our media.
Things went wrong in the past, thats right. But now we punish ourselfs with some kind of "violence-prohibition" in our media...?
It is just wrong to cut peoples rights with censorship and agitate them against something/one -THAT is a fact, i learned of our history...
I'm sorry If I was overly harsh, it was out of concern for the german people, not malice. The sickness of nihilism, of anomie, is very sad to me. Lest you doubt the severity, take a look at the empty schools in places that aren't being kept alive by immigrants... I just wish for them to be at ease, to feel relaxed and happy, to be "normal like americans"... that is all.Quote:
Originally Posted by souLLy
Nazi's didn't play Counter Strike. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by wraggster
...also I am a bit curious why they did forbit games like Wolfenstein 3D and any other FPS that came after that which allows you to play against Nazis. In my opinion that just proves how little has changed. The German state and the general public still does show a lot of respect for their facist history (jaja, "good ol' times") and many authorities try everything to support rewriting history to make Nazi-Germany look better than it actually was. There's the actual problem.
Two examples: The great Dresden swindle (poor Germans beeing mass-murdered by evil Allies), genocide exhibitions run by "Human Rights" government organizations putting German war casulties on the same level as Jewish victims during the Shoa, etc.
There are MANY games by German 'developers' that allow you to do that. I would refuse to play anything like that. I fail to see the reason anyone would actually want to play anything like that, but oh well...Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadus
mumbles something about a lost cause...
I actually tend to agree with you there. As soon as this country is fully respected, they'll use it for their own purpose. They already do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cless_Elric
If I'd have been asked, GDR & FRG should never have been "united" in the first place (read: FRG bought the GDR). At least in the GDR the state tried to fight facism - That never was the case with the FRG and it still isn't. They just covered everything up.
Well, history doesn't rule my life. I rule my life. At least I try.Quote:
Originally Posted by HepburnFan
Also, I don't think they're using it as an excuse for the control of the media. They use the control of the media it because it worked for them in the past (heck, it's even been the same people running the media as were in Nazi-Germany).
They also always and still use(d) their control of the media to cover what my and your grandfather REALLY did in their youth (shooting Russians, Amercians, bombing UK to hell, being members of the SA/SS/NSDAP without beeing forced to become member, etc.). My grandfather was soilder fighting for Nazi-Germany in Soviet-Russia and he never told me a single word of what he did there. I am pretty sure that's the same as what the entire generation of his did: cover it up until you die.
Good point :)Quote:
Originally Posted by HepburnFan
It's impossible to judge a lot of people by having met a few or been to a country on vacation.Quote:
Originally Posted by souLLy
Also the comparision to other nations' dark past is not and never was a good excuse for facism.
Germany is controlled by their own conservative Christian right correct? If it is in any way similar to the christian right we have here in America, then they are undoubtedly crazy and unethical... Though I'm thinking they are quite different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cless_Elric
As for the "barbarians" comment. Considering the white peoples of England that live there today are descendants of anglo saxons (who were rather barbaric) and sometimes a cross between that and roman blood (who also started out as barbarians), I dont think It is very fair to talk about the ancient history of a country and use it to describe the people today.
Yeah, they are very different. Positiv about the Christian right here (CDU/CSU represent them in our parlament) is that they seem to be not as Anti-American as our "left" and at least appear to be Pro-Israel. At the same time, they are the ones with a huge organization of Nazi ancestors ('Bund der Vertiebenen', now a "Human Rights" organisation) on their back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap'n 1time
The Social-Democrats (SPD) once were similar to Labour or the Democrats in the US I think, though they seem to be much more conservative and libertarian than what you know in the US or UK. They are exactly as much nationalists on one hand and EU fanatics on the other as the Christian right. Thinking of it, except for the Anti-American thing I can't seem to find any difference at all between both parties. That must be the reason why they are governing together now. ^^
The communists are pretty much dead since 1989. What's left of the former socialist GDR's government (PDS. Die Linke) is a bunch of sad Anti-American idiots that now fill the gap when the Social-Democrats once again moved to the right (1998 with Schröder). I still voted for them since we're lacking any alternative and at least they still have a tiny little bit of potential.
If by anti-american you mean anti-meaningless war and anti-bush they they perhaps have a little bit more in common with the average American today then you would think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Christuserloeser
I guess it's more the kind of beeing Anti-American in general and of beeing Anti-Bush and Anti-War as an excuse for hating everything American. But that should not be reduced to the German left by all means, it's a general problem in Germany and the rest of the world too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap'n 1time
What is up with German's and their contempt of personal space? It seems like they just love to play Big-Brother to each other and lord of what everybody else does. It's this kinda thinking that got them into two world wars, and will undoubtfully bring alot more trouble and grief in the future. They should spend less time worrying about video games, and more time fixing their dwindling economics that lead to poverty.. and there in.. violence.
And another thing, ENOUGH WITH THE GERMAN BASHING! Maybe if there were a few games were the German's WEREN'T the bad guys, maybe they wouldn't have such a low opinion of games.
It's worth noting that WWII propaganda, on BOTH SIDES, was pretty heavy. Each side vilifying the other with alot of allegations, hyping up the negative, and ignoring their own atrocities. And yes, the Allies did plenty of civilian killing. Bad things happen in war. But this war was like 60 years ago. We haven't held a grudge against Japan that long, and they did much worse against the Koreans, Philipios, and Chinese.
Maybe if a certain Religous/Politial group wasn't busy hyping German history for their own political ends, the world could finally move past this small speed-bump in history and things would improve for the better.
That is, unless we all WANT to see Germany move further into the same kinda Isolationism that started the first two world wars. Video games and movies are just the starting block in a very bad trend. Some positive German roll models in movies and games could go a long ways towards reversing this trend. You can't vilify somebody, insult their heritage, and expect them to remain open and friendly. Respect is a two-way street.