Printable View
That line made me laugh. Basically what that says...if by what you are saying. We DO by some stretch of the imagination worship the same God. Then why does that say any other religion OTHER than Islam will not be accepted by God. So Jesus' own religion wouldn't even be accepted by his father???Quote:
Originally Posted by eazy-e
ok fantastic. i believe allah is not real and the god of the bible is. your not going to change any minds so stop. you've made your point we get it. it didnt work so stop.
in order for you to convince us of the "truth" of your religion, you have to give examples we can trust. the quran can not be trusted due to some contridiction in its doctrine:
All quotes from the Qur'an, unless otherwise specified, are from Yusuf Ali and can be found at the Qur'an online.
What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
"Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
"But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).
Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).
"And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).
The first Muslim was Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?
"And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).
"When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
"And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).
Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods?
Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed," (4:48). Also 4:116
The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority," (4:153).
Are Allah's decrees changed or not?
"Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
"The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all, (6:115).
None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" (2:106).
When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not," (16:101).
Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning?
"We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam). (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)! This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).
Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!" So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).
Is wine consumption good or bad?
O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper," (5:90).
(Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?" (47:15).
Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will they command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed," (83:22-25).
this is why i don't believe your scriptures
Jesus Christ is the Messiah the Chosen Prophet of God. We Muslims believe in his prophethood and his miracles of healing the lepper, curing the blind, raising the dead...all by the will of God. Muslims do not worships prophets/messengers they believe in one God (Allah in Arabic) that has no partners. If Jesus is God, part of God, 1/3 or whatever false things you attribute to a noble Prophet then why does the Bible say he prayed...Who is he praying to? Who did he put his face on the ground to in submission? To himself? Why did Jesus say refute someone who called hiim good and he corrected him and said "Why do you call me good NO ONE IS GOOD EXCEPT God"... If Jesus "died" on the cross for YOUR sins then how can God die or part of God die. Who is taking care of the universe if God died? False statement by putting your sins on someone else shoulders. Why would God need to die to forgive your sins? He should just forgive your sins by each individual asking for forgivenss. God does not need to kill his Prophet or himself for your sins to be forgiven? That is a pagan idea....May God guide us to the striaght path.
Learn...Read...Gain knowledge and then make your conclusions.
www.islam-guide.com
www.shareislam.com
Fastest Growing Religion in the World is Islam because it is true and corrects other religions.
Learn about the religion not the people who practiice it.
Fastest Growing Religion in the World is Islam because it is true and corrects other religions.
Learn about the religion not the people who practiice it.[/QUOTE]
true indeed
even though i disagree i thank you for so eloquently stating your thoughts. i have very little knowledge on islam so i wont attempt to rebuke anything for rear of mis-stating. i know i hate it when others do that to me so i wont do it to you. i plan on reading up on the topic for a while though :D. thanks for the eye opener.. finally a religion i havent studied enough!!! lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Froogle
i will answer your questions, but i'm still waiting on your answers.
why did he have to die?
God is infinite.
There is no limit to Him. He is endless.
God is holy.
Holiness is purity. God is incapable of doing anything wrong. Part of the quality of holiness is the inability to do wrong.
God is just.
He always does what is right.
God cannot violate His own righteous declarations, because that would mean God is contradicting Himself.
This justice is according to His nature since it is He is who tells us what is right and wrong.
Therefore, God is infinitely holy and infinitely just
Neither His holiness nor justice can be denied since they are part of His character and God cannot be denied.
We are not infinite and not holy
We are not infinite because we are creations.
We are not holy because we have sinned.
Sin is doing anything against God's Law.
It is God who declares what is right and wrong. He has revealed this to us in the scriptures.
The Law is a reflection of God's character.
God speaks out of what is in His mind and heart. If He says do not lie, it is because it is against God's nature to lie.
God is not speaking without reason or purpose. If He had no reason or purpose, this would mean that God is not trustworthy.
God is trustworthy, therefore God's Law is the standard of perfection, justice, and holiness.
God's Law carries a penalty upon the sinner which is damnation.
Damnation is the act of God where He passes righteous judgment upon a person because of the person's sin against Him.
If breaking God's law did not carry a penalty, then there would be no damnation. But since there is damnation, we can conclude that breaking God's law carries a penalty.
If He did not damn based upon righteousness, then God is doing wrong. Since God cannot do anything wrong, then damnation is righteous.
God is affected by what we do.
Proof of this is found in our prayers. Since God answers our prayers, our prayers have an affect upon God because God is moved to answer.
If our prayers have no affect upon God, then prayer is useless since it accomplishes nothing.
Breaking God's Law, sinning, has a negative effect upon our relationship with God.
God is not injured in a physical way by our sins since God is spirit, perfect, and complete.
But, since damnation exists (because of the justice of God), we can conclude that sin has a negative affect upon the relationship between the sinner and God. If this were not so, there would be no damnation.
Since God is infinite, our offense against Him has an infinite effect.
It is the infinite God we have offended, therefore, the sin results in an infinite offense against God.
A finite person cannot remove an infinite offense against an infinite God.
A finite work cannot remove an infinite offense because the effort of a finite person will always fall short of meeting the justice of an infinite God.
God cannot arbitrarily forgive the sinner without satisfying His infinite justice.
If damnation is righteously given because of justice, so too, forgiveness must be in accordance with justice because both are dealing with sin.
To simply dismiss sin in order to forgive is to deny justice.
If forgiveness is not consistent with God's justice, then God is arbitrary, inconsistent, and unjust.
Therefore, the act of forgiveness also requires an act of justice.
Since it is just that the sinner die and be damned, this justice cannot be ignored.
If it were ignored, then God is not being consistent in His justice.
If it were ignored, then God has no right to damn anyone.
No one is damned who is alive. Only the dead are damned.
Since man cannot earn forgiveness from God through his finite works, it must be God who makes forgiveness possible.
This is so, because there is no one left to make things right, other than God.
Since it is not just to ignore the penalty for sin, and since man cannot satisfy God, there is none left but God to pay for the just penalty of sin.
The sin cannot be ignored because the act of forgiveness also requires and act of justice.
This justice cannot be ignored because God would then be inconsistent.
It is just that the sinner die and suffer judgment.
Death is a punishment of God and damnation follows death.
Since it is just that sin must be dealt with, God must meet that requirement of justice.
This is so, because a finite person cannot please and infinite God's just requirements of holiness and purity.
God must then do what is just in forgiveness of sins or justice cannot be met.
God must then take the place of the sinner and suffer the consequence of the lawful judgment of death upon the sinner.
With justice met, forgiveness can then be rightly given.
This forgiveness, which cannot be earned by man's effort, can only be received from God by man's faith - because there is nothing else he can do.
that is why he died but you also ask how can god or part of god die? most people don't understand the idea of death. his body died but not the soul, he made his body alive again, which is the resurrection.
why did he pray and submit?
HE WAS OUR EXAMPLE!!! he didn't rebuke the man for calling him good. he realized the man didn't know he was God and therefore made him realize that no man can be good.
the easiest way to explain the trinity is water.
h2o is the chemical makeup, but it can be ice(solid), water(liquid), and vapor(gas). it is the same in nature and makeup but different in its presence. and if you look up the triple point of water they can exist at the time in each form.l
now you prove me wrong
Islam/Christianity/Judaism all share the same God, that's all I can really say about the 3 monotheistic religions. But I still don't buy into any of them.
No No No. Islam is the fastest growing religion because it provides a SCAPEGOAT. The Gods are different. I can guarentee you that most of the people that convert to Islam are people who converted from religions other that Judaism and Christianity.
I'm not trying to offend anyone. And I'm not going to change my beliefs. However, I am having fun proving people wrong. lol
fun prvoing others wrong when ur wrong urself ma brotha. most of the new converts are mostly christaians and jews...Quote:
Originally Posted by LilSwish722