The Spirituality Thread

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April 16th, 2007, 03:23
tactful mcbee

if we use the same scripture but have different beliefs someone is wrong and someone is right. therefore it is not ok if we have different beliefs because what you say about our God is insulting
April 16th, 2007, 03:27
Kaiser

Quote:

Originally Posted by theICE_MAN

not my interpretation. CHRISTIAN interpretation. catholics arent christians because of that.
EDIT: christian dogma on salvation-

1. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith -- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God -- not by works, so that no one can boast" (Eph. 2:8-9, NIV).
2. "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace" (Gal. 5:4).
1. This verse and its context plainly teach that if you believe that you are saved by faith and works then you are not saved at all. This is a common error in the cults. Because they have a false Jesus, they have a false doctrine of salvation. (Read Rom. 3-5 and Gal. 3-5).
2. you cannot add to the work of God. Gal. 2:21 says, "I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" (NIV)
3. "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin" (Rom. 3:20).
1. "However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness" (Rom. 4:5).
2. "Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law" (Gal. 3:21).

Your argument just fell apart there. Your pointing out interpretations. Ever thought that other might interpret it differently?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tactful mcbee

if we use the same scripture but have different beliefs someone is wrong and someone is right. therefore it is not ok if we have different beliefs because what you say about our God is insulting

You basically just said that your intolerant and it is not okay that you have different beliefs. Who are you to say what is insulting? Perhaps I find your arguments insulting.
April 16th, 2007, 03:29
ICE

i am open that i may be wrong. if i wasnt i wouldnt be studying if i should eat pork or not. i thought it was okay but i may be wrong.

here's my issue. truth is NOT relative.<< logical opinion. if we disagree someones right someones wrong. i believe i am and therefore i want to show you where your wrong. i dont do this so i can say i won. i do this because i want to help you. i have given the proof that we are different so now its up to you to decide whos right and whos wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiser

Your argument just fell apart there. Your pointing out interpretations. Ever thought that other might interpret it differently?

um thats the entire point of this debate. we have different beliefs therefore one of us it wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiser

You basically just said that your intolerant and it is not okay that you have different beliefs.

he never said that disagreeing with him was wrong. dont put words in his mouth. that was a petty comment. he just said that if 2 people look at the same thing and come to 2 different conclusions at least one of them is wrong. do you disagree?
April 16th, 2007, 03:44
tactful mcbee

Quote:

You basically just said that your intolerant and it is not okay that you have different beliefs. Who are you to say what is insulting? Perhaps I find your arguments insulting.

and your point would be.
Exodus 23:13
And in all things that I have said unto you be circumspect: and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.

the God you say you worship commands you not to tolerate the utterances of other gods. does that mean anything to you
April 16th, 2007, 03:54
Kaiser

Quote:

Originally Posted by theICE_MAN

i am open that i may be wrong. if i wasnt i wouldnt be studying if i should eat pork or not. i thought it was okay but i may be wrong.

Very glad to hear that. :)

I admitted a long time ago that I might be wrong to. The only way we will find the real truth is when we die. For God's truth is not refutable. :)

Quote:

here's my issue. truth is NOT relative.<< logical opinion. if we disagree someones right someones wrong. i believe i am and therefore i want to show you where your wrong. i dont do this so i can say i won. i do this because i want to help you.

I don't want to hear it though. I don't want you to try and convert me to your beliefs. I just want you to tolerate my religion and not insult it. How simple of a demand is that?

Your doing this to gain a convert. I realize your not here for personal glory and I never said you were. I'm just saying that insulting someone else's beliefs is not the way to approach people.

Saying that Catholics aren't christian is insulting. All you had to say is that I don't believe that Catholic teachings are the proper teachings of Christ. I would have been fine with such a response. That doesn't come off insulting.

Quote:

um thats the entire point of this debate. thats what youve been denying for the last hour or so. we are different therefore one of us it wrong.

The debate is whether you have the right to say which is right and which is wrong. I'm not here to say your beliefs are wrong. I'm simply saying that you should open up a bit and quit trying to insult my religous beliefs. Your claiming your right without even considering that others religious beliefs may be different.

Quote:

he never said that disagreeing with him was wrong. dont put words in his mouth. that was a petty comment. he just said that if 2 people look at the same thing and come to 2 different conclusions at least one of them is wrong. do you disagree?

But he did say it was wrong to disagree.

He clearly said "it is not ok if we have different beliefs"

Thats a pretty straightforward answer. There is going to be a wrong answer and a right answer. But no one can be sure which is the right and which is the wrong answer. Saying that the bible can tell set the line straight is wrong as well. As who are you to say that your interpretation is right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tactful mcbee

and your point would be.
Exodus 23:13
And in all things that I have said unto you be circumspect: and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.

the God you say you worship commands you not to tolerate the utterances of other gods. does that mean anything to you

Yeah to me it means not to worship pagan dieties or to worship any other idol. Thats my interpretation, your free to take it another way.

Praying to Mary is not an act of worship IMO. Again your free to take it your way again.
April 16th, 2007, 04:05
ICE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiser

Very glad to hear that. :)

I admitted a long time ago that I might be wrong to. The only way we will find the real truth is when we die. For God's truth is not refutable. :)

I don't want to hear it though. I don't want you to try and convert me to your beliefs. I just want you to tolerate my religion and not insult it. How simple of a demand is that?

Your doing this to gain a convert. I realize your not here for personal glory and I never said you were. I'm just saying that insulting someone else's beliefs is not the way to approach people.

Saying that Catholics aren't christian is insulting. All you had to say is that I don't believe that Catholic teachings are the proper teachings of Christ. I would have been fine with such a response. That doesn't come off insulting.

The debate is whether you have the right to say which is right and which is wrong. I'm not here to say your beliefs are wrong. I'm simply saying that you should open up a bit and quit trying to insult my religous beliefs. Your claiming your right without even considering that others religious beliefs may be different.

But he did say it was wrong to disagree.

He clearly said "it is not ok if we have different beliefs"

Thats a pretty straightforward answer. There is going to be a wrong answer and a right answer. But no one can be sure which is the right and which is the wrong answer. Saying that the bible can tell set the line straight is wrong as well. As who are you to say that your interpretation is right?

Yeah to me it means not to worship pagan dieties or to worship any other idol.

Praying to Mary is not an act of worship.

first off i never intended to insult anyone or anything.

i pray to deities not a women. fyi jesus called her women like 6 times. pretty sure he did that for a reason.

you still think catholics are christians i, and the fact that during the inquisition catholics killed an unbelievable amount of protestans lol, still disagree.
April 16th, 2007, 04:05
tactful mcbee

Quote:

admitted a long time ago that I might be wrong to. The only way we will find the real truth is when we die. For God's truth is not refutable.

or read the bible.

Quote:

Saying that Catholics aren't christian is insulting. All you had to say is that I don't believe that Catholic teachings are the proper teachings of Christ. I would have been fine with such a response. That doesn't come off insulting.

this is a debate. facts are facts, if you can't tolerate our arguments presentation you shouldn't debate. we don't beat around the bush. if you die and don't hear the gosple because we wouldn't come out and say it, then we are responsible for you soul.

Quote:

Saying that the bible can tell set the line straight is wrong as well. As who are you to say that your interpretation is right?

who said we are right. we said you are wrong. your own beliefs contridict your own scripture. THAT IS THE DEBATE. not simple misinterpretation but contridictions of how you are to attain salvation.

thats whats on the line
April 16th, 2007, 04:18
Kaiser

Quote:

Originally Posted by tactful mcbee

or read the bible.

Believe me I've done it. :)

Quote:

this is a debate. facts are facts, if you can't tolerate our arguments presentation you shouldn't debate. we don't beat around the bush. if you die and don't hear the gosple because we wouldn't come out and say it, then we are responsible for you soul.

Thats a very medieval thing to say. The bible is not a text book. I doubt Iceman would agree with your stance here. Do not impose your beliefs on me. I do not want you to. The bible is a book to be interpretted not a book to be taken literally. Fundamentalists have no place in this argument.

Quote:

who said we are right. we said you are wrong. your own beliefs contridict your own scripture. THAT IS THE DEBATE.

It only contradicts our beliefs under your interpretation. The debate was never about what/who is right and what is wrong. I started this thread to explain to Iceman how insulted I felt. You simply jumped in and started bible thumping.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theICE_MAN

first off i never intended to insult anyone or anything.

i pray to deities not a women. fyi jesus called her women like 6 times. pretty sure he did that for a reason.

You obviously don't believe that Mary's a valid person to pray to. Thats fine, but my belief will differ.

Quote:

you still think catholics are christians i, and the fact that during the inquisition catholics killed an unbelievable amount of protestans lol, still disagree.

Bringing up the Spanish inquisition is irrelavent. Catholics (and more specifically Spanish monarchs) are capable of doing terrible things just as much as the next guy. That was an attempt to take a shot at my church, yet again, but I can overlook it.

Can we all possibly agree to disagree then? :D
April 16th, 2007, 04:20
SnesR0X

Quote:

Originally Posted by tactful mcbee

or read the bible.

yes, because everything in the bible is completely true. (sarcasm)
April 16th, 2007, 04:22
ICE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiser

You obviously don't believe that Mary's a valid person to pray to. Thats fine, but my belief will differ.

Bringing up the Spanish inquisition is irrelavent. Catholics (and more specifically Spanish monarchs) are capable of doing terrible things just as much as the next guy. That was an attempt to take a shot at my church, yet again, but I can overlook it.

Can we possibly agree to disagree then?

the inquisition comment wasnt meant to be taken seriously. that was what the "lol" thing was for. it was a joke. i havent taken any shots at your church. just its beliefs.

and no, praying to mary, a women, is about as valid as praying to my neighbor.

we disagree and im fine with that now that you have been presented with what i know as truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnesR0X

yes, because everything in the bible is completely true. (sarcasm)

enough with the petty comments. if you have something valid to say say it. i dont want to hear your opinion if you have no facts to back it up.

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