Wii Homebrew Sites Supporting Piracy ? - The Back Up Loader is Bad for Homebrew

Nintendo are known to get pissy with warez on their consoles, they are actively doing a worldwide stance against the r4 flash cart and sadly homebrew will be affected, ive recently read articles claiming that sites who log all the games pirated do damage to the Homebrew Community, im not naming the sites to start scene wars and yes they probably do some damage but these sites arent really considered Homebrew anyway and they risk Nintendos wrath that really is up to them, but today we have seen sites posting videos of a backup loader that promises to massive damage to the Wii Homebrew Scene a scene that has made massive strides with some great emulators on the horizon with most of the consoles we love emulated on the system. The posting of the videos and the way that piracy is embraced hurts the scene again and yes we risk Nintendo coming after homebrew sites infact in some ways it may serve them right but if they do it could drag the whole community in, im not sure about other sites but i dont know of any who could fight against the likes of Nintendo.

Now i know that most likely 99% of people pirate in some form or another but this could give the main companies just what they want to nail the homebrew scene down.

Agree or Not via Comments

its not all about piracy.. it also would alow people to play games that arn't avaliable on the wii such as guitarhero1-2-rock the 80's ^-^

Ah yes, but karma is a bitch. Look at all the companies starting to go after nintendo.... and im pretty sure, as long as your not pirating games, Nintendo cant do anything to you. Once you own a console you can do with it as you please as long as your not making money off of it, and last i knew homebrew doesnt make a cent.....

I dont think I've ever made Nintendo lose money. I downloaded most of my old NES/SNES roms during the late N64 - Early Gamecube era, and a lot of my N64 roms before the Wii came out.
Still, I own/owned all of the above systems except Wii.

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Originally Posted by wraggster

this could give the main companies just what they want to nail the homebrew scene down.

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Because companies are good at stopping homebrew. If Nintendo puts out a firmware update that blocks this, I'll just not upgrade. It's not like I even care about the Wii aside from a few games that wouldn't even require a new firmware version...

This cracks me up. This is coming from someone who promotes Nintendo DS flash carts on his site, among other "applications" that could be used for piracy.

ye i think this is pretty stupid. homebrew has never been affected by piracy. not on the xbox,ps2,psp,ds,gba. im pretty sure every console other than the ps3 has been hacked to pirate games. even the 64 with that blank cartridge u plug in. the psp has had the biggest battle. and ok homebrew wasnt on some of the older machines bt where homebrew can exist. it does.

yes they might send out a update to kill homebrew, bt the hackers always win. they have never not. theres always a new exploit to be found.

now all we need is for the ps3 to be hacked. it might start selling then.

Piracy sells consoles, just not games :>

really? this game of 1up has never been won by the companies... ever!!!
Somebody name 1 completely effective anti homebrew or piracy measure from a company,oh and good luck...

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Originally Posted by NoQuarter

Somebody name 1 completely effective anti homebrew or piracy measure from a company,oh and good luck...

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Lenslok

Tell me what the diference is by supporting this new wii software hack when already this site fully supports everything that Dark Alex does on the psp (fully unlocked system, play any unsigned code, iso compressors, iso loader, umd dumpers etc etc), plus this site also supports wii and 360 modchips etc? :confused:

Something smells of hypocarcy on here. :rofl:

I love the amount of people that have pushed the panic button because the Backup Loader is finally a reality and how Nintendo will effectively shut down the Homebrew scene.

First of all, they had their chance. They were told about a possible exploit months ago and took their time to respond and then did not seem too interested about it. The only serious move they made was disabling the Twilight Hack briefly with a new update.

Next for all those people complaining about people using the Backup loader the most popular Homebrew facilities include Nes/Snes/Genesis/etc emulators, which stops people from purchasing classic titles for the WiiStore. Not only that but a Wad Manager is also pretty popular and allows people to download digital distributed titles for free. Already Nintendo will be feeling the pinch from these activities, but this is ok why?

Now with the Backup loader comes a way to boot backups on a Custom IOS via the HBC, eliminating the mod chips use, possibly the main reason people are pissed because I no of a lot of people who charge quite a large sum to solder 9 wires to the Wii Drive board, sometimes $60/£30 just to solder it! Now this will simply not be needed which would give a real reason why people have an issue with it. I also look forward to the new versions of games that could come out, I think someone already mentioned the hacked copies of Guitar Hero that are out there, and this could provide more customised versions of games available

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Originally Posted by Baboon

Tell me what the diference is by supporting this new wii software hack when already this site fully supports everything that Dark Alex does on the psp (fully unlocked system, play any unsigned code, iso compressors, iso loader, umd dumpers etc etc), plus this site also supports wii and 360 modchips etc? :confused:

Something smells of hypocarcy on here. :rofl:

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/\ What he said /\

"Piracy does nothing good for the scene! Here's a review of the new DS flash card that just came out..."

I agree with the others. it's totaly pointless this site taking a anti piracy stand point without it removing alot of content on the site. every homebrew game that uses a trade marked charecter is breaking a copy right, every single emulator is breaking a copy right more so on wii since nintendo are actualy selling the games there, not to mention all the PSP stuff and adverts for mod chips and flash cards.

to behonest you cant realy take the moral high ground when your site is prety much entirly programs that break copy right laws. as no matter what way you look at it unless the publisher has said they will give the game away free to play it any way other than the original console and cartridge/tape/disc is no differant to you telling people how to run pirate games on a present day console.

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Originally Posted by Baboon

Tell me what the diference is by supporting this new wii software hack when already this site fully supports everything that Dark Alex does on the psp (fully unlocked system, play any unsigned code, iso compressors, iso loader, umd dumpers etc etc), plus this site also supports wii and 360 modchips etc? :confused:

Something smells of hypocarcy on here. :rofl:

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i think the idea that he working with is "when a companies game system gets Hacked they normally LOCK down a system and start going after ways to do homebrew with an iron fist." not "OMG STEALING IS BAD" and thus homebrew could be locked out on the wii and people that make and sell things like mod chips and such will start getting sued. thus killing off what we so enjoy. which you can say till your blue in the face "you can't keep keep a good hacker down." but that still doesn't keep a number of people going belly up ... or worse being put in jail. when backups start running wild the shite hits the fan.

well, i hate tell some of the people this but a good 50 to 60 % of all homebrew is emulation and the 80 to 90% of homebrew that people actually use is emulation.
emulation is piracy ... if you think it isn't your fooling yourself. I mean there is no way in hell you own everything you have a rom of. roms were made for the sake of piracy. If you don't own it or have never bought it .. it's stealing even if it's 900 years old. but most companies don't really care about that except they may care a little more now cause instead of buying super mario brothers on wii ware .. you just boot your rom and their out money.

all that being said, I have been completely dirt poor my hole life. so piracy has allowed me to play some games i would of never got to play. I am completely thankful for this. But as i get older i started to realize most of the crap i get i will never ever touch. I feel this will be the same with the wii as people will more then likely just want a hand full of games. most of which Most Wii owners already own as they are the only games worth playing on the damn system.

do you want to know what i dont get?? Wraggster? you care about piracy and post, emulators and premote Modchips and R4s and that sort? Yeah right.. Piracy hardly effected the ps2, gba, ds,xbox... and besides someones obviously going to make an emu or loader.. so why cry over it?/ OOO waaa someones releasing Emus but im gunna post them on my site cos i dont care about sony or sega!! waaa someone releases loader i do not want on my site!! waaa

the fact is, the computer business is almost as big as the movie industry. look what halo 3 did to that on the lauch day. if people can honestly say that piracy is hurting the gaming industry then they r stupid. this industry is growing all the time. and with the wii (where 90% of games r 2 week jobs in the making with some stupid gimmick) then its great to pirate a game. if i had paid for half of my wii games id be pretty annoyed and would of probably sold it. if a game is worthy of the price tag, then ill pay for it.

and anyone who'd pay for a 10 yr old game when u can play the roms well again thats just stupid.

The scene was bound to go down the pothole soon or later. In this case, it just might be sooner.

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Originally Posted by att

its not all about piracy.. it also would alow people to play games that arn't avaliable on the wii such as guitarhero1-2-rock the 80's ^-^

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What? How?

I personally only emulate the games I cannot get, like Earthbound for example. If I have a way to get the game legally, like over the VC, I'll do that. The backup loader is the first homebrew I've seen that carries the risk of turning the Wii into the next Dreamcast, and we all know what happened with that illustrious system.

No matter how someone explains it to me I will NOT pay $100+ for a copy of FF3 on the SNES.

I will NOT pay fees to import a game I can't understand anyways either. The beauty of emulation is you can get working hacks and translations that arn't on the market and never will be. Look at SD3, a great SNES game that was replaced in the US by Secret of Evermore, but as I cannot read Japanese I can only play the translation. Unless they release it on the VC, I'll not be playing it any other way.

The backup loader is all about getting free games too, but those take away from the current profit-base Nintendo has, not one that has been all but abandoned. I cannot support anyone embarrassing anything that will make Nintendo into another Sega.

I'm sorry to disappoint you nay-sayers, but I don't view this as hippocracy, just realism.

While it won't give Nintendo a better view of the scene, it sure won't hurt it. Remember Nintendo thinks we are the bad guys. And there's nothing inherently wrong with a back up loader. It's a little absurd to think that a back up loader is completely wrong.

Also, remember Bushing has been trying to prevent this. He even tried working with Nintendo.

I have mixed feelings, but being anti-back up loader won't really help. At some point, Nintendo needs to step up to the plate. We can't keep taking the blame for the shortcomings.

Besides, now I don't have to worry about my Wii games breaking. And realistically there isn't really anything on the Wii that I think is pirate-worthy. The Wii has the least appealing games this gen.

There's too many casual gamers for much lost money. Let the target audience pay for everything.

Hmmm, this is obviously going to result in Nintendo coming down hard on the scene, I've no doubt Brakken knows this so I can't see why he would draw attention to this other than to get a few more hits from the pirate kiddies.

A shame as I think his sites are generally some of the better sites out there normally.

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Originally Posted by souLLy

Hmmm, this is obviously going to result in Nintendo coming down hard on the scene, I've no doubt Brakken knows this so I can't see why he would draw attention to this other than to get a few more hits from the pirate kiddies.

A shame as I think his sites are generally some of the better sites out there normally.

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Hey I loved your review of the Wlip! http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=97689

This is really not that much different than a modchip. We all need to just let it go. It's going to come out and it's not going to affect the scene anymore than modchips and flashcarts.

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Originally Posted by geise69

Hey I loved your review of the Wlip! http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=97689

This is really not that much different than a modchip. We all need to just let it go. It's going to come out and it's not going to affect the scene anymore than modchips and flashcarts.

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Heck, I know it's trolling but I'll rise to that. At the time it was the only method of playing Gamecube homebrew on the Wii and if I recall it was pre-native Wii homebrew too so there was the possibility that it would have been necessary for Wii homebrew.

At the end of the day making a stand against piracy will always get you flak, as the little pirate kids always want something for free. Sometimes it's unfortunate that, to run homebrew, you need to use the same devices that you can use for piracy; like a DS flashcard, this is not one of those times.

Waninkoko's loader purely exists for piracy, nothing else. It's an interesting development, but not one that should be posted on a reputable homebrew site, it retracts massively from the legitimacy of the scene and the warezers will be the first to bitch and moan when their favourite sites get shut down because they've been leaned on by Nintendo (shock horror, emu sites don't have deep pockets!).

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Originally Posted by souLLy

Heck, I know it's trolling but I'll rise to that. At the time it was the only method of playing Gamecube homebrew on the Wii and if I recall it was pre-native Wii homebrew too so there was the possibility that it would have been necessary for Wii homebrew.

At the end of the day making a stand against piracy will always get you flak, as the little pirate kids always want something for free. Sometimes it's unfortunate that, to run homebrew, you need to use the same devices that you can use for piracy; like a DS flashcard, this is not one of those times.

Waninkoko's loader purely exists for piracy, nothing else. It's an interesting development, but not one that should be posted on a reputable homebrew site, it retracts massively from the legitimacy of the scene and the warezers will be the first to bitch and moan when their favourite sites get shut down because they've been leaned on by Nintendo (shock horror, emu sites don't have deep pockets!).

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But what makes the backup loader such a bad thing when the most popular homebrew here are the emulators and the wad installers, both taking away revenue from Nintendo anyways? Is it because its cheaper? or perhaps because people think its unfair they may have to buy the game twice? or they do not want to purchase 15yr old titles? Whatever the reason you can not have your cake and eat it. Homebrew is a buzzword for piracy, its illegal. Modding your console and creating games is one thing, but creating methods to steal games should either be looked down upon completely or supported. You cant say in one case its alright and in another its not.

Also the Back Up Loader does have a legitimate use, to, ironically enough, back up real games. My copy of Harry Potter is barely readable due to scratches and a backed up version would be nice.

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Homebrew is a buzzword for piracy, its illegal

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actually its been prove in court its not (Sega vs. Accolade), and so its also legal to use emulators to run public domain roms. Running backups of your own roms is more problematic as is legal in some countries and not in others.

You do have a point, but we are more concerned about the survival of the homebrew scene and if Nintendo (and others) see homebrew as a threat to profits then we have a big problem.

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Originally Posted by Moose2000

Also the Back Up Loader does have a legitimate use, to, ironically enough, back up real games. My copy of Harry Potter is barely readable due to scratches and a backed up version would be nice.

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I'm not disagreeing that it could technically have a legitimate use, but regardless it's illegal and therefore not welcome here.

First and foremost let me say that I am sick and tired of hearing, from both sides, about the piracy battle.
Both sides want to spew the information out and twist it in a manor in which it is made to look like black and white only. Sorry to burst everyone's bubble but life just doesn't work like that. In short (or more correctly long, lol) here's how I see it:

First up is the concept of copyright in the first place. Copyrights are an okay concept. They are there to protect the originator(s) of the material(s) from loss of possible income. That's perfectly fine and just. However forcing the end user to only be able to do certain things or use certain functions of a purchased device due to licensing or copyright protection is horsesh*t. "Congratulations on your purchase of the nicest toaster on the market! We sure hope you enjoy eating nothing but toast made with white bread toasted in this machine. Please be aware that the use of any other style of bread constitutes a violation of the End User Agreement and will be subject to penalties including: fines, jail time, the death of your family, and castration." I'm sorry, but if I just plunked down $300+ on a piece of hardware, I CAN and I WILL do with it WHATEVER I please. I put used grocery bags in my trash cans as liners, which is not their intended usage, am I to feel guilty of some crime because I found a better use for them than just what they were intended for? Kiss my @$$ if you think so. I'm being perfectly honest when I say this, if it wasn't for the Xecuter3 that is in my XBOX right now, I would have relegated the XBOX to the backroom junk pile after I finished playing Halo 1. Instead, because of the modchip that is in it, it has a permanent place in my entertainment center as a streaming media box thanks to XBMC. Same deal with my PSP. Without custom firmware I probably would have never even purchased the thing.

Of course, it's hard not to violate copyright law unless you've got an annual income somewhere around the Bill Gates level. Ever make a mix tape for your loved one off of the radio? Copyright violation. Ever record a TV show while you were away so that you could watch it later and end up not erasing it right after? Copyright violation. Etc, etc.

When it comes down to it, piracy has a good side and a bad.
First the good:
-Emulation. Well, if you don't own the game AND the device then you are committing one form of piracy or another. There is however the question of availability. Piles of games and devices never make it out of their country of origin, or never get translated (i.e. Mother 3), and are essentially left to the emulation community to make available to those of us unfortunate enough to either not live in Japan or speak Japanese as an example. Furthermore emulation helps to preserve these great games and systems, MAME being possibly the flagship of this concept. If it were not for the MAME project all of those great games from our childhood would be tossed to the distant corners of our memories. Where I live, with the exception of 4-5 newer arcade games at the local movie theater, there are no arcades anymore so I'm left with either the choice of never playing pretty much anything or I could grab a ROM of the game I'd like to play and a copy of MAME and be able to spend a couple hours reliving my childhood. Not really a choice as I, and I'm sure others, see it.
-Security. Whether or not companies are willing to admit it, piracy helps push the envelope. This is true in both the software/firmware and hardware departments. If nobody could bypass any hardware protection schemes or find loopholes in software then the technology would most likely grow at a much lower rate if at all, at least in the field of encryption.
-Hardware Sales. As I've stated earlier, and as others have stated, some devices are just crap without being "cracked". The XBOX is a GREAT system when it's cracked as is the PSP and I'm really interested in seeing where the community takes the wii and eventually the 360 and PS3.
Then the bad:
-Price. Since piracy is somewhat rampant, some companies tack on a little extra to the final cost of the product to make up for the perceived loss to maintain what they believe to be their desired profit. Considering how a lot of game titles now cost in the $60 range new, this is a bit rediculous. It should be noted though that a certain percent of the total cost of the software goes towards debugging because, god knows, people that get paid in the $56000-$82000 range should be allowed to suck so hard at what they do that the consumer should be punished for it. I don't know about you, but I wish I had a job where if I had a bad day people had to pay me for me messing up.
-DRM and other annoyances. You've got a crappy job, you can't afford internet access, and you've just purchased a game you've been wanting to play for a while. So you bring it home, unwrap it, go to install it only to find out that you can't actually play it because you need to have an internet connection to register it with the company. Sorry, but FORCING people to have internet access AFTER they already shelled out the bread for the software in the first place is complete BS. I paid $150 for an OEM version of Windows XP pro and after I installed it I was forced to register it with Microshaft because they don't want me using it on anymore than however many computers the license is valid for. They already got their damned money, they do NOT need to know where I live, what I do, how many computers I own, etc. Considering how many computers I have all that I have to say is thank god for Linux!

Homebrew is a whole other topic. The software itself for the most part should be perfectly legal. The question of how to get the homebrew code to execute is another matter. If it contains any code from the system's development kit it's more than likely illegal. If it bypasses, alters, or contains a bootstrap from the device it's more than likely illegal. The only reason that no company actively pursues charges against most homebrew developers is because there's no real loss of profit though it could be argued that if the developer(s) don't pay for the license then they are not paying the company what they "owe".

When it comes down to it, no matter how hard the hardware manufacturers push, they are NEVER going to eliminate piracy. I'm not going to say that they should ignore the problem because they shouldn't but they do need to adopt a new perspective on it maybe similar to how the PS3 can have Linux sitting right next to the PS3 OS so that people can still have their homebrew and emulators (though with certain restrictions currently).

Sorry Wraggster, I love you man, and I hold a massive amount of respect for you and have been an avid reader of yours since the Dreamcast days, but I have to agree with a lot of these posts that this site taking an anti-piracy stance is hypocritical in more ways than one. With that being said I do however understand that to protect both the scene and the community a statement of a similar nature had to be made so I'm not going to state anymore on the subject than I already have.

Honestly, I'm not trying to start anything with this rant, just putting my $0.02 out there. My apologies also for rambling on for such a long while, just tired of hearing both sides crying all of the time and had to get it off of my chest. I'm also sorry for any spelling errors, mutilation of proper grammar, and violations of punctuation laws :p

With love and respect to the homebrew scene and independent developers who continue to amaze us without trying to rape our wallets. -Kaferenza

So using a psp custom firmware, umd rippers/dumpers, iso compressors etc is ok to post on here then? Also advertising direct links to modchips for wii, 360, psp etc etc is allowed. ...but talk of a possible backuploader for the wii is bad?

Sorry but I don't see the difference?


Could an admin on here clear up my fuzziness on this please? Ta

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Originally Posted by kaferenza

Sorry Wraggster, I love you man, and I hold a massive amount of respect for you and have been an avid reader of yours since the Dreamcast days, but I have to agree with a lot of these posts that this site taking an anti-piracy stance is hypocritical in more ways than one. With that being said I do however understand that to protect both the scene and the community a statement of a similar nature had to be made so I'm not going to state anymore on the subject than I already have.

Honestly, I'm not trying to start anything with this rant, just putting my $0.02 out there. My apologies also for rambling on for such a long while, just tired of hearing both sides crying all of the time and had to get it off of my chest. I'm also sorry for any spelling errors, mutilation of proper grammar, and violations of punctuation laws :p

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That man has hit the nail on the head, I was not trying to be pro or anti piracy, just really point out the hypocrisy that seems to be flooding these forums.

I dont think that anyone here encourages piracy when they sell items that you can use to pirate. They want people to use it for good, not evil. Though there is a fair deal of hypocrisy as Baboon said, and homebrew is truly a gateway to piracy (and the fact that several things are widely supported on here if on PSP but those same types of things get locked if Wii-related).

Still, it's really all up to the homebrew user to save the scene. If they pirate, they cause companies to add security updates.

Lastly, if you're going to build a site for homebrew, that's fine. If you're going to promote and make money off of hacked consoles, that's fine too. But I wouldnt be suprised if there's some tool or application for piracy released. There's always one hacker out there able to ruin it for everyone (and when it's happened to so many consoles already).

Dont get me wrong though, I love the homebrew scene. If I had never discovered it, I probably would've had a PS2 and a Dreamcast and play them occasionally, and though I could criticize DCEmu and Wraggster in several areas, I do have to thank them for re-fueling my interest in video games.

Tired of everyone use the "2 cents" line what the hell does that even mean?

And on another note roms are piracy it doesn't matter of the systems are defunct the games were ripped and are being played for free.

Im afraid it has been leaked

*Think I'll try to delay the inevitable sh*t-storm by removing this link - souLLy*

I would like to apologize to souLLy for trolling. I like the DCEMU site and if I didn't I wouldn't be here. However I never liked the anti-piracy thing that goes on here when another site posts (just info) about a device that could be used for homebrew or piracy or whatever. It is no different. I go to Tehskeen all the time and to bash a site that just posts info no different than here is just wrong. I don't know why Wraggs has it out for Brakken but it's kinda sad, since I respect both of them. Anyways, internet drama aside I would again like to personally appologise to you souLLy.

Good news for the admin on this site I guess... Waninkoko has just posted on his site "Congratulations! I don't care about who leaked Backup-Loader but now it's OFFICIALLY an abandoned project. Enjoy it. "... so doesnt like this is going any further now.

Apparently he was using it to leverage a mod team to pay him, and never intended to release it.

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Originally Posted by $n!pR

Apparently he was using it to leverage a mod team to pay him, and never intended to release it.

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If that was true, why have beta testers, and risk getting it leaked?

Also the knowledge of this has been about with coders in the wii scene, they just don't want to support piracy. But now someone has shown the way...

Beats me, I don't know how his brain works...

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Originally Posted by geise69

I would like to apologize to souLLy for trolling. I like the DCEMU site and if I didn't I wouldn't be here. However I never liked the anti-piracy thing that goes on here when another site posts (just info) about a device that could be used for homebrew or piracy or whatever. It is no different. I go to Tehskeen all the time and to bash a site that just posts info no different than here is just wrong. I don't know why Wraggs has it out for Brakken but it's kinda sad, since I respect both of them. Anyways, internet drama aside I would again like to personally appologise to you souLLy.

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Hey it's no biggie, everyone's entitled to their opinion right?

I accept it's confusing sometimes with so many things that can be considered grey area, we have to make a call on it all, to keep things legal and respectable- and sometimes it's controversial. The DCEmu staff would like to think we keep things more respectable than most sites- but by all means call us out on it if you think we're being inconsistent.

The Wraggs/Brakken headbutting has a little more back story than that I believe but there's no need to bore everyone with site politics.

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Originally Posted by Baboon

Good news for the admin on this site I guess... Waninkoko has just posted on his site "Congratulations! I don't care about who leaked Backup-Loader but now it's OFFICIALLY an abandoned project. Enjoy it. "... so doesnt like this is going any further now.

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Wait so you think it's bad that something got ripped and distributed illegally? wow, irony ;)

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Originally Posted by Darksaviour69

Also the knowledge of this has been about with coders in the wii scene, they just don't want to support piracy. But now someone has shown the way...

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Exactly what I was thinking...

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Originally Posted by souLLy

Wait so you think it's bad that something got ripped and distributed illegally? wow, irony ;)

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Nah just though this would keep you guys happy seeing as this 'illegal software' has been stopped in its tracks early. ...oh and thanks for clearing up my previous posts questions regarding piracy of this site. ...not! lol

This guy should employ more trustworthy beta testers in the future.