"No Real Need" for Consoles

via Edge Online


On message boards, naysayers have been claiming for years that PC gaming is "doomed."

But John Welch, CEO and co-founder of Diner Dash house PlayFirst says it's the other way around.

"...I think the console is going to be over as we knew it previously. They’re expensive to make, there is no real need for them," he told Venture Beat.

As the head of a business based on mass market online PC gaming, he's convinced that the hardcore console gamer is increasingly a niche audience.

Ironically, he pointed to the massive success of the Nintendo Wii as proof that console gaming is on its last leg.

"I think the biggest proof point in the death of consoles in my thesis is the Wii," he said. "The most successful, most difficult to acquire console in this generation is at least a generation old in hardware.

"The advances are in software and peripherals. Why do you need a box for that? If the real expansion is occurring because of what Nintendo has done, why do we even need a console?"

He said that technology on par with the Wii's could be implemented in "your average set top box."

Welch continued, "How much would it cost to integrate Wii-like technology into a set top box, if anything even needs to be specialized? What we really need are more standards around the input devices."

Welch's comments are in line with those of fellow online exec Alex St. John, the head of WildTangent.

“The console era is fading rapidly because graphics are no longer the differentiator: people are looking for other things like community or new types of input," St. John recently told Edge.

Thats one helluva set top box.

Seriously though I think he's wrong. The majority of people aren't as "hardcore" as they like to think, and thats why they're satisfied with the lower performance of the xbox/ps3 for the convenience of no installations, incompatibility etc.

There is also developer support to consider, people tend to go for consoles for the games, and developers decide to go for the hacker/piracy (relatively) free options of consoles.

Finally there's value for money, if Sony and Ms are losing money on hardware you're clearly getting more than the same amount of money spent on a pc.

I do think Pc gaming is superior to console gaming though.

Well John, I have "no real need" for Diner Dash. Hows that?! :cool:
Judging from the sales of XBOX360, those supposed hardcore gamers are still buying stuff. Hardly a niche.

I much prefer consoles to gaming on the PC. That's not to say I've not played games on my PC but I just find consoles to be a lot less hassle.

I want to drop a game into the machine and get playing. I'm willing to take lesser graphics as long as playability is good. I don't want to be installing the latest patches from the game manufacturer, or the latest drivers from ATI or Nvidia, or worry about DirectX9/10.

I wouldn't say consoles are niché but instead a preference, just like DS or PSP, iPod or Zen or Tea or Coffee. From either side of the fence I wish people like John Welch could just accept that as individuals we have individual preferences and we don't need to be constantly told that consoles are better than PCs for gaming, and vice versa.

I think the reason the wii is so populour is the gameplay, maybie? Why would people buy it cos its worse?

I really dislike playing games on pc... if you want to play games that can match a console you looking to spend at least 6 times the cost of xbox 360, and there's all the hassle of compatability... the only time i play on pc is on dreamcast emulator nulldc, and a hacked console can offer a lot of the extra features you normally need a pc for

Consoles also relate better to a wider range of people, the console won't die for a long time, so go stick a dildo up your ass mr article person sir lol

i always disagree with the person who says "it cost x times as much to get y console quality" out of their pc, in fact it usually takes about the same

i enjoy playing games on my nearly 3 year old pc, why? because i cannot afford a 360 / ps3, and why bother cause in most cases my pc will do mostly the same job

not trying to start an argument, but if my 1.9ghz athlon xp, 1 gig of ram and a bfg geforce 6600GT can run NFS carbon @ 1280x1024 @ ~50 fps, what the hell is wrong with your pc it sucks soooo bad it cant bitch slap a 360

now t o the article...

they have always been expensive, the goal is to sell at a loss, and make it up in software sales so you can beat the other guys

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As the head of a business based on mass market online PC gaming

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as the head of an imaginary blah blah blah ... online pc gaming is more of a niche market, one either try to sell someone a service that noone needs, or your a mmo

doesnt sound like someone id be reporting an opinion about future trends to me

also he doesnt have much of a clue, sure the wii is basicly a juiced up gamepube, but its using this gens hardware

its also not that hard to acquire, dunno where he got his stats but its not xmas 2007 any more

also your "average set top box" barley has any cpu power in it, a lot out there barley need more than a 32 bit 33mhz cpu, with a dedicated video codec, its akin to a cd player, so is he suggesting that we can do wii quality on a playstation, or double the cost of already expensive "set top boxes" to add functionality that only a margin of the users would actually ever think about wanting

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Welch's comments are in line with those of fellow online exec Alex St. John, the head of WildTangent

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wow Wild Tangent, that crap is still around? theres someone who NAILED the future ... of viruses and spy ware, while taking forever to deliver "on demand" barley better than n64 homebrew

sigh

No need for consoles? Nonsense! I will always be a console guy. I never liked PC gaming and will always prefer having consoles. Ever since having an NES I've felt that way.

I'll stick to consoles.
If they die, then I stop playing.

While I could make my PC capable of doing all the things consoles can do, I won't. Why? Well, I love my PC, but unlike my PC, I can pack up any console, and take it to a buddies house. Also, if they added all the stuff to a PC, then they would completely over charge all the people who couldn't do it themselves. I had some other reasons, but I'm too lazy to try and remember them.

I think the end of consoles is coming soon. It won't be long before people realize that that new TV set that they bought can be hooked up to their PC. People are going to realize that its stupid to wait outside in the cold for a box when you already have a box that can do more at home. Why waste time and money on redundant hardware that does less?

PC's have more games. PC's can do more. PC's have more inputs (controllers, keyboards, etc.). I even have a 360 controller I use for some games. Consoles are expensive 4-5 year machines. PC's last longer. PC games are even cheaper. Sure it will take a generation or two but it will come. Consoles are starting to behave more and more like PC's. To me, that's a sign of the end of consoles.

Plus, let's face it, PC's trump any console in terms of homebrew.

I don't think console gaming will die anytime soon. I'm alittle bias because I much preffer consoles to PC for gaming. There are three schools of people 1. console 2. PC 3. Cross platform. I use the PC for RTS games(starcraft, C&C) and recently Spore which is a pretty good game. I would rather sit down and pop a game in my 360 with my wireless 360 controller and maybe half to install a patch on the disk to make the game play(rarely but NHL '09 made me) and jam out with out having to worry about drivers or upgrading my hardware or installs for that matter althoigh that is the lesser of the problems.

On another point I know many gamers that have no clue what to do with or on a computer. they want the plug and play. it's a matter of convenice and I can't really blame them for it. I know I'm not the only person who knows someone thats technologicaly challenged.

I do agree with agenericperson that once people realize thier hi-def tv has a VGA port and can be used as a huge kicka$$ monitor that they will use the PC more for gaming though. I know I enjoy it more :)

Sorry for any typos but I've been drinkin some bombas of guinness at the bar this evening.

Edit:
I almost forgot that I think console gaming is better for when you have people over hangin out to play multiplayer games on expecially sports, fighting and split screen shooters. Unless of corse you have multiple monitors or a bunch of usb game controllers you hook up but i'd still much preffer good old fashion offline hangin out with your friends at the house gaming on a console than a PC, that just the opionion of one Chuck though.

the problem is that consoles are becoming a glorified computer. We are not to far before you really can't tell the difference between the two. Every new console looks more and more pc like that eventually there will be no need. Granted though I see companies milking people into PC/Console systems in the future. My college now has a pure computer lab running linux on ps3s as the tower. Its weird to go in there but it just seems like we being tricked by corporations with this "PC and console" debates.

You can apply the same logic to PC's IMHO. Consoles now support blue tooth keyboards and most USB keyboards and mice (mouses?). With the PS3 supporting linux officially, you can get your basic web browsing, email, and even Openoffice fix right in your own living room. So basically there is "No Real Need" for pc's either.

But people still have both a PC and a console. Why? Because some people find consoles better for gaming, yet find Pc's easier to do schoolwork or office work on.

Ofcourse there are always those games which are better on PC's..

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Originally Posted by agenericperson

Consoles are expensive 4-5 year machines. PC's last longer.

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If you comply with FITS recommendations then PC's have a 3-4 year life cycle, and that's for business use. Most of the PC gamers I know are cycling through hardware within 18 months to keep up with the latest PC games.

Besides, you can't just pick up a PC game and head round to your friend's as easy as you can with a console game. You need to hope his hardware specs are as good, or better, than your own and that the game is compatible with his system. that's far too much messing about. That would never have been acceptable in the Streetfighter 2/SNES days.

i dunno where your getting your "for business use" stats from

its not uncommon to walk into a place and see ~8 year old machines operating perfectly fine for their simple word oriented tasks

and servers get even older, we run on a hp system that was last upgraded in 1997, why even bother upgrading that, the stupid thing handles its load with power to spare

and again i run a 3 year old computer, the only new game i havent been able to run was COD4 cause it wants a dual core, and if you really want to get down to it, ive really had the machine longer than that, in 05 i just dropped in a 80$ chip and some ram

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Originally Posted by osgeld

i dunno where your getting your "for business use" stats from

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From the official procedures I have to follow as IT manager following the FITS recommendations in one of the UK's largest computing educational facilities.

FITS stands for Framework for ICT Technical Support and it is based on the IT Infrastructure Library (ITIL), the most widely accepted approach to IT service management in the world.

http://www.itil-officialsite.com/home/home.asp

I agree it's not uncommon to see 8 year old PCs running "simple" word orientated task, but we're talking gaming rigs and as there is no recommended strategy for those I use the business PCs, assuming a lesser specification, as an example to highlight my point.

Yeah, in the company that i'm one of the IT for, we run our servers almost until they die, then we dump them into a VM, and keep running them. Probabl the only reason we go to VMs instead of just repairing the servers, is to save electricity, manage our physical footprint (rented rack space in a data center), and reduce company overhead. There's no such thing as a "useless old server" in a company. And as for the situation of the clients... well... let's just say our technology isn't what you'd call bleeding edge, and we're one of the leading communications companies in the Albertan Oilfield industry. ONLY if the machines -need- to be fast, and a format wont speed it up any, will we replace the hardware, ever.

tl;dr mistac is mistaken, servers never grow old, and it's not uncommon for client machines to be ballpark 1000-1500mhz.

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Originally Posted by phrozenfeonix

mistac is mistaken, servers never grow old, and it's not uncommon for client machines to be ballpark 1000-1500mhz.

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I'm afraid you're mistaken, I didn't mention servers. I was talking about the RECOMMENDED life cycle of a business PC as laid out by professionals in the business. The point being business PCs are usable, for longer, than gaming PCs, assuming no upgrade takes place.

My original post was referring to a comment made that consoles were useful for 4-5 years and PCs last longer. PCs do last longer but in order to play the latest games they will no doubt require some upgrades, video cards, ram, even Operating System, etc and the cost can be easily equal to if not greater than a new console.

For anyone familiar with the BBC sitcom, Only Fools and Horses, the gaming PC is the electronic equivalent to Trigger's broom.

Hopefully I've made myself clearer this time and no one will feel the necessity to jump on me because of a misinterpretation between what's recommended and what actually happens.

Yet they forget that Consoles carry a different culture of people than the PC gaming culture. Consoles are easier targets for children since its more user friendly and with all those crazy accessories(toys) for children I doubt the console industry will ever get lost(huge market). People like to claim the gap between console and pc are merging but I doubt that because if people right now are confused about 1080i and p you really think they would prefer being confused about which vid card to use(install). Just face the facts that they both offer different experiences as well.

on a pc: windows/linux/macs you have to install the game. and maybe you have to upgrade your software/hardware and that is not free =( (eh hardware hehe) but on a console you just put the game in play and thats easy =D. im still playing pc games though

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Originally Posted by mistac

I was talking about the RECOMMENDED life cycle of a business PC as laid out by professionals in the business.

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yea these professionals are the same jackasses that sell you the same word processor every 3 years JUST so you can manage simple task's that havent changed since before the PC

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My original post was referring to a comment made that consoles were useful for 4-5 years and PCs last longer. PCs do last longer but in order to play the latest games they will no doubt require some upgrades, video cards, ram, even Operating System, etc and the cost can be easily equal to if not greater than a new console.

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and i call bull, ive had my machine since 2003 and have dropped

80$ in a cpu
100$ in ram
100$ in video

and it runs mostly the same games as a 360

minus the cpu power its better than a 360 in ram, audio, AND video

and thats half the cost of a 360 when it came out

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For anyone familiar with the BBC sitcom, Only Fools and Horses, the gaming PC is the electronic equivalent to Trigger's broom.

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never heard of it, see here on the internet we could be from any number of places that did not grow up on the BBC as our government provided propaganda machine

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Hopefully I've made myself clearer this time and no one will feel the necessity to jump on me because of a misinterpretation between what's recommended and what actually happens.

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you did, you stated some research that is truly meaningless in the REAL world and backed it up with some obsucre TV show most have never heard of

point well taken :rofl:

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Originally Posted by kjetil1991

on a pc: windows/linux/macs you have to install the game. and maybe you have to upgrade your software/hardware and that is not free =( (eh hardware hehe) but on a console you just put the game in play and thats easy =D. im still playing pc games though

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give it time my friend

IF the ps3 wasnt the neo-geo of its day you would be installing software on your 360, or at least swapping disks

you still have to have some software updates if you want to play online (same as pc)

and there currently are hardware options for your beloved consoles ... same as pc you dont have to have them, but if your stock (small) disk is too full of crap you cant live without, you MUST upgrade hardware

they are converging, this isnt a 32 bit 66mhz 486 with a 540mb disk and cd rom vs a 16 bit 7mhz sega anymore, they are SO close that at one point were going to snap back to the days of the adam and c-64

is it a computer with games? or a game with a keyboard ...

Personally I couldn't see me and my friends crowding around my computer to play Rockband. Sure if I had the money for an HDTV it might be alright. But then I'm sure the specs would be insane for no reason then I'd have to upgrade my PC just to play it. (I'm still running a 2.4ghz Athlon 3700+, just upgraded video to a Geforce 7600GS for $100) It runs most recent games "decently" but it's never going to compare to a hardcore gaming PC. I love sitting around on a console and just playing a nice co-op game or busting out a quick game of this or that. It's just easier. PC can be a hassle but as with most people RTS is for PC gaming. I don't think consoles have any reason to die off, but but nor will PC's.

I will always stay with my consoles for video gaming until... Computer companies make controllers and addons work without frivoulous drivers, Game disks can be dropped into a drive and just run (no stupid installation or setup/install). They make antipiracy software work without hindering my ability to play because it can't detect if it is the correct cd(it's really annoying when you have the right cd in and it still complains). bluetooth adapters and controllers are are easy to connect and reconnect easily even when batteries die. They give us only one set of requirements on the game box and those requirements actually play the game really well. drivers for new required hardware are easy to install and don't complain or error a fie.

obviously to complete these requirements different companies may have to work together. probably won't happen.

also if console makers do stupid stuff to make gaming difficult to set up then I'll dump them for that too.

Frankly I want to be able to enjoy playing games and not waste time setting them up. consoles are really easy in that aspect even the ps3 doesn't require that much setup process unless you are going high def with linux or something like that. in that case though it is your fault for making it complicated.

simplify simplify, simplify!

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Originally Posted by osgeld

never heard of it, see here on the internet we could be from any number of places that did not grow up on the BBC as our government provided propaganda machine

you did, you stated some research that is truly meaningless in the REAL world and backed it up with some obsucre TV show most have never heard of

point well taken :rofl:

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Typical response from a forum troll. ITIL is a world-wide recognised certification, and is accepted as Best Practice in a majority of large organisations. For most of these organisations an ITIL certification is required if you want to make it to management level in the ICT business. That's REAL world. Maybe your real world consists of "repairing" PCs for your friends and neighbours, but in the real world I work in, managing support for 50,000+ users requires a level of understanding of certain best practice methods. Please don't think I just jumped in without any practical knowledge. Before moving into management I did my time as a computer engineer for companies responsible for the standards in technology you're using right now, including IBM. It's possible some of my research/work is sitting inside your PC right now.

Let me explain Trigger's broom to see if your limited world view can grasp it.

Trigger tells everyone about a medal he received from the local council for owning the same broom for twenty years, despite the fact that it has actually had 17 new heads and 14 new handles in that time.

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Originally Posted by osgeld

and i call bull, ive had my machine since 2003 and have dropped

80$ in a cpu
100$ in ram
100$ in video

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Therefore it is not the same machine you started with, what you have in fact is Trigger's broom.

Thank you for proving my point. :rofl:

I'm not going to waste any more of my time debating on this thread, I've had my say and I'll leave it at that. Thank you for your time Osgeld.

To be clear, first I am a computer technician.
I understand the hardware very well.
There is no way that a 3 year old pc runing a $100 video card
is even remotely comparable to a 360.
A console is dedicated to the display of graphics and running geometric and physics calculations.
A pc is designed to run a variety of other tasks, including running your resource hogging OS.
I used to play games on my pc but it is a huge hassle to deal with.
And to run games that come even close to looking like they do on a ps3 would take an expensive graphics card. I have a duel core 3.0 ghz cpu 2 gigs of DDR2 800 mhz and a 256 meg graphics card. And all of this does not allow me to run games that look as good as the ps3.
Now I have seen many different console fanboys, and it looks like you are a PC fanboy.
There is no need for a flame war or to insult other people for their opinions.

@osgeld

I was just pointing out literal hardware costs its pretty obvious you get more tech for your money with a console than a pc.

Don't deny it, I can get an xbox 360 for £140, good luck getting a pc for that price.

And btw, this website is based in the UK, so it isn't odd to quote a show from here. And lol at calling the bbc propaganda, clearly you have no clue about it. Especially when you consider the rubbish that comes out of "independant" media.