Iris Update (Just future progress discussion)

*Just a note, This is more discussion, Less news post. No need to post this as news on other sites*

Ok anyways last night I was having trouble sleeping so I got to start thinking about the next iris (specialy after sniper showed me shots of his new map).

I realise I really need to get a new build out because alot of moders are waiting on me before they can post their mods. So I think I will probably get cracking soon as i get back from break and put lesser time into money64 (like maybe 4 days iris, 2 days monkey, 1 day for me).

While up thinking, I was going over what I feel are big problems to iris that need to be upgraded. The two major ones are Controlls & AI. There are a few more things but thies two need to be solved the most.

So on the controll front. I realised last night that iris needs to evolve into more then doom like it is now. It needs to allow people to see all over so they can shoot people above & below with ease. Yet I am not sure what is the best setup. So I've desided to try getting some help from a few designer friends to hammer out 1-2 of the best controll setups that not only work well on the psp but also can make iris great. Sadly I've also desided to go against allowing custom controlls (if there is, its minimul and not full custom controlls). I know this sucks but the psp is limited on buttons and this would mean the difference between iris becoming coded arms (ok with alot of bad controlls) or Syphon filter (great controlls that fit the game). Once we figure something out we will post it up so people can see & maybe I will make a small modified demo of iris 0.1 so we can see them in action.

The second biggest problem with iris atm is AI. It's discussingly stupid. I know but it was the best i could do in like 3 hours i had. I have been thinking of new methods that would work but there are drawbacks to all. The first is to use quake3 bot setup files but the problem is they are a little over bearing and complex which will probably hurt the performace. The next idea was to install waypoints in every map and a few guide nodes to let the bot navigate the amp. This is very posibly what i might do but it means that map editors must plop thies in but if not there, the ai wont work on the map. So this as well kind of sucks. The best method is to somehow parse out waypoints or some map info from quake 3 bot files but this is hard to do because I dont think there is any solid documentation other then checking though the quake 3 source (which is a bit complicated to read).

So pretty much thoes are the two main things i need to fix. I also have though about doing a few more things to help improve iris as a whole that I will probably do. First being a real menu system (in external tga images so mods can customise the look) with fonts so the game will look better. I'm heavly leaning on the idea of going with the doom/quake style menu (not complex with simple buttons to get though everything). It sure as hell wont be anything complex like unreal2k4. Another thing on the list is fixing clipping & posibly throwing lightmaps back in and droping the use of vertex colors. Lightmaps look 200 million times better even tho they are a little costly. Yet to do lightmaps, map editors will have to run the maps though a tool i will write to make them compatible. I also am thinking to rewrite the weapons setup. So the game uses a 3d weapon, a 3d projectile and a 3d animated explosion. Thies will be specific for each weapon so a moder can make different ones for each. I probably wont add much in the way of extern weapon custumization tho (like to change how it fires and etc). I am also thinking to do some wifi but not sure since I still have problems getting my psp & router to work together.

So that is about it at the moment. The only last thing is I am posibly going to rename the version and consider this 0.2 since there will be alot of changes made & just make the ps2dev compo entry 0.3 (still planning to do this).

So thats about it for my late night thoughts. Any comments or sudgestions people wish to add?

As for a release date. I have no idea. Depends how things go starting next week.

man, someone got out on the wrong side of the bed this morning

so fuc* you. I like Iris

[sarcasm mode ON]
Very useful thought, it keeps us going forward
[sarcasm mode OFF]
Let guys doing work as they want to and showing a lil bit more respect will be appreciated^^

Just ignore byerlyct. He posted from his public school and is just a little kid.

guys no off topic stuff. From this point on. if its not about iris at all. the post is removed (please keep to that sniper).

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Repeat offenders will have their accounts banned.

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If people piss me off on this. There wont be a m64 picture easter egg hunt this weekend

First of all i would like to say i admire your work and think you have done a great job with all of your progressive projects for the psp so far.

I think iris is a good game but, maybe you should design a menu, like story mode and battle... this is once u get a few things fixed, i think you should also focus on one aim at a time, like M64 your tryed to handle too many things :D.

You probably had that in mind already... but anyway cant hurt.

P.S I think you should spend 3 days M64 and 3 days iris because M64 is a good project and if your sucessfull you will enable many games to be played not just once custom made game, but i can understand you must enjoy making your own 3d game for the psp.

And how are you feeling?

not that you asked me, but I think the best setup for controls would be like I use for playing PSPQuake
eg.
anolog nub= look/aim(much easier than buttons)
left trigger= jump/maybe hold to duck.
right trigger= shoot
triangle= forward
cross= backward
square= left
circle= right

the directional buttons can be for actions such as weapon change/item?/zoom?/online hotkey chat functions(in my dreams). this way you can keep moving while able to do anything

basically lefthand fps on pc

anyway can't wait for a release

Ok heres my control scheme. Push down twice to crouch, push up twice to jump.

Nice But im not so sure about the change weap, may be a lil awkward.

But its good.

seriously "my" method for down to change weapon is easy as you can still aim and run, wouldnt want to be stuck in one place trying to equip something better than a frying pan, axe, etc

maybe use select to taunt as it isnt easy to reach but shortly disables controls, so not a major feature

what do you think of the hotkey chat function, i know it's a long way off to wifi but it would be great to be able to quickly chat to online player. you could probably make a system to change the messages for each hotkey in a config file .

sniper, trouble with that method is you cant move and jump at same time, also in a panic you might try to run away but end up just jumping on the spot

go psmonkey

Ya, the select button isnt very far from your thumb. And you gotta think, how often are you gonna change weapons :)

see my last post on page 1

depends if when there is a wide variety of weapons they equip based on power cause sometimes a rocket launcher isnt too practical in a closed enviroment

Quote:

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Originally Posted by accordian boy

what do you think of the hotkey chat function, i know it's a long way off to wifi but it would be great to be able to quickly chat to online player. you could probably make a system to change the messages for each hotkey in a config file .

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VoIP would be even better but that would take a while to implement.

VoIP = Voice Over IP. (live chat like xbox live). The PSP network bandwidth should be able to handle it since its 802.11b.

Yet again that would take quite a bit of time to do. Sure maybe unreal style quick messages would work but kind of suck. :P

here is my idea for controls, it is like a cross from doom-psp and goldeneye for the 64

Analog:
Up= move forward
down= move backwards
Left= look left
Right= look right

R trig= fire
L trig(hold down)= enter free look mode, like on goldeneye,(use analog to look in desired deriction)

x= jump
circle= straf right
square= straf left
triangle= taunt

Dpad:
up=use, open door, turn switch, activate kind of button or veiw map (if added)
left=change weapon
Right=change weapon
down=crouch (press once to crouch, press again to uncrouch)

Start=Pause game/options menu
Select= main menu

glad to see your pushing my expectations PSmonkey,
hell i will be happy as soon as i get a new release of iris however long it takes, or whatever the improvments.
keep up the great work, your the reason i refuse to upgrade from 1.5,i know it works on 2.0+ but i love the no hassle loading of such great games.
ps please please please try to get a release of iris out by 21st april as i live in the uk and socom gets released then. I'm very weak, but i may be able to hold out till may but then monster hunter and katamari come out .... don't make me do it!!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by accordian boy

glad to see your pushing my expectations PSmonkey,
hell i will be happy as soon as i get a new release of iris however long it takes, or whatever the improvments.
keep up the great work, your the reason i refuse to upgrade from 1.5,i know it works on 2.0+ but i love the no hassle loading of such great games.
ps please please please try to get a release of iris out by 21st april as i live in the uk and socom gets released then. I'm very weak, but i may be able to hold out till may but then monster hunter and katamari come out .... don't make me do it!!!!!

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:confused: You mean upgrade?? You can just use MPH Game Loader :D

I dunno. I don't like this game. I've tried it with the star wars mods and all... I just can't get past the sluggish gameplay. Don't get me wrong; it's a better game than I'll ever be able to program in the near future, but I don't like how the main char's legs move faster than he moves. And how analog is the control for all directions.

grinch, shut up

because i live in the uk those games will require 2.60 and as far as i know only the genesis loader runs 2.60, but not the latest release(splinter cell), so for current loaders it doesnt seem likely.

i am sure some genius will find a way
(but im no genius )


sorry to go off topic but im getting no response in the thread (psp help: "run 2.0 umd video on 1.5")
anyone got ideas about running UMD videos which require updates through MPH loader, is it possible

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grin.ch

I dunno. I don't like this game. I've tried it with the star wars mods and all... I just can't get past the sluggish gameplay. Don't get me wrong; it's a better game than I'll ever be able to program in the near future, but I don't like how the main char's legs move faster than he moves. And how analog is the control for all directions.

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i think the first version was more of a proof of concept and the next release will be better.

I like the control scheme on Syphon Filter : DM. If there was a way to implement those controls somehow into Iris, that would work out great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lunasicc

I like the control scheme on Syphon Filter : DM. If there was a way to implement those controls somehow into Iris, that would work out great.

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could you say what the controls are for syphon filter are because i dont have the game.

just hoping for more model format support! Skeleton support would greatly improve animation.

sorry sniper but i would rather have the anolog stick to move not the t pad
plus the t pad is better use for other thing like zoom ect
i personally like how the veiwing is in socom (kind of ) and the controls are ok
but maybe syphon filter is better but i dont got it
psmonkey ill see if i could thing of something

I believe for model support, we'd only be able to use one format and MD3 or MD2 (for props)

but you can have multiple character model formats... thats just too damned congested and klunky...

Nice Youre Going To Get Iris Progress Thanx So Much (cant Wait 4 Halo Mod) And Youre Still Going To Get Some Progress On Monkey64 Great Job And Thanx Much

psmonkey you think youll be able to add the feature wich gives you the chance to shoot while running

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nightmare666

psmonkey you think youll be able to add the feature wich gives you the chance to shoot while running

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Hah i think he already fixed that on his privet build

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nightmare666

psmonkey you think youll be able to add the feature wich gives you the chance to shoot while running

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Yes, It will look ugly but it will be there.

Next build is still Quake 2 models. Build after that (for compo) will be q3 bone models / Hl bone models.

Not fully sure how i will work that out.

Quake 3 bone models? you mean you are actualy going to dig into the MD4 format?

You know it was never finished by Id... if they did finish it, they never released the source.

One fella by the name of Gongo in the QuakeSRC.org community managed to get it working in Quake 3, but there are no exporters for MD4... so he had to base his converter of of SMK!, which used HL(1 and 2)'s SMDs (an uncompiled .mdl model) to animate... the most logical thing here would be to ONLY support MD4 as its extreamly easy to convert HL1 models into MD4...

Iris is going to be (in my opinion) one of the best homebrew games, heck, i cant wait till the final release but i know thats going to be a LONG time from now most likely, but theres also some good mods in the making like Halo and Starwars, heck if i knew how to do any of the stuff for iris, id make a DooM mod :P, but thats just me, anyways, Keep up the great work PSmonkey!!

The controls on Syphon Filter are sort of like the one Sniper posted back in page one. But instead of using the dpad to look, you would use the joystick. To change weapons, you would press right on the dpad. The down on the dpad you could use to duck and up could be used to jump. The left dpad could be Misc.

Ill try to get a picture up for a better idea.

Edit: Heres my poor attempt for a control scheme. Thanks to Sniper for the original picture.

Not bad..I'm liking it. I like the little "Voice chat" idea...but I thinking your getting ahead of yourself!

Would it not make sence to have the directional buttons and command buttons the other way around?

Not really, how else are you going to aim and move at the same time?

A while ago monkey discussed somthing about UT models. I didnt think that would be supported... anyway did anything ever become of that idea?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1timeuser

A while ago monkey discussed somthing about UT models. I didnt think that would be supported... anyway did anything ever become of that idea?

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Actualy I ment Unreal Bsp maps but i've put too much into building iris around quake 3 bsp. So i think i will keep it this way.

Once again, this will be the greates homebrew game ever. I like how you're completely working out everything to get it perfect before jumping into something huge like wifi. I wait patiently for future releases. :)

Keep up the good work and good luck. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lunasicc

The controls on Syphon Filter are sort of like the one Sniper posted back in page one. But instead of using the dpad to look, you would use the joystick. To change weapons, you would press right on the dpad. The down on the dpad you could use to duck and up could be used to jump. The left dpad could be Misc.

Ill try to get a picture up for a better idea.

Edit: Heres my poor attempt for a control scheme. Thanks to Sniper for the original picture.

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so similar to the controls on sw battlefront 2, i think i like that idea or the idea i came up with:

Analog:
Up= move forward
down= move backwards
Left= look left
Right= look right

R trig= fire
L trig(hold down)= enter free look mode

x= jump
circle= straf right
square= straf left
triangle= taunt

Dpad:
up=use, open door, turn switch, activate kind of button or veiw map (if added)
left=change weapon
Right=change weapon
down=crouch (press once to crouch, press again to uncrouch)

Start=Pause game/options menu
Select= main menu

yeah locking characters may be cool but then it wouldnt be much of a chalange when play against live player
i think
but i dont like the idea of walking with the triangle i would rather move with the control stick as is now and to look up and down just use freelook ,like when sniping and stuff cause it would be kind of hard to look up and down wile in a quick fight with someone cause the only time you look up in halo is when eather they are to far or they jump

ps:i pm you sniper please reply

BigMace, yea Syphon Filters controls are very much like Battlefront. But wouldn't it be better to be able to look up and down while moving? It would be easy dogding and avoiding bullets when the enemy has higher grounds than you. Taunting shouldnt be that important. Maybe you should be able to taunt when you are directly over your opponent and press a button; sort of like in Socom: Fireteam Bravo.