Have You Noticed?

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April 14th, 2006, 01:27
wraggster

Have You Noticed?

First off a quick note about the issues with PS2Dev/Fluff over the selling of homebrew, first off i think its better that homebrew stay free but i can fully understand that the amount of work coders put in and the desire to get something back via donations etc.

anyway onto the reason why i posted this.

Theres a really disturbing amount of sites charging people (and yes you are getting took to the cleaners) for downloads, removal of ads and other reasons.

Some of these sites have just homebrew on their servers yet they are charging silly money for people to download off them.

Just remember that someone is making a lot of money off your membership and for what, the PSP scene is for free and totally free, dont be suckered into paying money to download, forum priveldges (cant spell :p) or removal of ads.

Because at the end of the day they are just getting very rich off people who may not realise that its all for free.

Im not going to link to any of the sites but the list is a long one, the only way to stop them is to withdraw your cash from them and protest or boycott till they change.
April 14th, 2006, 01:41
Martin

It's silly indeed. Greed is what it is!
April 14th, 2006, 01:54
babu

wraggster: usually when it comes to opnions, we very rarely share any (iso,...). But i'am proud to say we finnaly found one ^_^. Making money like this is just wrong, lets hope they change their ways.
April 14th, 2006, 02:14
PSP3D

Nice one Wraggstar, my thoughts exactly.
April 14th, 2006, 02:48
mog

It's good that most homebrew is free...
But the way i see it, its a bit like real software companies... If people use their software without paying, they are less likely to bother making something better...
Maybe it would be better if some homebrew actually costed a small amount of money, then maybe they would be more serious about making their software better, instead of just getting bored and not updating.

If I had to pay to use mph's loader then it would be more likely that mph would try to fix them to actually work on 1.00 psps. Or if was paying for snes9x psp, then when I ask if it would be posible to fix the ff6 graphical glitches that came in with their new version, there would be a greater chance of it happening. ;)

In a more ideal world, people would actually bother donating to coders that spent months of their free time developing stuff... but i dont think many people bother even giving a quick fiver over paypal for a piece of software they will use constantly for a few years.
April 14th, 2006, 03:40
DraconumPB

ok, take the example of sectionz.com...

it's a musician/producer site, letting people upload music for free and let other people download it as well as offer reviews. (much like uploading homebrew)

For a premium membership of $25 a year, artists get an email @sectionz.com, a special URL (their-name.sectionz.com), a flash player for the music, etc. and some other features like review replying and deleting and so forth. it doesn't cost anything to offer these features but they are incentive to support the community. It's run by one guy who is married with a kid and had to quit his job to support the site, and other than a small amount of ads (basically one banner-size google ad at the top of the site).

When the server was on the verge of dying, he had to ask for donations to be able to afford a new one... but still, with all this, he - by necessity - has to still do web design commissions on the side to support his family...

So, all I'm saying is this - Z, the owner, is making ad-money off the site, even though the content of the site is music that we upload and don't get paid for. In fact, many of us pay to be able to have extra features.... but still, we're just supporting the existance of the site. There's nothing wrong with it.

Now, that's ONE site. Some sites might be making a killing off it.. which would be a different story.
April 14th, 2006, 03:40
pakkman781

Yeah, It's pretty stupid...

Just comes to prove, that your site really is the best :D
April 14th, 2006, 05:59
felonyr301

some people charge like no tomorrow seriously and mog is right people tend to work harder for money than free even if its their passion ...
April 14th, 2006, 06:31
quzar

So ALL the ads on this site are absolutely necessary because if a single one was taken down someone would end up losing money by putting this site together?
April 14th, 2006, 06:58
MaxSMoke

I love this site, it's really great, but this news post comes off just a bit like the Pot calling the Kettle Black. After all, this website is supported pretty heavily by Lik Sang and HK Success, neither of which are very good companies and you are unabashedly positive about everything they sell. You mention nearly every PSP game they sell, and all of their accessories. And there's ads everywhere. Most of the products I've purchased from them have been sub-par at best and the shipping is outrageous. I know Hong Kong is along ways from the US, but there's no excuse for $30 shipping just to deliver a 2 ounce game. Nor is there any excuse in this day and age for any kind of shipping to take 5 weeks.

Of course, this website is still worlds better then sites that actually force people to pay for free news, that's just unforgivably greedy. That's truly a new low in exploitation on the part of other news websites. But that's kind like saying I'd rather be robbed, then be shot in the face and then robbed.

Sorry man, just giving you a little perspective.
April 14th, 2006, 07:31
stotheamuel

tssk tssk

but greed isnt just one of the greatest characters on fma

but whats there to do

ill tell u go to dcemu....:)
April 14th, 2006, 08:20
Martin

Quote:

Originally Posted by quzar

So ALL the ads on this site are absolutely necessary because if a single one was taken down someone would end up losing money by putting this site together?

Our ads are necessary to keep the network alive. We have 4 high end dedicated servers to pay for.

And viewing ads is not exactly the same thing as asking someone to pay for downloads. Or pay to remove ads. Sour apples and sweet oranges. ;)
April 14th, 2006, 10:25
.:PSP1.0:.

Tsk tsk.. charging for homebrew.. what a absolute discrace shame on those other sites.. also another reason why i love DCEMU so much! ;)
April 14th, 2006, 11:42
gotmilk0112

BALDERDASH!!!! i dont know who the heck would make people friggin PAY for little home made games on thier psp. i mean, are people really THAT greedy?? and if they says thing like: but i have to pay the bandwith blablabla i would say well u can just put some ads on ur site. :P
April 14th, 2006, 13:10
chickenclaws

it is very much so true!
April 14th, 2006, 15:28
DraconumPB

Quote:

Originally Posted by quzar

So ALL the ads on this site are absolutely necessary because if a single one was taken down someone would end up losing money by putting this site together?

I don't think anybody said that.. for starters.

I can't speak to how many ads are necessary because I honestly don't know. I have no idea how much money they bring in nor the traffic of the site itself.

But here's the thing. It sounds like Wragg spends alot of time on this site. So, I don't know if he has another job or not beyond being a webmaster.. this might be his source of income.

REGARDLESS however, running a high-bandwidth and high-storage (because this site gets alot of traffic) site DOES cost money, besides the obvious time-committment. Either a server is involved ($$$$) or paid hosting, in either case you have to pay for the server somehow. Also, if the server is owned, there's the issue of paying for a good enough connection to the 'net to support the bandwidth used.

Anyway, running a big site like DCEmu isn't cheap... I know.. being a webmaster.... if I had the same traffic as DCEmu and put as much time into my site as Wragg does with the DCEmu network, I would probably want some ad revenue due to the fact that I might very well likely have to quit either college or my job to handle it.
April 14th, 2006, 15:46
DraconumPB

and about paying for homebrew, how the heck is that any different than a company selling its own software or an artist selling his own music? it just depends how much someone is willing to pay for it. there is NO cardinal rule of homebrew (which is NO DIFFERENT from any other kind of software except that it's done on a system that doesn't officially support it) that states that it has to be free. While I totally support this site and Wrag and Martin to the end, I sometimes disagree when wrag downplays the legitimacy of selling homebrew (that is, if YOU made it).

The difference comes when selling the homebrew is breaking the law. This is when the author of the homebrew uses Open-source code or someone else' non-open-source code (which would be a feat, I'm sure) and then sells the product WITHOUT making it open-source.

Here is, however, what IS legal regarding software based on other open-source software:

You can charge for open-source software, even if its based on someone else's open-source software. But, you MUST (!!!!) release your software under the SAME LICENSE as the original, from which the derivitive is taken from.. that means, anybody who pays to use your software must be able to recieve the source-code as well as have any other privileges that users of open-source software recieve. It is perfectly legal for THEM, after having paid to use your software, modify it and sell THEIR version to someone else, as long as it too retains the same open-source license. Or, they could give it away for free, legally, because it is open-source and since they have the source, they can release it however they want, as long as it stays under the same open-source license.

I could be wrong about this, I'm not OSS scholar, but this is my understanding of it.

The other thing is, to charge for services related to the use of software, while the software itself remains free, is also perfectly legal, as long as that software has the proper license itself (meaning, say, if PSIX is based on open source code, the source for PSIX must be made availible without question due to what I said earlier. If PSIX is NOT based on open source code, then fluff can do whatever he wants with it. Absolutely and completely anything, legally and, frankly, without blame. Regardless, to charge for services such as support, priority updates, beta testing privileges, etc. is COMPLETELY legal and is a COMMON PRACTICE among the software world. Look at Red Hat Linux...)

I've said this before, also, that no homebrew dev deserves to be forced into providing their work in a 'certain way'. If you prefer, they can simply not offer it at all, thankyouverymuch! They're doing a service just by doing what they do, if they want to charge for it, they certainly have the moral right to do so (assuming their code and whatnot is provided in a legal way, doesn't violate copyright law, and so forth). That's like walking up to a guy painting portraits on the street and claiming that he needs to do yours for free, just 'cause it isn't costing him money to do it. It costs his time though! honestly, it bugs me when people think that they deserve something that they really don't, or have these ideals like, "all software should be offered for free to everybody". It's nice when people give you free stuff but you can't blame them when they decline....

anyway, sorry for all the caps, I was just trying to accentuate certain points and I was too lazy to 'bold' things haha ;)
April 14th, 2006, 16:24
wowfan

and the dead horse is back

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxSMoke

I love this site, it's really great, but this news post comes off just a bit like the Pot calling the Kettle Black. After all, this website is supported pretty heavily by Lik Sang and HK Success, neither of which are very good companies and you are unabashedly positive about everything they sell. You mention nearly every PSP game they sell, and all of their accessories. And there's ads everywhere. Most of the products I've purchased from them have been sub-par at best and the shipping is outrageous. I know Hong Kong is along ways from the US, but there's no excuse for $30 shipping just to deliver a 2 ounce game. Nor is there any excuse in this day and age for any kind of shipping to take 5 weeks.

Of course, this website is still worlds better then sites that actually force people to pay for free news, that's just unforgivably greedy. That's truly a new low in exploitation on the part of other news websites. But that's kind like saying I'd rather be robbed, then be shot in the face and then robbed.

Sorry man, just giving you a little perspective.

I didn't think the horse would be brought back to be beaten again, but it seems some horse always comes back in time here.

I will agree with MaxSmoke, this sounds a lot like the pot calling the kettle black. We don't even know how much wraggster is making on the advertisements that literally plague this site. Every single one of the products and games he posts about (from slow shipping and expensive companies) contains an affiliate id, making him more affiliate commission money at the expense of you. The first thing you see when you load up psp-news' front page is no news, just huge google advertisements.

You are making money on this site wraggster, this is not just a hobby like you claim it to be. seems that once again.. gun, shoot, foot.
April 14th, 2006, 16:38
stotheamuel

yea... draconumPB has a point

things like m64 and pacmanfan's ps1 emulator.. i would pay as much as 5 dollars for

but still i dont think 90% of homebrew should cost money

and about the ads... ads are no big deal... i didnt ever notice ads on the site until reading this
April 14th, 2006, 16:40
DraconumPB

Quote:

After all, this website is supported pretty heavily by Lik Sang and HK Success, neither of which are very good companies and you are unabashedly positive about everything they sell.

That is true.

But... who cares? If a webmaster wants to do that, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's a common internet practice and a legitimate method of both advertising and making ad-revenue.

The best claim you could probably make regarding this issue is to say that it is annoying to visitors of the site. Maybe it diminishes the appeal to a degree. But it's not like, because a website has become less appealing to you, that you've been harmed in any way... and like you said, it's better than alot of the other websites out there which just continue to reach new lows in order to make cash. I wouldn't really consider this a 'low', however, because like I said, it's a legitimate practice and I can't see what else you can say about it.

What wragg seems to be complaining about in the first place is websites that require people to actually shore up the cash for things that, typically, are free. ( I think. ) He isn't saying, "Wow, look how much money those sites are making off of you because of the ads." So, I think what you're saying about pots and kettles is really kind of a non-sequitor.

One last thing to DCEmu's credit.... while I've never been interested in pruchasing from Lik-Sang or HKSuccess, Play-asia, which wragg has also displayed promotions for, is a VERY GOOD company in my experience. I have ordered two PSP games from there, both imports (obviously) and the shipping for both was $3 (to the US from hong kong.) It took a few weeks but that's to be expected, I picked the cheapest shipping option. I was very happy with them.
April 14th, 2006, 16:43
Darksaviour69

DraconumPB: your are refereing to GPL Licence. it only counts if the original released the sourcewith that licence (with is like 95% of the time)

wraggs does have a job, and hes does all this work in his spare time. Also those adds do not bring in alot of money. You only get money when someone clicks on an adds (google and yahoo adds).

Quote:

...contains an affiliate id, making him more affiliate commission money at the expense of you.

how is it at the expense of you, its the same price with or without the affiliate id, and again it only works is someone buys the product straight from that link, ie if you go to the site via his link and then come back later via the front door of the website, he gets nothing.

Quote:

Pot calling the Kettle Black

how, we don't ask any money of the users?
April 14th, 2006, 17:10
DraconumPB

Good point, like I said, I'm no OSS scholar so thanks for the clear-up. I've just worked with people who are =p
April 14th, 2006, 17:12
Darksaviour69

well what you said is mostly right, but techicaly not all open source has to be GPL
April 14th, 2006, 18:00
quzar

I just don't see a big difference between a site with adverts and one without that asks for money. If you would rather see the ads then by all means use that site, if not they are offering a somewhat wanted alternative
April 14th, 2006, 20:12
vettacossx

pshh when i load up psp-news...i see just that ...psp news from the most reliable network FOR psp-news..period i get the feeling some people dont understand the 3 main things "any" relationship consist of
trust
respect
and communication
dcemu is not only one of the only site too COVER EVERY ASPECT OF EVERY SINGLE CONSOLE AS IT HAPPENS! and more than that they bother too take the time too ALLOW YOU AN OPPINION! unless you are a major contributer then i guess we should have some RESPECT and maybe appreciate the COMMUNICATION wraggster supplys on a DAILEY BASIS and TRUST that he will CONTINUE TO BE THE GR8 WEBMASTER THAT HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN IN THE PAST AND GR8 PERSON AS WELL people who keep our site clean and organized like the moderators deserve our respect!!
if not for guys like kaiser making his guide 2 homebrew and all the small things like keeping post in-line,,,we would be a mess so
TOO ALL IT APPLYS VETTACOSSX THAKS ALL THE PEOPLE WHO ARE A POSITIVE PART OF WHAT MAKES DCEMU NETWORK TIC!
April 15th, 2006, 11:41
chaos-is-me

Quote:

Originally Posted by quzar

I just don't see a big difference between a site with adverts and one without that asks for money. If you would rather see the ads then by all means use that site, if not they are offering a somewhat wanted alternative

So you would rather pay to see exactly the same news but just with no ads?? Crazy, CRAZY!

The ads take aren't hard to ignore and they help keep this site free, that's the whole point. Anyone that can't possibly browse a website with ads and must have every site commercial free probably shouldn't be using the internet in the first place.

We all know Dcemu is the best.
April 16th, 2006, 09:52
DraconumPB

[insert site name here] may be pretty (well, sort of) but dcemu has depth hehe