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I have at home one of those USB hard drives and was wondering if like the recent Axlen project, there could be a way of first connecting to the hard drive using axlens new cable and also if possible using the said drive as a proper hard drive for the dreamcast where we could somehow have a dreamcast virtual memory.
Is that even remotely possible?
Not through Axlen's cable.
But Dan Potter is/was working on a USB project for such things.
I'm not sure if he's still working on it, as he's bored with the dreamcast right now.
I've given this subject some thought recently. The DC parallel port is not the way to go. Rather, the maple bus would appear better suited. I've spent some time reading the M Bus patent and I believe it could be used to attach a wide variety of mass storage devices. The basic idea is to create a hardware/software interface box that has USB ports on one side and a Maple-Bus (game port) connector on the other end.
The Maple Bus data transfer speed appears to be around 2 megabits per second.
I imagine the box could also be setup to allow attaching USB-Ethernet and wireless devices too.
The basic idea is this:
The Magic Box would consist of the Maple Bus interface hardware, CPU/Ram-Flash/IO and an embedded version of FreeBSD or Linux.Code:
|DC game port|<----cable----|Magic Box - 2-4 USB Ports|<------>Jump Drive; Ethernet; Harddrive; ...
For development I suspect and interface circuit for the Maple Bus and PC could be used.
It's really a bit more complicated than this, but you get the idea.
wow, something must be going around because I was discussing this very thing the other day with some classmates in college. (no, not the technical part) The idea of a hard drive for the DC is intriguing. I say we've got to try it. who's to say it can't be done. let's show the community the genius behind the coders who accomplish it and the video game world that this is THE machine. Dreamcast: the father of XBOX, PS 2, and the GC. they are all off-shoots of what the dreamcast is and was. especially Microsoft and they know it.
A Dreamcast interfaced to a USB PenDrive, is a very revolutionary idea!
Then, using a specialized boot disc, to boot the Dreamcast off the pendrive!
KallistiOS...DOS...SH-Linux...NetBSD...or, whatever!
Dreamcasters could distribute and run software without any need to burn discs! Such a product would induce more coders to jump on the DC scene, no doubt!
;D
But what would I do with the spindles of discs I bought to burn the various versions of every emu on DC, /me considers burning bootleg discs and selling them on ebay. ;)
2 megabits is really slow. Yucky.
Yes, 2 megabits is limiting. I remember booting my 286 PC from a 360k floppy drive. I wonder how that would compare to booting from a maple-connected device.
[quote author=DreamDogg link=board=hardware;num=1105382064;start=0#7 date=01/21/05 at 23:31:50]Yes, 2 megabits is limiting. I remember booting my 286 PC from a 360k floppy drive. I wonder how that would compare to booting from a maple-connected device.[/quote]
Yeah, it would pretty much be a toy to tinker with. The speed is not really suitable for a USB harddrive. As an interface for flash devices it might be okay. So the parallel port would be a better choice, though much more difficult to deal with.
It would be painfully slow I'm sure.
Sounds like the Maple bus is the best method for interfacing the Dreamcast to more data.
With so many competing memory storage formats (USB-Pendrives, SD-Cards, CompactFlash cards, Mini-SD and Memory-Stick cards) on the market now, the possibilities are vast.
Consdering all of these competing memory storage formats, which type would be the easiest to interface to the Maple Bus ?
Man, for the expansion slot NOT being the way to go, that 50mb/s looks very tempting. But I suppose a Maple Bus extension would be easier to code.
A DC Maple Hard drive would be a whole new peripheral. I wonder, would such a device need its own firmware to identify itself on the Maple Bus ?
I was running Dreamcast Linux yesterday, which also accesses the maple bus....
Unfortunately, the DC-Linux project is inactive.
The NetBSD/Dreamcast group, however, is still active (and working on the next version.) Maybe they would have some ideas/input on the technical requirements of creating such a peripheral.
I think that what could be considered a VERY usefull Maple Bus device would be a maple bus NIC. It'd get decent speeds, and would out-perform a Serial NIC as I have heard others suggest.
All in all, a hard drive would be wonderful, but with a NIC, you can just stream from a PC as if it were a hard drive.
For a DC Maple Ethernet interface,
Maybe this XPORT can do the job:
http://www.gridconnect.com/xports.html
The XPORT features a serial/ethernet bridge, even a built-in webserver. Cool!
For WiFi, there is also a WIPORT:
http://www.gridconnect.com/wiports.html
Developing a new peripheral would require alot of talent from the DC Scene.
Perhaps a cooperative partnership between the DC Scene's hardware-experts, software-experts and Marketing-experts.
This would be very hard but so cool.
Hard drive will be amzing but just thing of an upgrading system that would clip under.Dreamcast has four small clips under it.
Or just thing of a DVD rom.
Everything would be easier for porting because of the memory space.
Then a new homebrew world will rise for the DC.
This is starting to sound like a connectivity peripheral.
I think anything is possible when there is enough talent, will, and economic incentive.
I ask the DC Community:
*How much market demand for a new Dreamcast connectivity peripheral ?
----Connect the old dinosaur Dreamcast to their home-network/internet
--------For fun, or nostalgia
------------Play MP3s off the net
-----------------Simplify homebrew; Execute games from network-attached drives (no disc-burning required.)
*Which connectivity format desired (Ethernet/WiFi/Bluetooth/USB/Ultrawideband) ?
----WIFI will remain the most ubiquitous wireless-personal-networking standard for 2005/2006.
-------However, by 2007, *Ultrawideband* will start to replace Wifi in many types of home applications.
------------Currently, Ethernet chips are the cheapest, and most cost-effective.
Finally,
*Can a new DC Connectivity Peripheral be marketed economically and profitably ?
--Price for Chips
----Fabrication Costs
-------Distribution Costs
----------Profitable ? Or Money Pit ?
The Xport is interessant, but il couldn't be used for dremcast, becaus there's no maple xport (and there certainly won't be any) and the serial rate is too different from the dremcast's to be really effective (one could maybe have rates around 300kbps working but not more)
no, the serial port on the DC has speeds up to 1.5mb/s. Those are the maximum speeds that have been achieved via the serial-to-USB coders cable. And 1.5mb/s is PLENTY of speed, even for homebrew online games.
And I was just thinking. The maple bus, is it 2mb/s per PORT? or 2mb/s TOTAL over the whole port system? If its over the whole port system, then any kind of bandwidth hungry device would render then entire controller/keyboard/vmu/mouse system immaculate, since you would have no bandwidth left for standard Dreamcast periphrials. Once again, a NIC would be far more feasable, and far more usefull than a hard drive.
Think about it, homebrew online, streaming storage/media, coding, and interconnectivity versus just streaming storage/media.
I think the Dreamcast Serial interace uses 3.3v signals, right?
Those signals must be elevated to 12v to work with conventional serial devices.
I see that Marcus Comstedt's Serial Adaptor does the voltage-elevation needed:
http://mc.pp.se/dc/serifc.html
The resultant 12v signals should be acceptable to the XPort:
http://www.gridconnect.com/xports.html
Turns out the voltage elevation is not necessary
According to the XPort's datasheet,
http://site.gridconnect.com/docs/PDF/xport.pdf
The XPort accepts 3.3V signals.
So the Dreamcast's native 3.3v serial IO signals should be fine.
New Peripherials for the Dreamcast will enpower it for sure.
But just think......If a third party company has made Treamcast(which sell very good) everything is possible!!!!
So why not!!!?
I know the dreamcast can go up to 1,5625 Mbps (see my dcxfer card :-) but you must have maching bitrates, the dreamcast can't do 900 kbps like the xport, the higher common rate beetween the two should be 300kbps.
Dreamcast XPort Ethernet Inteface
(Potential New Peripheral)
Plugs into Dreamcast's Serial IO Port
300 kbps bitrate
Costs ~$65 in parts to build
Cheaper than BBA
Faster than the DC dialup modem
Requires new software to operate (incompatible with existing titles)
Worthwhile Project ? Let's hear people's comments.
so did anyone actually go thru with this? cause i wouldlove to do mine but i am far dumber then you guys will ever be, i tried reading all this and i was lost but i had a grin knowing....someone had tried...
or thought about trying...let me know whats up guys :P
I don't know of anyone doing it. Nevertheless, it remains possible.
Genius engineers do contribute to these forums, and their past projects did result in marketable products (for example, the USB-serial coders cable.)
Homebrew peripherals are cool, and perhaps marketable, but the most important test is profitability.
I am optimistic that chip prices will fall in the next 12 months.
Lower chip prices may allow new storage/connectivity peripheral development for the Dreamcast.
you know what we could do, hold a sega enginerr hostage, and make him design a new DC with a HDD, Ethernet, USB, 802.11b/g, Bluetooth, Coffee Maker, Clock/Radio, DVD drive, Credit card scanner, 4 diffrent types of screw drivers, knives, a leather bore, all on a seasame seed bun
*200th Post*
I'd go for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by FrierTuck
Has anyone considered the IDE Bus used for the GD-ROM?
I don't know if it's possible to easily connect and use two devices on the same bus with a dreamcast (without much modification)...but it's an IDE bus...seems more logical to me to use that for adding a hard drive.
I havn't a clue though if the DC BIOS would support this or if it even matters about the BIOS.
I don't thing it's an ide interface, sorry, would've been too easy.
Yeah, you could well be right. My only basis on it being an IDE Bus is the fact that I saw a schematic with that written on.
I'm sure I did.
Either that or i'm loosing it =\
So do we have any news from that?
well the oti chip used in some gdroms have an ide interface, the chips used in my gdrom is a toshiba without it. So I can't follow the lines to see if the ide bus is connected to the dreamcast or to a sega interface chip.
If someone's go a logic analyzer and is willing to reverse engineer the interface protocol, it could lead to homebrewn cdrom interfaces.
We're stuck there for now.
ok but please if you have any news post without second thinking....
Its burning thread
Has their been any progress?
i think ir would be best if we organized this line between financial providers, technical providers, and hardware donators. I would be a part of the former. I wondered if a super VMU would be possible to give an added boost of memory.
not gonna happen.
Exactly my concern.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morph
Also, doesn't the bios have a direct i/o with the maple bus (game ports) ?
If a commercial game is ran, it would try to scan the peripherals connected and get confused when it stumbles on a maple-to-usb thumbdrive.
Definitely a boot-program would be needed.
A more realistic though is to program homebrew to utilize a blank memory card in an unused controller as extra ram, sort of like paging.
(ie, you're playin a 2 player game, but ports 2 and 3 have controllers with empty memory cards, and the homebrew uses the memory cards to buffer whatevers)
:)
I don't really know anything about hardware but here is my Idea. Would it be possible to mod a VMU to attach to a hard drive, then have a boot disc that tells the Dreamcast to read the hard drive, allowing you to be able to load homebrew and backups. Just my idea, doubt its any good though.
BigMace- That's exactly what the last posts were about using the maple bus (controller port) for the hard drive.
You can boot homebrew from the VMU, but you are limited to 128kb.
Theoretically one could replace the vmu memory with a 1gb flashram, and boot games off there, but it's too much of a computability issue, not to mention bus limit (amount of information you can send at a single time).
Good thinking though ;)
lol, as I said I dont know much about DC hardware. I just wish there was someway for a dc to be able to use a harddrive. If it could I would play it alot more because I always have trouble with burnt discs, mostly because I only have the cheap kind where I live though.