New Super Famicast & NesterDC SE releases imminent

News from DCEmulation thanks to the great Dr Zoidberg.[br][br] scherzo has posted some infomation on the DCEmu forums about the next Super Famicast release that should be arriving very soon & has also asked if anybody would be willing to take over the project from him, here's some of what he had to say:[br][br]"First, by the end of the weekend, I will release a new version of Super Famicast. No, it will not be blazingly faster; not even close to fullspeed. Here's what it WILL have: [br]- Syncronized sound [br]- Mouse support [br]And that's it. Some of you might choose not to burn a new version since there isn't too much different from the last version. I might even give this a subversion number like 1.5. [br][br]Second, I want to ask someone to take over the task of speeding it up. The more and more I fool around with the code, the more I realize that maybe the task of writing the CPU core in assembler is in a little over my head being my first assembler project of any kind. I think I could do it, but not with the amount of free time I get. I foresee it taking and LOOOONG time if I do it."[br][br]scherzo has also been working on that great NES emulator that we haven't had news on for a little while, NesterDC, here is some more news from the same topic:[br][br]"Last night I got the latest version of NesterDC to compile in my dev environment. I plan on making a Special Edition of this emu with added features. The feature that will stand out the most is netplay and will support both the modem and bba. NesterDC will connect to a central server where you can find other people to play with. It will also sport a new interface using the system I developed for Super Famicast. [br][br]If anyone here has ideas for new features they would like to see in NesterDC SE (Special Edition, Scherzo Edition ) then post them here.[br][br]I will also need testers in the future, especially people with a bba since those are difficult to come by." [br][br]Amazing news :)

I know this will sound terriable but damn. All this ****ing hype over superfamicast and its not gonna go anywhere. Out of all the devolopers scherzo looked like he'd finsh it to the end. Now he's just done like so many others. I hate people who release things and never finsh them more than I do people who dont do anything at all.

Give him a chance hes still learning his craft, it is an open source emu so hopefully others with better knowledge of SH4 can help him.

Its like Building a House, yes we can all do cerrtain jobs but now and again you need an expert to tidy little bits up and that philosophy carrys over to coding.

He shouldnt of claimed he was gonna get it to fullspeed if he couldnt do it by himself.

i don't think he said he would, i think he said he would try. i think the idea of Super Famicast is that everone can chip in a little

[quote author=Wraggster link=board=dcemu;num=1082494155;start=0#2 date=04/21/04 at 19:14:37]Give him a chance hes still learning his craft, it is an open source emu so hopefully others with better knowledge of SH4 can help him.

Its like Building a House, yes we can all do cerrtain jobs but now and again you need an expert to tidy little bits up and that philosophy carrys over to coding.[/quote]
I agree totally, I know it was really hyped because we were excited to hear something on a
snes emulator that was in the works. You never know though, scherzo COULD get better at
compiling and start working on super famicast again, but he needs a chance. I am disappointed
(spelling sux today} but I just have to live with the fact that it may take a very long time
to get it going, from what I heard snes is hard to emulate. My brothers 200 mhz computer can
handle zsnes fine, but this aint zsnes that is being ported (another thing that is impossible,
from what I heard} this in snes 9x so it is totally different code and I think it may need
more processing power to run 9x but then again GP 32 has a snes emu that runs full speed and
I believe sound. quote me if I am wrong though, please. if we see full strength snes emulaton
we will, if we don't then we don't, just get a snes or super famicom and get a super 8
converter if you want import games, or get a flash card for your super famicom. like I said
though if it happens it happens, just be patient, I for one have given up but if it happens
then I will be happy for I can play games that weren't released here with english translation
patches (frikin japs :P}.

Meh the flash card thing is total ****ing bs. It would be easier to get a Video card with tv out and it would be better too. Anyways you werent saying this opinion at Dcemulation.

Please, just ban him. Â*This isn't cool, Cless.

I wish I had more time, the Nester DC project sounds right up my alley. I guess I could make time to test, but I'd like to help out someway :/

ban me? they can't ban me HERE if I am good, you watch, if I am a nice guy here (and i can
fake being good} they can't ban me if I am not flaming anybody can they? NOPE! banning, I don't
think thats a word!

so whats the story? clessy and demoniusx are the same guy or one of them is more stupid than i thought?
anyway i think that would be a good idea to ban both, their posts are so useless...

you cannot ban someone that is not doing anything wrong, and I am not doing anything wrong
therefore you cannot ban the person unless they are flaming constantly which I am not doing
so in all honesty, you can't ban me of NO REASON, and that post to me and clessy you made
you should be ban for that then, since it is also pointless, well then you should be banned
to speud.

[quote author=speud link=board=dcemu;num=1082494155;start=0#9 date=04/23/04 at 05:50:37]so whats the story? clessy and demoniusx are the same guy or one of them is more stupid than i thought?
anyway i think that would be a good idea to ban both, their posts are so useless...[/quote]
You mean excatly like the one you just posted? I'm tired of all you coders and your stupid elitist ways. No offense to coders who arent assholes tho.

[quote author=Clessy link=board=dcemu;num=1082494155;start=0#11 date=04/23/04 at 12:57:43]
You mean excatly like the one you just posted? I'm tired of all you coders and your stupid elitist ways. No offense to coders who arent assholes tho.[/quote]

ian micheal and black aura are the only nice coders I have known, they never gave me proplems, it seems like the other coders have ego trips and take out on people who cannot code.I agree with you that most coders in the dc realm are elitist.

if elitist means someone who doesnt like people who are always negative without being productive then yes im one of the most elitist guy i think, but that has nothing to do with the fact im a coder.

And when the new VMU Tool is released DemoniusX and Clessy will happily burn it with all the saves downloaded from speud his site ;).

Speud isn't elite at all, he is just realistic. C'mon, keep it clean. I don't expect you are contributing and you don't need to, just try to be a bit less negative unless with good arguments.

[quote author=Storminator16 link=board=dcemu;num=1082494155;start=0#7 date=04/23/04 at 03:25:08]Please, just ban him. Â*This isn't cool, Cless.[/quote]

Agree.

???

It's less fun reading the posts here if someone's going to be a crazy poster, without any real message / content, like this (my) one Â*>:(

What's up with him?

It makes no sense and gives me a bad feeling about the newbs visiting the scene when the atmosphere on these sites turns bad.

@Cless:
Plz give some useful suggestions or sth similar, if a program isn't designed like you want it to be
...or learn SH4 asm ;D

You're so mindless you cant even see I didnt start the fight. Anyways I'm not a coder. I looked into C in late middle school years and early highschool years and I just couldnt bare it. Tons of hrs for lil results. So now i'm into Pre Production Video Editing.

look.. scherzo is being realistic..

He can try to code the cpu core in assembly, and I can put money on it
if he tried, it would probably end up slower than compiled C..

He's never done it before.. and it's not an easy undertaking..
To gain speed first you need to write your assembly based on
the design of the cpu.. How it does it's branch prediction, and
pre-fetching, keep your code inside the cache's..aligning it on
cache lines... creating queues.. for data writes/fetches..
and it's easy to trash the cache on the SH4..

But the 6502/816 is so simple I doubt that re-coding the core
to assembly will make much of a difference.. someone would
probably be better off going into the code and getting rid of
all those 8bit/16bit seq. reads, and writes and make them 32bit..
try to burst as much as possible, space the rom image in ram
away (page aligned) Â*from the variables so the pages can kept
open on the sdram,
the same would go for any data thats simultaneosly being accessed..
try to move as much of the video engine as possible to the PVR, and
DMA engine.. even interleaving the CPU/Video emulation with the screen
drawing..
Use global/static variables like crazy, use shifts/logic instead of mults/divs/math..
get rid of any floating point, ALL typecasting.. make all
the vars 32bit simplify the code, none of that
50 things happens on one line deal..

Ugh.. my ears a bleeding...
And the point was.. it's not such an easy task..
you gotta have lots of free time to pull that off

Why hasnt anyone used underclock on Snes yet they have on Genesis. Genesis emulators are rather fast right now they just lack features like saving.

thanks kamjin, that was very instructive.

Thanks Kamjin for the info.

A note to those who flame etc etc

Dont 8)

I wont have these forums ruined by flaming, constructive comments are welcome but dont come here for a slanging match or you will be shown the door.

Have a nice day :)

no problemo..

If you want anything explained further just let me know..

Thanks, your work is great Btw ;)

Nice to see so much talent in the Dreamcast scene.

Did the very first versions of Zsnes use the c language instead of ASM, if so would it be possible to work from that point in time?

Nope even the very first version used complete ASM.
During around version 1.0 however someone used a program to convert all of Zsnes to sloppy C and then compiled it. Much slower but if you could get in contact with the author you might be able to port it but i doubt it would be any faster than Snes9x.

Thank ya Wraggster ;D

I've looked a Zsnes code a while back.. it's intuitively optimised, earlier
versions were much more optimised, but he's had to remove some
self modifing code in a few places, so it doesn't bomb out on anything
better than a pentium..
the asm version is a good reference.. but the SH4 command set makes
the intel inst. set look like the dinosaur that it is..

Clessy, you'd be surprised simple sloppy code might actually run faster
then neat and tidy over "guruish" code.. compilers tend to have a bit
of trouble when the code has multi fucntions on one line.. or C++ type
code usually becomes bloated when compiled into assembly..
By any chance you got a link to that C source?

I just have one simple question, why did scherzo tell us all this good stuff and not do it.
I respect the guy for what he has done but why did he tell us from "I am not even close of
quitting superfamicast" to " I can't do it anymore" a person who builds us up with hype
and how hapy we are about the new snes development, unlike a certain team that likes to play
"hide and go seek" won't mention any names, but why would a coder makes us happy and just let
us down like that, I would never do that regardless, if I had the knowledge that he had I
wouldn't quit, cuz i for one am not a quitter when I do something, I just lack knoledge but
the ones who do have the knoledge quit easily when a task if over whelming, but if I had
the knowledge I would put it towards the DC scene, that would be for sure :}. he should take his time and do it, because I have a felling no one is going to pick up the sword and go at it.

I'd place my bet's on optimism, and not realising
how much time it's actually gonna take.

I think his intentions were good at the start, but
the project just overwhelemed him.
and In most cases that's the main problem. People
start out with all the energy.. burn all sort of time
on the project.. then get frustrated, and give up..
or loose interest..
They have to just pace it.. or take a break..
so what if it takes 8 months to do.. you're supposed
to be doing it for your own enjoyment..

And I agree, torch passing tends to die off I've tacked
SFC on my todo list.. but if I get around to it It's gonna
take a while.. my current project (a 2.5D engine) is really
eating more time then it should.. and after that I've
got 2 more ports I had started tinkering with.. after that
I'm gonna see if I can rework chunks of the SFC engine..
buit it's a long ways off..

Scherzo wont let it die, he just needs to learn more about SH4 ASM, give him time and he will surprise you :)

[quote author=Wraggster link=board=dcemu;num=1082494155;start=15#28 date=04/29/04 at 22:23:18]Scherzo wont let it die, he just needs to learn more about SH4 ASM, give him time and he will surprise you :)[/quote]
i can see what you mean ,but it is really hard to be nice to someone that makes a horrendous
amount of promises and not carry them out. I can understand that people are doing this for
fun and not money but why hype up us lovers of the Dc scene and then let us down, I mean
come on, and wraggster, I expected a suprise out of the Dsnes team and I still seen nothing on
them, but I am not going to mention anymore of them because people jock them so I am not
going to further comment on them. I respect coder in what they do but I can't respect quitters
when it comes to letting all the people who supported scherzo in the first place, it is like
when a father does not give his kid something on his Bday, UNEXCUSABLE! I do have a snes
but I can't read japanese other wise I would get tons of imports, the only Import I really
have Is Dracula X rondo of blood. that is it, but I have a translation sheet that tells me
what they are saying in the cut scenes so it is all good. I don't see, I mean hell I hate my
job lots and I barely get paid at all and it is overwhelming but I do it to please others
same goes to the DC scene, people who code make the ones who cannot happy, why wouldn't they
be, I mean I had faith in Ian micheal cuz he is not a quitter he does what he can in the emu
scene, and look what he brought us, The Neo CD project and look how much speed it has and
all it can do so far, it hasn't been out for more than 2 months!!!!! that is a repected coder
I wish all coders were determinted like he is but everyone is different, I am happy with what
I have in the dcscene but I would always like more, and who knows if I get the knowledge that
the coders got maybe I can make something that will make everyones mouth drop.

[quote author=DemoniusX link=board=dcemu;num=1082494155;start=15#29 date=04/30/04 at 01:37:10]
i can see what you mean ,but it is really hard to be nice to someone that makes a horrendous
amount of promises and not carry them out. [/quote]

It's called life. Deal with it.

I couldn't think of a nicer way to say all of that. Really, Demon that is not cool. Have you ever let anyone down in your life? I guess we they should question your intentions publicly too, then we can continue this cycle of reasoning.

Let's get something straight: Scherzo has the talent, but Scherzo doesn't have the time. He's doing this for his own purposes, and is not getting paid for it. If you have the skills that Scherzo have, then maybe you can question him *privately*. Damn.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled program...

[quote author=Storminator16 link=board=dcemu;num=1082494155;start=30#30 date=04/30/04 at 03:38:43]

It's called life. Â*Deal with it. Â*

I couldn't think of a nicer way to say all of that. Â*Really, Demon that is not cool. Â*Have you ever let anyone down in your life? Â*I guess we they should question your intentions publicly too, then we can continue this cycle of reasoning.

Let's get something straight: Â*Scherzo has the talent, but Scherzo doesn't have the time. Â*He's doing this for his own purposes, and is not getting paid for it. Â* If you have the skills that Scherzo have, then maybe you can question him *privately*. Â*Damn.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled program...
[/quote]
I just want to say on last thing before I say the heck with this topic, cuz I don't even see
superfamicast V 1.5 or the nester deal either. I never let anyone down in my life, I couldn't
I have a heart a gold but I have a emotional problem and I am also sensitive [does not take a
genius to figure that out} if you make promises and not carry them out then its wrong. It
is not "life" you know if you make promises and break them people start disliking you and
hating you, I can't let people down because I care too much for people even though I get beat
down for expressing my beliefs, which is why this world is F**CED up and so are the people.
any ways if Super famicast comes back great , then I apoligize for my pounding on scherzo
but if he doesn't release the nester deal, how many people do you think are going to be happy
with his coding expertise then, I bet most of the DC scene will disrespect him, but hide
it cuz they don't want to get flamed like I do because I am not afraid of expressing my beliefs.

first scherzo never promised anything but doing his best.
second get a life and stop complaining about authors who cant answer to your demands.
third why admins dont post warnings about this kind of dumb posts?

ive seen a warning for flamming recently, but i think some messages really deserve a flame, while these stupid complains are really useless. or maybe thats the kind of posters you want here ???

EDIT: funny filter you have :)

[quote author=DemoniusX link=board=dcemu;num=1082494155;start=30#31 date=04/30/04 at 23:53:42]
I just want to say on last thing before I say the heck with this topic, cuz I don't even see
superfamicast V 1.5 or the nester deal either. I never let anyone down in my life, I couldn't
I have a heart a gold but I have a emotional problem and I am also sensitive [does not take a
genius to figure that out} if you make promises and not carry them out then its wrong. It
is not "life" you know if you make promises and break them people start disliking you and
hating you, I can't let people down because I care too much for people even though I get beat
down for expressing my beliefs, which is why this world is F**CED up and so are the people.
any ways if Super famicast comes back great , then I apoligize for my pounding on scherzo
but if he doesn't release the nester deal, how many people do you think are going to be happy
with his coding expertise then, I bet most of the DC scene will disrespect him, but hide
it cuz they don't want to get flamed like I do because I am not afraid of expressing my beliefs.
[/quote]I know what you mean man theres 100's of people thinking about how much they hate people for starting all these projects and then never going anywhere with them but everyones affaird of flame back.

Nester DC does not need a new menu netplay is unproved and the modem driver does not give a dial tone when i tryed it.


He should be improving some thing like DreamMSX which needs a new menu..

He did promise fullspeed Snes emulation i seen the post where he promised it. And not to give up.

Also looking at katana for a proper modem driver and improving open source projects with Leaked Katana dev kit even stating the idea was Pretty wrong.

Any one thing you need out of that and it's clear to me the modem driver..

Still good luck but the big claims and no action might start to grate on a lot of people.

[quote author=Ian_micheal link=board=dcemu;num=1082494155;start=30#34 date=05/01/04 at 05:25:54]

Nester DC does not need a new menu netplay is unproved and the modem driver does not give a dial tone when i tryed it.

He should be improving some thing like DreamMSX which needs a new menu..
[/quote]
so you think an update of nesterDC would be a bad thing? just because there are other projects you think should be updated too? to me any update is welcome, plus if he get the modem working that will open new possibilities for other projects.

[quote author=Ian_micheal link=board=dcemu;num=1082494155;start=30#34 date=05/01/04 at 05:25:54]
He did promise fullspeed Snes emulation i seen the post where he promised it. And not to give up.
[/quote]
hmmm i dont remember having read that, but if you have a link feel free to post it. i remember he said he knew he could do it, but you probably know that being positive when you start a project is essential. if you start and dont believe you can make it you can give up really quick.

[quote author=Ian_micheal link=board=dcemu;num=1082494155;start=30#34 date=05/01/04 at 05:25:54]
Also looking at katana for a proper modem driver and improving open source projects with Leaked Katana dev kit even stating the idea was Pretty wrong.
[/quote]
that would have been pretty wrong if he used katana in nesterDC, but he quickly changed his mind.

[quote author=Ian_micheal link=board=dcemu;num=1082494155;start=30#34 date=05/01/04 at 05:25:54]
Still good luck but the big claims and no action might start to grate on a lot of people.
[/quote]
i really dont like this way to think. people should be happy he tried and released something instead of just complaining he didnt make it perfect. thats even more surprising from someone like you ian. you should know pretty well how rude it is when you work hard on something and dont see users being grateful to reward you.

That's not from me is it? i said a lot of people were, did i say me? Ive heard this throu pm's and msn people are not really impressed. My comment is pertaining to that. My own POV is dont say you done it till it's working .

Point being the modem driver has no dial tone and does not work right when i tested it at all. Â*So if he get's it working i will just be thinking he used the info from the cracked katana dev kit he downloaded and said clearly i will use it.


After me posting he said he was not going to. Never should of been a thought should it. If i had not posted do your really think he would of not used it. I post the facts straight from the kit.

Sorry i dont share your view on ripping the authors menu on shoving his menu and and calling that A NICE UPDATE, if i was the nester dc author and that was done to my hard work i be pissed. There is nothing wrong with the nesterdc menu is there?
Netplay is fine but it be nice to be mailled to the author of the program see if he wants an update.

It's just going to kill any chance of a real offical update.

Stop and think a min would you like it if that happen to your tool. With out asking at all.

Really have you ever seen a unoffical update to nester dc or demomenu from me or a new dream inducer.

I have the source to all of these no way im doing an update. I have respect for these programs and what they did for the scene.

I dont support any update is a good one.

well i hope youre wrong and he really changed his mind about katana, anyway theres no need to reproach him something he didnt do yet.

i agree if he uses illegal tools to continue a project started with legal tools that would be a big error, but i see nothing wrong in continuing it with legal tools.
vmu tool is not open source so no chance it happens, if i opened the source i think i would expect someone to update my project someday.

as for the modem dial with kos it sounds hard but possible from different sources, lets wait and see, if he gets it implemented he will probably share the source so you can see if it comes from katana or kos.

i see no problem at all with unofficial updates to emulators whos sources have been released, just remember that NesterDC was in fact kens port to start with and then it was took over but at one stage we had the normal Nesterdc and also the expanded version.

Give Scherzo the chance to explain himself before any more is said :)

Simple fact he posted a link on dcemu to the leaked katana dev kit and said im going to use it to improve nesterdc.


I think that's shocking he promoted the leaked link and quoted the person who leaked it.

That shocked me and i dont have to be impressed by that do.

Very much on topic.