PSP Slim Doesn't Play Nice With Some SDTVs?

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October 8th, 2007, 16:12
wraggster

PSP Slim Doesn't Play Nice With Some SDTVs?

Via Kotaku

http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/10/pspnogo.jpg

An angry Kotakuite sends in this rather upsetting photo for those of you with standard definition TVs. If you are planning on picking up a new PSP Slim and want to play games on your SDTV, you may want to rethink your purchase, check the back of your TV or at least decide how badly you really want to play PSP Slim on it. According to the photo, the only way you can do this is to play connected with a D-terminal AV cable or component cables and the content must be output in progressive scan. UMD movies seem to work fine, but games are a no go unless your TV supports progressive scan.

I did a little research and according to the all knowing internet (which is generally about as reliable as a Magic 8 Ball), only about 20% of homes in the US have HDTVs so you'd think that these companies would try and cater a little more to the other 80%. Of course this opens up all kinds of conspiracy theories about the game companies helping to support the sales of HDTV's and vice-versa. Still, something tells me there are going to be quite a few angry PSP/SDTV owners out there. Why? Because they can be.
October 8th, 2007, 16:15
ICE

My tv has component jacks but no progressive scan so all i can do is.. well.. everything but games. I have been watching movies through my psp to my TV though.
October 8th, 2007, 16:19
Baboon

That’s pretty poor compatibility on standard definition tv’s ...Sony have sort of shot themselves in the foot! lol

I really don’t see the point in “upgrading” to a slim, unless you have loadsa money to waste.

Its served me extremely well so I’ll stick with phat bad boy psp thank you very much. :)
October 8th, 2007, 16:55
Prasoc

dam it! i may have to rethink my decision to get a slim
October 8th, 2007, 17:02
mcdougall57

this was the only reason i was goin 2 get a slim
October 8th, 2007, 17:18
mnuhaily22

I have an HD TV, so no problem here:thumbup:
October 8th, 2007, 17:34
V3N0M

Well hopefully custom firmware can come through for us again! If custom firmware can do anything to fix this situation..
October 8th, 2007, 17:40
ICE

yeah im expecting to be able to play games on my sdtv soon.. maybe thats wishful thinking lol.
October 8th, 2007, 18:10
ruiner9

Has anyone tried plugging their Slim into the back of a DVD player that supports progressive scan and using it as a "pass-thru" to the TV? Maybe that will suffice to fool the PSP into thinking it's connected to an HDTV and the DVD player will output a usable SDTV signal. I don't have a slim, so I can't test this, but it's a sound theory IMO... :)
October 8th, 2007, 18:26
r-complex

You can always buy a PSP 2 VGA adapter and a 20 inch CRT for around $75.00 or so. That would seem to the cheapest solution for us who don't have a HDTV! I'd be another way to recycle all those CRTs instead of them ending up in a landfill!
October 8th, 2007, 19:01
SpooForBrains

Um, this was made clear right from the start. In almost every piece I have read about the Slim and its TV out, it has been made explicitly clear that games will only be displayed via component.

Much as I love a good conspiracy theory, it's really very simple - the games are in 420p. That's progessive scan (normal TVs are interlaced, that's 420i) so only a TV that supports progressive scan will work, and progessive scan is only supported over a component cable.

Sorry, but there it is. Anyone who has been actually paying attention to the press releases and slim reviews would know this already.
October 8th, 2007, 20:22
ICE

I was able to play a UMD game through my tv which DOESNT have progressive scan. just the picture is jumping around all over the place. My other tv does the same thing too.
October 8th, 2007, 20:22
Sketchy

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpooForBrains

Um, this was made clear right from the start. In almost every piece I have read about the Slim and its TV out, it has been made explicitly clear that games will only be displayed via component.

Much as I love a good conspiracy theory, it's really very simple - the games are in 420p. That's progessive scan (normal TVs are interlaced, that's 420i) so only a TV that supports progressive scan will work, and progessive scan is only supported over a component cable.

Sorry, but there it is. Anyone who has been actually paying attention to the press releases and slim reviews would know this already.

Exactly what i was thinking.....and also the reason for me purchasing a laptop instead of the slim.......:D

Hopefully I'll have a HDTV by the end of next month.....fingers crossed :cool:
October 8th, 2007, 20:33
ICE

2 Attachment(s)

fine i will post proof! psp video out on a tv without progressive scan!!!

*runs to tape it*

EDIT: heres a video of it with pics of how its plugged in.
October 8th, 2007, 21:27
VFerg

Yea its pretty straight forward. If you read about how its able to play through the tv it makes sense that you would need a tv with progressive scan because the psp probably doesnt have the option to display any other way, which if you ask me its the way it should be.
October 8th, 2007, 21:30
ICE

ok but that video i just posted is of psp slim video running a game on a tv without progressive scan.
October 8th, 2007, 21:36
VFerg

I cant view the video, it says its no longer available. What is the setup?

I find it shocking that the PSP community took so long to discover this! I would think this is something that people would have noticed within the first week of its release. Guess the majority of the people buying them right now all have HDTV's?
October 8th, 2007, 21:39
ICE

i uploaded the vid like 10 minutes ago. anywho its plugged into a switcher and then into my tv.

my other tv has component jacks but no progressive scan and it does nearly the same thing.

EDIT: the video is up.
October 8th, 2007, 21:44
SpooForBrains

The embedded video doesn't work for some reason but if you visit the youtube link, it works. And what does it show?

A standard definition television COMPLETELY FAILING TO DISPLAY the picture from a PSP Slim.

Yeah. Well done.
October 8th, 2007, 21:46
ICE

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpooForBrains

The embedded video doesn't work for some reason but if you visit the youtube link, it works. And what does it show?

A standard definition television COMPLETELY FAILING TO DISPLAY the picture from a PSP Slim.

Yeah. Well done.

lol your an ass.
that looks to me like it did display it.. just poorly. i was under the impression that it wouldnt display period but it does.
October 8th, 2007, 22:12
cawley1

Jeez, I knew this from just about when the PSP Slim was released, lamers need to read up more!
October 8th, 2007, 22:25
ICE

yeah i thought it was common knowledge too but i guess not lol. i was just testing it on my sdtv's to see what would happen :P
October 9th, 2007, 02:00
Brucem

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpooForBrains

The embedded video doesn't work for some reason but if you visit the youtube link, it works. And what does it show?

A standard definition television COMPLETELY FAILING TO DISPLAY the picture from a PSP Slim.

Yeah. Well done.

Hahaha.. Nice!
October 9th, 2007, 03:16
osgeld

um yea this is kind of a duh thing here, its been stated many many many times

but sony WTF man could you make this a little more of a pita

well if you want to watch umd movies (as if everyone did) you need this cable and this setup

BUT if you want to play games you cant use the above setup, you need this wire and this tv 2 trolls and a blue unicorn

BUT if you,.. ahhh screw it already
October 9th, 2007, 09:57
Nnemo

ehhh..I knew it...
But hey,it's $ony after all..
October 9th, 2007, 11:52
tanukikun

The double side-by-side image that you're getting is due to the TV only being able to display half of the signal.

The same thing happens when you use a VGA progressive output on an older Arcade machine's monitor. (For folks like me who refit arcade cabinets)

If you continue to play the video through you're TV in that manner, you'll blow the Annode in the CRT.
October 9th, 2007, 12:30
SpooForBrains

My DVD players supports progressive scan, and it has always annoyed me that I've not been able to use this feature. Replaced the TV recently, and hardly any sets in the warehouse I bought it from (mostly refurbed rental TVs) supported component input or progressive scan. It seems it's only TVs manufactured quite recently that support it, and even then I haven't seen any SDTVs that do.
October 9th, 2007, 14:39
Baboon

Quote:

Originally Posted by osgeld

um yea this is kind of a duh thing here, its been stated many many many times

but sony WTF man could you make this a little more of a pita

well if you want to watch umd movies (as if everyone did) you need this cable and this setup

BUT if you want to play games you cant use the above setup, you need this wire and this tv 2 trolls and a blue unicorn

BUT if you,.. ahhh screw it already

Now this post about sums it all up! :rofl:
October 9th, 2007, 15:24
bah

Pretty much no standard (SD) CRT TVs support progressive scan, unless they specifically advertise it as a feature (rare, on expensive sets).

Interlacing is probably one of the oldest forms of video compression, designed to 1/2 the frequency range required to transmit/record a channel.
Hell, a lot of DVDs released to this day are still interlaced. You have to deinterlace them when you rip them to divx or you get to enjoy the lack of 1/2 the vertical lines per frame, especially with horizontal motion, when watching on a PC.
I'm assuming progressive scan TVs perform some kind of deinterlacing for these inputs.

Anyone keeping up with news on the slim would know it wont output games on pretty much any older TV.
Doesnt change the fact its really poor of sony to not include a bit of extra hardware to make the thing compatible with all TVs though.
Its not like the thing is running in a res higher than SD television, the slim doesn't even upscale the video does it? Really poor sony.

How goddam much more could some scaling and better tv out hardware have cost them?

Combine this with the fact they kept using the same LCD panels with the same pathetic response time and it seems sony execs are either 1/2 blind or just not bothered if they take a great product and cripple it in some unfathomable way.
October 9th, 2007, 16:50
ICE

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanukikun

The double side-by-side image that you're getting is due to the TV only being able to display half of the signal.

The same thing happens when you use a VGA progressive output on an older Arcade machine's monitor. (For folks like me who refit arcade cabinets)

If you continue to play the video through you're TV in that manner, you'll blow the Annode in the CRT.

oh wow someone explained it without try to make me look stupid! how incredible.. thanks anyways..
October 10th, 2007, 06:25
Psyberjock

Personally I'm shocked by how many people are upset because their cool modern HD toy doesn't work on their old crappy TV. Why would you want to output a HD signal to a SD TV? So you can play games in lower resolution? Its hard enough to see details on a PSP already. Why make it even worse? Just cause you can make the blocks bigger?

Get with the program people. Most laws around the world state that by around 2010 all broadcasts must be in digital format. You're going to HAVE to buy a new TV or at least something to degrade the signal to work on your old crap sets.

Just buy a new TV! (I don't mean new for you, I mean brand new) Then you can finally use your Xbox360s and PS3s the way they were meant to be used. PLUS, you can even connect your little handheld system to your TV and at least see the bigger blocks at the same resolution level.

The western world (especially the US) is so slow to change to newer standards. Its amazing how this resembles people's reluctance to switch to DVDs from VHS. The new standards aren't there to cheat you out of anything. They're there to make life better.

Sony isn't requiring you to use an HDTV because they want to sell HDTVs. HDTVs will sell themselves. Sony's doing it so they don't have to include antiquated parts in a state of the art device.

In Japan, this is not a problem. Everyone has already bought an HDTV. We're not wondering why things won't work on our crap sets, we're wondering why there's still a couple of television stations not broadcasting in HD yet.

Then you may say, well the US (or your applicable country name) isn't Japan. That's true. There's not as many tightwads in Japan. Spend a few bucks and make yourself happy instead of saving a few bucks and complaining about everything.
October 10th, 2007, 07:48
osgeld

we have a winner of the osgeld disect!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyberjock

Personally I'm shocked by how many people are upset because their cool modern HD toy doesn't work on their old crappy TV.

the psp runs at 480x272 were not talking HD there is no real reason the psp could not be on a SDTV, they just choose to use progressive scan insead of both PS and interlaced

except for a extra bit of software (doubtful but maby a extra tiny chip) theres no real reason not too

also the playstation 2 already renders its images in 640x480 on standard tv's i think the old xbox does 800x600, point is 480x272 should be no big deal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyberjock

Why would you want to output a HD signal to a SD TV? So you can play games in lower resolution? Its hard enough to see details on a PSP already. Why make it even worse? Just cause you can make the blocks bigger?

it wont render a lower resolution, it wlll be the same, and look like a 16:9 PS2

nor just becuase you jack it into a 1080p will the psp magically gain an assload of power and render it at that res, it just scales the pixels, and that is done on the TV's hardware, just like watching non HD programing on your widescreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyberjock

Get with the program people. Most laws around the world state that by around 2010 all broadcasts must be in digital format. You're going to HAVE to buy a new TV or at least something to degrade the signal to work on your old crap sets.

i suggest your own advice, get with the program

also just becuase in 2010 all shows have to be in HD doesnt mean that you have to throw out your SD tv new years eve, SD will continue to plague the world for probably 10+ years after that

considering the psp's output is nowhere near 2010 hd standards, and SD could possibly be done with a software hack there was just no reason, other than to sell you a TV

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyberjock

Just buy a new TV! (I don't mean new for you, I mean brand new) Then you can finally use your Xbox360s and PS3s the way they were meant to be used. PLUS, you can even connect your little handheld system to your TV and at least see the bigger blocks at the same resolution level.

cause i barley watch TV as it is, and personally i dont have a grand to waste on home consoles, but thats not a good argument

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyberjock

The western world (especially the US) is so slow to change to newer standards. Its amazing how this resembles people's reluctance to switch to DVDs from VHS. The new standards aren't there to cheat you out of anything. They're there to make life better.

im not slow, but i have responsibility's that dont allow me to run out and buy the latest toy, besides when im finally forced to ditch my sdtv (in 1015-2020) it will (probably) be a 4320p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyberjock

Sony isn't requiring you to use an HDTV because they want to sell HDTVs. HDTVs will sell themselves. Sony's doing it so they don't have to include antiquated parts in a state of the art device.

its mostly software, everything is software now days, why spend untold amounts of hardwired design when you can use a dsp and a chunk of code that can be fixed/upgraded at will, SD is still around just would have been nice

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyberjock

In Japan, this is not a problem. Everyone has already bought an HDTV. We're not wondering why things won't work on our crap sets, we're wondering why there's still a couple of television stations not broadcasting in HD yet.

yea and they also have sex games becuase they forgot how to date (god dont let anyone take that the wrong way im just counterpointing)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyberjock

Then you may say, well the US (or your applicable country name) isn't Japan. That's true. There's not as many tightwads in Japan. Spend a few bucks and make yourself happy instead of saving a few bucks and complaining about everything.

my only complaint is that it was so ez to do but NOOOO, i got too much crap to pay out now as a working adult to spend on something that not going to be standard for another 3 years, and wow i really put out a pile of money for HD set when they are going to be 4x as good when the deadline hits, probally buy a 42 inch 1080p for 200$ then