Wolfenstein 3D V5.0! Its here! - Perfect Sound, Instant Save/Load & Lots More!!

[JLF65]

Oh forget it. You're going to say anything to get your point across. If I even put true DOS on there and show it to you, you'll say it's something else. I give up.

I'm a programmer looking at the code... I need something more than "it runs like this in a DOS-box under Windows" or "it runs like this in an emulator in Windows". You say "fix the bug"... and I look at the code and tell you "the only bug there is to fix will make it even faster, not slower".

If I find something else, I'll definitely alter things, but right now, I don't see anything that needs changing.

EDIT: let me go into a little more detail to help clear things up a bit...

Wolf3D has three timing settings for the sound: EXTREME, normal, and slow.

Extreme sets the timer 0 IRQ to 7000Hz. The timer 0 handler stores the current PC speaker effect sample to the PC, increments a counter, and once every ten counts calls the normal handler. This is used when you don't have a SB and still want digital effects. The speaker is used for PWM sound set at the nominal sfx rate (7000 Hz).

Normal sets the timer 0 IRQ to 700Hz. The timer 0 handler updates the music, increments a counter, and once every five counts calls the slow handler.

Slow sets the timer 0 IRQ to 140 Hz. The timer 0 handler updates sound effects. This includes sound effects which are done through the adlib.

Given the above, it seems clear the music is correct. All I can figure is that 700Hz is too much for the underlying timer emulation in DOSBOX... and I KNOW that Windows certainly won't let you mess with the timers inside a dos-box.

[Zack]

I'm a programmer looking at the code... I need something more than "it runs like this in a DOS-box under Windows" or "it runs like this in an emulator in Windows". You say "fix the bug"... and I look at the code and tell you "the only bug there is to fix will make it even faster, not slower".

If I find something else, I'll definitely alter things, but right now, I don't see anything that needs changing.

I agree with what you are saying Chilly, however the whole point of this port (from my point of view) was to recreate the experience that people remembered from playing wolf all those years ago.

True the sound "may" not really be supposed to be played that slow, but if it played that slow back then to 99% of the gamers who remember it then I see it as a goal to re-create it.

You may not agree with me but it's just my opinion. Don't take it as a dig at you, or anything else.

If you don't agree with it and don't plan on changing it that is fine. I have no problems with having a go at doing it if you don't want to.

Email me

[AshTR]

Extreme sets the timer 0 IRQ to 7000Hz. The timer 0 handler stores the current PC speaker effect sample to the PC, increments a counter, and once every ten counts calls the normal handler. This is used when you don't have a SB and still want digital effects. The speaker is used for PWM sound set at the nominal sfx rate (7000 Hz).

Normal sets the timer 0 IRQ to 700Hz. The timer 0 handler updates the music, increments a counter, and once every five counts calls the slow handler.

Slow sets the timer 0 IRQ to 140 Hz. The timer 0 handler updates sound effects. This includes sound effects which are done through the adlib.

Given the above, it seems clear the music is correct. All I can figure is that 700Hz is too much for the underlying timer emulation in DOSBOX... and I KNOW that Windows certainly won't let you mess with the timers inside a dos-box.

So are you saying it sets a IRQ 0 timer or that it sets a timer on an IRQ?

[JLF65]

So are you saying it sets a IRQ 0 timer or that it sets a timer on an IRQ?

IRQ 0 is the main PIT timer used on the PC. It's normally set to 18.2 Hz, even in Windows. In DOS, you could take over the timer and set it to whatever you wanted, although you still had to call back the original DOS vector at 18.2 Hz if you wanted DOS to work correctly (some things use the T0 timing). The Wolf3D T0 int handlers do call the original vector at 18.2 Hz.

@Zack - I guess I'll have to agree with you... if most folks want the timing on the music they're used to, I guess it's probably what should be done. Hear that AshTR? You win after all.

If you have trouble changing the timing, let me know... I know you wanted to do more on this update. What do you think about having a sound option for the music playback rate? Make it default to "Nostalgic" with "Accurate" as an option?

[AshTR]

Well, the only thing left is the item pickup sounds. The best source for how those should sound could easily be the official Wolfenstein 3D port that iD did for GBA. Why would they make it that way if it doesn't sound like the original?

[Zack]

@Zack - I guess I'll have to agree with you... if most folks want the timing on the music they're used to,

If you have trouble changing the timing, let me know... I know you wanted to do more on this update. What do you think about having a sound option for the music playback rate? Make it default to "Nostalgic" with "Accurate" as an option?

Yeah I will hit you up if I run into any issues buddy

I like the idea of the configurable option, will work on that too.

Btw please could you re-email me that save/load fix. I was sifting though my gmail last night and deleted it by misake. (one of those thing you say "damn forgot about that" after doing it )

Sorry for the huge amount of delay I am taking between releasing v5.1. It isn't to do with being stuck, or not having time.

You see, I am currently involved in quite a few projects :

1) Wolf 3d.

2) Abe's Amazing adventure.

3) My Own Game (Which will be announced/released when I think it's ready for such a thing)

4) Game with HardHat.

So each day when I manage to find spare time to code I have to battle it out between those 4 choices. Recently #3 has been getting most of that attention, with a tad of #2 and tiny bit of #1.

I am going to give #1 a little lovin' now though

[JLF65]

Well, the only thing left is the item pickup sounds. The best source for how those should sound could easily be the official Wolfenstein 3D port that iD did for GBA. Why would they make it that way if it doesn't sound like the original?

The problem there is that the item pickup sounds are done via the FM chip on the PC. Such a chip is not part of the GBA, so id would either have to digitize the PC FM sounds (not very likely), or use all-new digitized sounds (much more likely). Maybe we (Zack) could look into a way to substitute digital sounds in place of the FM sound effects. Having all digital sounds other than the music would be better in any case.

[Zack]

The problem there is that the item pickup sounds are done via the FM chip on the PC. Such a chip is not part of the GBA, so id would either have to digitize the PC FM sounds (not very likely), or use all-new digitized sounds (much more likely). Maybe we (Zack) could look into a way to substitute digital sounds in place of the FM sound effects. Having all digital sounds other than the music would be better in any case.

Sounds like a plan

[da1writer]

Damn, this is getting deep, especially when it comes to the sound department. I too think we should go the route that others remember the timing of Wolf's sound was. If they remember it being slow, we should just jump on that effort due to pleasing the community.
Sorry Zack, Boss had me working late. I will be on tomorrow, should be getting off early.
Also, lie to let you know, Thread has made it to 9 pages long with 90 post so far! Great job, you should celebrate that this has been the best version of your port so far, congrats!

[brocool]

Thanks!!.. this is going to be great