Challenges Versus 'Learn By Death' Frustrations

[wraggster]

A few people have written on the 'softer, kinder' ethic found in games these days — more and more games seem to be offering less challenging/frustrating mechanics so that players can actually complete them. I think a lot of this discussion does center around different play styles — after a long day of banging my head against the walls of the Ivory Tower, I don't want to come home to bang my head against the gaming wall — so I always read these essays with a critical eye. But regardless of what I (or anyone) personally like to play, it does seem like the era of extraordinarily frustrating games has passed, at least for AAA titles:

Awhile back at GDC I attended a panel that discussed taking frustration away from the player. Microsoft evidently has all sorts of metrics that show that players who are able to finish a game are more likely to purchase a sequel or order DLC, so it makes sense to take away the frustration that prohibits a player from finishing the title. These things range from automatically adjusting difficulty, creating more checkpoints, allowing saves anywhere (vs. gating at savepoints), but most importantly, not punishing death. Braid, for instance, is a perfect example of how not to punish death: You simply don’t die. You just rewind to a point previous to dying, and fix your error. There’s no need for multiple lives or continues or checkpoints. You just rewind.

Now, before I continue, I don’t think Braid is what’s wrong with gaming. In many ways, it’s what’s right. But the biggest problem with taking away “Learn by Death” is that in many ways, we’ve removed the challenge. There is little to no tension in GTA IV, because I know that if I get into trouble, I just need to die. Cops chasing you? Don’t get arrested; they’ll take away your guns. Just fight them, die, and wind up at the hospital with all of your guns still on your person. The only penalty is that you might have to replay the mission you were on, and you probably lost the stolen car you were driving at the time. Sure, there are hard parts in GTA IV.

But in the ten hours I played GTA IV I didn’t once have a nail-biter moment (at least I don’t recall many).

I think Braid can be just as punishing as any game that forces you to 'learn by death' — I find few things are worse than figuring out how to solve a puzzle, then be unable to execute it; endless rewinds aren't that far off from dying — but has the challenge really been removed from games at large? Or is it only a particular type of challenge for particular types of players? I log plenty of hours playing games I enjoy (well over the 10 hours the author spent on GTAIV and Halo 3), but I won't put in those kinds of hours if I'm playing games that challenge their players in certain kinds of ways. I hit my frustration threshold and I'm done — usually for a few weeks or a few months, if not forever. I like challenges within reason, and seek out games that hit that sweet spot between 'too much' and 'not enough.' But that sweet spot is never going to be one size fits all.

http://kotaku.com/5043833/challenges...h-frustrations

[mike_jmg]

I thought I was the only one going through this, yeah, I think games aren't as challenging as before.

This might be a good thing, cause who would want to face a frustrating game, after all the frustration we go through everyday in our job, school and relationships.

And yeah, the side effect now, is finding that sweet spot, when you beat a game and you still got that sense of achievement.

BTW, I've never beaten Mario bros 1, 2 and 3, those games are impossible for me. Maybe I'll try again later

[jamotto]

Well it is true not many Kings Quest games out there which was the ultimate trial by death game series ever created.

[elk1007]

This is not true.

Play N-Plus for the DS.
The last 10 or so levels will have you throwing your DS at a lot of things.

[mike_jmg]

This is not true.

Play N-Plus for the DS.
The last 10 or so levels will have you throwing your DS at a lot of things.

yep, I've played N-plus for the psp and it is really frustrating, maybe that's why it is called N-plus, because it's basically a (N) nes game, with slightly better graphics (plus). I hated it

[Mc_Logical]

I thought I was the only one going through this, yeah, I think games aren't as challenging as before.

This might be a good thing, cause who would want to face a frustrating game, after all the frustration we go through everyday in our job, school and relationships.

And yeah, the side effect now, is finding that sweet spot, when you beat a game and you still got that sense of achievement.

BTW, I've never beaten Mario bros 1, 2 and 3, those games are impossible for me. Maybe I'll try again later

lol mario? easy to complete, fast reactions, but yeah frustrating games make u wanna smash em lol can`t remember the last game I got that mad at though, never gave up until I done it, or just turned it off before I got mad and think its ok, its ok do in when your in the mood lol

[NeoXCS]

N stands for ninja. >_> You were joking about the name right? I loved N for the PC. (Flash game, with a better downloadable version) I bought it on my 360 for the co-op mode, not to mention it came out the earliest of the versions. (Plus only $10)

[luminouslight]

I am sorta of upset. It used to be that if you died you would never be given a second chance. I actually find punishing death to be frustrating in games because it often involves me doing things I have already done over again. I am more concerned about difficulty. Many old games I found fun is because they were challenging. Many award winning games are just not that hard anymore.

[vicious1988]

Contra, 'nuff said.