...ISO questions...

[Cap'n 1time]

ive never abused my power.. actually i used to be a real asshole on this board. Im only being nice because I AM A MOD and Dark Savior will eat my soul if I dont. I dont have ban rights and I wouldnt ban you in the first place because you havnt really done anything wrong (besides drag this conversation to hell).

As for the "you"s I meant to replace them with "warez $#@!s" but I got side tracked. The reason I dont steal is because of my perfered community... The Linux community has everything done for them for free.. so we really dont need to steal. I dont see a point in damaging a company because you.. excuse me *warez $#@!s* want to play your ISOz.

I honestly dont do it.. and this might seem a bit complexed for you but bare with me... I DONT DO IT BECAUSE ITS WRONG, ITS KILLING THE INTERNET, AND IT MAKES COMPANIES WASTE MORE TIME TRYING TO PROTECT THEIR SOFTWARE RATHER THAN DEVELOPING IT. Im sorry if this isnt "mature" enough for you, but its just how I feel. Actually if you just dont discuss it because "WRAGGSTER SAYS SO" then you need to get the **** out of our forums because your not here for our news. The scene started with Mr Brown and all thoes fine people at ps2dev who have the same opinion on *warez $#@!s*. They created the open source pspsdk in hopes that it would be used to port and create games and emulators. Naturally the *warez $#@!s* hijacked it and used it for their "UMD EMULATORS" and "ISOz". So you see, it really did start with HOMEBREW and that is what THE SCENE is about.

and here comes another annoyingly long argumentative post from you... excuse me the *warez $#@!*
VVVVVVV

[Heran_Bago]

Kaiser, you are very cool. You make excellent, non-radical points, and the internet would be a much better place if everyone were you.

I honestly dont do it.. and this might seem a bit complexed for you but bare with me... I DONT DO IT BECAUSE ITS WRONG, ITS KILLING THE INTERNET, AND IT MAKES COMPANIES WASTE MORE TIME TRYING TO PROTECT THEIR SOFTWARE RATHER THAN DEVELOPING IT.

I'm really sorry. You're never going to understand the difference the legal and illegal. I understand that people like you will never understand. You can hold the community back all you want.

The reason I dont steal is because of my perfered community... The Linux community has everything done for them for free.. so we really dont need to steal. I dont see a point in damaging a company

I am not interested in stealing. You are the one who keeps bringing it up. Why do you talk about it so much? It's almost like you're trying to cover up...

you.. excuse me *warez $#@!s* want to play your ISOz.

Now you're not only trying to insult me personally, but you're making false accusations. As I said, I'm interested in EDITING backups of games I own, backups which I make and play myself. Remember before it was announced for release in the US, a team was translating Popolocrois? They would not be allowed to post the translated files or explain how to play them, because it contains a heafty deal of ISO discussion.

you... excuse me the *warez $#@!*

Do we have to play that game? Is all you can do call me names? Why don't you respond to the points I've made in earlier posts, or backup with you say with evidence. You know, facts, logos. Untill you can properly make an organized comeback, I reccomend you train on Usenet, IRC, or even 4chan. I, however, won't rip on spelling or grammar (I suck too =P).

[Cap'n 1time]

Im sorry, Translation has little to do with ISO's. Yes you need a rip... but there is no need to discuss the fact that you have it. In fact nexis2600/psmonkey was originally working on a BOF tranlsation for psp here. If my insults seemed personal, they were. Your being a real wise ass. You have not proven anything, all you have done is maybe impress yourself...

On a final note, its perfectly possible to run translation with a program replacing the text and game data loading from the UMD... ISO's are still not nessicary. Though the process of the actually translation might require you to rip information from the UMD There is no need to discuss how.

[RedKing14CA]

Downloading video games, downloading movies, and downloading music has nothing to do with pirating UNLESSS you burn a movie, game, or some music to a CD or DVD and sell it to some one...

Just please stop calling it pirating (iso emulation), and stop calling it illegal...

im sorry if its illegal in the UK... its not illegal in the US and if they make it illegal it would be very stupid and unconstitutional (kinda like gay marriege, licences [drivers, fishing, hunting, etc.] seat belts, and forcing school upon us [its called truency?])

i under stand your annoyed, and im not telling you to change the rules or anything, just please stop calling it illegal, or pirating...

[Kaiser]

Downloading video games, downloading movies, and downloading music has nothing to do with pirating UNLESSS you burn a movie, game, or some music to a CD or DVD and sell it to some one...

NO, Its illegal to download them at all. Listen to yourself, you couldn't be more wrong. The only and I mean only way your ISO's/burnt games are legal is if you copies the exact version you have. I mean exact, downloading someone ELSE'S copied game doesn't cut it even if you have that game.

Just please stop calling it pirating (iso emulation), and stop calling it illegal...

im sorry if its illegal in the UK... its not illegal in the US and if they make it illegal it would be very stupid and unconstitutional (kinda like gay marriege, licences [drivers, fishing, hunting, etc.] seat belts, and forcing school upon us [its called truency?])

Some of the $#@! here you mention has no relevency to this discussion whatsover. FORCING SCHOOL UPON US?, LICENCES ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL? Don't even start completely one sided arguments like those. Its like arguing that the world is flat you cannot win.

i under stand your annoyed, and im not telling you to change the rules or anything, just please stop calling it illegal, or pirating...

We will never call it legal because it simply isen't. Heran_Bago was keeping the argument quite moderate and he had many good points. He never argued in a non-sensical way like you just did. Even if we disagreed on parts the arguement was kept clean. Don't lie about something that is common knowledge and undisputable. Its just stupid.

[Heran_Bago]

just please stop calling it illegal, or pirating...

No. It's both. Playing a game you don't own is illegal and considered piracy. Welcome to the internet.

its perfectly possible to run translation with a program replacing the text and game data loading from the UMD... ISO's are still not nessicary.

In the history of console game translations, I can't remember a single time that it wasn't released as a modded copy of the game, or a patch which you apply to a copy of the game. Think any translation for the SNES, Genesis, GBA. Translation is nearly always modifying a game to make it english. Why would a group go way out of their way to take a non-traditional, difficult approach? They wouldn't. It's rediculous, and to assume that people would go out of their way for ONE board that doesn't discuss playing backups is rediculous.

If my insults seemed personal, they were. Your being a real wise ass. You have not proven anything, all you have done is maybe impress yourself.

Ok, so rather than and organized debate, you'd rather turn it into an insult match? That's pathetic. You stickied a thread just so you can call names at people. Notice how I avoided playing this game earlier? Notice how I changed the way Kaiser looks at ISOs? Of course not. If I were to play your game, I could easily prove you're a failure as a mod, a reasoning human, and a luddite. However, I have clearly stated my points, not just oppinions, and backed them up with factual evidence. I encourage you to stop making yourself look bad and back up your points with examples like Kaiser.

[Kaiser]

The arguemnt about if its possible to modify games without posting ISO's is outside my knowledge. But I'd like to say that its not worth looking into if any ISO discussion or releases of any ISO's is needed.

I changed the way Kaiser looks at ISOs?

For the record I still think any discussion of "legal back-ups" shouldn't be allowed. Even if so called discussion is for legal modifying and the like its still not worth it. My argument is somewhat different now do to this discussion but I still support how wraggster has the rules set up. The reasoning behind wraggster's so called "picking and choosing of rules" is he encourages development on the PSP as long as it doesn't hurt the PSP scene or sales. I agree with wraggsters rules and I think no changes are needed. At least not the way your saying they should change.

Fact: Emulators and homebrew for the PSP are good. They make another reason to buy the PSP and indirectly can/will help its sales.

Fact: Loaders and ISOs discussion even within the legal spectrum do in fact harm the PSP scene. Any legal discussion of it which includes modifying the game will only lead to true illegal piracy. Sure that can be kept legal but not for long as someone will exploit the openess of the discussions and it will lead to piracy. Well your right that discussion of it is bound to lead to increased interest. Of those interested people I'd say most of them would at least attempt it. If all this discussion was allowed and the information was out there, well connect the dots, it would lead to more piracy occuring because of how easy it is. I understand what your saying about the difference between doing and saying. I'm juts saying most people won't just say "Oh, thats interesting!" and then completely forget it and not even try it.

Even though this information is easy to find at other sites anyway. I don't think dcemu should just blindly support it from peer-pressure either. Dcemu is trying to create its own scene with a responisble community who avoids the darker side of homebrew developoment. Just because something is legal doesn't mean that its good for the system and its certainly not worth creating legal "back-ups" and "modifications" when this kills the PSP. Hell, I'm actually for modifications but when the games are still in production its not worth the risk of modifying when it can hurt the system in the form of piracy.

That is my current argument and standing. My quote has been edited to combine a number of posts as well.

[Heran_Bago]

Fact: Emulators and homebrew for the PSP are good. They make another reason to buy the PSP and indirectly can/will help its sales.

Very much agreed. Piracy isn't a big factor in why people buy PSPs because frankly, there are no good commercial games, and UMD movies (and music) sales are stilll far behind DVDs and CDs.

Fact: Loaders and ISOs discussion even within the legal spectrum do in fact harm the PSP scene.

Discussion, no. Piracy? Yes. However if a board limits to legal discussion only, then piracy has nothing to do with the board itself. There are pleanty of people who find out about homebrew and that leads to piracy off of homebrew boards. People will find out about piracy weather or not a board has legal discussion. However illegal discussion (posting links, torrents, etc) are downright harmfull, and up the ease and mobility of piracy.

Any legal discussion of it which includes modifying the game will only lead to true illegal piracy.

Once again, game translations and all software mods.

Sure that can be kept legal but not for long as someone will exploit the openess of the discussions and it will lead to piracy.

If mods do their job, this can be avoided. however I understand why you might not think the mods are up to the challenge. It's probably best that ISO discussion be avoided on this paticular board, as the competency of the staff is questionable at best. Like that old saying, better to be an idiot than a criminal, ey?

Piracy is never going to be a major problem for this system as there aren't enough games that are good enough for people to want to pay for. If person A doesn't buy a game because its bad, and person B gets the game without paying, the result is the same for a company. The people that are interested will always find piracy. And when people find out they can run home-made games, they look into running real games. It's what happens, and its caled the internet. Just by helping run homebrew on the newer firmwares, it's helping the pirates. Homebrew is basically weed, where piracy is heroine. SOny'd like both the harmfull drug and the gateway drug illegal.

[Cap'n 1time]

OK.. calming down. I apologize for my last statments, they were uncalled for and dare I say, stupid. Your an alright guy Heran_Bago, and a real hardass at the same time (a noble trait).

Starting from the VERY begining.

Homebrew is in no way harmful. If you know your facts about the xbox, then you know that the Software Dev Kit was stolen and leaked on the internet. This is not the case for the psp. The opensource PSPSDK was developed from scratch legally, but we arent going to go into that.

Now here is the iffy part. WHAT IS THE DIFFERANCE BETWEEN DOWNLOADING ROMS AND DOWNLOADING PSP ISO'S?

Morally... nothing. They are both wrong. Both are illegal rips of game content.
However Downloading Roms from dead machines is not harming the companies or costing them money.. so they dont care... this discussion continued later. I have to go

[Xan]

For roms there are legal sites where you pay monthly fee and can dl old games.
Site owner makes money , compay gets some money for stuff that would never normaly sell and you can just dl them legaly.
Not gona post link but search for yourself 10-15$ per month isnt that much ;/.