Have You Noticed.

[nexus one]

Oh, so just because it is expensive, it condones piracy? Great arguement. If you dont like, dont buy it. Where the heck does the piracy factor fall in?

If the price was lower, more people would be open to dropping a little bit of cash on a game to see if it was good, rather than downloading it. It's simple first year economics. If the price is too high, a black market opens up.

And lets face it, the price is too high.

Sony - it's a handheld. The games aren't at the same quality level as the ps2/xbox/pc/gcn equivalent. Drop the price to reflect this, and you won't have any more problems.

Illegalmachine - Saying you got banned from other forums probably doesn't help your case. Having said that, there's no excuse whatsoever for 1timeuser's behaviour.

[babu]

Oh, so just because it is expensive, it condones piracy? Great arguement. If you dont like, dont buy it. Where the heck does the piracy factor fall in?

what nexus one said is true, and it has been applied to multi-billion dollor market, such as music, I won't say the same of the programs, but they are out there, you just do a simple search of artist/name of the song/album and BHAM u got thousands of user to download from, if u still didn't understand, i'am talking about p2p. Now that market 'says' it was suffering from piracy, but who in their right mind would buy a cd that had 10 crappy song and only 1 song that a user wants. With all the piracy and the disapproval from the general public, forced the music market to change the way it does business, software like itunes were built where u can get 1 song for $0.99 cents and not have to buy the whole CD. So does music industry still suffer from piracy, Sadly YES, but is it adapting, Sadly YES, <-- that's a joke

No why can't this business model be applied to other markets

I think Kaiser said it best, most of us doing some form of piracy( roms is still piracy, justifying that it's old and doesn't effect the current console, is wrong) and even if you are not, rule of this site is that there should be no discussion about it. I can more then happly live with that.

But i think the problem started when wraggster says that in his opion other websites that don't condone the distribution of iso/ROM should be shut down. If he has the right to discuss about anti-piracy rulz of other sites then user who don't agree with him should have the right to speak up in favour of piracy atleast. My point is if we try to expand the scope of dcemu site rulz on other sites, it will upset alot of ppl. <-- does this remind you of anything, Bush, Iraq war. err I went off topic again

Piracy is wrong and inmoral, but not everyone has same moral. so we should stop deciding for other ppl. Let them make up their own mind

[Illegal Machine]

Saying you got banned from other forums probably doesn't help your case. Having said that, there's no excuse whatsoever for 1timeuser's behaviour.

take that back.

You basicly just condoned that behavior here and elsewhere.


Besides that was a 15 year old kid that banned me, if you ask me there should be an age cap for mods..


plus I was being really really really insulting in that thread

[Darksaviour69]

one point is really being looked over. the one that gets effected the most is not the publishers or sony... its the developers. Developers are going out of business left right and center! Think about it, the casual gamer that does not have the technical know how to pirate games buys all the crap fifa, and crapy movie tie in games, at full price.

people that pirate tend to be more hardcore gamers that play the better rare games, but they are being stolen! the publishers can handle the loss but the developers go out of business. its one reason why there are less great, different games and loads of the same crapy driving, fps, movie tie in games.

as you may or may not know there are still the odd releases for the dreamcast, some from japan some from independent publishers (GOAT store). not many games are printed (1000-5000?) so every sale counts. The is a so called dreamcast fan site out there that releases torrents of theses games, and so called dreamcast fans download them... but in the end it will just kill of the DC quicker as there will not be enough sales to justify releasing more games!


as for 1timeuser. he made a mistake, he came to me and pointed it out and asked for advise. he has been warned not to do it again. But i would much rather a mod that admits when he makes a mistake than one that trys to cover it up.

we all made mistakes, and we will all keep making mistakes. whats more important is that we learn from then... which i belive that 1timeuser has.

[Cap'n 1time]

I guess it would have been better if i didnt appologize then? I tell you what, when you all become mods you can fix mistakes your way. Right now all I can do is learn from my mistakes and move on.

Illegal machine, I never did ban you. I dont even have ban rights.. I posted your IP address for about 3 mins, which is bad enough I suppose.. I then went on IRC and explained my actions to DS (pretty much 2nd in command around here) and he kindly asked me to appolgize.. so I did. If you want to try to have me removed contact DarkSavior or wraggster either via PM or on irc on Efnet in the #dcemu channel. But stay on topic here. In fact you never were on topic.. This topic is about Ads and spam that damage the scene.

The rules say to stay on topic and if this discussion continues I will be forced to close this topic. Now quit your bitching.

[yaustar]

If the price was lower, more people would be open to dropping a little bit of cash on a game to see if it was good, rather than downloading it. It's simple first year economics. If the price is too high, a black market opens up.

Would they though? You be surprised how many people pirate games regardless of the cost just becuase they can get it for 'free'. If I wanted to buy a game a loweer price, I wait till it hits budget, buy online, or ebay/second hand. I don't go away and download an ISO just becuase I cant afford it yet.

I dont disagree with your point (Xbox Live Arcade is thriving at the moment), I just dont feel that it can be used as a reason/excuse for piracy (a matter of personal ethics here).

The main problem with rising prices is due because the main stream want bigger and better games, which ups development costs, time and budget to stupid numbers (even worse when the PS3 hits the market). Thanks to uncreased factors, developers can only afford to develop garunteed (sp?) 'AAA@ best seller titles and to do that they have to fall back on tried and tested formulas and IPs for hits (sequels, movie tie ins) just because they will sell.

What makes it worse is that publishers and retailers take around 80% or more (cant remember the exact figures) of the total cover price of a game. This is why smaller independent companies have disappeared / merged with larger ones in the past year or so.

Thankfully some developers are taking steps to new distrubution methods, Xbox Live Arcade and Steam (Introversion are using to distribute Darwinia) are good examples.

At the moment the PSP is just being used by developers to make some quick instant cash because the development time for a port from a PS2 verison is so short, they can still turn a small profit even if a samll number were sold.

[Illegal Machine]

Now if someone is trying to charge money for that which should be free... well go to the store and look at a bottle of water and tell me what you think of that. BUYER BEWARE comes to mind somehow.. I'd charge someone 10 bucks to downgrade thier PSP. Just like some jerk would charge me a few hundred bucks to do work on my car. this is a service economy. if you have a friend thats willing to do it for free... DON'T pay. if you feel like paying, don't blame the guy charging. these users don't have to pay for anything. they choose to.


and those of you considering "telling" on others for what they're up to, DON'T.

it's none of your business. Go join the police force and stop real crimes of you're SOOO concerned about someones safety, because I assure you the stockholders and corporate officers over at Sony wouldn't even piss on your head if it was on fire.

K thanks

Ummmmm this was the first post I made?


And its on topic... it wasnt untill YOU and your ilk started attacking me for condoning the use of ISOS that YOU took it off topic



and Apology denied!


I want you OFF this board forever. And I'm going to write a letter every time I think about it requesting to remove YOU.


I don't care if you had a bad day, I don't care if your daddy kicks your ass, I don't care if you had a test that day and didnt sleep for a week beforehand. Theres no excuse, and YOU are NOT excused for your actions.


We arent friends, I didnt insult YOU, I WAS on topic, and what did you do?


WHAT DID YOU DO?


I hope you're sorry, and I hope you remember this.

I think you're worthless 1timeuser. Id sit here and insult you but I learned my lesson with that..

if I did that I'd get banned.


You can apolgize forever and ever.

It was uncalled for.

[Cap'n 1time]

... stop

putting spaces

between everything.
And your just being a whiny ninny. I dont care if you dont accept my apology and honestly i wont loose a wink of sleep. Your working your way twards deserrving a ban actually. and i still really dont think that is on topic. What does that have to do wtih googles random advertising?

[nexus one]

1timeuser, stop being so pathetic.

The IP address you are able to see is provided to you for security purposes, it should never be posted to the general public. NEVER. In the seven-odd years I have used the internet, this is the first time I have ever seen anyones IP posted within a forum. It's disgraceful and disgusting, and there was absolutely no reason for it to happen in the first place.

You think no one saw it? Take a look at the amount of hits this website gets per day and think again. There's an awful lot of people with PSP's who use the internet. This is one of the largest sites for the community. 3 minutes can be a very long time, and in that three minutes, you may have very well have threatened the right to anonymity that that Illegal Machine has, as well as the security of the computer he uses.

You're supposed to be a moderator. This is an internet forum for general discussion. The freaking webmaster opens up a discussion about piracy, and the FIRST user to post an (intellegent, well thought out) response gets gets their private data posted online? What kind of a community are you running here? If this is how you handle this, I'd hate to see how you'd handle a serious event, you know, the kind that your position was designed for...

For what it's worth, I actually found his post informative. Especially the last few lines about the officers and stockholders. I had never thought about it that way. It shows that this user is probably more beneficial than 95% of the other users on this board, and you just kicked him in the teeth for declaring his thoughts.

And he's right. He didn't go off track. You did. You started all this. What kind of response were you expecting? We'd all laugh and think what a great moderator 1sttimeuser is? I know I certainly don't see this from your side, and I can't imagine anyone else does.

I think it's good that you apologised. Well done. Too bad it was completely half-hearted and transparent. If it was me, I wouldn't accept it either. Again, you showed your worth by abusing the poor guy's writing style, threating him with a ban and posting an immature picture.

Webmasters, Admins, etc... Is this really what you want from a moderator? Is he providing the service you expect? Does he serve ANY purpose, other than to bring down the reputation of this website you have worked so hard to create? If this is standard procedure for these forums then you can expect to lose many members, myself included.

Should this discussion be taken to PM? Possibly... but I don't think so. This matter was made public by 1timeuser, who moderates the site, so it deserves to stay public. No doubt the thread will be closed because it's 'turned into a personal attack' or 'gone off topic'. That will be a shame. It reminds me of high school where the teachers could as they pleased, but if the students revolted, they were given detention. The topic of conversation has changed somewhat, yes. But that's what keeps threads interesting.

I'll make an effort to get back on track, nonetheless.
First, lets look at movies. I'll see a movie once in the cinema. If it's a really really good film, I'll see it twice, and if it still blows my mind, I'll buy the DVD. So thats $10+$10+$15 (total: $35) they've made out of me. At the most. Not every consumer will spend that much. (The prices are approximates, I'm not American). A movie costs a lot to make. A cheap hollywood movie is around $50 million. Yet there's profit to be made there.
A game costs $50, maybe more in some cases, and I can't recall any game that costs more than, say, $10 million to make. At the most.
Do you see what my point is? Movies are really expensive to make, yet the average consumer spends around $10-$20 on it. Games, in comparison, are relatively cheap to make, yet cost $50.
On top of that, they say the games industry has taken over the movie industry in terms of revenue. If a game studio goes out of business, it's because they're making crap games. Most other companies seem to have the cash rolling in.

Now lets look at the music industry. I bring this up because of what yaustar said:

At the moment the PSP is just being used by developers to make some quick instant cash because the development time for a port from a PS2 verison is so short, they can still turn a small profit even if a samll number were sold.

This is the case in the music industry. Don't believe me? Read Richard Branson's autobiography 'Losing my Virginity'. The guy that started Virgin records, for those of you who don't know. In it, he describes the business model of Virgin records. He talks about how he uses the profits of the popular, cheap artists to support the costs of the other artists who aren't doing so well. When the popular artist (Mike Oldfield, I believe) finds this out, he goes off his tree. He feels that he's being ripped off and abused by the record company.
This, is sort of how I feel the developers are treating us. The PSP is a money making scheme for half of them. Scale down the PS2 release, charge full price for it. It's a no brainer, really. Kind of like charging full price for a Greatest Hits CD. It's mostly profit due to it requiring a lot less work than the other versions. It shows, too. Most of the ports we receive feel incomplete and substandard. In comparision, most of the original titles (Wipeout Pure and Lumines spring to mind) feel very polished. It's not these titles I have a problem with, it's the rip off ports that I despise, and the PSP is bloody full of them.

$50 to buy NBA 06, or whatver for the home console.
$50 to buy a scaled down, shoddy, buggy version. Where's the incentive? 'It's advantage is portablity' I hear you say. Big deal, that doesn't affect the development one bit. 'You can't fit as much on a UMD'. Whatever. You can fit 1.8gigs on a UMD, and most games don't come close to that at all. If they did, it would actually REDUCE piracy, as minimal people would be able to fit them on their Memory Sticks. I know the PSP doesn't have the graphical power of it's bigger brother. Despite Sony's claims that it did, I understand that it's not possible, and accept that, so I'm not asking for graphical wizardry. I'm asking for a bit of polish and a sense of money well spent.

[Illegal Machine]

Right on Nexus, as usual.

this isnt the first time Ive seen "mods" abuse thier position because they lost an argument, or decided to be a little kid.

He's just upset about something else in his life and he's taking it out on here.


and he seems to have major control issues too. w/e



Back on to topic... I agree, these Video game companies, movie makers, and thier associated retailers have been making a killing off of us, over and over, so now the PSP comes out, and its AWESOME to say the least, but I just can't even fathom how much money sony pays to close out homebrew and other things.


now as far as Google is concerned, Well... They arent the censorship board, and are pretty much just a big company/program/service. With the amount of traffic the internet sees, and the new uploads, sites, and searches that happen on a daily basis, I can't see google monitoring everyone and everything, and I wouldnt want them to either. Honestly Im glad that some people are at least advertising the "true" features that the PSP posesses. whether its this site, or some asshole trying to charge for a downgrader, and not giving a damn if whoever is downloading it has a 2.6 undowngradable PSP or not. Whatever you do, you have to do your homework. If you need a new hubcap for your cadillac, and go out and get the wrong thing, should that store you bought the Lincoln hubcap at stop advertising? nope. and maybe you could go somewhere and see people giving cadillac hubcaps away for free. then you'd feel really ripped off, but you couldnt blame anyone but yourself for not knowing.


people can't control each other, they try a lot, and most of the time they succeed, but its all a bunch of BS.

Live and let live. if there are people out there trying to make a buck off of the PSP, let em. Should Google shut down ALL of the rom sites? Hell no.

never