Making a new 3d RPG, looking for help

[b8a]

Ouch! You had me interested until you said that it was going to be a 3D remake of Ys!!! (!_!)

Sorry, but I'm not a fan of 3D to begin with and Ys was one of those very special 2D games, so it just sounds like a sin to remake it in 3D. Didn't <a href="http://www.falcom.co.jp">Falcom</a> already do a dropdown 3D remake for the pc though? Even in the newest 3D installments, they've been keeping a strong 2D feel to the game so far.

But hey, not trying to criticize! It would actually be pretty interesting to see a well done full 3D remake, so good luck!

[jman420]

Ouch?, you had me annoyed after you said "until"??? (-\/-)

3D would not cause the game to be any different.. I still designed the modeles on a specific 2d basis, as well as the fact that everything is set up to be rendered as 3d, from a top down 2d camera.. Y's Eternal was a poorly made "3D" rendition.. but Falcom accualy wrecked the game intirely with the way they did it.. Aron moved to fast, the graphics were the 3d rendered background, and 2d animated crappy looking character level..

I dont think its exactly fair to say that I would molest the game.. I think that Y's the Vannished omens was the greatest game ever, with the most ingenious music ever.. and it would kick some ass to remake it in a new way for the people to play..
Because you see, nobody else seems to like the 2d based game.. Nobody else I know has ever played it because the graphics on the Sega Master System, and Turbo Grafx CD (both of which I own :P) the graphics just.... suck.. thats why I have always wanted to do a proper remake of the game.. Just to bring the game back to a system that could handle it.. (And I have always wanted Y's to be on a handheld system..)

but.. It accualy matters not.. I dont think I am going to find help making the game anyway..

[jman420]

well, I'm not sure on what I realy want to do.. there is so many syndicated games I want to bring back to the people.. another game I have been working on models for is Final Fantasy Mystic Quest (originaly on SNES) That would be another game I would enjoy making in 3d.. only, proper 3d.. I do beleave that all RPG games must be a top down view.. none of this final fantasy 7-X2 retarded camera movement, and pre-rendered backgrounds.. .. .. .. .. anyway.. yeah.. I would like to work on somthing.. even if its just a new design for a new game.. I would like to work with someone that respects RPG gaming as I do..

Music has to haul ass..
Graphics have to have a hint of old-school while being the best quality possible..
and controls must be easy

alright, off to work on more models

[jairolas]

sorry

[cloud_952]

none of this final fantasy 7-X2 retarded camera movement, and pre-rendered backgrounds..

Okay.. correct on the pre-rendered backgrounds. Won't argue that. O_o But I'd like to know which alternate universe's FF7, FF8, and FF9 you were playing. While it HAS been awhile since I've played 8 and 9, so I can't say with absolute certainty (though I am confident), I know for a fact that FF7 had a fixed camera for the majority of the game, as did all the other PSX FF games. There was some scrolling, but that exists in 2D games as well.

=p Just had to mention that.

[b8a]

Oooh, sorry, I reread my post and that does sound overly critical. This is already well off-topic, but if people don't want to play the original Ys because the graphics are 10+ years old, it's their loss! I still go back to those games every once in a while, and other than the cinematic cut scenes which really show their age, it still holds up as an extremely good game today and once you start playing it, you don't really notice that the graphics aren't rendered in millions of colors. As you said, the music is killer, and there aren't many games today that can match it on that level, so, while in some regards the game is way behind modern technology, in other areas, it's still much further ahead. I played Ys on the TGCD about 6 years before FF7 for the PSone came out, so I figured for sure that Square would've taken the hint and given the game a full blown soundtrack optomizing the storage capacity of the CD medium. Unfortunately they didn't, and that was just one of the many areas where FF7 majorly disappointed. To your list of gripes about the camera movement and (sometimes awful) prerendered backgrounds, I add it's preachy, drawn out story, weak characters, and repetitive, uninvolving game play.

I hear your desire to work on a RPG game, but unfortunately I can't offer a lick of help as far as console programming. Just another graphicker, like yourself. I actually don't think it would be too hard to find a programmer, and there are lots of talented musicians who would be able to offer fitting scores, but I think the real sticking point would be finding a talented writer. RPG's always come down to the strength of their story, and quite frankely I think a devoted scenario planner and script writer would be an absolute must for a homebrew RPG project, and unfortunately, that seems to be the one area where I think it would be hard to find someone, errr, how should I say it, <i>gifted</i> enough to fit the bill. The Caelistis project really sounds pretty exciting, but from what I read on this board, it does look like this is one area that it's seriously laking in (I could be wrong, the post's author seemed like he was being vague on purpose).

[jman420]

ok A..
Cloud, all the backgrounds on FF7, 8 and 9 were pre-rendered bitmaps set on a flat surface and panned across. None of the backgrounds (except of course the world map) were on-the-fly rendered..

B.
B8a, Yeah, in fact.. I am listening to Y's music right now :P ... yes Falcom never realy got the whole musical score perfect.. but thats one of the reasons that I still prefer the SMS version.. Just plain ole' Square wave sounds .. and I dont quite understand what your saying about Caelestis.. do you mean that TurkeyMan was being vague? either way.. No, it will have story line Turkey and I are currently just trying to get out a demo with as much detail as we can.. neither of us have enough time to realy work on the project.. but we do.. he built the engine and programs all the game.. I work on 3d and music.. we both throw story ideas back and forth.. but yeah.. its not going to be lacking anything

[b8a]

I really hope that Caelestis isn't lacking anything. Right now it's the homebrew game that has the most potential in my opinion... But then again that's partly because so little is known about it (!_!) I think I just got jazzed over it when I read that he was planning on giving it a Seikendestsu-like style.

But, if you really don't have enough time to work on Caelestis as it is, what are you doing petitioning help for a new project here for? Honestly, I think you should put all your apples in the Caelestis project-cart and just focus on that. Deffinately sounds like it's got a good solid base going worthy of some hard work. TurkeyMan generated a lot of interest with his original posting about the project, and I promise you that if it lives up to be half of what's been promoted, then you guys won't have any problems finding eager help on future projects.

[cloud_952]

o_o Yes.. I know that the bgs in FF7, 8, and 9 were pre-rendered. I said that. But they didn't have a moving camera. X and X-2 were reversed, in that the camera was not fixed, but their backgrounds were not pre-rendered.

As for the discussion on the music in FFVII, there was an interesting interview with Nobuo Uematsu on why they had to use MIDIs and other compressed music and not true cd-audio. He was actually excited about using it as well, but since FFVII used uncompressed movie files, and the game had a pretty epic reach (for its time), they didn't have the space to spare to use true cd-quality audio.

I don't know any online sources for it, however, it's in "Power Up" by Chris Kohler, chapter 5. ^_^ Quite an interesting book.

As for the topic at hand, I do think it sounds like an interesting project. I rather enjoy older RPGs, having started with the first FF when I was young, but I have to admit that I've never actually played any of the Ys games. O_o Odd indeed. However, you might want to consider posting this in another forum, as "submit news" really gets a different audience. Might want to look under one of the homebrew forums, maybe?

[jman420]

ok first off,
b8a, I have been working on modeling Y's, thats why I dont have much time for caelestis.. And the project only just got its writer lastnight (we have been working blindly for months) and I dont beleave that its going to be done for quite some time just because the writer wants to **** the whole project over from where Turkey and I got it to....

and cloud, I dont remember how this argument got started but I have never lost an arguement before :P I know that in FFX and FFX2 the camera moves, it still try's to keep that look of FF7-9 the look of pre-rendered backgrounds, all that I was saying anyway was that if I make a game, it has to keep the camera of all the GOOD RPG's, Y's, Final Fantasy Mystic Quest, Star Tropics, The Legend of Heroes, Dragon Warrior, its just somthing I have loved about older RPG games, the view that allows you to see all around you.. and absolutly no random encounters... the most annoying invention for RPG games ever.. there is nothing worse then a night when your realy fudgin' stoned trying to play some FF9 and BWOOOSH!!!! ( battle music starts ) it scares the crap outa you...
anyway.. yeah and I said nothing about FF7 with its MIDI music, I downloaded that version (but didnt like it, so I deleated it again) FF7 for the PS1 is what was more inportant, (Not MIDI)

anyway, this post has gone on to far...
thanks,
Jman420