Need a good story and dialogue for a game?

[Shadowblind]

Yaustar has a point. Game design ( as in storyline) will be created by the coder of the game IF he/she either wants to or is the only person working on it.

If its a team project, then the game coder will want some1 else to do the storyline in place of him/her, so that they may be able to double the work effort.

[b8a]

So far, only your first post has caught my attention. In your series of posts since, instead of solidifying the strong stance that you took in your first post, it only seems like you've diluted it. The bottom line is that the project goes nowhere without, first and foremost, a workable story. I don't know where you've gotten some of your ideas, but I think you have more than a few things backward.

Firstly, the production process in the real world goes something like this (modified and abbreviated from an actual production flowchart):
<div style="width:95%; margin: auto; margin-top: 1%; margin-bottom: 1%; padding:10px; border:2px dashed black; text-align:center"><div style="border:5px solid black; padding:10px"><u><b>Pre-Production</b></u><hr style="visibility:hidden" /><span style="padding:5px; border:1px solid black">Concept</span><hr style="visibility:hidden" />↓<hr style="visibility:hidden" /><span style="padding:5px; border:1px solid black">Synopsis</span><hr style="visibility:hidden" />↓<hr style="visibility:hidden" /><span style="padding:5px; border:1px solid black">Script</span><hr style="visibility:hidden" />↓<hr style="visibility:hidden" /><span style="padding:5px; border:1px solid black">Mockup</span><hr style="visibility:hidden" />↓<hr style="visibility:hidden" /><div style="padding:10px; border:1px solid black">Design<hr style="visibility:hidden" /><span style="padding:5px; border:1px solid black; margin:20px">Art Boards</span><span style="padding:5px; border:1px solid black; margin:20px">Characters</span><span style="padding:5px; border:1px solid black; margin:20px">Stage Layout</span><span style="padding:5px; border:1px solid black; margin:20px">UI</span></div></div><hr style="visibility:hidden" />↓<div style="border:5px solid black; padding:10px"><u><b>Production</b></u><hr style="visibility:hidden" /><span style="padding:5px; border:1px solid black; margin:20px">Code</span><span style="padding:5px; border:1px solid black; margin:20px">Visuals</span><span style="padding:5px; border:1px solid black; margin:20px">Sound</span><hr style="visibility:hidden" />↓<hr style="visibility:hidden" /><span style="padding:5px; border:1px solid black">Alpha/Beta version(s)</span></div><hr style="visibility:hidden" />↓<div style="border:5px solid black; padding:10px"><u><b>Post-Production</b></u><hr style="visibility:hidden" /><div><span style="padding:5px; border:1px solid black; margin:20px">Test</span><span style="padding:5px; border:1px solid black; margin:20px">Debug</span></div><hr style="visibility:hidden" />↓<hr style="visibility:hidden" /><span style="padding:5px; border:1px solid black">Finished Product</span></div><hr style="visibility:hidden" />↓<div style="border:5px solid black; padding:10px"><u><b>Release</b></u></div></div>
Meaning that, when you said you had a story, the natural assumption was that you already had not only (obviously), the script, but also a solid concept and at least a good idea of the planning. I applaud you for being open to input from the people you're working with, but if you're writing a story, you need to bring it to the table first and be ready to make minor adjustments to accommodate that input. If I were to become involved in this, I can guarantee that I wouldn't be shy about giving my input into any ideas I may have as to what may make the story work better or make for a better game, but I'm not a writer, I have no ambitions to be one, and I really don't want to worry about the story -- at all. So as far as I'm concerned, if the story isn't ready at the point I enter the project, my assumption is that it 's never going to be, or that it's ultimately going to fall on me to complete it. This has happened more than once in the past. I speak from experience. It's an awful, inefficient, and extremely unproductive way to work.

Incidentally, this is precisely why I said "this is the part of the development process that I dread the most". It's so fundamental that it has to be done right from the get go, and when it isn't, the planning is shot to he*l, and coding without a solid plan is a nightmare. You constantly have to rewrite code, which can take countless hours, as opposed to the relatively much shorter time it takes to simply assure that you have a solid story and plan to begin with. I don't know his specific reasons, but I'd be willing to bet this is the exact reason why you lost Yaustar's interest.

And it's really unfortunate that you did, because I won't deny that he has a much more solid understanding of coding concepts than I do. I have some real-world experience, but no formal training, and I couldn't hold a candle to his extensive education. I'm confidant that I could code a fairly basic RPG (I don't know why you say they're anything but simple, because they really are), but there would be a bit of a learning curve for me if you were looking to implement a more active battle system.

And it's not just the coding that suffers from starting production prematurely before the story is ready. You said that first we'd need characters and sprites. Being the writer, characters are up to you, and sprites are fairly labor intensive and it would be a pain in the neck to have to change a whole tile sheet to accommodate potential story changes. For example, say you have a character that you conceive and draw a tile sheet for. Then, later on you come up with an amazing plot twist that depends on the character having a peg leg. You would then have to go through every pose on the tilesheet and correct the leg to accommodate the change (Either that or throw out an exciting story development). Much like coding, it's more of a pain in the neck to accommodate changes in the story than it is to just wait for a solid story and do it right the first time. If you feel you absolutely need some visual inspiration or reference for the story, I suggest that you head over to <a href="http://www.deviantart.com" target="_blank">www.deviantart.com</a> (or other such sites) and check out the many pieces of production-art quality work there. There should be more than enough to get your imagination going.

It looks like you're chomping at the bit to get going on this, but I personally wouldn't be available to devote any real time to this for at least a month. Even then, as things stand at this moment, you've only presented a relatively uninspiring cookie-cutter plan that I would find hard to get behind. Once again, speaking from experience, this has all the hallmarks of a tragically doomed project.

If you're serious about recruiting a coder to work with, I strongly urge you to write. A lot. Hammering out the details of this one specific plan is a given, but I'd also encourage you to put together a website with a sampling of what you have to offer as a writer. Give perspective coders some confidence that you'll actually complete your end of the job, and give them an idea of what concepts you're personally apt to write about as well.

It sounds like you have a pretty good idea of the game you'd like to make (you have a story, tilesets that you are happy with, and an idea of the music you'd like to use), so I'd personally also encourage you to rethink your stance on Lua, as it sounds very much right up your alley. Well actually, since you do have <i>some</i> previous coding experience, I'd actually encourage you to pursue building a game on your own in c/c++, but if you're hesitant about getting into the nitty gritty details of coding then you can be fairly confident that Lua will let you do most of what you want to do easily, and if you ever run into something that you can't implement in Lua, you can then look into porting your code to c/c++ for greater flexibility.

...Which is my assessment of your state of affairs. With that out of the way, I'd just like to say that making a modern-day RPG is just as easy as making one in a 100% fantasy world. It just requires you to have an open mind about what an RPG is. Ever since D&D's heyday, RPGs have been synonymous with medieval fantasy worlds, but you can take the formula for any medieval fantasy RPG and directly apply it successfully to a modern setting. One of the things you have to remember is that most of those medieval fantasy RPGs use lots of elements with no basis in reality to begin with: magic, mythical beasts, a pantheon of gods with an active hand in worldly affairs, etc... If you're worried about making a RPG based entirely in reality, it would be hard to make a modern day RPG, but it would actually be much harder to make a medieval RPG with the same aim. Melee weapons are no issue. Even if you want to stick purely to "realistic" weapons, it's helpful to keep in mind that lots of everyday items make great weapons. As much as everyone relates straight-blade katanas and throwing stars to ninjas, in reality most of their weapons were items that they could either carry without raising suspicion, or otherwise items that they could find in their immediate surroundings. Many asian "weapons" that we now consider to be weapons were originally no more than farming tools. In a modern setting, you could easily use umbrellas, belts, wallet chains, briefcases, etc, etc, etc... as ready weapons. A little bland, but once again, if you were to stick purely to the realm of reality, then every other RPG would be pretty bland as well.

Is that Secret of Mana page hosting the music files yours? That game rocked. The soundtrack was the second CD I ever bought (!_!)

[BlackJack23]

That must have been the longest post I've ever seen

But by God did it help me in my thinking. Since reading it I've taken your advice and come up with almost everything pre-script. Its all included in the text file below. There are some minor discrepancies between this text and previous pieces of writing submitted by me. I did this in one day so don't expect spectacular writing.

Attachment 7296

You are obviously a very talented individual b8a and would like nothing more than for you to work with me on what I think could be a truly great RPG.

By the looks of things you are about to walk away from this thread never to come back.

I urge you to reconsider and take the attachment above as proof that I really am serious about this.
However, if you still feel I will not be up to the challenge I will hold no grudge. Also, if you feel that recruiting a coder such as yauster would be a better idea I would be grateful for the assistance

The truth is I have touched on various languages but by touch I mean if statements. I'm not ready to dive headfirst into the whole C scene and Lua just seems like a waste of time if I'm going to move on to more advanced languages later.

I have also thought of some powerful titles:
Attachment 7299

Btw: You are also just about the only one on this forum who can spell his name correctly. This is absolutely necessary if you are going to be entering alot of dialogue and text into the game.

[b8a]

Ha Ha! Sorry, yeah, I tend to write long posts. Sometimes I'm just rambling, but more often than not I actually feel that the posts need to be that long in order to 1) make all the points I'm trying to make, and 2) make sure all of the connections between each point is understandable. Whenever possible I try to keep post lengths minimal.

With this situation, I just wanted to make sure you knew why we were loosing interest. It's not because we're trying to be harsh or critical, but because of legitimate concerns about the situation. A lot of people seem to think that having a coder is a "magic bullet" that's the ultimate key to making a great game. In reality, there's a whole lot of non-coding work to be done, and most of it is often best left to others whenever possible.

But, we already covered all of that (!_!)

I found myself thinking about this story, but then I got really ticked off because it felt like so many situations in the past where I got involved with a project only to get stuck with developing the story because no one else would commit to a storyline or anything else, and then just ultimately ended up loosing interest, leaving me to either abandon the project, or to take on a monstrous ammount of tasks all on my own. That's why I'm pretty adamant about clear division of tasks. I don't mind chipping in wherever I can, but that can get out of hand real quick.

I'm glad to see that you weren't frustrated into quitting. I was a little worried that you might. The way I see it, there needs to be more devoted writers around, so I don't want to see a perspective one get discouraged.

Like I said, I'm busy with work for at least the next month, so I can't give you any sort of firm commitment. Keep working on the story, and when I get some free time, I'll let you know where I stand at that point. I'm still pretty uninspired by the details as of right now, but at least I can start to see something emerging here. I've only glanced at the new details you've posted, but it did strike me as odd that the main characters are in their 20's and living so close to their parents... I don't know if there's good reason for this, but it does seem to kill a little of the, err, "adventuresome" aspect. ...But then again, maybe I'm just used to playing Japanese role-playing games with orphaned teens and pre teens (?_?)

Anyway, that's just my thoughts. I encourage you to keep posting updates. If you're worried about giving too much away, you can PM me, but if you keep it public until you get commitment from a coder, I think you'll stand a better chance of finding someone.

I can spell my name correctly??? Is that supposed to be sarcasm??? I've gotten nothing but flak over this spelling!!! (!_!) But seriously, you should plan on being the one who's going to be doing the bulk of the text entry. When you get to the point where this is ready for a coder, I'm sure they'll let you know how to format it to be compatible with their engine, but it's not something they should be left to do under normal circumstances. I've been working with XML a lot lately, and while I wasn't excited about it at first, the more I work with it, the more I love the way it allows you to nicely seperate content (such as dialog in an rpg), from the essential code. And an added bonus is that it's so easy to use and straightforward, you don't need to worry about whether the person providing the content will be able to work with it. ...Not saying that the dialogue will ultimately need to be formatted in XML, just making the point that there are great approaches where the coder doesn't have to worry about editing textual content.

[BlackJack23]

Well it was an exaggeration meaning you are the only one who can spell on this forum
But nevermind that.

I want to know what you think of my "Corona".
Does it have potential?
Starting with your parents is a non-issue and I like the idea and yes you have been playing too many Japanese RPGs. I like the idea because you arent exactly starting with your real parents but actually foster parents. This opens up many possibilities as far as your past is concerned and just adds to the mystery. And anyway, humans in Etheral Planar live to 140, making the characters still relatvely young.

But anyway, I have just begun C/C++ coding
Maybe by the time you are ready I will have surpassed you. Just kidding. But chances are I will be able to do something on the coding side.

Btw: How would be implement xml formatted text

[yaustar]

XML formatted text: Shouldn't be very hard [ http://www.grinninglizard.com/tinyxml/ ]

My main problem looking at your story is that I still don't see a game design and without that, production may as well not happen for a game of this scale.

[BlackJack23]

Yaustar can you please be specific?

Define game design

[yaustar]

Arg. I thought I already mentioned it here but that was in another "I have an idea for game" topic.

How will the combat work?
What speific weapons/spells will be used?
Concept screens?
How many levels will it have?
How does the character level up?
2D or 3D?
First Person/Third Person?
Damage/Health/Items?
etc

eg From a quick search:
http://members.shaw.ca/bsimser/webdesign/
http://www.gamedev.net/reference/art...rticle1764.asp
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/19991019/ryan_01.htm

Basically you have a lot of material on the story and concept but nothing that defines 'the' game.

[BlackJack23]

I remember saying I have a good story for a game. I interpret 'story' as the script, dialogue, events and setting of the game.

I thought the game design as you define it would be something thought up by all parties involved in production. But thank you for correcting me.

So here is the game design:
Attachment 7360

PLEASE feel free to give any comments, suggestions, advice etc.

[yaustar]

Sorry, I should have been more clear. Normally in the industry, the Games Designer would come with the design and all material related to it such as the back story, dialogue, setting etc. Very rarely will the two be seperate tasks.

[quote]I thought the game design as you define it would be something thought up by all parties involved in production. But thank you for correcting me.[quote] This only really happens on VERY small teams (e.g. 3 man) and depends on the nature of the game.

Edit: The game design needs to be WAY more detailed. This is a big game and therefore the design should reflect this. Think along the lines of a D&D rule book nad you get an idea of the size and detail needed. A good start never the less.