Judgment day - Deunan Speaks Out

[wraggster]

News via http://dknute.livejournal.com/36401.html

SONY just sued Geohot and fail0verflow team guys, and I can't help but to comment on that

Basically there are two things to consider here, the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) and EULA (End User License Agreement). Violating DMCA one will get you jailed, though that pretty much applies to USA only. We EU folk are not bound by that - but we have other laws that govern ownership and copyright issues. For example, around here it's illegal to possess any software that you do not have a license for. And I emphasise "possess", so it doesn't matter if you used said software or profited from it. Yup, that means games downloaded for emulators are illegal by the way, and calling them dumps, ROMs, images or whatever doesn't change that. And don't kid yourself thinking that it doesn't apply in your country - even if the company that made the game went bust, the copyright is still maintained for some 50-70 years. Fortunately most game developers figure it's too much hassle and waste of money to slap everyone playing 10 year old software with legal cease & desist notice. But they have that right, and much more.

Now, EULA on the other hand is a legal binding agreement that you accept of your own volition. In other words, you say "I promise to behave and you can beat me up if I don't.". You agree not to reverse engineer any software you get from SONY, and that you will not modify it or otherwise intrefere with it's intended operation. You agree not to use any software or hardware that SONY did not intend to be used with their own software (so it doesn't matter that it was, or was not compiled with SONY SDK). You also acknowledge that SONY will seek to be compensated for any damages you might cause.
What do you mean you didn't agree to all that? Sure you did. When you clicked the "I accept" button under that wall of text you didn't read when you first run your PS3. And you should have, because next time you run a software it's EULA might say "You agree to pay us 1000 Euro within 10 business days from now" and once you click that button you will have to pay. If you don't, a court order will make sure that you comply.

You know, I used to think that Microsoft Windows license was evil but now I know better. There are other, much more restrictive EULAs out there and SONY's PS3 one isn't that bad either. It's a standard legal notice preventing you from causing them harm, one should actually be expecting to see that. What I didn't like was how they treat personal data (name, address, etc) - we have laws in EU to protect those but since PS3 is global product you waive some of the rights you have once you agree to it's EULA. Well, haven't been spammed yet so it's not that bad I suppose.

And since I mentioned Microsoft, their Visual C++ Express license is neat. All they ask is not to mess with the binaries and that the produced executables be targeted for Windows operating systems (would be difficult, though not impossible to change that). And you get a free compiler, and you can even sell the programs you make with it. I only wish they dropped that silly requirement to register for 2010 version...

Anyway - my guess is SONY will try to establish that all the guys they sued have accepted the EULA. It varies a bit depending on where you live but I'm pretty sure each version of it has a clause like this one: "SCE and its licensors reserve the right to bring legal action in the event of a violation of this Agreement." It doesn't say what exactly they will do to you but it gives them plenty of room to maneuver.
SONY will also most likely try to prove that any encryption keys they've used are copyrighted by them - now that would be a bit tricky but doable, especially in US courts

The guys might claim they never agreed to PS3's EULA but that might land them in position of possesing illegal sofware. If that isn't a problem then it'd be worth it. AFAIK fail0verflow only published their findings and explained tools/methods involved - and reverse engineering hardware is not a crime, neither is writing your own software. Geohot might be in more trouble, he leaked the key rather then explain how to attack metldr.

A crypto key is just a bunch of numbers, you can't claim ownership of math. On the other hand though it's a pretty particular set of numbers, used in a specific way within a software, so it might be unique enough to copyright it. I guess we will see soon

[yakumo]

Well. That man tells that every one that has a PS3 has accepted the EULA. Well, if the EULA is a contract with clauses, here in Spain there is something called abusive clauses, where a company can be issued for. What if all the PS3 owners in the world did join so sue SONY for that? Does not looks like a fair thing, but we could, and we would win. We let SONY an other companies write down their crap, but just for lazyness. Remember facebook EULA? How soon their clauses of possession of data changed when some people just fired at them. We abuse because we have been previously abused, thats the game.

[superichego]

sony cant sue everybody because people buy second hand ps3's and you might not of accepted the EULA someone eles might have done it

[Darksaviour69]

EULA also also not 100% legaly binding e.g. you can't put in a EULA that if you break it they have the right to kill you (ok a bit of an extreme example), so it will be up to the court to decide if the EULA is reasonable

[Maxaxle]

sony cant sue everybody because people buy second hand ps3's and you might not of accepted the EULA someone eles might have done it

They would probably screw you over for it anyway, there's probably a clause that says "Anyone who uses this is automatically agreeing to our EULA" or something.

Also: I think that EULAs should NOT be able to ban the modification of software or hardware (but reverse-engineering I sort of understand, considering competition).

[Krisando]

I guess if I stole a ps3 I would not be bound to any EULA..