PSP vs PS1 iso backing up

**F9zDark** · December 11th, 2006, 18:33

Problem is m0th and Dejkirkby, if you will read this: http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=43998

Wraggster posted about the PS1P emulator for the PSP, in which that post clearly mentions ISO support for PS1 games. There was no disclaimer at the bottom regarding ISOs, and by UK law (where this site is based) any backup of digital media constitutes of a breaking of the law. So in other words that includes ALL emulators and roms.

This site is primarily an emulator site. Now, you tell me , if the law is so important to follow when it comes to using UMD dumps of games people own, why is it the law means nothing when it comes to emulation. As you said, ALL digital media, save music, is illegal to backup. Therefore anyone in the UK using emulators that cannot utilize the original game cart, cd or dvd is thus breaking the law.

So that also establishes that the ISO talk around here is not permitted because it has anything to do with the law (as I just proved, the very existence of this site is breaking UK law, as many emulators require illegaly made 'backups' of the games they can play). If ISO talk being denied here is to 'protect' us from pirates (as Cap'n 1Time said), then so be it. If its because of legal reasons then this site might as well shut down, because from what you tell me, its not operating within the constraints of UK law.

**dejkirkby** · December 11th, 2006, 18:43

I understand the back-up point, and to a degree I believe that people should be allowed a back-up for 'archive and protecting your purchase' purpose. With that said, I can also understand why the law is in place. If you can make your own back-up copy, the next logical step is then distributing that copy, although not necessarily for financial gain. Which ever way you look at it, this would have a detrimental effect on the gaming industry because a good percentage of people would be downloading back-ups rather than purchasing the game.
Now I can assure you that I use DevHook for running UMD's. I have a well-paid job and am fortunate to be able to afford the games I want. That's not to put down anyone else. Like I've stated many times, if people want to download games, good luck to them and as long as they keep it to themselves it's not my business. And I wholly agree That a large percentage of DevHook users probably use iso's or cso's. But the fact is the vast majority of these people do so without ever mentioning it on this site, thus maintaining the integrity of DCEmu.
With regards to the emulator/roms/iso situation. I, along with lots of other people can see the glaringly obvious points which can be construed as double-standards. But it is not my place to change this rule. perhaps a moderator could explain this better.
I hope this has put my views across clearer. I know I can be hot-headed and say things in temper (such as the insta-ban $#@!, sorry again virus.exe), but I'm fiercely protective of DCEmu and, although it's not my site, I class it as my PSP homepage.
I hope you stick around here at DCEmu, I've really enjoyed this chance to have a decent discussion about iso's without promoting them. Thank you.

**flying_dutchman** · December 11th, 2006, 19:19

Well as a last post on this I think time will tell if the rules will change here at DCemu.
(now that I've registered I might as well check in from time to time since I see it all over google all the time when looking for news)

Anyway I to can be hot-headed and this discussion certainly cleared up a lot unlike the previous one.
My opinion however does not change and I feel the rules should be adjusted, but you're right that's up to the mods.
You can't blame people for trying to change things though.
It's obvious that people like dagger and dark do enjoy coming to this site otherwise they simply would move on to the next.
Which to me sound like time for improvements to make the site grow even more.
Again the talk about ISO's does not have to come hand in hand with piracy as to me a real pirate NEVER buys a game.
And don't get me wrong I admit I download games, but I also buy them so I do try and support somewhat. (This goes for music and movies too btw.)

Anyway I enjoyed this discussion too, maybe we'll have some nice ones in the future.

On a final note I give a theory of mine. May sound like a fantasy and completely hypothetical but just think about it for a minute. (I know plenty will dissagree)
I think that in the future things might change in the world of the internet, where the price for your connection will go up in exchange for available downloads. That is if piracy keeps growing the way it does.
Either that or no one will make any money of anything anymore and no games or movies etc. will be produced (atleast no good ones).
I still believe a problem like that could be prevented by lowering prices all together. (I mean $600 for a playstation console, is Sony out of their minds?)
Making money is one thing but the current situation is just crazy.

**dagger89** · December 11th, 2006, 22:25

Originally Posted by flying_dutchman

Well as a last post on this I think time will tell if the rules will change here at DCemu.
(now that I've registered I might as well check in from time to time since I see it all over google all the time when looking for news)

Anyway I to can be hot-headed and this discussion certainly cleared up a lot unlike the previous one.
My opinion however does not change and I feel the rules should be adjusted, but you're right that's up to the mods.
You can't blame people for trying to change things though.
It's obvious that people like dagger and dark do enjoy coming to this site otherwise they simply would move on to the next.
Which to me sound like time for improvements to make the site grow even more.
Again the talk about ISO's does not have to come hand in hand with piracy as to me a real pirate NEVER buys a game.
And don't get me wrong I admit I download games, but I also buy them so I do try and support somewhat. (This goes for music and movies too btw.)

Anyway I enjoyed this discussion too, maybe we'll have some nice ones in the future.

On a final note I give a theory of mine. May sound like a fantasy and completely hypothetical but just think about it for a minute. (I know plenty will dissagree)
I think that in the future things might change in the world of the internet, where the price for your connection will go up in exchange for available downloads. That is if piracy keeps growing the way it does.
Either that or no one will make any money of anything anymore and no games or movies etc. will be produced (atleast no good ones).
I still believe a problem like that could be prevented by lowering prices all together. (I mean $600 for a playstation console, is Sony out of their minds?)
Making money is one thing but the current situation is just crazy.

To be honest I think money has nothing to do with it, and all to do with it for most people... For example, say people download the newest, crappiest puzzle game. Why would they do it? Not because they don't feel like paying for a game, but rather, they know that they wouldn't even buy it in the first place, and the game company wouldn't "lose a sale"...

Of course, I'm not advocating this kind of talk on DCemu, but there should be a set standard (ie: System X ROM talk is not allowed at all because encryption has to be broken, but System Y is ok because the ISOs are unprotected)....

IMO, there should either be a set standard, or NO ISO/BACKUP (Of any kind) TALK AT ALL... It just seems odd that its acceptable to dump PS2 isos when not necessary, yet not being able to talk about dumping PSP isos when necessary (if a patch is needed to run it on a certain firmware)....

**flying_dutchman** · December 11th, 2006, 23:25

Had to get back to this thread lol, I like this discussion it's quite comfortable.

I agree fully when you say no talk at all if certain talk is disaproved.
Which is why I think those rules should be changed.
What I read is that using copyrighted material in this manner is only allowed when something is "abandonware", something the PS1 or PS2 is not.

What you said about downloading is exactly the reason why I download. I don't want to pay $50 for a game I only play for a week or even less.
I hate to fall into repetition but the emulators are used by many for ISO's (downloaded or backed up themselves).
And so DCemu has a lot of users because of it.
Someone browses around, sees something they like and want to know how to use it. So they register and another user is aquired, mainly because of programs like devhook.
I know DCemu doesn't make money through their users but they wish to grow don't they?
Why not get involved in anything related to the emulators used in the forums.
It's either that or, like you say dagger, stop all together.

But maybe it's all easy to say for me since I originally come from the Netherlands and the laws are quite different there. Since earlier this year I have been in the US and although laws are stronger they still seem milder then the UK.
So it could all be a mentality thing.
Or DCemu had bad experiences with the law.
I don't know, I guess it would be nice if a Mod could clarify as to why these topics are not allowed here.

**dagger89** · December 12th, 2006, 06:18

TBH, I can't see it being the "law" that prevents it....have the 10 million psp iso sites been shut down recently, no... Only sites that host illegal files.... Not to mention law varys country by country.... (And if "law" is involved, then I see some other illegal stuff going on, that should be taken care of)

Hmmm... no straight answer yet.... damn... I was really hoping for an answer, but everything so far is just guesses or wrong answers....

**m0th** · December 13th, 2006, 05:38

dejkirkby, you honestly will live by ALL laws no matter what they are? What if they passed a law that conflicted with your lifestyle, morals, religion? Where do you draw the line?

And I think when you are referring to everyone defending the downloader.... hmm maybe because they do the downloading. Sorry for ya that there's not many people like you, you can relate with.

**belialone** · December 13th, 2006, 10:55

i think its not good to force people to allow iso talk
cuz its something you have to be careful with
dcemu made their point and thats it
ok i see the point emus are good isos are bad
but look at it like that, emus are a great way to play games for a certain system
isos are great to backup and savely store your original
but emus wont break any law until they use a copyrighted bios or something
isos instead are in most countries restricted or forbidden
its good to talk about emus because they are just selfwritten software
but its bad to talk about isos because they contain protected code

**mikebeaver** · December 13th, 2006, 11:08

Basically sony watch the net quite closely, if they see a great deal of iso talk on DCemu they will try and shut it down, now none of us would want that now would we?
So leave the iso talk to another forum, it's not like this is the only place you can get info from.
We all feel comfortable on this forum, so if it aint broke....dont try to fix it.