CODERS, think about this...

[Mark30001]

I understand where 1stvinicius is coming from. Great ideas can arise from coding projects, however, not everyone in the scene is seeking riches. I personally think emulators and certain console homebrew should not be charged in any way. Free homebrew should always exist! Charging should be limited to PC homebrew & development, and in some cases the Dreamcast (via The GOAT Store ).

If people really want to make money creating homebrew for consoles, they might as well obtain a video gaming license to officially distribute their game and content, although it could prove quite costly.

[Cap'n 1time]

I never said that people should never contribute to the scene. I said that this contribution should be limited. I will leave you in peace as soon as you give me a good argue or when the moderator/administrator
decides to ban me. BTW, does your "ban hammer" have the power for it? Because if it does have what it takes to ban me, I hope you don't begin to act like a
Hitler... (and the admi too) hehe

Nah, thats not how I roll. and I dont really want you to leave. I do, however, want you to understand that this community, much like the linux community does not rely on money. I dont think you would dare suggest the linux is dead, even without the huge production costs that MS shells out.... In fact most the Distributions that try to go heavily proprietary seem to fail (See Redhat, Mandrake, Suse under Novell, etc).

[1stvinicius]

I dont use my parents for money... Also I have a life, a normal one and in the other hand I code, I can have "other" job rather than coding. Its really simple, you must be a hombrew coder in order to understand. But maybe you never will cuz it seems that everything in the world for you is money and power, the world can be kind, can be free, can be yours, can have friendship, can educate yourself.

Sure you can get another job, but if you want to code hard stuff and then distribute them for free then you are just making what i have been saying all over this thread. Undervalueing the profession.

So just because i do care about money I am now a guy who wants power???

The true meaning of the hombrew coding is in the coder himself, nobody can explain it (I cant explain it too ).

So if you cant explain it then you lost the cause.

IF YOU CARE ABOUT MONEY, THEN WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?

Hey, calm down, big dude.. No one is yelling here.

Im here to convince some of you because this is the most expressive community about homebrew programming in my opinion.

Sorry but Ill be harsh this time with you.

If you dont know the "homebrew emulators" they are free software made by coders, they are not illegal, they are like a normal homebrew game. You CAN have them without all the software needed.

Your 24hrs stuff its really stupid and lame cuz if you donwload COPYRIGHTED stuff you are doing an illegal action.

The emulator and the guy who made it are clean. The guy who is a pirate is the bad guy of this movie.

Also you can have just the half of an emulator and it still being legal! as far you dont download copyrighted materials.

Well, for these words I must say what i said to cap'n 1time:

"What is an emulator with no roms?? And who cares about homebrew roms? ALL we know why people download them for.. They do it to play commercial roms. End of history."

Now if you wanna put things like "the good guy" and the "bad guy" then this is what i have to tell you:

If there is a rom dumped somewhere, thats because an emulator is available BEOFRE. So both guys have their guilty side in this "movie".

If you have the power, knowledge (anything else you want) to create a weapon and you know how to create it , then I ask: Is it illegal?.

This comparison doesn't fit in anyway to the whole subject..

You're asking me if the capacity of a person to build a gun (emulator) is a crime, right? Then i would say "No. It's not a crime to ONLY have the capacity to construct a gun." (lets put gun manufacturing as a crime).

But that's not the question.. The question is about something already made, not about the capacity to make it. So emulators are not just in the capacity realm, its not a fantasy.
I hope you understand what i am trying to say...

Is illegal know how to use the math for bad pourposes?.

Again, almost the same kind of distorted comparison...

The weapon doesnt kill, the one who kills is the person who uses it for evil.

If there is someone dead by a gun, then a gun was there BEFORE his dead. In other words: you must take the responsibility for the things you create.

By the way, are you a lawyer?

[1stvinicius]

And one more thing:

I knew that 24 hours period is a lie. I was just testing you guys, ok?

Now what really matters is that none of them are legal stuff (roms and emulators). No matter what you say, they will still be illegal.

I know you got angry with me but i know too that you gonna think about what im saying. Take care.

[souLLy]

*sigh* the old, 'ROMs are illegal therefore all emulation must be illegal'. This has been covered so many times on so many sites that I won't even go into it, but without going into a long-winded rant, emulation is perfectly legal.

Also on the money issue, I'll put it like this:

Developers of free software generally do it for fun, if they take money from people:
- They're obliged to offer tech support
- They're also obliged to keep updating it forever
- Their work is then judged against other professional quality, commercial software (since you pay the same hard earned cash for them both) which inevitably leads to the work being heavily criticised 'how come dis dosent look as gud as GTA???!@'

Of course coders/artists/musicians etc realise that they're giving away the fruits of their efforts for free, but not everyone is absorbed by the all consuming desire for wealth... heck you'd be surprised how much fun is taken out of a hobby when you begin taking money for your hobby and it becomes your job.

Sure if a coder needs a new piece of software/hardware to complete a project and people want to donate to help out, or when people set up a bounty for whoever is the first person to get wifi on the ds working for example, I think those are great things- but otherwise on the whole, I'd say it's better to leave money out of homebrew, it's one of the nice areas of life that isn't tainted by greed and isn't discriminating against those with lower incomes. If you can afford a blank CDR then you can get into Dreamcast homebrew... who really would want that to change?

[Tetris999]

*sigh* the old, 'ROMs are illegal therefore all emulation must be illegal'. This has been covered so many times on so many sites that I won't even go into it, but without going into a long-winded rant, emulation is perfectly legal.

Also on the money issue, I'll put it like this:

Developers of free software generally do it for fun, if they take money from people:
- They're obliged to offer tech support
- They're also obliged to keep updating it forever
- Their work is then judged against other professional quality, commercial software (since you pay the same hard earned cash for them both) which inevitably leads to the work being heavily criticised 'how come dis dosent look as gud as GTA???!@'

Of course coders/artists/musicians etc realise that they're giving away the fruits of their efforts for free, but not everyone is absorbed by the all consuming desire for wealth... heck you'd be surprised how much fun is taken out of a hobby when you begin taking money for your hobby and it becomes your job.

Sure if a coder needs a new piece of software/hardware to complete a project and people want to donate to help out, or when people set up a bounty for whoever is the first person to get wifi on the ds working for example, I think those are great things- but otherwise on the whole, I'd say it's better to leave money out of homebrew, it's one of the nice areas of life that isn't tainted by greed and isn't discriminating against those with lower incomes. If you can afford a blank CDR then you can get into Dreamcast homebrew... who really would want that to change?

:thumbup: to soully i agree with him

[mexicansnake]

Sure you can get another job, but if you want to code hard stuff and then distribute them for free then you are just making what i have been saying all over this thread. Undervalueing the profession.

So just because i do care about money I am now a guy who wants power???



So if you cant explain it then you lost the cause.



Hey, calm down, big dude.. No one is yelling here.

Im here to convince some of you because this is the most expressive community about homebrew programming in my opinion.



Well, for these words I must say what i said to cap'n 1time:

"What is an emulator with no roms?? And who cares about homebrew roms? ALL we know why people download them for.. They do it to play commercial roms. End of history."

Now if you wanna put things like "the good guy" and the "bad guy" then this is what i have to tell you:

If there is a rom dumped somewhere, thats because an emulator is available BEOFRE. So both guys have their guilty side in this "movie".



This comparison doesn't fit in anyway to the whole subject..

You're asking me if the capacity of a person to build a gun (emulator) is a crime, right? Then i would say "No. It's not a crime to ONLY have the capacity to construct a gun." (lets put gun manufacturing as a crime).

But that's not the question.. The question is about something already made, not about the capacity to make it. So emulators are not just in the capacity realm, its not a fantasy.
I hope you understand what i am trying to say...



Again, almost the same kind of distorted comparison...



If there is someone dead by a gun, then a gun was there BEFORE his dead. In other words: you must take the responsibility for the things you create.

By the way, are you a lawyer?

Well, I studied laws from my law teacher (he is a doctor btw) like 2 years... So maybe its a yes.

About the roms, all you have to do is dump your own game "dot". I dont want to enter on big terms cuz here is not allowed to talk about piracy and how to do it.

Also the answer is inside of each coder, he cant explain it to you cuz you had never coded something
and you cant understand our causes and what we think. We cant explain it to you cuz is really hard to explain but go msn and Ill try to explain it to you .

Emulators can be a capacity (as I have) to build them, it doesnt matter if we dont want to release them .

You are the one who needs to chill. Im just being critic like you.

You must answer faster the next time.

If you want to stress words in capitals make sure you write them well: BEOFRE? (I dont want to flame I think that Im being constructive).

Read again the comparison, read and read and read again if you cant get it .

Also you can have the source code of an emulator, its done but it doesnt work (semidone), give us your explanation about this, I want to see want do you think .

I think that you are doing a good job but your arguments must be more solid in order to make us think, can you get it?

OK Im done .

[1stvinicius]

Well, I studied laws from my law teacher (he is a doctor btw) like 2 years... So maybe its a yes.

So maybe its a "yes", huh? Just to let you you know, in my country people must stay 4~5 years in the university to be considered a lawyer and after this time they must be classified on the "Order of lawyers of Brazil" (Ordem dos Advogados do Brasil - OAB) exam. If they can't pass in this exam then they will never be lawyers.

Understood, big "Lawyer"? FOUR to FIVE years..

Also the answer is inside of each coder, he cant explain it to you cuz you had never coded something
and you cant understand our causes and what we think. We cant explain it to you cuz is really hard to explain but go msn and Ill try to explain it to you .

Just because I said that i am studying hard to be a coder it doesnt mean I never coded before.. I know that coding stuff are learned by practice. And even if i really never did it, like you are saying, you should not say that "the answer is inside each coder" like if coding was something sacred or from another world that no one could ever explain. I'm sure some other coder could find some answers to that simple question but you are just showing that you can't...

You talk bull$hit all the time.. You say that its not possible to explain and then you call me to MSN so you can try to explain.. Give me a break.. You just want to flame me as much as you can there because here you know you cant.. (or you are looking forward to invade my PC?)

Emulators can be a capacity (as I have) to build them, it doesnt matter if we dont want to release them .

If you have studied laws for 2 "long" years, now its time to restart your english course too.

You must answer faster the next time.

I have lots of other things to do so I don't have time to keep checking replies all the time like you do. Tell me the truth: you're one of those freaking posters out there, aren't you? One of those who post now and keep refreshing the page every 5 minutes... Hahuahuhueuha

If you want to stress words in capitals make sure you write them well: BEOFRE? (I dont want to flame I think that Im being constructive).

Maybe you could give me some lessons about how to stress words in capital and in big red letters.. heheheh

Read again the comparison, read and read and read again if you cant get it .

I wont waste my time anymore with your mad comparison..

Also you can have the source code of an emulator, its done but it doesnt work (semidone), give us your explanation about this, I want to see want do you think .

".....I want to see WANT do you think.." Maybe Im not the only one mispelling words here. So you wanna know what I think about source codes? Well, if some other person come and ask me maybe i would answer but i just got tired of you...

I think that you are doing a good job but your arguments must be more solid in order to make us think, can you get it?

If my arguments were so weak like youre saying then they wouldnt receive so many answers till this page....

These were my last words to you, big lawyer.
Ok?

[1stvinicius]

*sigh* the old, 'ROMs are illegal therefore all emulation must be illegal'. This has been covered so many times on so many sites that I won't even go into it, but without going into a long-winded rant, emulation is perfectly legal.

Also on the money issue, I'll put it like this:

Developers of free software generally do it for fun, if they take money from people:
- They're obliged to offer tech support
- They're also obliged to keep updating it forever
- Their work is then judged against other professional quality, commercial software (since you pay the same hard earned cash for them both) which inevitably leads to the work being heavily criticised 'how come dis dosent look as gud as GTA???!@'

Of course coders/artists/musicians etc realise that they're giving away the fruits of their efforts for free, but not everyone is absorbed by the all consuming desire for wealth... heck you'd be surprised how much fun is taken out of a hobby when you begin taking money for your hobby and it becomes your job.

Sure if a coder needs a new piece of software/hardware to complete a project and people want to donate to help out, or when people set up a bounty for whoever is the first person to get wifi on the ds working for example, I think those are great things- but otherwise on the whole, I'd say it's better to leave money out of homebrew, it's one of the nice areas of life that isn't tainted by greed and isn't discriminating against those with lower incomes. If you can afford a blank CDR then you can get into Dreamcast homebrew... who really would want that to change?

Finally some good points of view, but:

Why would they need to offer a full support service at the start? If its a homebrew, then it should be cheaper and if it is cheaper, then this support could be limited only to a readme file and to these forums at the beggining of the commerce. After some time, they could improve he quality of the product, the support and the price.. Everything has a starting point.

About a hobby becoming a job:
Well, if it is really bad to transform your job into your work then I bet it is still badder to work with something you don't like. Even if it becomes your obligation, it is still something you know how to do well.. Agree?

About helping people with lower incomes:
Like I said before, a cheap price for homebrews should be applied. If its cheap then almost everyone could buy it.

[quzar]

My experience:
I was almost going to get a minigame onto the goat things, but thought it was too much pressure to deliver a completely bug free product with amazing level design and such, two things I was not confident in my ability to do.

I do stuff for the Dreamcast because I find it fun, I enjoy facilitating others having fun, I like the challenge, and I plan to one day do professional programming for embedded systems so everything I do goes into a portfolio showing I have the ability to port things, optimize, write semi-competently in C, etc.