The Proof for Christ's Claims

[Froogle]

um pretty sure its what i said a bit ago lol.

# The Qur'an says "To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward" (Surah 5:9).

Are you doing enough good deeds to receive salvation on the Day of Judgment?
Are you doing all you can or are you relaxing in your dedication to Allah?

# The Qur'an says, "O ye who believe! Turn unto Allah in sincere repentance! It may be that your Lord will remit from you your evil deeds and bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, on the day when Allah will not abase the Prophet and those who believe with him. Their light will run before them and on their right hands; they will say: Our Lord! Perfect our light for us, and forgive us! Lo! Thou art Able to do all things," (66:8-9). Notice how it says if you are sincere you may receive forgiveness.

How do you know you are sincere enough to be forgiven of Allah?
Does it give you peace to know that even if you are very sincere that at best, you may receive forgiveness?
If you say that you know you are sincere enough in your repentance before Allah, how do you know you are not deceiving yourself?
Is your heart really good enough to muster enough sincerity before a Holy and Righteous God?
If you say yes, I honestly and humbly ask you, "Are you being prideful?"
If you say you are not being prideful, then are you boasting in your sincerity?

hmm and you say that you feel secure??

How do you know you are sincere enough to be forgiven of Allah?

That is the great thing about it a righteous person does not know which good deed will be accepted so he/she will continue to do good for humanity until his death....what is wrong with that. The way to attain paradise is not by YOUR deeds it by the mercy of God that will get you to paradise your deeds will get you closer to God's mercy. How much good deeds...well it is based on your intention (how sincere you are) and if you perform it the correct way (way of the Prophet). You don't want drug dealers, fire worshippers, idol worshippers be in same place as those Prophets, and those who are conscious about their Creator and who asks for guidance.

Does it give you peace to know that even if you are very sincere that at best, you may receive forgiveness?
It gives me peace that I try to be continously concious of my Creator who is THE source of All peace...I am at peace with myself because the religion is the truth. I am at peace that I have submitted myself to my Creator and not money, fame, family, or any created thing.

If you say that you know you are sincere enough in your repentance before Allah, how do you know you are not deceiving yourself?

That is the purpose of REVELATION and Prophets that tell us what God wants. We believe in ALL the revelations reveiled to us including the Torah, injeel, Zabur (Abraham), and final one the Quran. The Quran is the only book revealed to man that is not changed, corrupted, or tempered with. I can prove that easily if you want. The Sunnah (way) of the LAST prophet has not been corrupted. I can prove that as well.

Is your heart really good enough to muster enough sincerity before a Holy and Righteous God?
One of the reasons to live this life is to cleanse our Hearts. "Those who Purify themselves are successful." The corrupt hearts have envy, jealousy, greed..etc... Islam teaches to clean your heart from that so that the human can be at peace b/w himself and the Creator. It is a process and struggle that we Muslims must take.

If you say yes, I honestly and humbly ask you, "Are you being prideful?"
Being "prideful" is an attribute of shaytan and the MAIN reason why he did not submit to Allah's commands by saying that he will not boy down (sign of respect) to Adam because he thought he was better than the new creation of God...Adam.
Faaar from being prideful...God willing.

If you say you are not being prideful, then are you boasting in your sincerity?

I am only boasting about my religion because honestly it is perfect and has no flaws. It is the people who practice it who makes it look bad...Study and you will learn and understand...No need for you to "convert" just expand your knowledge...peace

www.islam-guide.com
www.shareislam.com

[Froogle]

um its the fastest growing religion because its the native religion in the most populated countries in the world.

Yes and Muslims are being killed by the Millions (Afghanistan, Bosnia, Iraq) and it is still the fastest growing religion ...hmmmmm...Let me tell you why..
People are tired of worshipping money, fame, family...They are depressed. They are on all types of medication, harmful drugs, and alcoholism to feel some sort of peace....The only way to attain peace is to understand, know, and worship your Creator because He is the source of ALL peace. So millions are turning to Islam because it gives a simple and clear explanation of God without ANY contradictions or confusion. Everyone can understand. It uses Proof and faith to help people understand their Creator and their PURPOSE in life...Hope that helps you and opens your eyes as well.

[Froogle]

i will answer your questions, but i'm still waiting on your answers.

why did he have to die?

God is infinite.
There is no limit to Him. He is endless.
God is holy.
Holiness is purity. God is incapable of doing anything wrong. Part of the quality of holiness is the inability to do wrong.
God is just.
He always does what is right.
God cannot violate His own righteous declarations, because that would mean God is contradicting Himself.
This justice is according to His nature since it is He is who tells us what is right and wrong.
Therefore, God is infinitely holy and infinitely just
Neither His holiness nor justice can be denied since they are part of His character and God cannot be denied.
We are not infinite and not holy
We are not infinite because we are creations.
We are not holy because we have sinned.
Sin is doing anything against God's Law.
It is God who declares what is right and wrong. He has revealed this to us in the scriptures.
The Law is a reflection of God's character.
God speaks out of what is in His mind and heart. If He says do not lie, it is because it is against God's nature to lie.
God is not speaking without reason or purpose. If He had no reason or purpose, this would mean that God is not trustworthy.
God is trustworthy, therefore God's Law is the standard of perfection, justice, and holiness.
God's Law carries a penalty upon the sinner which is damnation.
Damnation is the act of God where He passes righteous judgment upon a person because of the person's sin against Him.
If breaking God's law did not carry a penalty, then there would be no damnation. But since there is damnation, we can conclude that breaking God's law carries a penalty.
If He did not damn based upon righteousness, then God is doing wrong. Since God cannot do anything wrong, then damnation is righteous.
God is affected by what we do.
Proof of this is found in our prayers. Since God answers our prayers, our prayers have an affect upon God because God is moved to answer.
If our prayers have no affect upon God, then prayer is useless since it accomplishes nothing.
Breaking God's Law, sinning, has a negative effect upon our relationship with God.
God is not injured in a physical way by our sins since God is spirit, perfect, and complete.
But, since damnation exists (because of the justice of God), we can conclude that sin has a negative affect upon the relationship between the sinner and God. If this were not so, there would be no damnation.
Since God is infinite, our offense against Him has an infinite effect.
It is the infinite God we have offended, therefore, the sin results in an infinite offense against God.
A finite person cannot remove an infinite offense against an infinite God.
A finite work cannot remove an infinite offense because the effort of a finite person will always fall short of meeting the justice of an infinite God.
God cannot arbitrarily forgive the sinner without satisfying His infinite justice.
If damnation is righteously given because of justice, so too, forgiveness must be in accordance with justice because both are dealing with sin.
To simply dismiss sin in order to forgive is to deny justice.
If forgiveness is not consistent with God's justice, then God is arbitrary, inconsistent, and unjust.
Therefore, the act of forgiveness also requires an act of justice.
Since it is just that the sinner die and be damned, this justice cannot be ignored.
If it were ignored, then God is not being consistent in His justice.
If it were ignored, then God has no right to damn anyone.
No one is damned who is alive. Only the dead are damned.
Since man cannot earn forgiveness from God through his finite works, it must be God who makes forgiveness possible.
This is so, because there is no one left to make things right, other than God.
Since it is not just to ignore the penalty for sin, and since man cannot satisfy God, there is none left but God to pay for the just penalty of sin.
The sin cannot be ignored because the act of forgiveness also requires and act of justice.
This justice cannot be ignored because God would then be inconsistent.
It is just that the sinner die and suffer judgment.
Death is a punishment of God and damnation follows death.
Since it is just that sin must be dealt with, God must meet that requirement of justice.
This is so, because a finite person cannot please and infinite God's just requirements of holiness and purity.
God must then do what is just in forgiveness of sins or justice cannot be met.
God must then take the place of the sinner and suffer the consequence of the lawful judgment of death upon the sinner.
With justice met, forgiveness can then be rightly given.
This forgiveness, which cannot be earned by man's effort, can only be received from God by man's faith - because there is nothing else he can do.

that is why he died but you also ask how can god or part of god die? most people don't understand the idea of death. his body died but not the soul, he made his body alive again, which is the resurrection.

why did he pray and submit?

HE WAS OUR EXAMPLE!!! he didn't rebuke the man for calling him good. he realized the man didn't know he was God and therefore made him realize that no man can be good.

the easiest way to explain the trinity is water.
h2o is the chemical makeup, but it can be ice(solid), water(liquid), and vapor(gas). it is the same in nature and makeup but different in its presence. and if you look up the triple point of water they can exist at the time in each form.l

now you prove me wrong

Heard all the examples...Water, Egg. Does not make sense at all. It is a pagan idea. Use the Bible to explain to be. The word trinity is not even in the Bible. When asked what is the greatest commandment Jesus is to worship God with all your heart and all your might. That makes perfect sense in Islam. He NEVER said I am God worship me in the Bible...Bible testifies that there is One God.

Jesus is not your example to follow because Jesus peace be upon him was not a prophet for All of humanity only for the Jews and gentiles. The Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was the last prophet brought to All of humanity who you have to follow as an example...Look and read at credible sources to understand the Last Prophet.
May Guide God you...Ask your Creator for guidance.

[ICE]

ok cap'n double post. i dont know about you but not knowing my eternal fate doesnt exactly scream secure. you have done nothing but spit out opinions. give me facts that are debatable. dont tell me god is abig pink puffy elephant!! thats not debatable because its opinion. GIVE ME FACTS.

i am glad that you are defending yourself and i enjoy debates but give me something to work with alright? lol

[Cap'n 1time]

Jesus, Muhammad. Both good guys and both prophets of the same god... If you believe that sort of thing. I highly respect the teachings of both... as they basically teach the same thing. that thing is Love in general. Sadly it seems to me that both religions have been perverted by men over time.

Froogle seems to have a pretty good grasp of Islam and I recommend you listen. It isn't fair to ridicule or judge a religion you have relatively no knowledge of. Who better to learn from than someone who practices?

[gdf]

right you are dissing each others' religions and making it sound bad as all your arguments could be against yourself. ice man especially with the whole "native religion" bit. this could be applicable to christianity; it is the biggest religion because it is native to the most people. so what about buddism? or sikhism? are they wrong or does each religion that worships a different god/gods have their own versions of heaven or do you think they are wrong despite that being their native religion? if you were raised as a sikh would you think christianity was wrong? can only certain people go to heaven because they happen to be born in the west or certain parts of asia, africa etc etc...?

btw i think muslims take their religion far more seriously and though i think they are wrong i respect them for pretty much dedicating their whole lives to it. also isn't spitting opinions just what you have done all over three off topic threads. your religions are the same thing, just with different takes on the timeline and who was the most important prophet etc. i agree with 1time that the overall message of the prophets et al was oddly changed by humans.

[MasterMind]

i will answer your questions, but i'm still waiting on your answers.

why did he have to die?

God is infinite.
There is no limit to Him. He is endless.
God is holy.
Holiness is purity. God is incapable of doing anything wrong. Part of the quality of holiness is the inability to do wrong.
God is just.
He always does what is right.
God cannot violate His own righteous declarations, because that would mean God is contradicting Himself.
This justice is according to His nature since it is He is who tells us what is right and wrong.
Therefore, God is infinitely holy and infinitely just
Neither His holiness nor justice can be denied since they are part of His character and God cannot be denied.
We are not infinite and not holy
We are not infinite because we are creations.
We are not holy because we have sinned.
Sin is doing anything against God's Law.
It is God who declares what is right and wrong. He has revealed this to us in the scriptures.
The Law is a reflection of God's character.
God speaks out of what is in His mind and heart. If He says do not lie, it is because it is against God's nature to lie.
God is not speaking without reason or purpose. If He had no reason or purpose, this would mean that God is not trustworthy.
God is trustworthy, therefore God's Law is the standard of perfection, justice, and holiness.
God's Law carries a penalty upon the sinner which is damnation.
Damnation is the act of God where He passes righteous judgment upon a person because of the person's sin against Him.
If breaking God's law did not carry a penalty, then there would be no damnation. But since there is damnation, we can conclude that breaking God's law carries a penalty.
If He did not damn based upon righteousness, then God is doing wrong. Since God cannot do anything wrong, then damnation is righteous.
God is affected by what we do.
Proof of this is found in our prayers. Since God answers our prayers, our prayers have an affect upon God because God is moved to answer.
If our prayers have no affect upon God, then prayer is useless since it accomplishes nothing.
Breaking God's Law, sinning, has a negative effect upon our relationship with God.
God is not injured in a physical way by our sins since God is spirit, perfect, and complete.
But, since damnation exists (because of the justice of God), we can conclude that sin has a negative affect upon the relationship between the sinner and God. If this were not so, there would be no damnation.
Since God is infinite, our offense against Him has an infinite effect.
It is the infinite God we have offended, therefore, the sin results in an infinite offense against God.
A finite person cannot remove an infinite offense against an infinite God.
A finite work cannot remove an infinite offense because the effort of a finite person will always fall short of meeting the justice of an infinite God.
God cannot arbitrarily forgive the sinner without satisfying His infinite justice.
If damnation is righteously given because of justice, so too, forgiveness must be in accordance with justice because both are dealing with sin.
To simply dismiss sin in order to forgive is to deny justice.
If forgiveness is not consistent with God's justice, then God is arbitrary, inconsistent, and unjust.
Therefore, the act of forgiveness also requires an act of justice.
Since it is just that the sinner die and be damned, this justice cannot be ignored.
If it were ignored, then God is not being consistent in His justice.
If it were ignored, then God has no right to damn anyone.
No one is damned who is alive. Only the dead are damned.
Since man cannot earn forgiveness from God through his finite works, it must be God who makes forgiveness possible.
This is so, because there is no one left to make things right, other than God.
Since it is not just to ignore the penalty for sin, and since man cannot satisfy God, there is none left but God to pay for the just penalty of sin.
The sin cannot be ignored because the act of forgiveness also requires and act of justice.
This justice cannot be ignored because God would then be inconsistent.
It is just that the sinner die and suffer judgment.
Death is a punishment of God and damnation follows death.
Since it is just that sin must be dealt with, God must meet that requirement of justice.
This is so, because a finite person cannot please and infinite God's just requirements of holiness and purity.
God must then do what is just in forgiveness of sins or justice cannot be met.
God must then take the place of the sinner and suffer the consequence of the lawful judgment of death upon the sinner.
With justice met, forgiveness can then be rightly given.
This forgiveness, which cannot be earned by man's effort, can only be received from God by man's faith - because there is nothing else he can do.

that is why he died but you also ask how can god or part of god die? most people don't understand the idea of death. his body died but not the soul, he made his body alive again, which is the resurrection.

why did he pray and submit?

HE WAS OUR EXAMPLE!!! he didn't rebuke the man for calling him good. he realized the man didn't know he was God and therefore made him realize that no man can be good.

the easiest way to explain the trinity is water.
h2o is the chemical makeup, but it can be ice(solid), water(liquid), and vapor(gas). it is the same in nature and makeup but different in its presence. and if you look up the triple point of water they can exist at the time in each form.l

now you prove me wrong

First question was not answered. You are attributing something very negative and false to God the Sustainer and Creator of everything that exists. When you say God died then you are saying God is not perfect because dying is something very low of God to perform. God CANNOT do anything. He only does things that is Just and in the his set boundaries. Can God lie? No. Can God use the restroom? (something Jesus performed). No. God does not do humanly things that is what is Quran saying when it says "And nothing is comparable to Him." The way to know God is not to picture Him it is to understand and know the attributes of the Creator and be in awe for those things. For example God is Most merciful so we should have that particular attribute of mercy to his creation. So God is free from Any imperfections including dying and being resurrect in this low discusting earth, then be crusified in front of his creation to "save them from sin." Come on seriously that is really defaming and saying extremely negative things about your Creator. Ask God sincerely to guide you.

Did not answer ..Why he rebuked someone for called him good and then Jesus (ph) said No one is Good except God. He should have said Yes I am good. Or thank the person...WHy

[Accordion]

Jesus, Muhammad. Both good guys and both prophets of the same god... If you believe that sort of thing. I highly respect the teachings of both... as they basically teach the same thing. that thing is Love in general. Sadly it seems to me that both religions have been perverted by men over time.

Froogle seems to have a pretty good grasp of Islam and I recommend you listen. It isn't fair to ridicule or judge a religion you have relatively no knowledge of. Who better to learn from than someone who practices?

sense materialises! trUly!

its a shame some people are too green to speak with respect of others, all this talk of fighting is a little too close to current, larger matters. that those same individuals insist they are different than their peers oblivious to there immature actions and elitist comments. if religion is to teach, then it seems to have failed many.

[ICE]

ok guy stop making it sound like we're arguing. we're not. no ones angry or anything. we are discussing the differences in islam and christianity and i dont appreciate everyone attacking me and/or the resident muslims.

as for what if i were raised some other religon it would be no different than now. nativity means nothing to someone seeking the truth. i would have still found christianity.

as for god cant die.. jesus's BODY died. not jesus/ and or god.

[SSaxdude]

I have heard the word from the true creator: the FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER! Become enlightened http://www.venganza.org/